Lucas is our best player this season

[FoxForceFive]

[quote author=Peatcheo link=topic=38907.msg1054169#msg1054169 date=1266003797]
Some blurt in the pub:

"His most important attribute is his unique ability to keep the game flowing"


[/quote]

Which translates to 'he only makes easy passes, usually sideways or backwards'.

Which is rafa's philosophy, keep the ball at all cost, even if it means going backwards or sideways every time you get the ball.

 

[manwithnoname]

*anger building slowly*

 

[Peatcheo]

[quote author=Brendan link=topic=38907.msg1054171#msg1054171 date=1266004362]
*anger building slowly*
[/quote]

Judge Dredd is shite.

*prods*

 

[manwithnoname]

Another creep

 

[Oncy]

Oh dear.

 

[manwithnoname]

*icendiary*

 

[Peatcheo]

[quote author=Brendan link=topic=38907.msg1054198#msg1054198 date=1266011375]
*icendiary*


[/quote]

The straw that broke the camels back?

 

[manwithnoname]

That's another ten years in the iso-cubes, for lip

*nerds*

 

[Mike Hunt]

[quote author=FoxForceFive link=topic=38907.msg1054170#msg1054170 date=1266004296]
[quote author=Peatcheo link=topic=38907.msg1054169#msg1054169 date=1266003797]
Some blurt in the pub:

"His most important attribute is his unique ability to keep the game flowing"


[/quote]

Which translates to 'he only makes easy passes, usually sideways or backwards'.

Which is rafa's philosophy, keep the ball at all cost, even if it means going backwards or sideways every time you get the ball.
[/quote]
I wonder why he got shot of Mr. Sideways (Didi).

 

[SaintGeorge67]

Didi was phenomenal.

 

[ILD]

I miss Didi.

 

[Mike Hunt]

[quote author=SaintGeorge67 link=topic=38907.msg1054224#msg1054224 date=1266015261]
Didi was phenomenal.
[/quote]
I agree.

He was never great going forward though. He always played the ball within 5 yards of himself and never did follow it up with an attacking run.

Rafa would like that very much. "Keeping The Shape".

Lol at Rafa. He doesn't "get" attacking football.

 

[Mersey86]

[quote author=Le Chacal link=topic=38907.msg1054090#msg1054090 date=1265989032]
The fact he's been tackling so much proves my point about lack of anticipation and vision of the game.
[/quote]
The jackal - football expert! Hah!!!!

 

[Biggus Dickus]

[quote author=Gerry_A_Trick link=topic=38907.msg1054048#msg1054048 date=1265984739]
What do people think of the fact that Lucas is rated our best player this season according to Morse's player of the season charts. Despite the fact that 6CM rarely if ever rates him in the top three players for each match. Are we, as a board, overly harsh on him, or are all the others clueless?


http://sixcrazyminutes.com/forums/index.php?topic=35007.msg1053635#msg1053635
[/quote]

Overly harsh definitely. He's been consistent all year and progressed very well this season. Most other sites compare him with Lucas from last season and see the progression he continues to make while it appears 6CM compares him to Alonso which is hardly fair.

I would add that Reina should be our POTS, he's been brilliant. Both he and Lucas have been our most consistent players by far.

 

[gareth_thomas]

i dont think Lucas ever plays that bad.. Mainly due to the fact he does very little that requires a bit of risk.

i cannot stand watching him as he is so BLAHHHH... BLAAAAHHH being so Dull, unimaginative, negative and so incredibly ordinary.

Its embarressing that he is in the starting 11 on a regular basis..

As a squaddie.. excellent.. but 1st choice.... *cries*

 

[Squiggles]

[quote author=Biggus Dickus link=topic=38907.msg1054272#msg1054272 date=1266027936]
[quote author=Gerry_A_Trick link=topic=38907.msg1054048#msg1054048 date=1265984739]
What do people think of the fact that Lucas is rated our best player this season according to Morse's player of the season charts. Despite the fact that 6CM rarely if ever rates him in the top three players for each match. Are we, as a board, overly harsh on him, or are all the others clueless?


http://sixcrazyminutes.com/forums/index.php?topic=35007.msg1053635#msg1053635
[/quote]

Overly harsh definitely. He's been consistent all year and progressed very well this season. Most other sites compare him with Lucas from last season and see the progression he continues to make while it appears 6CM compares him to Alonso which is hardly fair.

I would add that Reina should be our POTS, he's been brilliant. Both he and Lucas have been our most consistent players by far.
[/quote]

I don't think it's necessarily harsh to compare to him to Alonso. He's not that young any more and he's been settled in nicely by Benitez, far better than arguably more talented players. I'd rather our players were compared against those who were good enough to play for this football club than their own improvement. He may have improved his game slightly, but deep down most know it's not going to be enough.

 

[Judge Jules]

[quote author=Mike Hunt link=topic=38907.msg1054223#msg1054223 date=1266015138]
[quote author=FoxForceFive link=topic=38907.msg1054170#msg1054170 date=1266004296]
[quote author=Peatcheo link=topic=38907.msg1054169#msg1054169 date=1266003797]
Some blurt in the pub:

"His most important attribute is his unique ability to keep the game flowing"


[/quote]

Which translates to 'he only makes easy passes, usually sideways or backwards'.

Which is rafa's philosophy, keep the ball at all cost, even if it means going backwards or sideways every time you get the ball.
[/quote]
I wonder why he got shot of Mr. Sideways (Didi).
[/quote]

Didi got rid of Didi. It was the same situation as Sami's - player wants to stay but also wants to play, manager wants to keep him but can't offer him enough games.

 

[mark1975]

Whatever people think of Lucas, and however mediocre people think he is, he along with Masher is in the wrong partnership.

Everyone seems ready to throw sympathy in the direction of Mascherano because he has to play alongside a player that's doing the same role, well the same can be said for Lucas.

When Lucas or Masher have played alongside Alonso or Gerrard, or even (as was the case during Mashers recent ban), when Lucas played alongside Aquilani, we looked alot more balanced in the middle and Lucas was able to get on with his game.

Ideally, and given how Benitez is utilising him, he'd be an understudy to Mascherano, being rotated with him for lesser games or covering for fitness/suspension. The fact is he's been thrown into a pivotal position in the team at a young age and in a role that's not really the same as the one he was playing earlier in his career, in a different culture/league.

He's adapting, he's kept his head up (despite ferocious and often undeserved criticism) and has played well in big games too, if you consider his performances against United this season and last. He needs time and he needs a bit more protection from the gaffa than he's been afforded. He needs the patience of the fans that seem all too fucking ready (as per) to afford the likes of Spearing (even though half the said fans have barely seen him play) and he needs the same sympathy and indulgence that his 'three times the price' South American counterpart unconditionally seems to get.

 

[spider-Neil]

[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=38907.msg1054301#msg1054301 date=1266055775]
Whatever people think of Lucas, and however mediocre people think he is, he along with Masher is in the wrong partnership.

Everyone seems ready to throw sympathy in the direction of Mascherano because he has to play alongside a player that's doing the same role, well the same can be said for Lucas.

When Lucas or Masher have played alongside Alonso or Gerrard, or even (as was the case during Mashers recent ban), when Lucas played alongside Aquilani, we looked alot more balanced in the middle and Lucas was able to get on with his game.

Ideally, and given how Benitez is utilising him, he'd be an understudy to Mascherano, being rotated with him for lesser games or covering for fitness/suspension. The fact is he's been thrown into a pivotal position in the team at a young age and in a role that's not really the same as the one he was playing earlier in his career, in a different culture/league.

He's adapting, he's kept his head up (despite ferocious and often undeserved criticism) and has played well in big games too, if you consider his performances against United this season and last. He needs time and he needs a bit more protection from the gaffa than he's been afforded, he needs the patience the fans that seem all too fucking ready (as per) to afford the likes of Spearing (even though half the said fans have barely seen him play) and he needs the same sympathy and indulgence that his 'three times the price' South American counterpart unconditionally seems to get.
[/quote]

I think a lot of the blame can also be placed at the feet of the rest of the team who don't press forwards in numbers more despite having two holding midfielders

 

[Rosco]

I like the sound of having two molding midfielders in the side.

 

[spider-Neil]

[quote author=Rosco link=topic=38907.msg1054307#msg1054307 date=1266057380]
I like the sound of having two molding midfielders in the side.
[/quote]

😛

 

[Dreambeliever]

Yossi when not on the left has easily been our best player this season which says alot.

 

[Judge Jules]

Not sure I'd go that far, but we knew after the way he finished last season that he'd be important this time around, and so it's proved. He should have been playing behind the striker all season, with Gerrard back in CM alongside Masher, and I'd bet a sizeable sum that we'd not be scratching around for 4th then. Rafa has a lot to answer for in that respect.

 

[Halmeister]

Rafa has a lot to answer for in general for this whole season.

I can't be arsed slating Lucas anymore because it's been done to death, but when people say it's unfair to compare him to Alonso they're wrong.

They both play in the same position, we were successful with Alonso as first choice, not so much with Lucas.

People say he's young, but Alonso was 22 when he joined us and was twice the player then that Lucas will ever be.

A good game/season for Lucas is when he makes little or no mistakes. But he never takes any chances, or plays a forward ball over 15 yards.

He hasn't got a millionth of the creativity of Alonso and we as a team are suffering as a result.

The comparison to Alonso is the yardstick whether people like it or not. And he falls well short.

 

[mark1975]

[quote author=Halmeister link=topic=38907.msg1054386#msg1054386 date=1266081228]
Rafa has a lot to answer for in general for this whole season.

I can't be arsed slating Lucas anymore because it's been done to death, but when people say it's unfair to compare him to Alonso they're wrong.

They both play in the same position, we were successful with Alonso as first choice, not so much with Lucas.

People say he's young, but Alonso was 22 when he joined us and was twice the player then that Lucas will ever be.

A good game/season for Lucas is when he makes little or no mistakes. But he never takes any chances, or plays a forward ball over 15 yards.

He hasn't got a millionth of the creativity of Alonso and we as a team are suffering as a result.

The comparison to Alonso is the yardstick whether people like it or not. And he falls well short.
[/quote]

People can make all the comparisons they like, but Alonso cost near £14mm and was bought with the intention of having an immediate impact on the first team. Lucas cost half as much and was bought more as one for the future, but has been thrust into the limelight because of injury, sales and a lack of depth, all of which we can blame Benitez for, but comparisons are largely unfair, if you want to make comparisons look at Aquilani.

Anyway, Alonso was more established and already highly regarded when we bought him, regardless of age.

 

[Peatcheo]

[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=38907.msg1054387#msg1054387 date=1266081376]
[quote author=Halmeister link=topic=38907.msg1054386#msg1054386 date=1266081228]
Rafa has a lot to answer for in general for this whole season.

I can't be arsed slating Lucas anymore because it's been done to death, but when people say it's unfair to compare him to Alonso they're wrong.

They both play in the same position, we were successful with Alonso as first choice, not so much with Lucas.

People say he's young, but Alonso was 22 when he joined us and was twice the player then that Lucas will ever be.

A good game/season for Lucas is when he makes little or no mistakes. But he never takes any chances, or plays a forward ball over 15 yards.

He hasn't got a millionth of the creativity of Alonso and we as a team are suffering as a result.

The comparison to Alonso is the yardstick whether people like it or not. And he falls well short.
[/quote]

People can make all the comparisons they like, but Alonso cost near £14mm and was bought with the intention of having an immediate impact on the first team. Lucas cost half as much and was bought more as one for the future, but has been thrust into the limelight because of injury, sales and a lack of depth, all of which we can blame Benitez for, but comparisons are largely unfair, if you want to make comparisons look at Aquilani.

Anyway, Alonso was more established and already highly regarded when we bought him, regardless of age.
[/quote]

Lucas did come to us with a lot of accolades and a player of the year award, thats fairly highly regarded Mark.

 

[Halmeister]

Yeah I'm not saying Aquilani's looked a great signing either thus far. Time will tell.

I just think Lucas has had enough time now to show us what he actually does well. He's good at keeping possession and then passing it 5 yards. In 3? years I've never seen him offer anything else. That and work rate which I expect from every single player.

I just think now, at 23, he should be showing some signs of why we bought him for £6 million and why he is worthy of starting in arguably the most important area of the pitch. He isn't. He was heralded as a box-to-box midfielder who can score goals and has an eye for a pass. We haven't seen any of that.

Remember the Brazilian Gerrard comparison? Unfair I know, but you'd at least expect to see some dynamism, some athletic ability, some creativity. He's decent on the ball, but that's it.

I think there must be a better player in there somewhere. There MUST be. He looks nothing like the same Lucas as seen in youtube compilations (I know, I know) and he wouldn't win the same award as Kaka, Ronaldinho et al for nothing.


Whether it's down to tactics, Benitez restricting him, lack of confidence, or a combination of them all, I don't know. But after 3 years of mediocrity, and that is all it is, it's not good enough.

He shouldn't be anywhere near player of the season, the fact that he is shows how bad a season we're having.

I don't like bashing him because he does try hard, but that's my view on him.

My player of the season would be Reina I think, by the way.

 

[manwithnoname]

There's no point whatsoever in making specious comparisons between Alonso and Lucarse

One is a great player, the other isn't.

History will judge Lucas.

When LFC fans in 10, 20, 50 years put together all-time Liverpool teams, players like Molby, Gerrard, Hamann, Souness, Alonso, McMahon et al will be the ones they talk about for CM

Lucarse will be forgotten

Unless they start 'worst CM ever' threads, in which he will feature, along with Diao, Stewart, Biscan, Sissoko et al

 

[Squiggles]

There is no future in Lucas. He may take too much stick at times and its to his credit that he perseveres and at least offers consistency - but this is his third season in England and he's played a lot of games in a red shirt, so we should have some decent expectations of him. However, in that time we've only seen a marginal level of improvement and it's proving to not be good enough. Then it's made excruciating worse by being paired alongside one of the most specialised players on the planet.

Lucas is not going to develop the tenacity required to be a defensive midfielder in England, and there's no creativity in him whatsoever. He's a nothing footballer.

So you're just left wondering, what's the fucking point?

 

[keniget]

[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=38907.msg1054387#msg1054387 date=1266081376]
People can make all the comparisons they like, but Alonso cost near £14mm and was bought with the intention of having an immediate impact on the first team. Lucas cost half as much and was bought more as one for the future, but has been thrust into the limelight because of injury, sales and a lack of depth, all of which we can blame Benitez for, but comparisons are largely unfair, if you want to make comparisons look at Aquilani.

Anyway, Alonso was more established and already highly regarded when we bought him, regardless of age.
[/quote]

This is his third season at Liverpool, so it's hardly been a baptism of fire.

Anyways, that post kind of strengthens Hal's - we have a squaddie playing the role of a first teamer and we're suffering as a result. It's not Lucas' fault, it's Rafa's.