I think we'd still lack the cutting edge up front but I also think you'e underestimating the effect he had on the team.
Lucas Leiva - Wonderman.
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I think we'd still lack the cutting edge up front but I also think you'e underestimating the effect he had on the team.
Sound, but let's all play nice though ! I would start by counteracting your earlier statement by actually saying is it coincidence that we've performed so badly with him out of the side ?
So you'd concede that we'd be in a better situation now, if we was playing?
Well durrrr. When Lucas got injured we had just beaten Chelsea and sat on 22 points level with Arsenal, Spurs, Newcastle and Chelsea. We had lost twice all season in all comps (the debacle vs Spurs and the game we battered Stoke and lost).
Since Lucas got injured we have lost 9 times NINE!!
We are now 8th, 16pts behind Arsenal and Spurs and 11pts behind Newcastle and Chelsea.
But then im sure Lucas has nothing to do with that, i mean its not like we were playing good stuff with him in the team.
The players have nothing to do with it, the manager has nothing to do with it. It's all down to how much wages the players are getting.
No but is it not also true we lost a lot of quality players also ? Alonso, Mascherano for starters. Alonso was the biggest loss to this team in recent history in my view.
Oh hai Pesam. Ive given it 22 games since he hasnt played. Weve lost 9 of em.
You said 20 games I know.
He's really REALLY as good as I think he is.
Erm, I'm not quite sure I did, but I'm not feeling very intelligent right now, so I could've botched up my post.
In fairness, Lucas has come on in leaps and bounds, and it started mostly towards the latter half of last season. I've also suggested previously that it was the Lucas/Spearing combo that was the basis of our excellent run in the latter half of last season. We've missed a proper holding player for the last few months, and that's an important part of how I want us to be set up tactically. To the extent that Lucas is the only natural holding midfielder at the club, we've missed him. But my opinion really is that Spearing, though not a natural holding player, has deputised well in Lucas' absence. Thus the difference his presence might have made to the side isn't something I think would have been overly significant, given how numerous our problems are.
You said we weren't a top four side with him in the side, we were a 5-7th place side.
Without him we're now a side with relegation form. Hence we're better with him in the side. Him, and Agger, are the main differences between our form now, and our form at the beginning of the season.
20 Games with Lucas - 2 Defeats
22 Games without Lucas - 9 Defeats.
I think also most people were thinking that at the start of the season we were playing well and battering teams but not always finishing them off.
How I long for those days.
We need to put the ball in the fucking net, the rest will come.
play a 2-4-4
play a 2-4-4
Both your posts are fair Sunny, and represent the Lucas debate well. He isn't Alonso or Mascherano, and isn't ever going to be, but that's really not his fault. Nor was it his fault that Rafa persisted with him for a full season in 2009-10 despite him being quite evidently out of his depth for a top 4 club.
That said, he's always been a credit to himself with his attitude, and his improvement has been remarkable. Did he work himself to become a valuable contributor to the squad - sure, he did. But has he done enough to warrant 'reserving' a place for him in our central midfield for the long term? I don't think so. We should, and would be right in searching for new central midfielders (including a top class holding player), this summer. Not least because of the fact that the injury could mean that he could very easily regress back to the most ordinary player he once used to be.
That said, he's always been a credit to himself with his attitude, and his improvement has been remarkable. Did he work himself to become a valuable contributor to the squad - sure, he did. But has he done enough to warrant 'reserving' a place for him in our central midfield for the long term? I don't think so. We should, and would be right in searching for new central midfielders (including a top class holding player), this summer. Not least because of the fact that the injury could mean that he could very easily regress back to the most ordinary player he once used to be.
I'd agree he did look out of his depth for a top 4 club but I truly feel he is capable of that level now. There will always be better of course and I'd have that Martinez in a heartbeat but I think Lucas is much better, and has been for the last 18 months, than he's been given credit for. His attitude and effort has been faultless though - it's good to see , no matter how you rate him, that commitment is recognised. It's a real shame about the injury because I really do think he could have made a difference is midfield. We still have massive issues on the flanks and up top though.
I want to buy some proper wingers, and do some counter-attack stuff. I've not seen us play consistently like that for ages.
Your mother was a hamster.
The loss of Lucas has been a contributing factor, no doubt, but for a good while we were continuing along the same path as we were when he was in the side. Playing okay, dominating possession and not scoring enough goals.
The total collapse in form in the last few months has come about largely because of other reasons - confidence, players coming in and out of the side due to injuries, suspension and loss of form. Also, the club are doing a reasonably good job of maintaining a united front publicly and trying to convey the season of transition message but I think that privately the players have ceased to care and are looking forward to their holidays / Euros.
The total collapse in form in the last few months has come about largely because of other reasons - confidence, players coming in and out of the side due to injuries, suspension and loss of form. Also, the club are doing a reasonably good job of maintaining a united front publicly and trying to convey the season of transition message but I think that privately the players have ceased to care and are looking forward to their holidays / Euros.
A top bloke is our Mr Levia...................
Lucas Leiva has admitted it has been a frustrating period on the sidelines and says there is still a long way to go in his recovery from knee surgery, but doctors are happy with his progress.Liverpool's
He revealed last month that he was hopeful of being back in action for the start of next season and his rehabilitation is continuing to run smoothly.
"It's going well. The knee has responded very well after surgery," Lucas told the club's official website.
"There's still a long way to go, but everything is going as planned and the doctors are very happy with my progress."
While it has been difficult to miss out on such a lot of playing time, Lucas has tried to stay in positive spirits and has attended every match at Anfield since coming back to England.
The 25-year-old added: "At the home games, I am always involved. I haven't missed one. It's important.
"On a daily basis here at Melwood, I think it's important to be around and try to send my team-mates a positive message and help in any way I can - and I am always there at Anfield to support them.
"It's my first injury since I came to Liverpool, so it's a bit frustrating because I would like to be on the pitch and help my team-mates."
Lucas has also been touched by the support that has been shown to him in his recovery.
"It's been a mix of everything - supporters, team-mates, doctors and my family," he said.
"Everyone has pulled together and it's made a big difference for me. The messages I have received, especially on Twitter, have been very good and they keep me positive and strong to recover."
Source: Sky Sports
