Lucas Leiva - Wonderman.
- Thread starter Oncy
- Start date
- Latest activity Latest activity:
[quote author=Sunny link=topic=47619.msg1430635#msg1430635 date=1321980049]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=47619.msg1430633#msg1430633 date=1321979825]
I fucking LOVE a good Lucas thread.
[/quote]
You forgot to say "yay"
[/quote]SHUT IT HATER YOU DONT KNOW SHIT ABOUT FOOTB.........oh its you Sunny. We cool we cool.
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=47619.msg1430633#msg1430633 date=1321979825]
I fucking LOVE a good Lucas thread.
[/quote]
You forgot to say "yay"
[/quote]SHUT IT HATER YOU DONT KNOW SHIT ABOUT FOOTB.........oh its you Sunny. We cool we cool.
[quote author=Sunny link=topic=47619.msg1430624#msg1430624 date=1321979489]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=47619.msg1430622#msg1430622 date=1321979373]
totally agree, that's what we need to do. if lucas is the one to do this, fine, but it's something that needs to happen or we are going to continue to piss away points at home. this needs to happen now and it needs to happen with our current squad, it's pointless bemoaning the fact we don't have better attackers, we have to just get on with it.
[/quote]
You've just more and less said it's down to Lucas as a player neil, now you're saying it's about formation and tactics.
[/quote]
lucas was billed as 'the brazilian gerrard' so either the south amercians are crazy of lucas is curbing his attacking instincts (instructed to?). lucas pass completion stats are impressive but how many of those passes where made in the opposition half? how many of those passes were forwards rather than sideway, if you attempt to split the opposition with a through ball obviously you are bound to make more wayward passes. I am no purposely singling out lucas as I've said our problem is also piss poor finishing.
basically the bottom line of what I'm saying (be it individuals or tactics) with the level of attacking talent we have there is no why on this earth we can afford to have a player in the middle of the park who is going to offer nothing going forwards, our attackers aren't dominant enough to pull up that slack. you guys can agree with me (or not) but that's how I see it. if and when kenny releases the shackles off lucas and he finally shows that attacking attacking or simple makes lung bursting runs to add numbers to attack then no one will be more happy for me but something needs to change or we'll risk pissing away too many points at home.
* goes without saying our attackers also need to keep up their end of the bargin.
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=47619.msg1430622#msg1430622 date=1321979373]
totally agree, that's what we need to do. if lucas is the one to do this, fine, but it's something that needs to happen or we are going to continue to piss away points at home. this needs to happen now and it needs to happen with our current squad, it's pointless bemoaning the fact we don't have better attackers, we have to just get on with it.
[/quote]
You've just more and less said it's down to Lucas as a player neil, now you're saying it's about formation and tactics.
[/quote]
lucas was billed as 'the brazilian gerrard' so either the south amercians are crazy of lucas is curbing his attacking instincts (instructed to?). lucas pass completion stats are impressive but how many of those passes where made in the opposition half? how many of those passes were forwards rather than sideway, if you attempt to split the opposition with a through ball obviously you are bound to make more wayward passes. I am no purposely singling out lucas as I've said our problem is also piss poor finishing.
basically the bottom line of what I'm saying (be it individuals or tactics) with the level of attacking talent we have there is no why on this earth we can afford to have a player in the middle of the park who is going to offer nothing going forwards, our attackers aren't dominant enough to pull up that slack. you guys can agree with me (or not) but that's how I see it. if and when kenny releases the shackles off lucas and he finally shows that attacking attacking or simple makes lung bursting runs to add numbers to attack then no one will be more happy for me but something needs to change or we'll risk pissing away too many points at home.
* goes without saying our attackers also need to keep up their end of the bargin.
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=47619.msg1430639#msg1430639 date=1321980170]
[quote author=Sunny link=topic=47619.msg1430624#msg1430624 date=1321979489]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=47619.msg1430622#msg1430622 date=1321979373]
totally agree, that's what we need to do. if lucas is the one to do this, fine, but it's something that needs to happen or we are going to continue to piss away points at home. this needs to happen now and it needs to happen with our current squad, it's pointless bemoaning the fact we don't have better attackers, we have to just get on with it.
[/quote]
You've just more and less said it's down to Lucas as a player neil, now you're saying it's about formation and tactics.
[/quote]
lucas was billed as 'the brazilian gerrard' so either the south amercians are crazy of lucas is curbing his attacking instincts (instructed to?). lucas pass completion stats are impressive but how many of those passes where made in the opposition half? how many of those passes were forwards rather than sideway, if you attempt to split the opposition with a through ball obviously you are bound to make more wayward passes. I am no purposely singling out lucas as I've said our problem is also piss poor finishing.
basically the bottom line of what I'm saying (be it individuals or tactics) with the level of attacking talent we have there is no why on this earth we can afford to have a player in the middle of the park who is going to offer nothing going forwards, our attackers aren't dominant enough to pull up that slack. you guys can agree with me (or not) but that's how I see it. if and when kenny releases the shackles off lucas and he finally shows that attacking attacking or simple makes lung bursting runs to add numbers to attack then no one will be more happy for me but something needs to change or we'll risk pissing away too many points at home.
* goes without saying our attackers also need to keep up their end of the bargin.
[/quote]
So it's not about Lucas at all then it's about other players ergo why focus on Lucas ?
[quote author=Sunny link=topic=47619.msg1430624#msg1430624 date=1321979489]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=47619.msg1430622#msg1430622 date=1321979373]
totally agree, that's what we need to do. if lucas is the one to do this, fine, but it's something that needs to happen or we are going to continue to piss away points at home. this needs to happen now and it needs to happen with our current squad, it's pointless bemoaning the fact we don't have better attackers, we have to just get on with it.
[/quote]
You've just more and less said it's down to Lucas as a player neil, now you're saying it's about formation and tactics.
[/quote]
lucas was billed as 'the brazilian gerrard' so either the south amercians are crazy of lucas is curbing his attacking instincts (instructed to?). lucas pass completion stats are impressive but how many of those passes where made in the opposition half? how many of those passes were forwards rather than sideway, if you attempt to split the opposition with a through ball obviously you are bound to make more wayward passes. I am no purposely singling out lucas as I've said our problem is also piss poor finishing.
basically the bottom line of what I'm saying (be it individuals or tactics) with the level of attacking talent we have there is no why on this earth we can afford to have a player in the middle of the park who is going to offer nothing going forwards, our attackers aren't dominant enough to pull up that slack. you guys can agree with me (or not) but that's how I see it. if and when kenny releases the shackles off lucas and he finally shows that attacking attacking or simple makes lung bursting runs to add numbers to attack then no one will be more happy for me but something needs to change or we'll risk pissing away too many points at home.
* goes without saying our attackers also need to keep up their end of the bargin.
[/quote]
So it's not about Lucas at all then it's about other players ergo why focus on Lucas ?
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=47619.msg1430628#msg1430628 date=1321979592]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=47619.msg1430612#msg1430612 date=1321978513]
again, you're talking about what we need rather than what we have[/quote]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=47619.msg1430612#msg1430612 date=1321978513]
I want a holding midfielder with more to his game, an alonso, a parker, etc.
whatever.
[/quote]
Spiderneil. Doing it wrong since the internet began.
[/quote]
those players are example (like DUH!). how have I contridicted myself?
if henderson played in the middle of the park (something we have) then he would give more than an out an out holding midfielder.
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=47619.msg1430612#msg1430612 date=1321978513]
again, you're talking about what we need rather than what we have[/quote]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=47619.msg1430612#msg1430612 date=1321978513]
I want a holding midfielder with more to his game, an alonso, a parker, etc.
whatever.
[/quote]
Spiderneil. Doing it wrong since the internet began.
[/quote]
those players are example (like DUH!). how have I contridicted myself?
if henderson played in the middle of the park (something we have) then he would give more than an out an out holding midfielder.
There are a dozen passes in that clip i posted that are world class and cut the opponents team to fucking pieces.
The ball he played down the line to set Suarez free in our first or second game of the season was as good as it gets.
He can pass plenty well enough going forward and in the opponents half.
The ball he played down the line to set Suarez free in our first or second game of the season was as good as it gets.
He can pass plenty well enough going forward and in the opponents half.
[quote author=Sunny link=topic=47619.msg1430640#msg1430640 date=1321980271]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=47619.msg1430639#msg1430639 date=1321980170]
[quote author=Sunny link=topic=47619.msg1430624#msg1430624 date=1321979489]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=47619.msg1430622#msg1430622 date=1321979373]
totally agree, that's what we need to do. if lucas is the one to do this, fine, but it's something that needs to happen or we are going to continue to piss away points at home. this needs to happen now and it needs to happen with our current squad, it's pointless bemoaning the fact we don't have better attackers, we have to just get on with it.
[/quote]
You've just more and less said it's down to Lucas as a player neil, now you're saying it's about formation and tactics.
[/quote]
lucas was billed as 'the brazilian gerrard' so either the south amercians are crazy of lucas is curbing his attacking instincts (instructed to?). lucas pass completion stats are impressive but how many of those passes where made in the opposition half? how many of those passes were forwards rather than sideway, if you attempt to split the opposition with a through ball obviously you are bound to make more wayward passes. I am no purposely singling out lucas as I've said our problem is also piss poor finishing.
basically the bottom line of what I'm saying (be it individuals or tactics) with the level of attacking talent we have there is no why on this earth we can afford to have a player in the middle of the park who is going to offer nothing going forwards, our attackers aren't dominant enough to pull up that slack. you guys can agree with me (or not) but that's how I see it. if and when kenny releases the shackles off lucas and he finally shows that attacking attacking or simple makes lung bursting runs to add numbers to attack then no one will be more happy for me but something needs to change or we'll risk pissing away too many points at home.
* goes without saying our attackers also need to keep up their end of the bargin.
[/quote]
So it's not about Lucas at all then it's about other players ergo why focus on Lucas ?
[/quote]
this is a lucas thread and I'm talking about lucas, it goes without saying I think our attackers need to be more clinical.
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=47619.msg1430639#msg1430639 date=1321980170]
[quote author=Sunny link=topic=47619.msg1430624#msg1430624 date=1321979489]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=47619.msg1430622#msg1430622 date=1321979373]
totally agree, that's what we need to do. if lucas is the one to do this, fine, but it's something that needs to happen or we are going to continue to piss away points at home. this needs to happen now and it needs to happen with our current squad, it's pointless bemoaning the fact we don't have better attackers, we have to just get on with it.
[/quote]
You've just more and less said it's down to Lucas as a player neil, now you're saying it's about formation and tactics.
[/quote]
lucas was billed as 'the brazilian gerrard' so either the south amercians are crazy of lucas is curbing his attacking instincts (instructed to?). lucas pass completion stats are impressive but how many of those passes where made in the opposition half? how many of those passes were forwards rather than sideway, if you attempt to split the opposition with a through ball obviously you are bound to make more wayward passes. I am no purposely singling out lucas as I've said our problem is also piss poor finishing.
basically the bottom line of what I'm saying (be it individuals or tactics) with the level of attacking talent we have there is no why on this earth we can afford to have a player in the middle of the park who is going to offer nothing going forwards, our attackers aren't dominant enough to pull up that slack. you guys can agree with me (or not) but that's how I see it. if and when kenny releases the shackles off lucas and he finally shows that attacking attacking or simple makes lung bursting runs to add numbers to attack then no one will be more happy for me but something needs to change or we'll risk pissing away too many points at home.
* goes without saying our attackers also need to keep up their end of the bargin.
[/quote]
So it's not about Lucas at all then it's about other players ergo why focus on Lucas ?
[/quote]
this is a lucas thread and I'm talking about lucas, it goes without saying I think our attackers need to be more clinical.
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=47619.msg1430642#msg1430642 date=1321980321]
There are a dozen passes in that clip i posted that are world class and cut the opponents team to fucking pieces.
The ball he played down the line to set Suarez free in our first or second game of the season was as good as it gets.
He can pass plenty well enough going forward and in the opponents half.
[/quote]
lucas made a world class pass to gerrard v newcastle, that was one of the passes of the season. he needs to do that more often or make way for someone who will.
There are a dozen passes in that clip i posted that are world class and cut the opponents team to fucking pieces.
The ball he played down the line to set Suarez free in our first or second game of the season was as good as it gets.
He can pass plenty well enough going forward and in the opponents half.
[/quote]
lucas made a world class pass to gerrard v newcastle, that was one of the passes of the season. he needs to do that more often or make way for someone who will.
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=47619.msg1430641#msg1430641 date=1321980304]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=47619.msg1430628#msg1430628 date=1321979592]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=47619.msg1430612#msg1430612 date=1321978513]
again, you're talking about what we need rather than what we have[/quote]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=47619.msg1430612#msg1430612 date=1321978513]
I want a holding midfielder with more to his game, an alonso, a parker, etc.
whatever.
[/quote]
Spiderneil. Doing it wrong since the internet began.
[/quote]
those players are example (like DUH!). how have I contridicted myself?
if henderson played in the middle of the park (something we have) then he would give more than an out an out holding midfielder.
[/quote]WHAAAAAT!!? He said we need better attackers you said 'Im talking about what we HAVE not what we NEED' then you said 'I WANT a holding player with more to his game'
How is that NOT contradicting yourself. He ISNT allowed to say we are needing better alternatives but YOU are?
I think you are about to have one of your spectacular nonsensical meltdowns.
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=47619.msg1430628#msg1430628 date=1321979592]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=47619.msg1430612#msg1430612 date=1321978513]
again, you're talking about what we need rather than what we have[/quote]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=47619.msg1430612#msg1430612 date=1321978513]
I want a holding midfielder with more to his game, an alonso, a parker, etc.
whatever.
[/quote]
Spiderneil. Doing it wrong since the internet began.
[/quote]
those players are example (like DUH!). how have I contridicted myself?
if henderson played in the middle of the park (something we have) then he would give more than an out an out holding midfielder.
[/quote]WHAAAAAT!!? He said we need better attackers you said 'Im talking about what we HAVE not what we NEED' then you said 'I WANT a holding player with more to his game'
How is that NOT contradicting yourself. He ISNT allowed to say we are needing better alternatives but YOU are?
I think you are about to have one of your spectacular nonsensical meltdowns.
I feel a hiatus coming on.
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=47619.msg1430645#msg1430645 date=1321980458]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=47619.msg1430641#msg1430641 date=1321980304]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=47619.msg1430628#msg1430628 date=1321979592]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=47619.msg1430612#msg1430612 date=1321978513]
again, you're talking about what we need rather than what we have[/quote]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=47619.msg1430612#msg1430612 date=1321978513]
I want a holding midfielder with more to his game, an alonso, a parker, etc.
whatever.
[/quote]
Spiderneil. Doing it wrong since the internet began.
[/quote]
those players are example (like DUH!). how have I contridicted myself?
if henderson played in the middle of the park (something we have) then he would give more than an out an out holding midfielder.
[/quote]WHAAAAAT!!? He said we need better attackers you said 'Im talking about what we HAVE not what we NEED' then you said 'I WANT a holding player with more to his game'
How is that NOT contradicting yourself. He ISNT allowed to say we are needing better alternatives but YOU are?
I think you are about to have one of your spectacular nonsensical meltdowns.
[/quote]
no meltdowns from me this time.
my opinion is we need more through the middle of the park at home, I believe we have players right now that can provide that, whoever disagrees that's their prerogative.
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=47619.msg1430641#msg1430641 date=1321980304]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=47619.msg1430628#msg1430628 date=1321979592]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=47619.msg1430612#msg1430612 date=1321978513]
again, you're talking about what we need rather than what we have[/quote]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=47619.msg1430612#msg1430612 date=1321978513]
I want a holding midfielder with more to his game, an alonso, a parker, etc.
whatever.
[/quote]
Spiderneil. Doing it wrong since the internet began.
[/quote]
those players are example (like DUH!). how have I contridicted myself?
if henderson played in the middle of the park (something we have) then he would give more than an out an out holding midfielder.
[/quote]WHAAAAAT!!? He said we need better attackers you said 'Im talking about what we HAVE not what we NEED' then you said 'I WANT a holding player with more to his game'
How is that NOT contradicting yourself. He ISNT allowed to say we are needing better alternatives but YOU are?
I think you are about to have one of your spectacular nonsensical meltdowns.
[/quote]
no meltdowns from me this time.
my opinion is we need more through the middle of the park at home, I believe we have players right now that can provide that, whoever disagrees that's their prerogative.
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=47619.msg1430644#msg1430644 date=1321980446]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=47619.msg1430642#msg1430642 date=1321980321]
There are a dozen passes in that clip i posted that are world class and cut the opponents team to fucking pieces.
The ball he played down the line to set Suarez free in our first or second game of the season was as good as it gets.
He can pass plenty well enough going forward and in the opponents half.
[/quote]
lucas made a world class pass to gerrard v newcastle, that was one of the passes of the season. he needs to do that more often or make way for someone who will.
[/quote]He makes plenty PLENTY of great passes.
So summing up your thoughts on Lucas. You admit that he is one of the best tacklers and ball winning midfielders in the league? Well you should because he is. But that isnt enough for you. So you admit that he is one of the best passers in the league? Well you should, because he is. But that isnt enough for you. Not enough that he does his job in the team superbly. Better than all of his peers. You want him to do more going forward too. To ping 60 yard worldy balls every five minutes.
Let me tell you Neil, if he did that you would be saying that isnt enough. You'd want him on the end of the fuckers too.
Let me tell you this Neil. If the five attackers in our team did their job HALF as well HALF of the time as the five defenders do. We would be top of the league.
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=47619.msg1430642#msg1430642 date=1321980321]
There are a dozen passes in that clip i posted that are world class and cut the opponents team to fucking pieces.
The ball he played down the line to set Suarez free in our first or second game of the season was as good as it gets.
He can pass plenty well enough going forward and in the opponents half.
[/quote]
lucas made a world class pass to gerrard v newcastle, that was one of the passes of the season. he needs to do that more often or make way for someone who will.
[/quote]He makes plenty PLENTY of great passes.
So summing up your thoughts on Lucas. You admit that he is one of the best tacklers and ball winning midfielders in the league? Well you should because he is. But that isnt enough for you. So you admit that he is one of the best passers in the league? Well you should, because he is. But that isnt enough for you. Not enough that he does his job in the team superbly. Better than all of his peers. You want him to do more going forward too. To ping 60 yard worldy balls every five minutes.
Let me tell you Neil, if he did that you would be saying that isnt enough. You'd want him on the end of the fuckers too.
Let me tell you this Neil. If the five attackers in our team did their job HALF as well HALF of the time as the five defenders do. We would be top of the league.
R
RedZeppelin
Guest
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=47619.msg1430632#msg1430632 date=1321979798]
[quote author=RedZeppelin link=topic=47619.msg1430630#msg1430630 date=1321979683]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=47619.msg1430579#msg1430579 date=1321977033]
Those stats are fucking outrageous btw and make the haters look like fucking mongs.
Almost every stat hes near the top of not just for accuracy but for volumes as well.
Amazing to see it broken down like that.
Im sure some (looks up) will complain he hasnt scored enough or made enough one handed saves or some shit, the fact is he's fucking epic.
[/quote]
Calm down , he's not that good .
And if you can't see or admit that he's been shite many , many times in a liverpool shirt then you're as bad as the over the top "haters" . He is playing well in lots of games for us now but he's still not top class .
So do you really think he's good enough to play a major part in a team that will win us the league and other major honours ?
[/quote]Eh? I said in my first two posts ive given him shit in the past. Ive said i think he was poor a lot of the time. Im not blind to what he was. But im certainly not one of the blind to what he now is.
And in answer to your question. Yes. Of course.
[/quote]
So we agree he's been shite many times in the past but that more often than not he's putting in decent performances now , especially in the 'bigger' games . The question now is if he has enough to play in a top , top team , where we want to be . I'm not so sure but I guess he'll be around for a while so we'll see .
Anyway we've bigger worries , like the waste of £70m on 3 average players .
[quote author=RedZeppelin link=topic=47619.msg1430630#msg1430630 date=1321979683]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=47619.msg1430579#msg1430579 date=1321977033]
Those stats are fucking outrageous btw and make the haters look like fucking mongs.
Almost every stat hes near the top of not just for accuracy but for volumes as well.
Amazing to see it broken down like that.
Im sure some (looks up) will complain he hasnt scored enough or made enough one handed saves or some shit, the fact is he's fucking epic.
[/quote]
Calm down , he's not that good .
And if you can't see or admit that he's been shite many , many times in a liverpool shirt then you're as bad as the over the top "haters" . He is playing well in lots of games for us now but he's still not top class .
So do you really think he's good enough to play a major part in a team that will win us the league and other major honours ?
[/quote]Eh? I said in my first two posts ive given him shit in the past. Ive said i think he was poor a lot of the time. Im not blind to what he was. But im certainly not one of the blind to what he now is.
And in answer to your question. Yes. Of course.
[/quote]
So we agree he's been shite many times in the past but that more often than not he's putting in decent performances now , especially in the 'bigger' games . The question now is if he has enough to play in a top , top team , where we want to be . I'm not so sure but I guess he'll be around for a while so we'll see .
Anyway we've bigger worries , like the waste of £70m on 3 average players .
[quote author=RedZeppelin link=topic=47619.msg1430652#msg1430652 date=1321980940]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=47619.msg1430632#msg1430632 date=1321979798]
[quote author=RedZeppelin link=topic=47619.msg1430630#msg1430630 date=1321979683]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=47619.msg1430579#msg1430579 date=1321977033]
Those stats are fucking outrageous btw and make the haters look like fucking mongs.
Almost every stat hes near the top of not just for accuracy but for volumes as well.
Amazing to see it broken down like that.
Im sure some (looks up) will complain he hasnt scored enough or made enough one handed saves or some shit, the fact is he's fucking epic.
[/quote]
Calm down , he's not that good .
And if you can't see or admit that he's been shite many , many times in a liverpool shirt then you're as bad as the over the top "haters" . He is playing well in lots of games for us now but he's still not top class .
So do you really think he's good enough to play a major part in a team that will win us the league and other major honours ?
[/quote]Eh? I said in my first two posts ive given him shit in the past. Ive said i think he was poor a lot of the time. Im not blind to what he was. But im certainly not one of the blind to what he now is.
And in answer to your question. Yes. Of course.
[/quote]
So we agree he's been shite many times in the past but that more often than not he's putting in decent performances now , especially in the 'bigger' games . The question now is if he has enough to play in a top , top team , where we want to be . I'm not so sure but I guess he'll be around for a while so we'll see .
Anyway we've bigger worries , like the waste of £70m on 3 average players .
[/quote]Quite.
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=47619.msg1430632#msg1430632 date=1321979798]
[quote author=RedZeppelin link=topic=47619.msg1430630#msg1430630 date=1321979683]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=47619.msg1430579#msg1430579 date=1321977033]
Those stats are fucking outrageous btw and make the haters look like fucking mongs.
Almost every stat hes near the top of not just for accuracy but for volumes as well.
Amazing to see it broken down like that.
Im sure some (looks up) will complain he hasnt scored enough or made enough one handed saves or some shit, the fact is he's fucking epic.
[/quote]
Calm down , he's not that good .
And if you can't see or admit that he's been shite many , many times in a liverpool shirt then you're as bad as the over the top "haters" . He is playing well in lots of games for us now but he's still not top class .
So do you really think he's good enough to play a major part in a team that will win us the league and other major honours ?
[/quote]Eh? I said in my first two posts ive given him shit in the past. Ive said i think he was poor a lot of the time. Im not blind to what he was. But im certainly not one of the blind to what he now is.
And in answer to your question. Yes. Of course.
[/quote]
So we agree he's been shite many times in the past but that more often than not he's putting in decent performances now , especially in the 'bigger' games . The question now is if he has enough to play in a top , top team , where we want to be . I'm not so sure but I guess he'll be around for a while so we'll see .
Anyway we've bigger worries , like the waste of £70m on 3 average players .
[/quote]Quite.
[quote author=Mystic link=topic=47619.msg1430653#msg1430653 date=1321981057]
This is the time for Lucas, he's a good player, this season can define him as one of the leagues best. He just needs a run of 10 or so games playing at top form performing the defense cutting passing's you're talking about!
[/quote]Youre alright you kid.
This is the time for Lucas, he's a good player, this season can define him as one of the leagues best. He just needs a run of 10 or so games playing at top form performing the defense cutting passing's you're talking about!
[/quote]Youre alright you kid.
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=47619.msg1430651#msg1430651 date=1321980850]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=47619.msg1430644#msg1430644 date=1321980446]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=47619.msg1430642#msg1430642 date=1321980321]
There are a dozen passes in that clip i posted that are world class and cut the opponents team to fucking pieces.
The ball he played down the line to set Suarez free in our first or second game of the season was as good as it gets.
He can pass plenty well enough going forward and in the opponents half.
[/quote]
lucas made a world class pass to gerrard v newcastle, that was one of the passes of the season. he needs to do that more often or make way for someone who will.
[/quote]He makes plenty PLENTY of great passes.
So summing up your thoughts on Lucas. You admit that he is one of the best tacklers and ball winning midfielders in the league? Well you should because he is. But that isnt enough for you. So you admit that he is one of the best passers in the league? Well you should, because he is. But that isnt enough for you. Not enough that he does his job in the team superbly. Better than all of his peers. You want him to do more going forward too. To ping 60 yard worldy balls every five minutes.
Let me tell you Neil, if he did that you would be saying that isnt enough. You'd want him on the end of the fuckers too.
Let me tell you this Neil. If the five attackers in our team did their job HALF as well HALF of the time as the five defenders do. We would be top of the league.
[/quote]
our attackers aren't doing their job because we aren't scoring the killer second goal (the weekend aside) but our defenders (and lucas is a part of that seeing as he is an out and out holding midfielder) aren't doing their job either because we are giving away leads. where were we be if we could shut out the game after taking the lead?
as a TEAM we need to do one thing or the other, either go into our shell after taking the lead to shut out the game or press hard in numbers for the second goal. if we are going to use the former tactic then absolutely U would want lucas to be a part of that as he is the best holding midfielder on our books (I haven't ever argued that) personally I would rather we went with the latter tactic as I believe we have the players to acheive that.
this is isn't a personal attack of lucas I just think different personnel at home would secure us more points. for the record lucas is one of the first names on my team sheet for the game v man city, a game we absolutely need someone who does what lucas does.
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=47619.msg1430644#msg1430644 date=1321980446]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=47619.msg1430642#msg1430642 date=1321980321]
There are a dozen passes in that clip i posted that are world class and cut the opponents team to fucking pieces.
The ball he played down the line to set Suarez free in our first or second game of the season was as good as it gets.
He can pass plenty well enough going forward and in the opponents half.
[/quote]
lucas made a world class pass to gerrard v newcastle, that was one of the passes of the season. he needs to do that more often or make way for someone who will.
[/quote]He makes plenty PLENTY of great passes.
So summing up your thoughts on Lucas. You admit that he is one of the best tacklers and ball winning midfielders in the league? Well you should because he is. But that isnt enough for you. So you admit that he is one of the best passers in the league? Well you should, because he is. But that isnt enough for you. Not enough that he does his job in the team superbly. Better than all of his peers. You want him to do more going forward too. To ping 60 yard worldy balls every five minutes.
Let me tell you Neil, if he did that you would be saying that isnt enough. You'd want him on the end of the fuckers too.
Let me tell you this Neil. If the five attackers in our team did their job HALF as well HALF of the time as the five defenders do. We would be top of the league.
[/quote]
our attackers aren't doing their job because we aren't scoring the killer second goal (the weekend aside) but our defenders (and lucas is a part of that seeing as he is an out and out holding midfielder) aren't doing their job either because we are giving away leads. where were we be if we could shut out the game after taking the lead?
as a TEAM we need to do one thing or the other, either go into our shell after taking the lead to shut out the game or press hard in numbers for the second goal. if we are going to use the former tactic then absolutely U would want lucas to be a part of that as he is the best holding midfielder on our books (I haven't ever argued that) personally I would rather we went with the latter tactic as I believe we have the players to acheive that.
this is isn't a personal attack of lucas I just think different personnel at home would secure us more points. for the record lucas is one of the first names on my team sheet for the game v man city, a game we absolutely need someone who does what lucas does.
[quote author=RedZeppelin link=topic=47619.msg1430652#msg1430652 date=1321980940]
Anyway we've bigger worries , like the waste of £70m on 3 average players .
[/quote]
it is what it is and we have to deal with it. we have those players now and we have to make the most of them.
Anyway we've bigger worries , like the waste of £70m on 3 average players .
[/quote]
it is what it is and we have to deal with it. we have those players now and we have to make the most of them.
If I take one of Binnys marvellous comparison graphics :
Lucas compares favourably with most of these defensive/holding mids both defensively and offensively but let's not lose sight of the fact he is a defensive midfielder. People bemoan his lack of attacking prowess yet he has created more than Scott Parker, viewed as a more versatile and attacking mid by some and playing in an in from team with good attacking talent. Weird. Some say he doesn't score enough. Compare his goal record with De Jong who many think is a much better player. He must be, he plays for Man City. Some say he can't pass and he only passes sideways - well that's not really true either. Some say he loses possession all the time when he really doesn't.
Those are just a few examples of where statistical evidence contradicts peoples view of him. They are just stats though and of course they do not tell the full story. There's better out there I know but they're probably fewer than people think. He used to do my swede in years ago but eventually I could see him improving to eventually becoming an important part of the team and squad and, when that happens and you do not let pride or stubborness cloud your judgement, it's quite OK to admit your wrong even - even partly. That doesn't always fit well with some posters though who look at their opinions of players as some kind of internet pissing contest. My irks with people here were always around the constant slating he has received despite him much better than he's given credit for. He's not perfect, no. He has bad games, yes. Show me one player who doesn't. He's much better than the label he carries though due to some folks being unable to sway on their view of him and given the lad has got his head down despite the pathetic name calling and abuse he's had to put up with from supporters on his own club I think it's pretty admirable meself.
Lucas compares favourably with most of these defensive/holding mids both defensively and offensively but let's not lose sight of the fact he is a defensive midfielder. People bemoan his lack of attacking prowess yet he has created more than Scott Parker, viewed as a more versatile and attacking mid by some and playing in an in from team with good attacking talent. Weird. Some say he doesn't score enough. Compare his goal record with De Jong who many think is a much better player. He must be, he plays for Man City. Some say he can't pass and he only passes sideways - well that's not really true either. Some say he loses possession all the time when he really doesn't.
Those are just a few examples of where statistical evidence contradicts peoples view of him. They are just stats though and of course they do not tell the full story. There's better out there I know but they're probably fewer than people think. He used to do my swede in years ago but eventually I could see him improving to eventually becoming an important part of the team and squad and, when that happens and you do not let pride or stubborness cloud your judgement, it's quite OK to admit your wrong even - even partly. That doesn't always fit well with some posters though who look at their opinions of players as some kind of internet pissing contest. My irks with people here were always around the constant slating he has received despite him much better than he's given credit for. He's not perfect, no. He has bad games, yes. Show me one player who doesn't. He's much better than the label he carries though due to some folks being unable to sway on their view of him and given the lad has got his head down despite the pathetic name calling and abuse he's had to put up with from supporters on his own club I think it's pretty admirable meself.
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=47619.msg1430643#msg1430643 date=1321980384]
this is a lucas thread and I'm talking about lucas, it goes without saying I think our attackers need to be more clinical.
[/quote]
Sorry, I meant the constant focus on Lucas in general neil .
this is a lucas thread and I'm talking about lucas, it goes without saying I think our attackers need to be more clinical.
[/quote]
Sorry, I meant the constant focus on Lucas in general neil .
Our defenders who (I think, I may be wrong) have conceded the least goals in the league "aren't doing their job"?
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=47619.msg1430650#msg1430650 date=1321980712]
no meltdowns from me this time.
my opinion is we need more through the middle of the park at home, I believe we have players right now that can provide that, whoever disagrees that's their prerogative.
[/quote]
Who are those players Neil ?
no meltdowns from me this time.
my opinion is we need more through the middle of the park at home, I believe we have players right now that can provide that, whoever disagrees that's their prerogative.
[/quote]
Who are those players Neil ?
I'm questioning lucas' ability to shield the defense. this isn't me saying lucas isn't doing his job, I'm saying to offset our attackers we need through the middle of the park.
two train of thought;
1. lucas is doing his job, it's our attackers that are shit.
2. our attackers aren't the best so they need more support through the middle of the park.
I'm making the second point. it's not about lucas ability as a holding midfielder because unlike the likes of bren I actually think lucas is pretty darn competent sheilding the defense and the best holding midfielder on our book and I haven't said otherwise.
two train of thought;
1. lucas is doing his job, it's our attackers that are shit.
2. our attackers aren't the best so they need more support through the middle of the park.
I'm making the second point. it's not about lucas ability as a holding midfielder because unlike the likes of bren I actually think lucas is pretty darn competent sheilding the defense and the best holding midfielder on our book and I haven't said otherwise.
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=47619.msg1430657#msg1430657 date=1321981290]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=47619.msg1430651#msg1430651 date=1321980850]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=47619.msg1430644#msg1430644 date=1321980446]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=47619.msg1430642#msg1430642 date=1321980321]
There are a dozen passes in that clip i posted that are world class and cut the opponents team to fucking pieces.
The ball he played down the line to set Suarez free in our first or second game of the season was as good as it gets.
He can pass plenty well enough going forward and in the opponents half.
[/quote]
lucas made a world class pass to gerrard v newcastle, that was one of the passes of the season. he needs to do that more often or make way for someone who will.
[/quote]He makes plenty PLENTY of great passes.
So summing up your thoughts on Lucas. You admit that he is one of the best tacklers and ball winning midfielders in the league? Well you should because he is. But that isnt enough for you. So you admit that he is one of the best passers in the league? Well you should, because he is. But that isnt enough for you. Not enough that he does his job in the team superbly. Better than all of his peers. You want him to do more going forward too. To ping 60 yard worldy balls every five minutes.
Let me tell you Neil, if he did that you would be saying that isnt enough. You'd want him on the end of the fuckers too.
Let me tell you this Neil. If the five attackers in our team did their job HALF as well HALF of the time as the five defenders do. We would be top of the league.
[/quote]
but our defenders (and lucas is a part of that seeing as he is an out and out holding midfielder) aren't doing their job either because we are giving away leads. where were we be if we could shut out the game after taking the lead?
[/quote]That simply isnt true. You are making up stats to suit your 'agenda' which is in no way a suprise to me.
Vs Stoke we didnt score. So did not conceed a lead
Vs Spurs we didnt score. So did not conceed a lead
Vs Swansea we didnt score. So did not conceed a lead
Vs United we conceeded when we were leading AFTER Lucas was substituted for Henderwank.
Vs Norwich we conceeded when we were leading and Lucas was SUSPENDED for that game.
In fact the ONLY game we have been leading and conceeded in when Lucas was playing was on the opening day of the season.
What!!? Say summin!!
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=47619.msg1430651#msg1430651 date=1321980850]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=47619.msg1430644#msg1430644 date=1321980446]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=47619.msg1430642#msg1430642 date=1321980321]
There are a dozen passes in that clip i posted that are world class and cut the opponents team to fucking pieces.
The ball he played down the line to set Suarez free in our first or second game of the season was as good as it gets.
He can pass plenty well enough going forward and in the opponents half.
[/quote]
lucas made a world class pass to gerrard v newcastle, that was one of the passes of the season. he needs to do that more often or make way for someone who will.
[/quote]He makes plenty PLENTY of great passes.
So summing up your thoughts on Lucas. You admit that he is one of the best tacklers and ball winning midfielders in the league? Well you should because he is. But that isnt enough for you. So you admit that he is one of the best passers in the league? Well you should, because he is. But that isnt enough for you. Not enough that he does his job in the team superbly. Better than all of his peers. You want him to do more going forward too. To ping 60 yard worldy balls every five minutes.
Let me tell you Neil, if he did that you would be saying that isnt enough. You'd want him on the end of the fuckers too.
Let me tell you this Neil. If the five attackers in our team did their job HALF as well HALF of the time as the five defenders do. We would be top of the league.
[/quote]
but our defenders (and lucas is a part of that seeing as he is an out and out holding midfielder) aren't doing their job either because we are giving away leads. where were we be if we could shut out the game after taking the lead?
[/quote]That simply isnt true. You are making up stats to suit your 'agenda' which is in no way a suprise to me.
Vs Stoke we didnt score. So did not conceed a lead
Vs Spurs we didnt score. So did not conceed a lead
Vs Swansea we didnt score. So did not conceed a lead
Vs United we conceeded when we were leading AFTER Lucas was substituted for Henderwank.
Vs Norwich we conceeded when we were leading and Lucas was SUSPENDED for that game.
In fact the ONLY game we have been leading and conceeded in when Lucas was playing was on the opening day of the season.
What!!? Say summin!!
Attacking full backs
Wingers with pace and goals
Attacking through the middle of the park
Quite a team we'll have eventually 😉
Wingers with pace and goals
Attacking through the middle of the park
Quite a team we'll have eventually 😉
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=47619.msg1430431#msg1430431 date=1321967191]
@24 - Alonso was making his debut for us.
@24 - Roy Keane had only played ONE season at United.
@24 - Claude Makalele was at Marseille, then he went to Vigo before going to Madrid at 27.
@24 - Frank Lampard played his FIRST season at Chelsea
@24 - Nigel De Jong was at hamburg
@24 - Scott Parker was at Charlton
@24 - Zidane hadnt left Marseille
@24 - Redondo hadnt left Tenerife
[/quote]
I haven't got time to break down those individual examples to explain why I think they're misleading (and in some instances retarded), but can you tell me which one of those players you think Lucas will turn out like ?
@24 - Alonso was making his debut for us.
@24 - Roy Keane had only played ONE season at United.
@24 - Claude Makalele was at Marseille, then he went to Vigo before going to Madrid at 27.
@24 - Frank Lampard played his FIRST season at Chelsea
@24 - Nigel De Jong was at hamburg
@24 - Scott Parker was at Charlton
@24 - Zidane hadnt left Marseille
@24 - Redondo hadnt left Tenerife
[/quote]
I haven't got time to break down those individual examples to explain why I think they're misleading (and in some instances retarded), but can you tell me which one of those players you think Lucas will turn out like ?
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=47619.msg1430672#msg1430672 date=1321982057]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=47619.msg1430431#msg1430431 date=1321967191]
@24 - Alonso was making his debut for us.
@24 - Roy Keane had only played ONE season at United.
@24 - Claude Makalele was at Marseille, then he went to Vigo before going to Madrid at 27.
@24 - Frank Lampard played his FIRST season at Chelsea
@24 - Nigel De Jong was at hamburg
@24 - Scott Parker was at Charlton
@24 - Zidane hadnt left Marseille
@24 - Redondo hadnt left Tenerife
[/quote]
I haven't got time to break down those individual examples to explain why I think they're misleading (and in some instances retarded), but can you tell me which one of those players you think Lucas will turn out like ?
[/quote]None of them. Lucas is unique. Id guess he'd be closest to Parker in the long run, maybe Redondo.
And im glad you dont have time to do that, it would make me think you were a bit of a thick cunt.
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=47619.msg1430431#msg1430431 date=1321967191]
@24 - Alonso was making his debut for us.
@24 - Roy Keane had only played ONE season at United.
@24 - Claude Makalele was at Marseille, then he went to Vigo before going to Madrid at 27.
@24 - Frank Lampard played his FIRST season at Chelsea
@24 - Nigel De Jong was at hamburg
@24 - Scott Parker was at Charlton
@24 - Zidane hadnt left Marseille
@24 - Redondo hadnt left Tenerife
[/quote]
I haven't got time to break down those individual examples to explain why I think they're misleading (and in some instances retarded), but can you tell me which one of those players you think Lucas will turn out like ?
[/quote]None of them. Lucas is unique. Id guess he'd be closest to Parker in the long run, maybe Redondo.
And im glad you dont have time to do that, it would make me think you were a bit of a thick cunt.
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=47619.msg1430669#msg1430669 date=1321981946]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=47619.msg1430657#msg1430657 date=1321981290]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=47619.msg1430651#msg1430651 date=1321980850]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=47619.msg1430644#msg1430644 date=1321980446]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=47619.msg1430642#msg1430642 date=1321980321]
There are a dozen passes in that clip i posted that are world class and cut the opponents team to fucking pieces.
The ball he played down the line to set Suarez free in our first or second game of the season was as good as it gets.
He can pass plenty well enough going forward and in the opponents half.
[/quote]
lucas made a world class pass to gerrard v newcastle, that was one of the passes of the season. he needs to do that more often or make way for someone who will.
[/quote]He makes plenty PLENTY of great passes.
So summing up your thoughts on Lucas. You admit that he is one of the best tacklers and ball winning midfielders in the league? Well you should because he is. But that isnt enough for you. So you admit that he is one of the best passers in the league? Well you should, because he is. But that isnt enough for you. Not enough that he does his job in the team superbly. Better than all of his peers. You want him to do more going forward too. To ping 60 yard worldy balls every five minutes.
Let me tell you Neil, if he did that you would be saying that isnt enough. You'd want him on the end of the fuckers too.
Let me tell you this Neil. If the five attackers in our team did their job HALF as well HALF of the time as the five defenders do. We would be top of the league.
[/quote]
but our defenders (and lucas is a part of that seeing as he is an out and out holding midfielder) aren't doing their job either because we are giving away leads. where were we be if we could shut out the game after taking the lead?
[/quote]That simply isnt true. You are making up stats to suit your 'agenda' which is in no way a suprise to me.
Vs Stoke we didnt score. So did not conceed a lead
Vs Spurs we didnt score. So did not conceed a lead
Vs Swansea we didnt score. So did not conceed a lead
Vs United we conceeded when we were leading AFTER Lucas was substituted for Henderwank.
Vs Norwich we conceeded when we were leading and Lucas was SUSPENDED for that game.
In fact the ONLY game we have been leading and conceeded in when Lucas was playing was on the opening day of the season.
What!!? Say summin!!
[/quote]
s'land - took the lead and then gave away the lead - 2 points
norwich - took the lead and then gave away the lead - 2 points
manu - took the lead and then gave away the lead - 2 points
that's 6 points making us top 3
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=47619.msg1430657#msg1430657 date=1321981290]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=47619.msg1430651#msg1430651 date=1321980850]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=47619.msg1430644#msg1430644 date=1321980446]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=47619.msg1430642#msg1430642 date=1321980321]
There are a dozen passes in that clip i posted that are world class and cut the opponents team to fucking pieces.
The ball he played down the line to set Suarez free in our first or second game of the season was as good as it gets.
He can pass plenty well enough going forward and in the opponents half.
[/quote]
lucas made a world class pass to gerrard v newcastle, that was one of the passes of the season. he needs to do that more often or make way for someone who will.
[/quote]He makes plenty PLENTY of great passes.
So summing up your thoughts on Lucas. You admit that he is one of the best tacklers and ball winning midfielders in the league? Well you should because he is. But that isnt enough for you. So you admit that he is one of the best passers in the league? Well you should, because he is. But that isnt enough for you. Not enough that he does his job in the team superbly. Better than all of his peers. You want him to do more going forward too. To ping 60 yard worldy balls every five minutes.
Let me tell you Neil, if he did that you would be saying that isnt enough. You'd want him on the end of the fuckers too.
Let me tell you this Neil. If the five attackers in our team did their job HALF as well HALF of the time as the five defenders do. We would be top of the league.
[/quote]
but our defenders (and lucas is a part of that seeing as he is an out and out holding midfielder) aren't doing their job either because we are giving away leads. where were we be if we could shut out the game after taking the lead?
[/quote]That simply isnt true. You are making up stats to suit your 'agenda' which is in no way a suprise to me.
Vs Stoke we didnt score. So did not conceed a lead
Vs Spurs we didnt score. So did not conceed a lead
Vs Swansea we didnt score. So did not conceed a lead
Vs United we conceeded when we were leading AFTER Lucas was substituted for Henderwank.
Vs Norwich we conceeded when we were leading and Lucas was SUSPENDED for that game.
In fact the ONLY game we have been leading and conceeded in when Lucas was playing was on the opening day of the season.
What!!? Say summin!!
[/quote]
s'land - took the lead and then gave away the lead - 2 points
norwich - took the lead and then gave away the lead - 2 points
manu - took the lead and then gave away the lead - 2 points
that's 6 points making us top 3
R
RedZeppelin
Guest
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=47619.msg1430658#msg1430658 date=1321981362]
[quote author=RedZeppelin link=topic=47619.msg1430652#msg1430652 date=1321980940]
Anyway we've bigger worries , like the waste of £70m on 3 average players .
[/quote]
it is what it is and we have to deal with it. we have those players now and we have to make the most of them.
[/quote]
Yeah but there has to be a balance between trying to make it work and realising we made a mistake if it is not . The prices put massive pressure on everyone , the players to prove they are good enough and the management to justify they were worth it and not a waste of money . But if it's not working and the players are off form then we need go another route . Kenny did against Chelsea and it paid off . But I'm not sure he'll be able to leave them out for the large part of the season , the pressure to play them will be immense and i fear it will really upset our season .
But that's all for another thread , Rosco is watching !!
[quote author=RedZeppelin link=topic=47619.msg1430652#msg1430652 date=1321980940]
Anyway we've bigger worries , like the waste of £70m on 3 average players .
[/quote]
it is what it is and we have to deal with it. we have those players now and we have to make the most of them.
[/quote]
Yeah but there has to be a balance between trying to make it work and realising we made a mistake if it is not . The prices put massive pressure on everyone , the players to prove they are good enough and the management to justify they were worth it and not a waste of money . But if it's not working and the players are off form then we need go another route . Kenny did against Chelsea and it paid off . But I'm not sure he'll be able to leave them out for the large part of the season , the pressure to play them will be immense and i fear it will really upset our season .
But that's all for another thread , Rosco is watching !!
Similar threads
