Lucas Leiva - Wonderman.

[doctor_mac]

I think Lucas's awareness has been key to his development. There was a stat (no doubt from our statto Binny) that he had been caught in possession less than all other top DMs in the league. That speaks to his increased awareness of everyone that is around him every time he receives the ball, and it used to be a real problem for him (as indeed, it was a problem for Xabi when he first arrived here).

Wizardry is right to signal that Lucas depends on the movement of others to look good- he isn't prone to bursting past people with the ball, and so relies on people to find space to receive the ball. As his passing stats indicate, if they find the space, chances are, he'll put the ball at their feet. He will never be a Gerrard, but we don't need him to be. If our movement is good Lucas is showing that he can take advantage of it.

 

[spider-Neil]

[quote author=Mystic link=topic=47619.msg1433881#msg1433881 date=1322490838]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=47619.msg1433873#msg1433873 date=1322490464]
well if lucas is to continue as the holding midfielder regardless of opposition then I hope he is given more licence to play further up field to support the attacking players. for someone billed as 'the brazilian gerrard' he most have natural attacking instincts that he is surpressing either by choice or by instuction.

for the record I've pretty much always thought lucas was the best holding midfielder since the departure of alonso and mash and he always been a better passer of the ball than mash. lucas does his 'job' well enough but if we are to break down stubborn opposition at home something needs to change, but we can't continue using the same personnel, the same tactics, and expect results to suddenly improve that doesn't make sense.
maybe introducing bellamy and maxi on a regular basis will enough to do the trick, we'll see...
[/quote]

What do you expect this midfielder you speak of to do? Run through the middle like Gerrard taking on fifteen defenders before slotting it in the bottom corner? It doesn't happen, the way Lucas was passing yesterday and making space through those passes will help break down and stretch the opposition a lot more than this fabled "more adventurous" midfielder you keep harping on about. The reason we didn't break down Swansea etc wasn't because of Lucas, lots of players played below par, which I believe is due to them gelling as a team.
[/quote]

obviously I'm not saying it's all lucas' fault, our attackers can't finish for shit but it's 4 home draws in a row regardless of where the blame lies. I'm not even saying we've been too cautious as we've credit enough chances. maybe we'd have been better off going for broke, even turning just two of those draws into wins would have been more beneficial even if we'd lost the other two. it's a concern, we can't keep pissing away points at home and expect to finish top 4.

 

[Gerry_A_Trick]

If we played Henderson in Lucas' position, I'd say we'd have less points now. Even if you suggest it's "going for broke", it doesn't mean we'd do any better.

 

[spider-Neil]

[quote author=Gerry_A_Trick link=topic=47619.msg1433902#msg1433902 date=1322491821]
If we played Henderson in Lucas' position, I'd say we'd have less points now. Even if you suggest it's "going for broke", it doesn't mean we'd do any better.
[/quote]

ideally it would be gerrard but gerrard look like he is coming back anytime soon. lucas (imho) would give more going forward than spearing so that leave jonjo (who is on loan) and henderson who looks a little raw. okay, put it this way, if bellamy and maxi are drafted in and we continue to draw, what then? this isn't about dropping lucas for every single home game this is accessing the strengths and weakness of the opposition and if we can get away without an out and out holding midfielder we should go for it before spurs (and another team) disappear over the horizon.

 

[Gerry_A_Trick]

First of all, Lucas is not and out and out holding midfielder. It's not as if he doesn't leave his own half, and it's not as if he doesn't make attacking passes.

Secondly, what makes you think we aren't going for it? There's only one match this season, in my opinion, where we haven't done enough to win it. It's not often we can say that.

 

[spider-Neil]

[quote author=Gerry_A_Trick link=topic=47619.msg1433921#msg1433921 date=1322493052]
First of all, Lucas is not and out and out holding midfielder. It's not as if he doesn't leave his own half, and it's not as if he doesn't make attacking passes.

Secondly, what makes you think we aren't going for it? There's only one match this season, in my opinion, where we haven't done enough to win it. It's not often we can say that.

[/quote]


well anyway, hopefully maxi and bellamy will be enough to tip the balance because kuyt and downing need a rest.

 

[the_dude]

it's incredibly tiring even seeing threads about lucas, especially how he gets another 10 pages dedicated to him after every performance.

 

[gene hughes]

Maybe we should have a poll to see if there are still any doubters out there and if there aren't many then we can stop this endless fucking babble after every game.

 

[Sunny]

In all fairness this thread happened before the game but yeh I'm tired of the Lucas debate. I know my standpoint and have done for some time.

 

[the_dude]

im well aware it did happen before the game, but since the game there have been loads more pages yet again which is what i said

 

[Sunny]

Don't read them then if they wear you out so much

 

[Fabio]

this thread fills me with vigour and mildly erotic thoughts

love it

 

[the count]

[quote author=Fabio link=topic=47619.msg1433947#msg1433947 date=1322495293]
this thread fills me with vigour and mildly erotic thoughts

love it
[/quote]I dunno.
I reckon the debate is just going back and forth without ever really moving forward.

 

[the_dude]

[quote author=Sunny link=topic=47619.msg1433945#msg1433945 date=1322495133]
Don't read them then if they wear you out so much
[/quote]

i didnt say i did read them, and i don't. but even seeing them on the football forum, you know exactly what is being said without even reading it.

 

[Fabio]

[quote author=the count link=topic=47619.msg1433952#msg1433952 date=1322495481]
[quote author=Fabio link=topic=47619.msg1433947#msg1433947 date=1322495293]
this thread fills me with vigour and mildly erotic thoughts

love it
[/quote]I dunno.
I reckon the debate is just going back and forth without ever really moving forward.
[/quote]

zing!

 

[spider-Neil]

with lucas I there are always going to be comparisons to;
alonso - who sat deep whilst sheilding the defense but hurt teams from that deep position

mash - who sheilded the defense but did it all over the pitch and usually in an advanced position

I think lucas will eventually go on to be much better than mash (purely because he has better technique but mash had more mobility) I don't think he will ever grow to be better than alonso though.

 

[Oncy]

[quote author=the_dude link=topic=47619.msg1433957#msg1433957 date=1322495767]
[quote author=Sunny link=topic=47619.msg1433945#msg1433945 date=1322495133]
Don't read them then if they wear you out so much
[/quote]

i didnt say i did read them, and i don't. but even seeing them on the football forum, you know exactly what is being said without even reading it.
[/quote]Really? REALLY!?

 

[Mamma Mia]

The "debate" is far from stagnant. With each week, Lucas haters soften their stance a little more, do a little history-revision about how they really meant he just wasn't a title winning DM when they said "he's a useless cunt", and some of them start to admit they were wrong.


We've been through the same thing with Carra and Dirk. My money is on Carroll being the next in this line.

 

[darkstarexodus]

[quote author=the count link=topic=47619.msg1433952#msg1433952 date=1322495481]
[quote author=Fabio link=topic=47619.msg1433947#msg1433947 date=1322495293]
this thread fills me with vigour and mildly erotic thoughts

love it
[/quote]I dunno.
I reckon the debate is just going back and forth without ever really moving forward.
[/quote]

Back and forth in an erotic rhythm thoufh... Surely....

 

[the_dude]

[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=47619.msg1433974#msg1433974 date=1322496593]
[quote author=the_dude link=topic=47619.msg1433957#msg1433957 date=1322495767]
[quote author=Sunny link=topic=47619.msg1433945#msg1433945 date=1322495133]
Don't read them then if they wear you out so much
[/quote]

i didnt say i did read them, and i don't. but even seeing them on the football forum, you know exactly what is being said without even reading it.
[/quote]Really? REALLY!?
[/quote]

well, yes to the latter point but i have skimmed through this thread. that's irrelevant to my original post though!

 

[Skullflower]

chill out, dude.

 

[Sunny]

Yeah, skimmer !

 

[the_dude]

[quote author=Skullflower link=topic=47619.msg1433994#msg1433994 date=1322498490]
chill out, dude.
[/quote]

you are getting battered at christmas dinner. i'm gonna jam a parsnip in your eye

 

[the count]

[quote author=the_dude link=topic=47619.msg1434004#msg1434004 date=1322500191]
[quote author=Skullflower link=topic=47619.msg1433994#msg1433994 date=1322498490]
chill out, dude.
[/quote]

you are getting battered at christmas dinner. i'm gonna jam a parsnip in your eye
[/quote]A different inlet than usual I assume

 

[the_dude]

[quote author=the count link=topic=47619.msg1434006#msg1434006 date=1322500474]
[quote author=the_dude link=topic=47619.msg1434004#msg1434004 date=1322500191]
[quote author=Skullflower link=topic=47619.msg1433994#msg1433994 date=1322498490]
chill out, dude.
[/quote]

you are getting battered at christmas dinner. i'm gonna jam a parsnip in your eye
[/quote]A different inlet than usual I assume
[/quote]

after the last time, the rest of the family dig deep and make sure there are no left overs to avoid this outcome

 

[Gary25]

Lucas was unbelievable yesterday. Flawless display.

 

[spider-Neil]

[quote author=Gary25 link=topic=47619.msg1434010#msg1434010 date=1322500994]
Lucas was unbelievable yesterday. Flawless display.
[/quote]

he got turned by dzeco(sp) so a almost flawless display. 😉

 

[Gary25]

[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=47619.msg1434021#msg1434021 date=1322502869]
[quote author=Gary25 link=topic=47619.msg1434010#msg1434010 date=1322500994]
Lucas was unbelievable yesterday. Flawless display.
[/quote]

he got turned by dzeco(sp) so a almost flawless display. 😉
[/quote]

Any wonder, he was dead on his feet. Dzeko was fresh as a daisy having been left on the bench.

 

[spider-Neil]

[quote author=Gary25 link=topic=47619.msg1434024#msg1434024 date=1322503675]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=47619.msg1434021#msg1434021 date=1322502869]
[quote author=Gary25 link=topic=47619.msg1434010#msg1434010 date=1322500994]
Lucas was unbelievable yesterday. Flawless display.
[/quote]

he got turned by dzeco(sp) so a almost flawless display. 😉
[/quote]

Any wonder, he was dead on his feet. Dzeko was fresh as a daisy having been left on the bench.
[/quote]

to be honest when dzeko squared for silva I thought we had blown it, that is twice in the game pepe saved us by rushing out and closing down the angle.

 

[Oncy]

[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=47619.msg1434021#msg1434021 date=1322502869]
[quote author=Gary25 link=topic=47619.msg1434010#msg1434010 date=1322500994]
Lucas was unbelievable yesterday. Flawless display.
[/quote]

he got turned by dzeco(sp) so a almost flawless display. 😉
[/quote]

Every time you post on Lucas i see this in my head.
Youre Ed Begley.
Lucas is the kid
SCM are the other jurors.

12 angry men great scene