Lucas is our best player this season

[Judge Jules]

[quote author=Whaddapie link=topic=38907.msg1054489#msg1054489 date=1266122102]
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=38907.msg1054465#msg1054465 date=1266098714]

... Momo at his worst was no less use than Lucas at his best....

[/quote]

JJ, you know I love ya, and someday I will take you up on that offer to crash on your couch, but that is complete and utter nonsense, my friend.
[/quote]

God love ya, mo chara. Bring the family and we'll even find you a couple of beds. ;D

I accept there are two views on this and that my statement seems extreme, but I'm unrepentant about it. To repeat the question I put to Foxy: what the forkhandle is the use of Lucas' passes not being misdirected if they never, and I do mean never, lead to anything? What, similarly, is the use of him getting on the end of passes and crosses if he snarls up the opportunity EVERY SINGLE TIME? Even Momo managed the (very) occasional goal. As for tackling, even when Momo's was wayward he at least made himself a confounded nuisance to the opposition whereas Lucas, whose tackling has admittedly come on from last season, will still win the ball one minute but be swatted off it like some fruitfly the next.

 

[spider-Neil]

I thought momo before the eye injury was excellent but after the eye injury he was all over the fucking place.
his performance at the nou camp was fucking incredible.

 

[FoxForceFive]

[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=38907.msg1054541#msg1054541 date=1266149409]
I thought momo before the eye injury was excellent but after the eye injury he was all over the fucking place.
his performance at the nou camp was fucking incredible.
[/quote]

"Excellent"?

Time has clearly been kind to Momo. He had some very good games occasionally before his eye injury. Most of the time he was gash though. After his eue injury he was gash 100% of the time though.

 

[Mamma Mia]

[quote author=FPI Project link=topic=38907.msg1054467#msg1054467 date=1266099243]
99% of Lucas's passes are backwards.. FACT
[/quote]

Arsenal (a):
23 passes
19 successful
3 backwards (including 1 cutback in the oppositions penalty area)

Everton (h):
19 passes
16 successful
2 backwards

Bolton (h):
13 passes
10 successful
4 backwards

Wolves (a):
26 passes
21 successful
4 backwards

Tottenham (h):
25 passes
15 successful
2 backwards

Stoke (a):
35 passes
25 successful
3 backwards

That's as far back as I'm bothered to go. Suffice to say you're talking outta your arse.

 

[manwithnoname]

Yeah, he's a brilliant passer. He's better than Alonso or Gerrard. He's probably one of the best passers in the league. He's a great player.

 

[Whaddapie]

Actually, no mate... He's a cunty, cuntish, cuntable, cuntilious, cuntoxious, cuntacular cunt of a cunt's cunt. And he's the worst player who has ever played football. Ever. Of all time. On any planet. In any universe. Real or fictional.

 

[Oncy]

[quote author=Mamma Mia link=topic=38907.msg1054599#msg1054599 date=1266173547]
[quote author=FPI Project link=topic=38907.msg1054467#msg1054467 date=1266099243]
99% of Lucas's passes are backwards.. FACT
[/quote]

Arsenal (a):
23 passes
19 successful
3 backwards (including 1 cutback in the oppositions penalty area)

Everton (h):
19 passes
16 successful
2 backwards

Bolton (h):
13 passes
10 successful
4 backwards

Wolves (a):
26 passes
21 successful
4 backwards

Tottenham (h):
25 passes
15 successful
2 backwards

Stoke (a):
35 passes
25 successful
3 backwards

That's as far back as I'm bothered to go. Suffice to say you're talking outta your arse.
[/quote]Hmmmm that's pissed on a few peoples fireworks.
Good work.

 

[Judge Jules]

[quote author=Whaddapie link=topic=38907.msg1054605#msg1054605 date=1266177214]
Actually, no mate... He's a cunty, cuntish, cuntable, cuntilious, cuntoxious, cuntacular cunt of a cunt's cunt. And he's the worst player who has ever played football. Ever. Of all time. On any planet. In any universe. Real or fictional.
[/quote]

I bet that sounds great in a Dub accent. 😉

 

[Farkmaster]

I posted a comparison of Mascherano and Lucas passing a while back.

Lucas has pushed on from there, but not such that Mascherano and Lucas are a viable midfield partnership. Lucas gets up the field more now, especially on the right, and it would be impossible for him to be any less ambitious than he was, so he's improved there as well.

So he's marginally more involved in attacking play. It's a shame he offers very little when he gets there. Almost no goal threat, nowhere near the incisive play, goal threat, or assists of Kuyt, Benayoun, Gerrard.

He's nowhere near as good at DM as Mascherano, and few are, which affords him the freedom to do what exactly?

 

[Whaddapie]

[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=38907.msg1054611#msg1054611 date=1266178528]
[quote author=Whaddapie link=topic=38907.msg1054605#msg1054605 date=1266177214]
Actually, no mate... He's a cunty, cuntish, cuntable, cuntilious, cuntoxious, cuntacular cunt of a cunt's cunt. And he's the worst player who has ever played football. Ever. Of all time. On any planet. In any universe. Real or fictional.
[/quote]

I bet that sounds great in a Dub accent. 😉
[/quote]

Bleedin' rui it duz, ye bollix.

 

[Stulikesdrums]

[quote author=Whaddapie link=topic=38907.msg1054627#msg1054627 date=1266179977]
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=38907.msg1054611#msg1054611 date=1266178528]
[quote author=Whaddapie link=topic=38907.msg1054605#msg1054605 date=1266177214]
Actually, no mate... He's a cunty, cuntish, cuntable, cuntilious, cuntoxious, cuntacular cunt of a cunt's cunt. And he's the worst player who has ever played football. Ever. Of all time. On any planet. In any universe. Real or fictional.
[/quote]

I bet that sounds great in a Dub accent. 😉
[/quote]

Bleedin' rui it duz, ye bollix.
[/quote]

Ha ha ha.

 

[manwithnoname]

'All Lucas does is pass'

 

[Stulikesdrums]

[quote author=Mamma Mia link=topic=38907.msg1054599#msg1054599 date=1266173547]
[quote author=FPI Project link=topic=38907.msg1054467#msg1054467 date=1266099243]
99% of Lucas's passes are backwards.. FACT
[/quote]

Arsenal (a):
23 passes
19 successful
3 backwards (including 1 cutback in the oppositions penalty area)

Everton (h):
19 passes
16 successful
2 backwards

Bolton (h):
13 passes
10 successful
4 backwards

Wolves (a):
26 passes
21 successful
4 backwards

Tottenham (h):
25 passes
15 successful
2 backwards

Stoke (a):
35 passes
25 successful
3 backwards

That's as far back as I'm bothered to go. Suffice to say you're talking outta your arse.
[/quote]

How many went forward?

 

[keniget]

What a stupid, pointless discussion.

Who cares how many were backwards, sideways or forwards.

Lucas isn't creative in his use of the ball, which might be forgiven if he was a little less ponderous in possession, but then he's not alone in that respect unfortunately.

 

[Ryan]

[quote author=Brendan link=topic=38907.msg1054600#msg1054600 date=1266173658]
Yeah, he's a brilliant passer. He's better than Alonso or Gerrard. He's probably one of the best passers in the league. He's a great player.


[/quote]

Stop being a bellend.

Lucas gives the ball away less than any other player in our team. That's a fact.

 

[darkstarexodus]

[quote author=keniget link=topic=38907.msg1054654#msg1054654 date=1266184703]
What a stupid, pointless discussion.

Who cares how many were backwards, sideways or forwards.

Lucas isn't creative in his use of the ball, which might be forgiven if he was a little less ponderous in possession, but then he's not alone in that respect unfortunately.
[/quote]

I'll x2 this.

 

[Mamma Mia]

[quote author=darkstarexodus link=topic=38907.msg1054676#msg1054676 date=1266207424]
[quote author=keniget link=topic=38907.msg1054654#msg1054654 date=1266184703]
What a stupid, pointless discussion.

Who cares how many were backwards, sideways or forwards.

Lucas isn't creative in his use of the ball, which might be forgiven if he was a little less ponderous in possession, but then he's not alone in that respect unfortunately.
[/quote]

I'll x2 this.
[/quote]

I'd pretty much agree with that too. The point of those stats were to try and stop people simply making up bollocks to attack Lucas with.

 

[Ossi]

[quote author=FoxForceFive link=topic=38907.msg1054059#msg1054059 date=1265985550]
[quote author=Gerry_A_Trick link=topic=38907.msg1054055#msg1054055 date=1265985354]
Take the Wolves home game for example:

1. Lucas.......................................214 votes...................................5 points
2. Benayoun................................178 votes...................................3 points
3. Gerrard.....................................171 votes...................................1 point.

4. Aquilani....................................116 votes...................................Unlucky
5. Insua..........................................97 votes.......................................Zero.


TLW had it as above.
ST had Aquilani 3rd.
YNWA had Gerrard as MOM, with Lucas and then Benayoun.
Est1892 had Insua as MOM, with Lucas then Benayoun.
6CM had Gerrard as MOM, with Aquilani then Insua, ...then Benayoun, ...then Carragher, ...then Torres, ...then Agger, ....

Or Birmingham at home:

1. Johnson..............................655 votes.........................5 points
2. Ngog...................................309 votes.........................3 points
3. Mascherano.........................182 votes..........................1 point.
4. Lucas..................................130 votes..........................Zero.

Glen extends his lead in his debut season.
All sites agreed with the above except 6CM who had Mascher 2nd and Ngog 3rd.
There was not one single vote for Lucas on 6CM in contrast to him finishing a close 4th on each of the other sites.

[/quote]

hahaha, that definitely suggests we're overly harsh on him.
[/quote]

I see it as proof that the members of this site knows their football.

 

[Ryan]

[quote author=Brendan link=topic=38907.msg1054049#msg1054049 date=1265984874]
Words fail, they really do


[/quote]

We should be so lucky.

 

[Piedro]

[quote author=Brendan link=topic=38907.msg1054641#msg1054641 date=1266181540]
'All Lucas does is pass'


[/quote]

= Lucas Shits Passes

 

[Whaddapie]

Lucas has developed into a decent player this season. No more, no less. And for all his improvement, he'd still not sniff the team in either Manchester side, or Chelsea or Arsenal.

The fact that he has been amoung our more consistent players this season speaks more to the form of others, or lack thereof... With Lucas in the conversation for our most improved / consistent player of the year so far, we're struggling to make 4th, and we were embarassed in the European Cup. Last season, with the real stars of this team firing on all cylinders for much of the season, we almost won the league and made the last 8 in the European Cup, humiliating the biggest neam in football along the way.

Nobody should need to be persuaded on this point... It's hardly subjective - The proof is in the pudding. Look at the league table. Look at who we play on Thursday night. Undeniable proof that if Lucas is consistently amoung our better performers, we're in serious trouble.

And though that's not his fault, it is what it is.

 

[Ryan]

If Fernando Torres had been fit, we'd still be in the Champions League.

And for all people's clamouring about Lucas' form being symptomatic of our malaise, do remember that he played 40 games last season too.

Our failings this year have been as a result of many many things, the most telling of which have been injuries to key players. Lucas' form this year has been a positive, so why people are so keen to dampen this is confusing to me.

 

[Whaddapie]

My point is not to blame Lucas for this season, and I'm not doing so here...

I'm pointing out that, for all of his improvements, which I have never disputed, the fact remains that if he is amoung our best players, it means that the likes of Torres, Gerrard, Yossi, etc... are NOT playing well (or playing at all), and therefore, we're going to struggle.

I'm highlighting that he's NOT utter rubbish, like many claim, but nor is he a player who will carry us, when the real stars of this team will not or cannot.

As far as last season is concerned, he was clearly not up to it (again, not his fault), but Rafa's determination to play him, week in and week out, when better players were available and unused on the bench is, for me, a large part of why we're not champions now.

 

[Ryan]

I know where you're coming from Whad, and my post wasn't aimed at you directly.

Anyway, I don't think there are poeple out there that would consider him to be "among our best players" because he isn't. the compilation of votes for him are probably as a result of various things, foremost of which has been his improvement and good form. If all of our players played to their potential every week, he wouldn't figure in too many Top 3's.

 

[Biggus Dickus]

Spot on Ryan. He shouldn't be getting so many votes as others should be playing better. However that hasn't stopped a large dose of 6CM members calling him shit, useless when he has shown a good level of improvement in his play and been consistent all season. The season has been full of shit players, shit performances and negatives in general but it seems it just easier to blame Lucas when his progression should be seen as one of the few positives.

 

[Vlads Quiff]

[quote author=Ryan link=topic=38907.msg1054929#msg1054929 date=1266292357]
I know where you're coming from Whad, and my post wasn't aimed at you directly.

Anyway, I don't think there are poeple out there that would consider him to be "among our best players" because he isn't. the compilation of votes for him are probably as a result of various things, foremost of which has been his improvement and good form. If all of our players played to their potential every week, he wouldn't figure in too many Top 3's.
[/quote]

Is the right answer, as I said early doors, he has been consistent, not brilliant but consistent, has played as many games as most, and our key players have either been off form or out injured for long chunks.

regards

regards

 

[Peatcheo]

Lucas shits passes hahaha

 

[spider-Neil]

[quote author=Mamma Mia link=topic=38907.msg1054599#msg1054599 date=1266173547]
[quote author=FPI Project link=topic=38907.msg1054467#msg1054467 date=1266099243]
99% of Lucas's passes are backwards.. FACT
[/quote]

Arsenal (a):
23 passes
19 successful
3 backwards (including 1 cutback in the oppositions penalty area)

Everton (h):
19 passes
16 successful
2 backwards

Bolton (h):
13 passes
10 successful
4 backwards

Wolves (a):
26 passes
21 successful
4 backwards

Tottenham (h):
25 passes
15 successful
2 backwards

Stoke (a):
35 passes
25 successful
3 backwards

That's as far back as I'm bothered to go. Suffice to say you're talking outta your arse.
[/quote]

ha ha OWNED!!
but as the saying goes; 'there are lies, damn lies and there are statistics'
and lucas' pass completion stats don't tell the whole story.

 

[Whitey85]

Sorry if im quiffing or anything but im not reading 8 pages of Lucas debate.

I don't often do the ratings thing myself. I find it a bit of a ballache because i never know whether to give the player a vote for how well hes performed by his own standards or how well hes performed as to what i expect from a Liverpool midfielder.

Id give Lucas a 6 or 7 over the course of the season for what i expect from him but a 3 or 4 for what i expect from a centre mid starting week in week out for Liverpool. If that makes any sense whatsoever?

 

[Vlads Quiff]

It's not that complicated Whitey
You vote for the players who played best 😉

regards