Im saving Ryans post above to post at a more appropriate time!
Lucas Leiva - Wonderman.
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[quote author=juniormember link=topic=47619.msg1433651#msg1433651 date=1322462512]
Ryan, do you see the exact same player now as you saw a few years ago when you first started licking Lucas' arse?
Because if it's a resounding yes, you'd have to be in denial.
The tempo at which he can now play, and thus his quick passing, positioning, timing when going into tackles, etc have improved dramatically (dramatically might even be an understatement), not to mention his obvious effort in improving his strength.
He's a different player now. When he was first put into an unfamiliar position under Rafa, he was poor. He was shellshocked with the tempo and physicality, and also seemed confused as to what he could and couldn't do in that position. His timing when going into tackles was also pretty awful.
He's transformed completely now and made the position his own. But I think it could have gone either way, and it wasn't all that obvious that he was going to become such a good holding midfielder.
Either way, we're all happy about him.
[/quote]
His early supporters on here were not at RAWK like levels of gushing over him a couple of years a ago.
The general sentiment amongst his SCM defenders was more like "He's nowhere as bad as made out", "He can be good enough for a title challenging team" and "There's a player in there".
Some rightly praised his attitude and work ethic all along.
Ryan, do you see the exact same player now as you saw a few years ago when you first started licking Lucas' arse?
Because if it's a resounding yes, you'd have to be in denial.
The tempo at which he can now play, and thus his quick passing, positioning, timing when going into tackles, etc have improved dramatically (dramatically might even be an understatement), not to mention his obvious effort in improving his strength.
He's a different player now. When he was first put into an unfamiliar position under Rafa, he was poor. He was shellshocked with the tempo and physicality, and also seemed confused as to what he could and couldn't do in that position. His timing when going into tackles was also pretty awful.
He's transformed completely now and made the position his own. But I think it could have gone either way, and it wasn't all that obvious that he was going to become such a good holding midfielder.
Either way, we're all happy about him.
[/quote]
His early supporters on here were not at RAWK like levels of gushing over him a couple of years a ago.
The general sentiment amongst his SCM defenders was more like "He's nowhere as bad as made out", "He can be good enough for a title challenging team" and "There's a player in there".
Some rightly praised his attitude and work ethic all along.
I don't think there was anybody, bar maybe brendanj, that didn't praise his attitude and work ethic. It was his general performance that left a lot to be desired at times.
I totally agree with most of what Ryan said in his last post, and I think he's got it bang on with his last sentence:
Apart from strength conditioning, this is so true. Absolutely amazing how a player performance can change so dramatically via the mind. But it makes sense. When to pass, where to pass, when to stick to a position, when to let loose and go up field, when to tackle, when to stay up, etc, etc.
I'm now firmly in the fan club.
I totally agree with most of what Ryan said in his last post, and I think he's got it bang on with his last sentence:
Apart from strength conditioning, this is so true. Absolutely amazing how a player performance can change so dramatically via the mind. But it makes sense. When to pass, where to pass, when to stick to a position, when to let loose and go up field, when to tackle, when to stay up, etc, etc.
I'm now firmly in the fan club.
Was Lucas the best player on the pitch yesterday? Yes.
Is Lucas currently one of the best DM's in the league? Yes.
Is there a dearth of good DM's in the league at present? Yes.
Do I still want us to find a better DM than Lucas before United, Chelsea, City etc strengthen this department? Yes.
Is Lucas currently one of the best DM's in the league? Yes.
Is there a dearth of good DM's in the league at present? Yes.
Do I still want us to find a better DM than Lucas before United, Chelsea, City etc strengthen this department? Yes.
@ ryan
I thought lucas was excellent yesterday against top opposition and these are the games he comes into his own, these are the games I would absolutely play lucas so you are preaching to the choir in this regard.
I realise lucas is doing his job and the attackers aren't doing theirs as I've said in previous posts. ultimately we need better attackers that is an absolute given, kuyt seems to be in a slump as does downing so bringing in maxi and bellamy who will provide more attacking threat seems a sure way to provide extra momentum at home.
the reason I mention henderson isn't because I think he would do a better job of sheilding the defence than lucas, I mentioned henderson as I think he would provide more forward momentum than lucas in his (henderson) natural position the middle of the park.
you keep mentioning the likes of city, manu and barca but those teams have quality attackers so their position isn't comparable to ours. barca have xavi, inesta an messi who are more than capable of breaking teams down so a holding midfielder giving licence to them to go forwards makes sense.
you're saying lucas gives licence for our stuttering attackers to go forwards, yay. I want to add another attacker to the mix and see if it changes our fortunes with regards to breaking teams down.
this has nothing to do with lucas' ability to shield the defence something I've been at pains to stress, this is about changing our basic set up (at home) and seeing if our fortunes change. maybe introducing bellamy and maxi will be enough to address the balance (without buying new attackers) all I know we need to change something or we'll continue to drop points and our CL challenge will disappear up our own arse.
when we purchase true quality in wide areas then I wont have a problem with lucas providing a platform for them to build attackers but until that time I want see the CM providing an attacking threat (both of them) I don't think we can afford to have on of the CM sitting back as we fail time and time to again to kill off the opposition. let's agree to disagree, eh?
I thought lucas was excellent yesterday against top opposition and these are the games he comes into his own, these are the games I would absolutely play lucas so you are preaching to the choir in this regard.
I realise lucas is doing his job and the attackers aren't doing theirs as I've said in previous posts. ultimately we need better attackers that is an absolute given, kuyt seems to be in a slump as does downing so bringing in maxi and bellamy who will provide more attacking threat seems a sure way to provide extra momentum at home.
the reason I mention henderson isn't because I think he would do a better job of sheilding the defence than lucas, I mentioned henderson as I think he would provide more forward momentum than lucas in his (henderson) natural position the middle of the park.
you keep mentioning the likes of city, manu and barca but those teams have quality attackers so their position isn't comparable to ours. barca have xavi, inesta an messi who are more than capable of breaking teams down so a holding midfielder giving licence to them to go forwards makes sense.
you're saying lucas gives licence for our stuttering attackers to go forwards, yay. I want to add another attacker to the mix and see if it changes our fortunes with regards to breaking teams down.
this has nothing to do with lucas' ability to shield the defence something I've been at pains to stress, this is about changing our basic set up (at home) and seeing if our fortunes change. maybe introducing bellamy and maxi will be enough to address the balance (without buying new attackers) all I know we need to change something or we'll continue to drop points and our CL challenge will disappear up our own arse.
when we purchase true quality in wide areas then I wont have a problem with lucas providing a platform for them to build attackers but until that time I want see the CM providing an attacking threat (both of them) I don't think we can afford to have on of the CM sitting back as we fail time and time to again to kill off the opposition. let's agree to disagree, eh?
[quote author=Pesam link=topic=47619.msg1433673#msg1433673 date=1322468761]
Was Lucas the best player on the pitch yesterday? Yes.
Is Lucas currently one of the best DM's in the league? Yes.
Is there a dearth of good DM's in the league at present? Yes.
Do I still want us to find a better DM than Lucas before United, Chelsea, City etc strengthen this department? Yes.
[/quote]
At the rate that Lucas has been improving over the last few years, finding a better DM is simple.
Just wait a week.
Was Lucas the best player on the pitch yesterday? Yes.
Is Lucas currently one of the best DM's in the league? Yes.
Is there a dearth of good DM's in the league at present? Yes.
Do I still want us to find a better DM than Lucas before United, Chelsea, City etc strengthen this department? Yes.
[/quote]
At the rate that Lucas has been improving over the last few years, finding a better DM is simple.
Just wait a week.
Lucas wasn't always the collosus he is turning into. He was pish for a long time for whatever reason and rightly criticized for it.
All this righteous posturing about I told you Lucas is this and that is fucking ridiculous............Nostradamus Syndrome?
Get a grip lads.
All this righteous posturing about I told you Lucas is this and that is fucking ridiculous............Nostradamus Syndrome?
Get a grip lads.
Seriously though, his detractors must admit that he is currently better than they ever thought he would be.
So to keep suggesting we need better without acknowledging that this may not be his ceiling and Lucas himself could continue to improve.... well that's just close-minded in the face of already being proved wrong on the lad.
He's what, 24 now?
So to keep suggesting we need better without acknowledging that this may not be his ceiling and Lucas himself could continue to improve.... well that's just close-minded in the face of already being proved wrong on the lad.
He's what, 24 now?
[quote author=juniormember link=topic=47619.msg1433661#msg1433661 date=1322465687]
I don't think there was anybody, bar maybe brendanj, that didn't praise his attitude and work ethic. It was his general performance that left a lot to be desired at times.
I totally agree with most of what Ryan said in his last post, and I think he's got it bang on with his last sentence:
Apart from strength conditioning, this is so true. Absolutely amazing how a player performance can change so dramatically via the mind. But it makes sense. When to pass, where to pass, when to stick to a position, when to let loose and go up field, when to tackle, when to stay up, etc, etc.
I'm now firmly in the fan club.
[/quote]
I think that's probably half the truth. Either way he hasn't and still doesn't always perform at this level. Whether his confidence has grown and something has changed inside of him and he's stepped out of the shadows a bit, it doesn't alter the fact that he used to play it safe too often and many of the more adventurous passes he did try to play often didn't come off, making it seem as though he squandered possession and he did used to give away needless freekicks in key areas.
I've ALWAYS said he plays well in the big games, the issue has been more about his tendency to go missing in the games against the Blackpool's and Stokes of the World, making himself look decidedly average in the process.
There's no reason for an 'I told you so', because the level he's playing at now is well above the level he took flack for.
When Didi Hamann played his first season for us most people branded him a waste of money & couldn't see what the fuss was about. He looked average too many times and was constantly linked with being sold at the end of that first season. He turned it round, players do, sometimes it's not so obvious and the criticism is warranted. And hey, who knows, some players need the arm around the shoulder, maybe others need the criticism to harden them and make them stronger. If this is the end product of fans and media alike pressing him to up his game then perhaps in some perverted way, it's been worth it. I'd never condone abuse in the stands, some of the stuff he's had to tolerate has been a disgrace, but it's testament to Lucas the way he's turned it into such a positive thing and become what's looking to be a fine player as a result of his own determination. He's credit to himself and the club
I don't think there was anybody, bar maybe brendanj, that didn't praise his attitude and work ethic. It was his general performance that left a lot to be desired at times.
I totally agree with most of what Ryan said in his last post, and I think he's got it bang on with his last sentence:
Apart from strength conditioning, this is so true. Absolutely amazing how a player performance can change so dramatically via the mind. But it makes sense. When to pass, where to pass, when to stick to a position, when to let loose and go up field, when to tackle, when to stay up, etc, etc.
I'm now firmly in the fan club.
[/quote]
I think that's probably half the truth. Either way he hasn't and still doesn't always perform at this level. Whether his confidence has grown and something has changed inside of him and he's stepped out of the shadows a bit, it doesn't alter the fact that he used to play it safe too often and many of the more adventurous passes he did try to play often didn't come off, making it seem as though he squandered possession and he did used to give away needless freekicks in key areas.
I've ALWAYS said he plays well in the big games, the issue has been more about his tendency to go missing in the games against the Blackpool's and Stokes of the World, making himself look decidedly average in the process.
There's no reason for an 'I told you so', because the level he's playing at now is well above the level he took flack for.
When Didi Hamann played his first season for us most people branded him a waste of money & couldn't see what the fuss was about. He looked average too many times and was constantly linked with being sold at the end of that first season. He turned it round, players do, sometimes it's not so obvious and the criticism is warranted. And hey, who knows, some players need the arm around the shoulder, maybe others need the criticism to harden them and make them stronger. If this is the end product of fans and media alike pressing him to up his game then perhaps in some perverted way, it's been worth it. I'd never condone abuse in the stands, some of the stuff he's had to tolerate has been a disgrace, but it's testament to Lucas the way he's turned it into such a positive thing and become what's looking to be a fine player as a result of his own determination. He's credit to himself and the club
[quote author=RolandG link=topic=47619.msg1433678#msg1433678 date=1322469536]
Lucas wasn't always the collosus he is turning into. He was pish for a long time for whatever reason and rightly criticized for it.
All this righteous posturing about I told you Lucas is this and that is fucking ridiculous............Nostradamus Syndrome?
Get a grip lads.
[/quote]
Umm... where? That one post from Ryan?
Lucas wasn't always the collosus he is turning into. He was pish for a long time for whatever reason and rightly criticized for it.
All this righteous posturing about I told you Lucas is this and that is fucking ridiculous............Nostradamus Syndrome?
Get a grip lads.
[/quote]
Umm... where? That one post from Ryan?
as a few others have pointed out, i think the key point to consider is that he's STILL only 24. for a player with no pace and immaculate fitness, that probably means we've got 10 years more service from him at at least this level. ok, it has been a bit of an arduous journey with him at times, but that £5m is starting to look a wonderful piece of business.
I'm not going to go down the told-you-so route at all. I've always said Lucas is a better player than many thought. Yesterday made me think he 's got potential to be a better player than even I thought such was his performance - it was superb. The problem I've always had is the abusive type of criticism levelled at the lad - you know, the likes of "he's a cunt", "he's fucking shit" etc.. I always fail to see what he did to warrant that. One thing people could never level at him was his level of effort and the fact he's never gone hiding. We've had loads of technically capable players over the years who, if they had the same application, could have been excellent players over the years and we, as a team, would have been far better off if that would have happened.
You know, I want all our players to do well. I criticised Charlie Adam earlier in the season - his lack of mobility, he was slow to move the ball and his fitness. Now he, like Lucas, is obviously working hard on those aspects of his game and he's reaping rewards now. He's turning into a very good player for us and a bargain for the price we paid. Never though have I resorted to calling him shit or a "fat cunt" etc.. I don't see the point in that. I'm made up for him and the team and the fact I'm in less of a position to criticise.
Back to Lucas, he will - like all players - have good and bad games. He's having much more frequent good games than bad at the moment but I hope, when he does have a bad game, he doesn't receive the usual slaughtering. Given the levels of abuse and criticism he's had to endure as a young lad learning his trade I think he deserves a fair bit of respect for getting anywhere near the player he has become and could potentially be.
You know, I want all our players to do well. I criticised Charlie Adam earlier in the season - his lack of mobility, he was slow to move the ball and his fitness. Now he, like Lucas, is obviously working hard on those aspects of his game and he's reaping rewards now. He's turning into a very good player for us and a bargain for the price we paid. Never though have I resorted to calling him shit or a "fat cunt" etc.. I don't see the point in that. I'm made up for him and the team and the fact I'm in less of a position to criticise.
Back to Lucas, he will - like all players - have good and bad games. He's having much more frequent good games than bad at the moment but I hope, when he does have a bad game, he doesn't receive the usual slaughtering. Given the levels of abuse and criticism he's had to endure as a young lad learning his trade I think he deserves a fair bit of respect for getting anywhere near the player he has become and could potentially be.
I think certain people are waiting for his next bad game so they can jump on it.
I didn't want to say this as he is probably my favourite Liverpool player ever. But the way Lucas was playing yesterday really reminded me of Xabi. He was so classy, the cute touches to make a yard of space from a opposition player, the beautifully beautiful weighted balls along the ground, the way he tackled and used his body to win the ball. We've missed that so much since Xabi left, he doesn't have the hollywood passes and bar crashing long shots that Xabi did, but he was classy and dictated the entire game yesterday, especially in the second half, it was a joy to behold. More against Fulham please.
[quote author=Mamma Mia link=topic=47619.msg1433681#msg1433681 date=1322469740]
[quote author=RolandG link=topic=47619.msg1433678#msg1433678 date=1322469536]
Lucas wasn't always the collosus he is turning into. He was pish for a long time for whatever reason and rightly criticized for it.
All this righteous posturing about I told you Lucas is this and that is fucking ridiculous............Nostradamus Syndrome?
Get a grip lads.
[/quote]
Umm... where? That one post from Ryan?
[/quote]
There's a few others but I could be bothered to trawl the site.
With the top teams out of the way lets get goals and continue the run. Its gonna be a dogfight for the top 4.
[quote author=RolandG link=topic=47619.msg1433678#msg1433678 date=1322469536]
Lucas wasn't always the collosus he is turning into. He was pish for a long time for whatever reason and rightly criticized for it.
All this righteous posturing about I told you Lucas is this and that is fucking ridiculous............Nostradamus Syndrome?
Get a grip lads.
[/quote]
Umm... where? That one post from Ryan?
[/quote]
There's a few others but I could be bothered to trawl the site.
With the top teams out of the way lets get goals and continue the run. Its gonna be a dogfight for the top 4.
[quote author=Gerry_A_Trick link=topic=47619.msg1433694#msg1433694 date=1322472404]
I think certain people are waiting for his next bad game so they can jump on it.
[/quote]
Oh without a doubt. But certain other players will be granted the leeway - as usual.
I think certain people are waiting for his next bad game so they can jump on it.
[/quote]
Oh without a doubt. But certain other players will be granted the leeway - as usual.
Lucas: Pass Accuracy: 92.2% Tackle Win: 100% (7/7) Ground Duel Won: 81% (13/16) Aerial Duels Won: 100% (4/4)
61 - Lucas Leiva has made as many tackles as Kompany, Barry and Yaya Toure together.
Lucas Leiva vs Manchester City | 27.11.2011 | HD
61 - Lucas Leiva has made as many tackles as Kompany, Barry and Yaya Toure together.
Lucas Leiva vs Manchester City | 27.11.2011 | HD
Just in answer to Junior and a couple of others questioning Lucas now and a few years ago.
I thought Ryan's post was very good though I'm going to stay away from the "I told you so" gloss and glamour. That said, I think he's only got half of it.
I always defended Lucas not because I thought he'd put in excellent performances but because;
(1) he was never as bad as the desperate attention seekers claimed him to be and
(2) he consistently did something that most of our players fail/failed to do; he passed the ball first time with wonderful accuracy.
This second point always convinced me that Lucas had plenty of talent and footballing nous. He was struggling in other areas which tended to hide these talents but they always stood out to me. The fact he never hid told me he was going to put in the effort to overcome the problem areas and after that his real talents would become more obvious.
Lucas isn't an athlete and it is to his detriment in this league. He wasn't born with power, strength or a scary burst of pace. He's not 6"5' and built like Sampson with the agility of a ballerina. Lucas is a footballer with a footballing brain and, once he learned how to adapt to the athletic requirements of the role Rafa gave him I thought he'd be a success.
For me that adaptation was well into the final stages a couple of years ago and we started to witness his good performances - though many called them a fluke.
Ryan says the reason he's come on under Kenny is because he now believes in himself, he believes he should be there; Kenny has given him confidence. I'll agree that has a lot to do with it but I think at least half the reason lies elsewhere. As I said at the beginning, I thought Lucas was good/would be good because of his first time passing. Kenny asked his players to find space (Ming was a master at it last season) and that is always going to provide the opportunity for a good passer. I don't mean the hollywood balls like Stevie and Xabi which Charlie now tries to emulate - rather the quick interchange of passing; the angled foot to change the ball and move it on with just one touch.
It's no co-incidence that Lucas (and Adam) looked to struggle a little after the departure of Ming; nor is it a co-incidence that they've started to look so much better as the players movement ahead of them has improved in the last few weeks. That focus of the team on playing football is providing Lucas with the opportunity to demonstrate he's a footballer. He's worked hard to master the physical requirements and now he can let his footballing ability speak for itself because the team ethos allows it.
For me this is the main reason for Lucas looking so good this season.
I thought Ryan's post was very good though I'm going to stay away from the "I told you so" gloss and glamour. That said, I think he's only got half of it.
I always defended Lucas not because I thought he'd put in excellent performances but because;
(1) he was never as bad as the desperate attention seekers claimed him to be and
(2) he consistently did something that most of our players fail/failed to do; he passed the ball first time with wonderful accuracy.
This second point always convinced me that Lucas had plenty of talent and footballing nous. He was struggling in other areas which tended to hide these talents but they always stood out to me. The fact he never hid told me he was going to put in the effort to overcome the problem areas and after that his real talents would become more obvious.
Lucas isn't an athlete and it is to his detriment in this league. He wasn't born with power, strength or a scary burst of pace. He's not 6"5' and built like Sampson with the agility of a ballerina. Lucas is a footballer with a footballing brain and, once he learned how to adapt to the athletic requirements of the role Rafa gave him I thought he'd be a success.
For me that adaptation was well into the final stages a couple of years ago and we started to witness his good performances - though many called them a fluke.
Ryan says the reason he's come on under Kenny is because he now believes in himself, he believes he should be there; Kenny has given him confidence. I'll agree that has a lot to do with it but I think at least half the reason lies elsewhere. As I said at the beginning, I thought Lucas was good/would be good because of his first time passing. Kenny asked his players to find space (Ming was a master at it last season) and that is always going to provide the opportunity for a good passer. I don't mean the hollywood balls like Stevie and Xabi which Charlie now tries to emulate - rather the quick interchange of passing; the angled foot to change the ball and move it on with just one touch.
It's no co-incidence that Lucas (and Adam) looked to struggle a little after the departure of Ming; nor is it a co-incidence that they've started to look so much better as the players movement ahead of them has improved in the last few weeks. That focus of the team on playing football is providing Lucas with the opportunity to demonstrate he's a footballer. He's worked hard to master the physical requirements and now he can let his footballing ability speak for itself because the team ethos allows it.
For me this is the main reason for Lucas looking so good this season.
[quote author=grjt link=topic=47619.msg1433831#msg1433831 date=1322487528]
He played a pass yesterday in the second half (with the outside of his right foot), that if it had been Alonso the board would have been having a group reach-around over.
[/quote]
I remember the one, it was sublime!
He played a pass yesterday in the second half (with the outside of his right foot), that if it had been Alonso the board would have been having a group reach-around over.
[/quote]
I remember the one, it was sublime!
Wiz has maintained a consistent stance on Lucas but I've never agreed with the whole quick mind first time passing thing.
Lucas has always looked pretty hesistant in the past, one of his main problems, and whilst he looked capable perhaps technically of playing first time passes, it wasn't a consistent feature of his play.
As Lucas has grown in confidence the trademark hesistation has decreased and we are indeed seeing more from him in terms of moving the ball around with confidence and purpose. Purpose being key.
Lucas has always looked pretty hesistant in the past, one of his main problems, and whilst he looked capable perhaps technically of playing first time passes, it wasn't a consistent feature of his play.
As Lucas has grown in confidence the trademark hesistation has decreased and we are indeed seeing more from him in terms of moving the ball around with confidence and purpose. Purpose being key.
well if lucas is to continue as the holding midfielder regardless of opposition then I hope he is given more licence to play further up field to support the attacking players. for someone billed as 'the brazilian gerrard' he most have natural attacking instincts that he is surpressing either by choice or by instuction.
for the record I've pretty much always thought lucas was the best holding midfielder since the departure of alonso and mash and he always been a better passer of the ball than mash. lucas does his 'job' well enough but if we are to break down stubborn opposition at home something needs to change, but we can't continue using the same personnel, the same tactics, and expect results to suddenly improve that doesn't make sense.
maybe introducing bellamy and maxi on a regular basis will enough to do the trick, we'll see...
for the record I've pretty much always thought lucas was the best holding midfielder since the departure of alonso and mash and he always been a better passer of the ball than mash. lucas does his 'job' well enough but if we are to break down stubborn opposition at home something needs to change, but we can't continue using the same personnel, the same tactics, and expect results to suddenly improve that doesn't make sense.
maybe introducing bellamy and maxi on a regular basis will enough to do the trick, we'll see...
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=47619.msg1433873#msg1433873 date=1322490464]
well if lucas is to continue as the holding midfielder regardless of opposition then I hope he is given more licence to play further up field to support the attacking players. for someone billed as 'the brazilian gerrard' he most have natural attacking instincts that he is surpressing either by choice or by instuction.
for the record I've pretty much always thought lucas was the best holding midfielder since the departure of alonso and mash and he always been a better passer of the ball than mash. lucas does his 'job' well enough but if we are to break down stubborn opposition at home something needs to change, but we can't continue using the same personnel, the same tactics, and expect results to suddenly improve that doesn't make sense.
maybe introducing bellamy and maxi on a regular basis will enough to do the trick, we'll see...
[/quote]
What do you expect this midfielder you speak of to do? Run through the middle like Gerrard taking on fifteen defenders before slotting it in the bottom corner? It doesn't happen, the way Lucas was passing yesterday and making space through those passes will help break down and stretch the opposition a lot more than this fabled "more adventurous" midfielder you keep harping on about. The reason we didn't break down Swansea etc wasn't because of Lucas, lots of players played below par, which I believe is due to them gelling as a team.
well if lucas is to continue as the holding midfielder regardless of opposition then I hope he is given more licence to play further up field to support the attacking players. for someone billed as 'the brazilian gerrard' he most have natural attacking instincts that he is surpressing either by choice or by instuction.
for the record I've pretty much always thought lucas was the best holding midfielder since the departure of alonso and mash and he always been a better passer of the ball than mash. lucas does his 'job' well enough but if we are to break down stubborn opposition at home something needs to change, but we can't continue using the same personnel, the same tactics, and expect results to suddenly improve that doesn't make sense.
maybe introducing bellamy and maxi on a regular basis will enough to do the trick, we'll see...
[/quote]
What do you expect this midfielder you speak of to do? Run through the middle like Gerrard taking on fifteen defenders before slotting it in the bottom corner? It doesn't happen, the way Lucas was passing yesterday and making space through those passes will help break down and stretch the opposition a lot more than this fabled "more adventurous" midfielder you keep harping on about. The reason we didn't break down Swansea etc wasn't because of Lucas, lots of players played below par, which I believe is due to them gelling as a team.
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