Who would you rather have Brendan, Lucas or Sissoko? I was having this debate with my mate last night.
Lucas is our best player this season
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There's no latent, untapped talent in Lucarse
He is never going to suddenly 'explode' and turn into a quality player because he has no obvious attributes at all
I said it three years ago and nothing has changed
It's fucking sickening that he is starting games for Liverpool
He is never going to suddenly 'explode' and turn into a quality player because he has no obvious attributes at all
I said it three years ago and nothing has changed
It's fucking sickening that he is starting games for Liverpool
I raged against Brains regularly when he was here, as most will know. Sissoko was a brainless cunt of a footballer and his passing his undeniably worse than Lucas's
That said, he did have a few awesome games (barca, chelsea, west ham) and The Invisible Cunt is incapable of scaling those heights
I dunno, it's pretty close really
That said, he did have a few awesome games (barca, chelsea, west ham) and The Invisible Cunt is incapable of scaling those heights
I dunno, it's pretty close really
That was my point. I couldn't really decide. I've seen Sissoko dominate games for us due to his sheer athleticism and power. Lucas will never do that. And he will never be creative enough to dominate it technically.
Sissoko for all his faults at least stamped his authority on a few games for us. I didn't mind him. He is what he is. I don't know what Lucas is.
Sissoko for all his faults at least stamped his authority on a few games for us. I didn't mind him. He is what he is. I don't know what Lucas is.
[quote author=Halmeister link=topic=38907.msg1054401#msg1054401 date=1266083063]
That was my point. I couldn't really decide. I've seen Sissoko dominate games for us due to his sheer athleticism and power. Lucas will never do that. And he will never be creative enough to dominate it technically.
Sissoko for all his faults at least stamped his authority on a few games for us. I didn't mind him. He is what he is. I don't know what Lucas is.
[/quote]
Thats the exact reason i would have him ahead of Lucas.
That was my point. I couldn't really decide. I've seen Sissoko dominate games for us due to his sheer athleticism and power. Lucas will never do that. And he will never be creative enough to dominate it technically.
Sissoko for all his faults at least stamped his authority on a few games for us. I didn't mind him. He is what he is. I don't know what Lucas is.
[/quote]
Thats the exact reason i would have him ahead of Lucas.
Two points of view - one complains that our young players get shipped off on loan and then are sold and never get a chance at Anfield to show what they can do.
The other seems to instantly write off young players after a few performances and stick rigidly to that point of view, even in the face of improvement.
Lucas is young and improving, so is Insua, so is Ngog - yet certain posters never have a good word for them. Its very rare that you get a young player who instantly and consistently performs with class. We were spoiled with Gerrard and seem to have held young players to unfairly high standards ever since.
I don't know how good Lucas will turn out to be - but I do know that people who cannot find a good word do not offer the balanced viewpoint which makes them worth reading.
The other seems to instantly write off young players after a few performances and stick rigidly to that point of view, even in the face of improvement.
Lucas is young and improving, so is Insua, so is Ngog - yet certain posters never have a good word for them. Its very rare that you get a young player who instantly and consistently performs with class. We were spoiled with Gerrard and seem to have held young players to unfairly high standards ever since.
I don't know how good Lucas will turn out to be - but I do know that people who cannot find a good word do not offer the balanced viewpoint which makes them worth reading.
Mersey86, what these posters are complaining about, though, is the fact that some of these youngsters show little or no sign of potential. While we've recently seen Buchtmann shipped off for a paltry sum despite rave reviews without having a chance to show if he's good enough.
S
Squiggles
Guest
[quote author=Mersey86 link=topic=38907.msg1054410#msg1054410 date=1266083876]
Two points of view - one complains that our young players get shipped off on loan and then are sold and never get a chance at Anfield to show what they can do.
The other seems to instantly write off young players after a few performances and stick rigidly to that point of view, even in the face of improvement.
Lucas is young and improving, so is Insua, so is Ngog - yet certain posters never have a good word for them. Its very rare that you get a young player who instantly and consistently performs with class. We were spoiled with Gerrard and seem to have held young players to unfairly high standards ever since.
I don't know how good Lucas will turn out to be - but I do know that people who cannot find a good word do not offer the balanced viewpoint which makes them worth reading.
[/quote]
As fans, we don't expect our reservists to 'consistently perform with class', certainly not to Gerrard proportions as you seem to suggest. There's barely been anyone coming through since him anyway. You want these players to show glimpses of talent, you allow for inconsistency and you persevere if they've got the right attitude and untapped talent. I don't believe Lucas has this talent to be worth such an investment in time.
'Improving' doesn't mean they'll improve enough. People throw the term around like it's the answer to all wrongs - but it doesn't mean their current level is acceptable to be relied upon for Liverpool football club.
Two points of view - one complains that our young players get shipped off on loan and then are sold and never get a chance at Anfield to show what they can do.
The other seems to instantly write off young players after a few performances and stick rigidly to that point of view, even in the face of improvement.
Lucas is young and improving, so is Insua, so is Ngog - yet certain posters never have a good word for them. Its very rare that you get a young player who instantly and consistently performs with class. We were spoiled with Gerrard and seem to have held young players to unfairly high standards ever since.
I don't know how good Lucas will turn out to be - but I do know that people who cannot find a good word do not offer the balanced viewpoint which makes them worth reading.
[/quote]
As fans, we don't expect our reservists to 'consistently perform with class', certainly not to Gerrard proportions as you seem to suggest. There's barely been anyone coming through since him anyway. You want these players to show glimpses of talent, you allow for inconsistency and you persevere if they've got the right attitude and untapped talent. I don't believe Lucas has this talent to be worth such an investment in time.
'Improving' doesn't mean they'll improve enough. People throw the term around like it's the answer to all wrongs - but it doesn't mean their current level is acceptable to be relied upon for Liverpool football club.
[quote author=Halmeister link=topic=38907.msg1054401#msg1054401 date=1266083063]
That was my point. I couldn't really decide. I've seen Sissoko dominate games for us due to his sheer athleticism and power. Lucas will never do that. And he will never be creative enough to dominate it technically.
Sissoko for all his faults at least stamped his authority on a few games for us. I didn't mind him. He is what he is. I don't know what Lucas is.
[/quote]
Nah, that's madness. That's akin to Newcastle fans saying they liked having a side that can win 3-0 one week & get beaten 3-0 the next rather than a side leaking no goals & winning boringly.
Lucas is above average but bloody consistent. That's better than maddeningly inconsistent with glimpses of brilliance.
That was my point. I couldn't really decide. I've seen Sissoko dominate games for us due to his sheer athleticism and power. Lucas will never do that. And he will never be creative enough to dominate it technically.
Sissoko for all his faults at least stamped his authority on a few games for us. I didn't mind him. He is what he is. I don't know what Lucas is.
[/quote]
Nah, that's madness. That's akin to Newcastle fans saying they liked having a side that can win 3-0 one week & get beaten 3-0 the next rather than a side leaking no goals & winning boringly.
Lucas is above average but bloody consistent. That's better than maddeningly inconsistent with glimpses of brilliance.
To destroy the opposition practically on his own. Barca was a case in point, and for long stretches of the second half of the 2006 Cup Final against the Hammers Momo was practically the only Liverpool outfield player, Stevie included, who could raise a gallop. If Lucas had been playing in those games instead of Momo we'd have lost them, because even his best is not good enough. THAT's the point.
What JJ said
Which is obvious
Which is obvious
[quote author=FoxForceFive link=topic=38907.msg1054435#msg1054435 date=1266090726]
[quote author=Halmeister link=topic=38907.msg1054401#msg1054401 date=1266083063]
That was my point. I couldn't really decide. I've seen Sissoko dominate games for us due to his sheer athleticism and power. Lucas will never do that. And he will never be creative enough to dominate it technically.
Sissoko for all his faults at least stamped his authority on a few games for us. I didn't mind him. He is what he is. I don't know what Lucas is.
[/quote]
Nah, that's madness. That's akin to Newcastle fans saying they liked having a side that can win 3-0 one week & get beaten 3-0 the next rather than a side leaking no goals & winning boringly.
Lucas is above average but bloody consistent. That's better than maddeningly inconsistent with glimpses of brilliance.
[/quote]
Nah that's not really the point I was trying to make. I just think that Sissoko's athleticism can be and was more effective than whatever it is Lucas does. Don't get me wrong, I never once thought he was good enough for Liverpool, but at least the opposition knows they're in a game with him. There have been quite a few times this season I've forgotten Lucas was playing. For a centre midfielder that's unforgivable.
And what the Judge said, that's the argument pro-Sissoko. I didn't say I'd pick Sissoko, by the way. 😛
[quote author=Halmeister link=topic=38907.msg1054401#msg1054401 date=1266083063]
That was my point. I couldn't really decide. I've seen Sissoko dominate games for us due to his sheer athleticism and power. Lucas will never do that. And he will never be creative enough to dominate it technically.
Sissoko for all his faults at least stamped his authority on a few games for us. I didn't mind him. He is what he is. I don't know what Lucas is.
[/quote]
Nah, that's madness. That's akin to Newcastle fans saying they liked having a side that can win 3-0 one week & get beaten 3-0 the next rather than a side leaking no goals & winning boringly.
Lucas is above average but bloody consistent. That's better than maddeningly inconsistent with glimpses of brilliance.
[/quote]
Nah that's not really the point I was trying to make. I just think that Sissoko's athleticism can be and was more effective than whatever it is Lucas does. Don't get me wrong, I never once thought he was good enough for Liverpool, but at least the opposition knows they're in a game with him. There have been quite a few times this season I've forgotten Lucas was playing. For a centre midfielder that's unforgivable.
And what the Judge said, that's the argument pro-Sissoko. I didn't say I'd pick Sissoko, by the way. 😛
Is Sissoko younger than Lucas, by the way? Just wondering. They've got to be around a similar age. What was he, 19 when we signed him?
*Edit* Sissoko has just turned 25, Lucas has just turned 23.
*Edit* Sissoko has just turned 25, Lucas has just turned 23.
Sissoko served a purpose. Lucas, to the best of my knowledge, does not.
Momo looked like he was going to be an amazing player and then since that eye injury, just lost it.
[quote author=Brendan link=topic=38907.msg1054446#msg1054446 date=1266091967]
What JJ said
Which is obvious
[/quote]
Yeah, for what, one game out of every 25? Lucas may be nothing more than an average Premiership player but he's bloody consistent & can actually pass the ball, which 95% of the time Momo couldnt ever do.
What JJ said
Which is obvious
[/quote]
Yeah, for what, one game out of every 25? Lucas may be nothing more than an average Premiership player but he's bloody consistent & can actually pass the ball, which 95% of the time Momo couldnt ever do.
S
Squiggles
Guest
As Doc points out, Sissoko had a superb first 18 months.
For all the slagging off of Momo on this thread, there's a reason he was included in the 'best midfield in the world' song.
For all the slagging off of Momo on this thread, there's a reason he was included in the 'best midfield in the world' song.
I think it's right that Momo and Masher would be an even worse combo than Lucas- Momo was a player that was a destroyer, like masher. Before Momo's LFC career fell apart we all thought he was absolute steal for 8 mill or whatever we paid for him. Even fans of Lucas, and I afford him respect as a decent player, would never consider that he represented a bargain at 6m.
[quote author=FoxForceFive link=topic=38907.msg1054456#msg1054456 date=1266095417]
[quote author=Brendan link=topic=38907.msg1054446#msg1054446 date=1266091967]
What JJ said
Which is obvious
[/quote]
Yeah, for what, one game out of every 25? Lucas may be nothing more than an average Premiership player but he's bloody consistent & can actually pass the ball, which 95% of the time Momo couldnt ever do.
[/quote]
He's mediocre at best, Foxy. His tackling is NOT consistent, decent one minute but p!sspoor the next. His passing is practically always sideways or backwards and never comes to anything (even Masher - who, Heaven knows, is no master of the passing game - creates more). WTF is the use of that kind of consistency? And his forward runs are laughable - it's the safest bet in football that we'll fail to score if he's on the end of the final ball of an attack. Momo at his worst was no less use than Lucas at his best, and Momo at his best was massively the more effective of the two.
[quote author=Brendan link=topic=38907.msg1054446#msg1054446 date=1266091967]
What JJ said
Which is obvious
[/quote]
Yeah, for what, one game out of every 25? Lucas may be nothing more than an average Premiership player but he's bloody consistent & can actually pass the ball, which 95% of the time Momo couldnt ever do.
[/quote]
He's mediocre at best, Foxy. His tackling is NOT consistent, decent one minute but p!sspoor the next. His passing is practically always sideways or backwards and never comes to anything (even Masher - who, Heaven knows, is no master of the passing game - creates more). WTF is the use of that kind of consistency? And his forward runs are laughable - it's the safest bet in football that we'll fail to score if he's on the end of the final ball of an attack. Momo at his worst was no less use than Lucas at his best, and Momo at his best was massively the more effective of the two.
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=38907.msg1054438#msg1054438 date=1266091134]
I'd have Lucas over Momo everyday of the week. Momo couldn't fucking pass. What's the point of a midfielder who can't pass.
[/quote]
😱 😱 😱 😱 😱 😱
what are you on?
I'd have Lucas over Momo everyday of the week. Momo couldn't fucking pass. What's the point of a midfielder who can't pass.
[/quote]
😱 😱 😱 😱 😱 😱
what are you on?
I can kinda understand why Lucas has been scoring well in this player of the season competition. Despite Bren's infectious anti-Lucas hysteria, he has been a very solid performer all season, in a season when our best players have either been largely injured or off form. He's never going to be a Souness, and he's definitely not good enough on current evidence to be first pick in a Liverpool midfield that is going to win the Premier League. This forum has been especially hard on Lucas, but his high rating on other fora is symptomatic of how poor we've been this year.
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=38907.msg1054419#msg1054419 date=1266085737]
As fans, we don't expect our reservists to 'consistently perform with class', certainly not to Gerrard proportions as you seem to suggest. There's barely been anyone coming through since him anyway. You want these players to show glimpses of talent, you allow for inconsistency and you persevere if they've got the right attitude and untapped talent. I don't believe Lucas has this talent to be worth such an investment in time.
'Improving' doesn't mean they'll improve enough. People throw the term around like it's the answer to all wrongs - but it doesn't mean their current level is acceptable to be relied upon for Liverpool football club.
[/quote]
Thanks for the answer. My viewpoint is limited. I have six children and seldom have the time to watch a full game - but when I do (Birmingham, Portsmouth, Bolton away) I'm always struck by the fact that Lucas looks like a decent player and I cannot understand where the vilification comes from.
Not worthy of being a Liverpool player is one frequent comment. We had players like that in the 70s and 80s when we won everything - Barry Venison, Stig Bjornebye, Kevin MacDonald, David Hodgson to name some of the more egregious examples, but I also wonder at the judgment Paul Walsh, Sammy Lee or John Wark might get given the intolerance of the modern supporter.
That Liverpool are doing poorly this season is down to Torres and Gerrard injuries and Gerrard's failure to hit his usual heights when he has been fit. There are people who will blame it all on the youngsters and that's the sort of attitude which I think holds back progress of the parts of the team we should really be encouraging. The fact that they are young should mean we give them a little extra tolerance. And if we can't give them that we should stop asking ourselves why young players don't succeed at Anfield.
As fans, we don't expect our reservists to 'consistently perform with class', certainly not to Gerrard proportions as you seem to suggest. There's barely been anyone coming through since him anyway. You want these players to show glimpses of talent, you allow for inconsistency and you persevere if they've got the right attitude and untapped talent. I don't believe Lucas has this talent to be worth such an investment in time.
'Improving' doesn't mean they'll improve enough. People throw the term around like it's the answer to all wrongs - but it doesn't mean their current level is acceptable to be relied upon for Liverpool football club.
[/quote]
Thanks for the answer. My viewpoint is limited. I have six children and seldom have the time to watch a full game - but when I do (Birmingham, Portsmouth, Bolton away) I'm always struck by the fact that Lucas looks like a decent player and I cannot understand where the vilification comes from.
Not worthy of being a Liverpool player is one frequent comment. We had players like that in the 70s and 80s when we won everything - Barry Venison, Stig Bjornebye, Kevin MacDonald, David Hodgson to name some of the more egregious examples, but I also wonder at the judgment Paul Walsh, Sammy Lee or John Wark might get given the intolerance of the modern supporter.
That Liverpool are doing poorly this season is down to Torres and Gerrard injuries and Gerrard's failure to hit his usual heights when he has been fit. There are people who will blame it all on the youngsters and that's the sort of attitude which I think holds back progress of the parts of the team we should really be encouraging. The fact that they are young should mean we give them a little extra tolerance. And if we can't give them that we should stop asking ourselves why young players don't succeed at Anfield.
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=38907.msg1054465#msg1054465 date=1266098714]
... Momo at his worst was no less use than Lucas at his best....
[/quote]
JJ, you know I love ya, and someday I will take you up on that offer to crash on your couch, but that is complete and utter nonsense, my friend.
... Momo at his worst was no less use than Lucas at his best....
[/quote]
JJ, you know I love ya, and someday I will take you up on that offer to crash on your couch, but that is complete and utter nonsense, my friend.
[quote author=Mersey86 link=topic=38907.msg1054486#msg1054486 date=1266120596]
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=38907.msg1054419#msg1054419 date=1266085737]
As fans, we don't expect our reservists to 'consistently perform with class', certainly not to Gerrard proportions as you seem to suggest. There's barely been anyone coming through since him anyway. You want these players to show glimpses of talent, you allow for inconsistency and you persevere if they've got the right attitude and untapped talent. I don't believe Lucas has this talent to be worth such an investment in time.
'Improving' doesn't mean they'll improve enough. People throw the term around like it's the answer to all wrongs - but it doesn't mean their current level is acceptable to be relied upon for Liverpool football club.
[/quote]
Thanks for the answer. My viewpoint is limited. I have six children and seldom have the time to watch a full game - but when I do (Birmingham, Portsmouth, Bolton away) I'm always struck by the fact that Lucas looks like a decent player and I cannot understand where the vilification comes from.
Not worthy of being a Liverpool player is one frequent comment. We had players like that in the 70s and 80s when we won everything - Barry Venison, Stig Bjornebye, Kevin MacDonald, David Hodgson to name some of the more egregious examples, but I also wonder at the judgment Paul Walsh, Sammy Lee or John Wark might get given the intolerance of the modern supporter.
That Liverpool are doing poorly this season is down to Torres and Gerrard injuries and Gerrard's failure to hit his usual heights when he has been fit. There are people who will blame it all on the youngsters and that's the sort of attitude which I think holds back progress of the parts of the team we should really be encouraging. The fact that they are young should mean we give them a little extra tolerance. And if we can't give them that we should stop asking ourselves why young players don't succeed at Anfield.
[/quote]
Wasn't John Wark our top scorer and POTY two seasons on the bounce?
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=38907.msg1054419#msg1054419 date=1266085737]
As fans, we don't expect our reservists to 'consistently perform with class', certainly not to Gerrard proportions as you seem to suggest. There's barely been anyone coming through since him anyway. You want these players to show glimpses of talent, you allow for inconsistency and you persevere if they've got the right attitude and untapped talent. I don't believe Lucas has this talent to be worth such an investment in time.
'Improving' doesn't mean they'll improve enough. People throw the term around like it's the answer to all wrongs - but it doesn't mean their current level is acceptable to be relied upon for Liverpool football club.
[/quote]
Thanks for the answer. My viewpoint is limited. I have six children and seldom have the time to watch a full game - but when I do (Birmingham, Portsmouth, Bolton away) I'm always struck by the fact that Lucas looks like a decent player and I cannot understand where the vilification comes from.
Not worthy of being a Liverpool player is one frequent comment. We had players like that in the 70s and 80s when we won everything - Barry Venison, Stig Bjornebye, Kevin MacDonald, David Hodgson to name some of the more egregious examples, but I also wonder at the judgment Paul Walsh, Sammy Lee or John Wark might get given the intolerance of the modern supporter.
That Liverpool are doing poorly this season is down to Torres and Gerrard injuries and Gerrard's failure to hit his usual heights when he has been fit. There are people who will blame it all on the youngsters and that's the sort of attitude which I think holds back progress of the parts of the team we should really be encouraging. The fact that they are young should mean we give them a little extra tolerance. And if we can't give them that we should stop asking ourselves why young players don't succeed at Anfield.
[/quote]
Wasn't John Wark our top scorer and POTY two seasons on the bounce?
[quote author=FoxForceFive link=topic=38907.msg1054052#msg1054052 date=1265985088]
Lucas is nowehere near as bad as we'd be led to believe, but he's a limited footballer who is showing some signs of adjusting to this league at last. That's it. No more, no less.
The main drive behind that board is the fact he's easily our most consistent (outfield) player, always having an average game, whilst everyone else is either below average or alternately shit then good.
[/quote]
Can somebody out there please write a program that scans the entire internet for threads that contain the word "Lucas" and then, upon finding them, auto-populate this message whilst simultaniously locking the thread..?
Lucas is nowehere near as bad as we'd be led to believe, but he's a limited footballer who is showing some signs of adjusting to this league at last. That's it. No more, no less.
The main drive behind that board is the fact he's easily our most consistent (outfield) player, always having an average game, whilst everyone else is either below average or alternately shit then good.
[/quote]
Can somebody out there please write a program that scans the entire internet for threads that contain the word "Lucas" and then, upon finding them, auto-populate this message whilst simultaniously locking the thread..?
Some good posts in here. Nice to see the lad getting a smidge of love if for nothing else other than working hard to help us during our shittest season in years.
I quite like Lucas, I'm not rawkesque in my fanhood by any means, but I'm impressed by how hard he tries and I think he has Improved all season. Mascherano has been our best player, but Lucas is top 3 so fair play to him.
And yeah most of the rhetoric on here generally is bollocks.
I quite like Lucas, I'm not rawkesque in my fanhood by any means, but I'm impressed by how hard he tries and I think he has Improved all season. Mascherano has been our best player, but Lucas is top 3 so fair play to him.
And yeah most of the rhetoric on here generally is bollocks.
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