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Lucas Leiva - Wonderman.

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[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=47619.msg1430575#msg1430575 date=1321976663]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=47619.msg1430568#msg1430568 date=1321975861]
the chelsea game was made for him, however games at home which is all about breaking down the opposition (who will hardly venture into our half) he is a waste of space that could be taken by another attacker.
[/quote]Fuck sake youre a cabbage.
[/quote]

whatever.
 
Those stats are fucking outrageous btw and make the haters look like fucking mongs.
Almost every stat hes near the top of not just for accuracy but for volumes as well.
Amazing to see it broken down like that.

Im sure some (looks up) will complain he hasnt scored enough or made enough one handed saves or some shit, the fact is he's fucking epic.
 
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=47619.msg1430577#msg1430577 date=1321976827]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=47619.msg1430575#msg1430575 date=1321976663]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=47619.msg1430568#msg1430568 date=1321975861]
the chelsea game was made for him, however games at home which is all about breaking down the opposition (who will hardly venture into our half) he is a waste of space that could be taken by another attacker.
[/quote]Fuck sake youre a cabbage.
[/quote]

whatever.
[/quote]Yeah whatever the fuck whatever.
 
[quote author=Frogfish link=topic=47619.msg1430572#msg1430572 date=1321976151]
[quote author=Halmeister link=topic=47619.msg1430549#msg1430549 date=1321974332]
I don't know why but I've pure brainfarted all over the place and can't work that out.

What's more depressing than my brain not working is that I'm actually older now than when Alonso joined us.
[/quote]

Are you sure ? 😉
[/quote]

Don't confuse me! I'm already having a rough day as it is. What with brainfarting everywhere and signing up as Andy Carroll's personal defender.
 
[quote author=Gerry_A_Trick link=topic=47619.msg1430571#msg1430571 date=1321976030]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=47619.msg1430568#msg1430568 date=1321975861]
the chelsea game was made for him, however games at home which is all about breaking down the opposition (who will hardly venture into our half) he is a waste of space that could be taken by another attacker.
[/quote]

Lots of attacking players play with a DM who doesn't add as much offensively as others, and they still manage to break down teams. If our attacking players were better, there would be no issue.

You seem to be of the opinion that having more attacking players means we will score more goals, and that's not always the case. But, we would score more goals if we had better attacking players, better than the likes of Downing, Henderson etc.
[/quote]

again, you're talking about what we need rather than what we have. right now for home games we can pick personnel that is more attacking in it's intent without compromising our defensive shape. I'm not talking about away games where the away team is expected to come at us like a train I'm talking about home games where the opposition will sit deep, conceed possession and ask us to break them down. we need more players on the pitch that can pick the lock of these stubborn defenses. this has been a problem for fucking YEARS.

so lucas can glean all the praise for a good performance away to chelsea but he is not what we need for home games, he's almost a pointless player at home.
 
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=47619.msg1430575#msg1430575 date=1321976663]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=47619.msg1430568#msg1430568 date=1321975861]
the chelsea game was made for him, however games at home which is all about breaking down the opposition (who will hardly venture into our half) he is a waste of space that could be taken by another attacker.
[/quote]Fuck sake youre a cabbage.
[/quote]

*spits out drink*
 
and for the hundredth time, it's not about lucas as an individual as I think he goes about his business competently enough it's about picking the right side to give you more of a chance of winning 3 points. so if the opposition are going to sit off him what is the fucking point of having him in the side (at home).
 
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=47619.msg1430583#msg1430583 date=1321977152]
[quote author=Gerry_A_Trick link=topic=47619.msg1430571#msg1430571 date=1321976030]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=47619.msg1430568#msg1430568 date=1321975861]
the chelsea game was made for him, however games at home which is all about breaking down the opposition (who will hardly venture into our half) he is a waste of space that could be taken by another attacker.
[/quote]

Lots of attacking players play with a DM who doesn't add as much offensively as others, and they still manage to break down teams. If our attacking players were better, there would be no issue.

You seem to be of the opinion that having more attacking players means we will score more goals, and that's not always the case. But, we would score more goals if we had better attacking players, better than the likes of Downing, Henderson etc.
[/quote]

again, you're talking about what we need rather than what we have. right now for home games we can pick personnel that is more attacking in it's intent without compromising our defensive shape. I'm not talking about away games where the away team is expected to come at us like a train I'm talking about home games where the opposition will sit deep, conceed possession and ask us to break them down. we need more players on the pitch that can pick the lock of these stubborn defenses. this has been a problem for fucking YEARS.

so lucas can glean all the praise for a good performance away to chelsea but he is not what we need for home games, he's almost a pointless player at home.
[/quote]

Just because there are teams that sit back, doesn't mean we go running around like school kids screaming "attack". You've got a very simlistic view on things. Home games attack, away games defend. It's not like that in real life, and anyway the stats prove that he's not just important in big games, he's important in every game.

And just because we don't have attackers that are worth their salt, doesn't mean you should be dropping one of our most consistent and effective players to cover up for their inefficiencies.
 
[quote author=Mamma Mia link=topic=47619.msg1430570#msg1430570 date=1321975942]
He's never been as good as RAWK makes out, and he's never been as bad as SCM says he is.
We established this years ago.


Can't we all just agree now that he is a good player with a great attitude, and support him as such?


Don't we have an Andy Carroll to gang up on now?
[/quote]

He'd probably still batter us
 
That's a pretty sweeping statement neil around the lack of need for a DM at home. I see where you're coming from but it's a bit naive as line-up and tactics need to be assessed on the opponent, their formation and style of play. Simply replacing a DM with an attacking player does not mean the formation will work. The use of the words 'pointless' and 'waste of space' is typical hyperbolic nonsense as well.
 
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=47619.msg1430587#msg1430587 date=1321977373]
and for the hundredth time, it's not about lucas as an individual as I think he goes about his business competently enough it's about picking the right side to give you more of a chance of winning 3 points. so if the opposition are going to sit off him what is the fucking point of having him in the side (at home).
[/quote]Youre right!!!!!111111 I advocate leaving out reina and one of the two cb's that way we can have a front 8!!!!1111
That many forwards must scorezzzzzz!!
 
[quote author=Sunny link=topic=47619.msg1430591#msg1430591 date=1321977533]
That's a pretty sweeping statement neil around the lack of need for a DM at home. I see where you're coming from but it's a bit naive as line-up and tactics need to be assessed on the opponent, their formation and style of play. Simply replacing a DM with an attacking player does not mean the formation will work. The use of the words 'pointless' and 'waste of space' is typical hyperbolic nonsense as well.
[/quote]Neil is the Kevin Keegan of internet message boards.
Likeable, Passionate, talks a great game.
But hasnt a fucking clue.
 
I don't want to become too involved in this thread. I'm going to sit back. And watch....
 
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=47619.msg1430592#msg1430592 date=1321977535]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=47619.msg1430587#msg1430587 date=1321977373]
and for the hundredth time, it's not about lucas as an individual as I think he goes about his business competently enough it's about picking the right side to give you more of a chance of winning 3 points. so if the opposition are going to sit off him what is the fucking point of having him in the side (at home).
[/quote]Youre right!!!!!111111 I advocate leaving out reina and one of the two cb's that way we can have a front 8!!!!1111
That many forwards must scorezzzzzz!!
[/quote]

Hahaha. Thing is, Neil would be considered a tactical genius if he was a Barca fan. But he's not. And isn't.

I was pretty scathing about Lucas. I thought it was ridiculous to place so much pressure and reliance on a player who was still finding his feet in English football. But he's stuck at it, toughed it out, and we're now reaping the benefit.

I hope he sees out his career here. Nobody else deserves it more.
 
[quote author=Sunny link=topic=47619.msg1430591#msg1430591 date=1321977533]
That's a pretty sweeping statement neil around the lack of need for a DM at home. I see where you're coming from but it's a bit naive as line-up and tactics need to be assessed on the opponent, their formation and style of play. Simply replacing a DM with an attacking player does not mean the formation will work. The use of the words 'pointless' and 'waste of space' is typical hyperbolic nonsense as well.
[/quote]


I look at the man city team (as an example) and the attacking riches they have on display, lucas would be tailor made for that team allowing the world class talent to do what they do while he quietly goes about his business, however we don't have that attacking talent so I rather we offset that by fielding someone in the middle of the park who will give more going forwards but has the defensive disipline to protect the defense when we are not in possession of the ball.
we can wish for better attacking talent making the need for lucas pronounced as he covers there runs but we don't have this players and we continue to lose points hand over fist.

honest question, would we have missed lucas v swansea?
 
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=47619.msg1430601#msg1430601 date=1321978097]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=47619.msg1430592#msg1430592 date=1321977535]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=47619.msg1430587#msg1430587 date=1321977373]
and for the hundredth time, it's not about lucas as an individual as I think he goes about his business competently enough it's about picking the right side to give you more of a chance of winning 3 points. so if the opposition are going to sit off him what is the fucking point of having him in the side (at home).
[/quote]Youre right!!!!!111111 I advocate leaving out reina and one of the two cb's that way we can have a front 8!!!!1111
That many forwards must scorezzzzzz!!
[/quote]

Hahaha. Thing is, Neil would be considered a tactical genius if he was a Barca fan. But he's not. And isn't.
[/quote]Quite the opposite. He has a whiff of the Florentino Perez about him, ram in as many forwards as possible while Barca win trophies with Keita, Toure, Mascherano etc in the team.
 
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=47619.msg1430603#msg1430603 date=1321978133]
[quote author=Sunny link=topic=47619.msg1430591#msg1430591 date=1321977533]
That's a pretty sweeping statement neil around the lack of need for a DM at home. I see where you're coming from but it's a bit naive as line-up and tactics need to be assessed on the opponent, their formation and style of play. Simply replacing a DM with an attacking player does not mean the formation will work. The use of the words 'pointless' and 'waste of space' is typical hyperbolic nonsense as well.
[/quote]


I look at the man city team (as an example) and the attacking riches they have on display, lucas would be tailor made for that team allowing the world class talent to do what they do while he quietly goes about his business, however we don't have that attacking talent so I rather we offset that by fielding someone in the middle of the park who will give more going forwards but has the defensive disipline to protect the defense when we are not in possession of the ball.
we can wish for better attacking talent making the need for lucas pronounced as he covers there runs but we don't have this players and we continue to lose points hand over fist.

honest question, would we have missed lucas v swansea?
[/quote]

Lucas Leiva was the most accurate passer on the pitch during Liverpool's goalless draw with Swansea at the weekend.

Lucas Leiva recorded the best stats in possession of the 22 who started the game. He passed the ball 66 times with an accuracy of 95.5 per cent.
Click to expand...

Would we have missed Henderson, Carroll or Downing?
 
[quote author=Sunny link=topic=47619.msg1430600#msg1430600 date=1321978027]
I don't want to become too involved in this thread. I'm going to sit back. And watch....
[/quote]

shift over la.

You got the cooling off stick ready?
 
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=47619.msg1430605#msg1430605 date=1321978248]
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=47619.msg1430601#msg1430601 date=1321978097]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=47619.msg1430592#msg1430592 date=1321977535]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=47619.msg1430587#msg1430587 date=1321977373]
and for the hundredth time, it's not about lucas as an individual as I think he goes about his business competently enough it's about picking the right side to give you more of a chance of winning 3 points. so if the opposition are going to sit off him what is the fucking point of having him in the side (at home).
[/quote]Youre right!!!!!111111 I advocate leaving out reina and one of the two cb's that way we can have a front 8!!!!1111
That many forwards must scorezzzzzz!!
[/quote]

Hahaha. Thing is, Neil would be considered a tactical genius if he was a Barca fan. But he's not. And isn't.
[/quote]Quite the opposite. He has a whiff of the Florentino Perez about him, ram in as many forwards as possible while Barca win trophies with Keita, Toure, Mascherano etc in the team.
[/quote]

Ha, maybe:

Neil on the Lucas, Henderson swap: "I've replace a player who can pass 5 yards with a player who can pass 50"
 
also I'm not an advocate of all out attacking football, we just don't have the players to make that happen. I just look at our squad of players, look at individual games and then pick players that are going to give us the best oppertunity to win three points.
for home games I would select players that will give us the best chance of breaking teams down and for away games I would select as much pace as I could, people that will be up for a fight and players with the ability to hold up the ball.

for home games I just don't see the need for an out and out holding midfielder whereas away from home I can absolutely see the need for an out and out holding midfielder. how does that make me an adovcate of gung-hu attacking football?
 
The thing is, I think Lucas has shown he can play a little more offensively when given license. He was given a more attacking role in European games a couple of seasons ago and did really well. I think in certain games he could be encouraged to gamble more.

I agree though Spidey to an extent, and I don't think Lucas's 95% pass completion rate against Swansea was stunning, when in that game we needed to create more chances rather than repeatedly spread the ball around the park tidily. He was tidy, when we needed a player to break from midfield and create an extra body in the box more often.

However, that perhaps requires Kenny to change tactics and encourage him to play more offensively.
 
[quote author=doctor_mac link=topic=47619.msg1430614#msg1430614 date=1321978882]
The thing is, I think Lucas has shown he can play a little more offensively when given license. He was given a more attacking role in European games a couple of seasons ago and did really well. I think in certain games he could be encouraged to gamble more.

I agree though Spidey to an extent, and I don't think Lucas's 95% pass completion rate against Swansea was stunning, when in that game we needed to create more chances rather than repeatedly spread the ball around the park tidily. He was tidy, when we needed a player to break from midfield and create an extra body in the box more often.

However, that perhaps requires Kenny to change tactics and encourage him to play more offensively.
[/quote]

I agree with this ! License to get forward needs to be given...
 
[quote author=doctor_mac link=topic=47619.msg1430614#msg1430614 date=1321978882]
The thing is, I think Lucas has shown he can play a little more offensively when given license. He was given a more attacking role in European games a couple of seasons ago and did really well. I think in certain games he could be encouraged to gamble more.

I agree though Spidey to an extent, and I don't think Lucas's 95% pass completion rate against Swansea was stunning, when in that game we needed to create more chances rather than repeatedly spread the ball around the park tidily. He was tidy, when we needed a player to break from midfield and create an extra body in the box more often.

However, that perhaps requires Kenny to change tactics and encourage him to play more offensively.
[/quote]

totally agree, that's what we need to do. if lucas is the one to do this, fine, but it's something that needs to happen or we are going to continue to piss away points at home. this needs to happen now and it needs to happen with our current squad, it's pointless bemoaning the fact we don't have better attackers, we have to just get on with it.
 
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=47619.msg1430622#msg1430622 date=1321979373]

totally agree, that's what we need to do. if lucas is the one to do this, fine, but it's something that needs to happen or we are going to continue to piss away points at home. this needs to happen now and it needs to happen with our current squad, it's pointless bemoaning the fact we don't have better attackers, we have to just get on with it.
[/quote]

You've just more and less said it's down to Lucas as a player neil, now you're saying it's about formation and tactics.
 
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=47619.msg1430612#msg1430612 date=1321978513]
again, you're talking about what we need rather than what we have[/quote]



[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=47619.msg1430612#msg1430612 date=1321978513]
I want a holding midfielder with more to his game, an alonso, a parker, etc.
whatever.
[/quote]


Spiderneil. Doing it wrong since the internet began.
 
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=47619.msg1430579#msg1430579 date=1321977033]
Those stats are fucking outrageous btw and make the haters look like fucking mongs.
Almost every stat hes near the top of not just for accuracy but for volumes as well.
Amazing to see it broken down like that.

Im sure some (looks up) will complain he hasnt scored enough or made enough one handed saves or some shit, the fact is he's fucking epic.
[/quote]

Calm down , he's not that good .

And if you can't see or admit that he's been shite many , many times in a liverpool shirt then you're as bad as the over the top "haters" . He is playing well in lots of games for us now but he's still not top class .

So do you really think he's good enough to play a major part in a team that will win us the league and other major honours ?
 
[quote author=RedZeppelin link=topic=47619.msg1430630#msg1430630 date=1321979683]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=47619.msg1430579#msg1430579 date=1321977033]
Those stats are fucking outrageous btw and make the haters look like fucking mongs.
Almost every stat hes near the top of not just for accuracy but for volumes as well.
Amazing to see it broken down like that.

Im sure some (looks up) will complain he hasnt scored enough or made enough one handed saves or some shit, the fact is he's fucking epic.
[/quote]

Calm down , he's not that good .

And if you can't see or admit that he's been shite many , many times in a liverpool shirt then you're as bad as the over the top "haters" . He is playing well in lots of games for us now but he's still not top class .

So do you really think he's good enough to play a major part in a team that will win us the league and other major honours ?
[/quote]Eh? I said in my first two posts ive given him shit in the past. Ive said i think he was poor a lot of the time. Im not blind to what he was. But im certainly not one of the blind to what he now is.
And in answer to your question. Yes. Of course.
 
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