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Lucas is our best player this season

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[quote author=Fabio Alrighty-o link=topic=38907.msg1054066#msg1054066 date=1265986574]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=38907.msg1054065#msg1054065 date=1265986419]
[quote author=SaintGeorge67 link=topic=38907.msg1054058#msg1054058 date=1265985516]
It should be Mascherano or Reina by about 17 light years
[/quote]

mascherano has been no where near our best player this season.
[/quote]


.............why? He's been fantastic for us
[/quote]

Because neil's wedged securely up Alonso's jacksie and has somehow got hold of the ludicrous idea that, in order to justify his obsession, he has to slate Masher at the same time.

Masher hasn't been on top form all season, but he's a player who can and often does make a vital difference, especially in games against the top sides. Nobody will ever, EVER be able to say that about Lucas without being taken away by men in white coats. Somebody once said that a man who doesn't make a mistake doesn't make anything. That's Lucas right there.
 
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=38907.msg1054086#msg1054086 date=1265988624]
[quote author=Fabio Alrighty-o link=topic=38907.msg1054066#msg1054066 date=1265986574]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=38907.msg1054065#msg1054065 date=1265986419]
[quote author=SaintGeorge67 link=topic=38907.msg1054058#msg1054058 date=1265985516]
It should be Mascherano or Reina by about 17 light years
[/quote]

mascherano has been no where near our best player this season.
[/quote]


.............why? He's been fantastic for us
[/quote]

Because neil's wedged securely up Alonso's jacksie and has somehow got hold of the ludicrous idea that, in order to justify his obsession, he has to slate Masher at the same time.

Masher hasn't been on top form all season, but he's a player who can and often does make a vital difference, especially in games against the top sides. Nobody will ever, EVER be able to say that about Lucas without being taken away by men in white coats. Somebody once said that a man who doesn't make a mistake doesn't make anything. That's Lucas right there.
[/quote]

well thats silly. Lucas made loads of mistakes. But less so this season
 
[quote author=KopKing link=topic=38907.msg1054085#msg1054085 date=1265988510]
[quote author=Le Chacal link=topic=38907.msg1054081#msg1054081 date=1265988091]
That defies common sense.

I honestly think he's been one of the worst this season.
Only Kuyt was worse until Christmas I think. At least Deadly got a lot better lately. Unlike Lucas.
His main weakness is his lack of anticipation and vision of the game, the football game in England just goes too fast for him.
He's always late on challenges and thats why he gives so many free kicks away.
Our worst (starting) midfielder in the last decade IMO.
But again I cant blame him, he gives everything and only one clueless manager thought playing him and Mascher together would work.

Our best player this season is Reina...says it all really.
[/quote]

A timely post, which kind of proves my earlier point above. Lucas has been our most accurate passer and has made the most tackles and has the highest success rate of tackles won. So, if he's so bad, what are the others doing?
[/quote]
The fact he's been tackling so much proves my point about lack of anticipation and vision of the game.
Gerrard doesnt need to tackle because he knows where the ball will be.
These statistics mean fuck all. Most of his passes are going back to the central defender behind him
 
[quote author=Le Chacal link=topic=38907.msg1054090#msg1054090 date=1265989032]
[quote author=KopKing link=topic=38907.msg1054085#msg1054085 date=1265988510]
[quote author=Le Chacal link=topic=38907.msg1054081#msg1054081 date=1265988091]
That defies common sense.

I honestly think he's been one of the worst this season.
Only Kuyt was worse until Christmas I think. At least Deadly got a lot better lately. Unlike Lucas.
His main weakness is his lack of anticipation and vision of the game, the football game in England just goes too fast for him.
He's always late on challenges and thats why he gives so many free kicks away.
Our worst (starting) midfielder in the last decade IMO.
But again I cant blame him, he gives everything and only one clueless manager thought playing him and Mascher together would work.

Our best player this season is Reina...says it all really.
[/quote]

A timely post, which kind of proves my earlier point above. Lucas has been our most accurate passer and has made the most tackles and has the highest success rate of tackles won. So, if he's so bad, what are the others doing?
[/quote]
The fact he's been tackling so much proves my point about lack of anticipation and vision of the game.
Gerrard doesnt need to tackle because he knows where the ball will be.
These statistics mean fuck all. Most of his passes are going back to the central defender behind him
[/quote]

Why are you so angry about the stats? Gerrard makes less tackles because he plays further up the pitch bizarrely enough. He may be a better player but you can't level that critique at lucas. What about Mascher? He tackles loads and can't pass that well, yet he tackles less than lucas. So does that mean mascher loses the ball and lucas has to clear up his mistake?

and so what if lucas passes to defenders and mascher? He's not the most accurate forward passer is he? No, he's the most accurate passer.

They're only statistics based in context, so why get so wound up?
 
Far be it from me to agree with Chacal of all people, but those stats are NOT "in context". Yes, Lucas' tackling is better than it was, and others around him have let themselves down too often in that respect. Well, whoopee - he still can't turn it into anything positive. Practically all those "accurate passes" are sideways or backwards and, as for his attacking play, I genuinely reckon I would stand a better chance of scoring than he does when he gets forward.
 
[quote author=Le Chacal link=topic=38907.msg1054090#msg1054090 date=1265989032]
[quote author=KopKing link=topic=38907.msg1054085#msg1054085 date=1265988510]
[quote author=Le Chacal link=topic=38907.msg1054081#msg1054081 date=1265988091]
That defies common sense.

I honestly think he's been one of the worst this season.
Only Kuyt was worse until Christmas I think. At least Deadly got a lot better lately. Unlike Lucas.
His main weakness is his lack of anticipation and vision of the game, the football game in England just goes too fast for him.
He's always late on challenges and thats why he gives so many free kicks away.
Our worst (starting) midfielder in the last decade IMO.
But again I cant blame him, he gives everything and only one clueless manager thought playing him and Mascher together would work.

Our best player this season is Reina...says it all really.
[/quote]

A timely post, which kind of proves my earlier point above. Lucas has been our most accurate passer and has made the most tackles and has the highest success rate of tackles won. So, if he's so bad, what are the others doing?
[/quote]
The fact he's been tackling so much proves my point about lack of anticipation and vision of the game.
Gerrard doesnt need to tackle because he knows where the ball will be.
These statistics mean fuck all. Most of his passes are going back to the central defender behind him
[/quote]

I guess that must be the reason then. I should try to get Stevie to give me the Euromillions number tonight given that he apparently has precognitive abilities. Masher is a decent ball winner, does he also have suspect 'vision and anticipation?'

Its amazing how some people's views can become irrational when presented with facts that contradict them.
 
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=38907.msg1054095#msg1054095 date=1265989432]
Far be it from me to agree with Chacal of all people, but those stats are NOT "in context". Yes, Lucas' tackling is better than it was, and others around him have let themselves down too often in that respect. Well, whoopee - he still can't turn it into anything positive. Practically all those "accurate passes" are sideways or backwards and, as for his attacking play, I genuinely reckon I would stand a better chance of scoring than he does when he gets forward.
[/quote]

I'm not defending lucas! I'm just wondering why people hate those stats. Take them for what they are. Stats. They don't tell you his performance or effort. They tell you things that can be counted. Reina made few saves against arsenal and conceded one. Does that mean he's a poor keeper? No. It's not all based around goals:shots saved ratio. Same with lucas not being a good player because he can tackle and pass sideways. The only thing i'll give lucas credit for is being able to retain possession when he has it because he always finds an outlet with his passing. Shame it's always backwards
 
I think Churchill once said something like this, "the only stats I like are the ones I manipulate"
 
[quote author=Le Chacal link=topic=38907.msg1054100#msg1054100 date=1265989832]
It always goes to the same conclusion:

Rafa's supporters rate Lucas.

(most of) The others dont.
[/quote]

I'm in a quandry. I don't rate him, but he's not awful either. He's beginning to show some intelligent runs forward into attacking areas. He just needs some confidence and i think he could be solid. Not a guaranteed first teamer, but solid.

And i don't rate Rafa
 
[quote author=Fabio Alrighty-o link=topic=38907.msg1054102#msg1054102 date=1265989953]
[quote author=Le Chacal link=topic=38907.msg1054100#msg1054100 date=1265989832]
It always goes to the same conclusion:

Rafa's supporters rate Lucas.

(most of) The others dont.
[/quote]

I'm in a quandry. I don't rate him, but he's not awful either. He's beginning to show some intelligent runs forward into attacking areas. He just needs some confidence and i think he could be solid. Not a guaranteed first teamer, but solid.

And i don't rate Rafa
[/quote]

I think we're lucky to have him. I guess Juve, Real Madrid and Milan would feel the same way.

As for Lucas, he's no worse than Song or Mikel Obi and he's improving and carrying out his role well. I wouldn't say I rate him, but he's not bad.
 
[quote author=KopKing link=topic=38907.msg1054104#msg1054104 date=1265990462]
[quote author=Fabio Alrighty-o link=topic=38907.msg1054102#msg1054102 date=1265989953]
[quote author=Le Chacal link=topic=38907.msg1054100#msg1054100 date=1265989832]
It always goes to the same conclusion:

Rafa's supporters rate Lucas.

(most of) The others dont.
[/quote]

I'm in a quandry. I don't rate him, but he's not awful either. He's beginning to show some intelligent runs forward into attacking areas. He just needs some confidence and i think he could be solid. Not a guaranteed first teamer, but solid.

And i don't rate Rafa
[/quote]

I think we're lucky to have him. I guess Juve, Real Madrid and Milan would feel the same way.

As for Lucas, he's no worse than Song or Mikel Obi and he's improving and carrying out his role well. I wouldn't say I rate him, but he's not bad.

[/quote]

He is no worse than Mikel Obi, that is true , but mainly because Obi, although a really annoying twat , is about a zillion light years better

regards
 
Song is a very good player and he had come on leaps and bounds this season.

As for player of the year debate, Torres, Gerrard and Johnson would probably be top if they had been fit all season. Lucas has done well and he is consistent but Reina and Masher would be the obvious vote for player of the season so far.
 
[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=38907.msg1054108#msg1054108 date=1265991678]
[quote author=KopKing link=topic=38907.msg1054104#msg1054104 date=1265990462]
[quote author=Fabio Alrighty-o link=topic=38907.msg1054102#msg1054102 date=1265989953]
[quote author=Le Chacal link=topic=38907.msg1054100#msg1054100 date=1265989832]
It always goes to the same conclusion:

Rafa's supporters rate Lucas.

(most of) The others dont.
[/quote]

I'm in a quandry. I don't rate him, but he's not awful either. He's beginning to show some intelligent runs forward into attacking areas. He just needs some confidence and i think he could be solid. Not a guaranteed first teamer, but solid.

And i don't rate Rafa
[/quote]

I think we're lucky to have him. I guess Juve, Real Madrid and Milan would feel the same way.

As for Lucas, he's no worse than Song or Mikel Obi and he's improving and carrying out his role well. I wouldn't say I rate him, but he's not bad.

[/quote]

He is no worse than Mikel Obi, that is true , but mainly because Obi, although a really annoying twat , is about a zillion light years better

regards
[/quote]

If we're going from this season, Obi Mikel has not been beter than Lucas in any shape or form.
 
[quote author=KopKing link=topic=38907.msg1054098#msg1054098 date=1265989531]
[quote author=Le Chacal link=topic=38907.msg1054090#msg1054090 date=1265989032]
[quote author=KopKing link=topic=38907.msg1054085#msg1054085 date=1265988510]
[quote author=Le Chacal link=topic=38907.msg1054081#msg1054081 date=1265988091]
That defies common sense.

I honestly think he's been one of the worst this season.
Only Kuyt was worse until Christmas I think. At least Deadly got a lot better lately. Unlike Lucas.
His main weakness is his lack of anticipation and vision of the game, the football game in England just goes too fast for him.
He's always late on challenges and thats why he gives so many free kicks away.
Our worst (starting) midfielder in the last decade IMO.
But again I cant blame him, he gives everything and only one clueless manager thought playing him and Mascher together would work.

Our best player this season is Reina...says it all really.
[/quote]

A timely post, which kind of proves my earlier point above. Lucas has been our most accurate passer and has made the most tackles and has the highest success rate of tackles won. So, if he's so bad, what are the others doing?
[/quote]
The fact he's been tackling so much proves my point about lack of anticipation and vision of the game.
Gerrard doesnt need to tackle because he knows where the ball will be.
These statistics mean fuck all. Most of his passes are going back to the central defender behind him
[/quote]

I guess that must be the reason then. I should try to get Stevie to give me the Euromillions number tonight given that he apparently has precognitive abilities. Masher is a decent ball winner, does he also have suspect 'vision and anticipation?'

Its amazing how some people's views can become irrational when presented with facts that contradict them.
[/quote]

Stastics can be manipulated to suggest anything you wish. It's always been the case, and especially so in football. Anyone with an once of sense in them know Lucas doesn't offer enough to be a regular first-team footballer at a massive football club.
 
[quote author=ILD link=topic=38907.msg1054112#msg1054112 date=1265992055]
Song is a very good player and he had come on leaps and bounds this season.

As for player of the year debate, Torres, Gerrard and Johnson would probably be top if they had been fit all season. Lucas has done well and he is consistent but Reina and Masher would be the obvious vote for player of the season so far.
[/quote]

No one suggested that Song was a bad player and Gerrard Torres & Johnson haven't been fit, in fact they've hardly played. Reina is a good call, Masher was a lot worse than Lucas early season, in fact Masher was rubbish in my opinion and thus cannot be considered.
 
[quote author=KopKing link=topic=38907.msg1054115#msg1054115 date=1265992487]
[quote author=ILD link=topic=38907.msg1054112#msg1054112 date=1265992055]
Song is a very good player and he had come on leaps and bounds this season.

As for player of the year debate, Torres, Gerrard and Johnson would probably be top if they had been fit all season. Lucas has done well and he is consistent but Reina and Masher would be the obvious vote for player of the season so far.
[/quote]

No one suggested that Song was a bad player and Gerrard Torres & Johnson haven't been fit, in fact they've hardly played. Reina is a good call, Masher was a lot worse than Lucas early season, in fact Masher was rubbish in my opinion and thus cannot be considered.
[/quote]

My comments on Song were a side note as he was mentioned earlier in the thread.
I know Torres and Johnson etc have hardly played but if they had they would probably be topping the charts so this "Lucas is our best player" hysteria would not even come to fruition. I still stand by Reina and Masher as our best players so far, then Lucas.
 
Masher has achieved more since his form improved than Lucas has all season, or ever will in any season.

Pepe is immense in every sense of the word. There's no keeper in world football I'd rather have playing for us.
 
[quote author=vikas link=topic=38907.msg1054113#msg1054113 date=1265992087]
[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=38907.msg1054108#msg1054108 date=1265991678]
[quote author=KopKing link=topic=38907.msg1054104#msg1054104 date=1265990462]
[quote author=Fabio Alrighty-o link=topic=38907.msg1054102#msg1054102 date=1265989953]
[quote author=Le Chacal link=topic=38907.msg1054100#msg1054100 date=1265989832]
It always goes to the same conclusion:

Rafa's supporters rate Lucas.

(most of) The others dont.
[/quote]

I'm in a quandry. I don't rate him, but he's not awful either. He's beginning to show some intelligent runs forward into attacking areas. He just needs some confidence and i think he could be solid. Not a guaranteed first teamer, but solid.

And i don't rate Rafa
[/quote]

I think we're lucky to have him. I guess Juve, Real Madrid and Milan would feel the same way.

As for Lucas, he's no worse than Song or Mikel Obi and he's improving and carrying out his role well. I wouldn't say I rate him, but he's not bad.

[/quote]

He is no worse than Mikel Obi, that is true , but mainly because Obi, although a really annoying twat , is about a zillion light years better

regards
[/quote]

If we're going from this season, Obi Mikel has not been beter than Lucas in any shape or form.
[/quote]

I would agree on the basis he has played half the games that Lucas has and suffered from a persistent ankle injury this season.
That and the fact Chelsea have a good squad and he has been kept out by Essien .

regards
 
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=38907.msg1054122#msg1054122 date=1265994018]
Masher has achieved more since his form improved than Lucas has all season, or ever will in any season.

Pepe is immense in every sense of the word. There's no keeper in world football I'd rather have playing for us.
[/quote]

I agree with the Judge on Masher, it amazes me that people still fail to see what he does, even when he is playing poorly


regards
 
The worst part is, I am pretty confident a lot of people on other LFC sites would rather have Lucas than Mascheran in the team. I sent a post I saw on RAWK to Brendan and it was ridiculous.
 
[quote author=Peatcheo link=topic=38907.msg1054129#msg1054129 date=1265995243]
The worst part is, I am pretty confident a lot of people on other LFC sites would rather have Lucas than Mascheran in the team. I sent a post I saw on RAWK to Brendan and it was ridiculous.
[/quote]

I wouldn't go that far. Masher is a top player and his attitude and will to win,(when his head's right) is top drawer. I Rated him before we bought him and even more now.
 
If Lucas is rated our best player this season and we end up missing out on CL football, it will be about right. It won't be because he played poorly either, it's just his very nature.
 
Reina by some distance has been out best player but keepers rarely get the recognition that outfield players do, one mistake from a keeper in a game and he gets slated, if a forward makes one mistake nobody mentions it

Lucas hs accumulated points by virtue of the fact that he plays every game and dare i say it sympathy from people who feel he has taken undeserved abuse from his own fans aswell as others and so rate his every 90 minutes without a total fucking catastrophy as proof positive that he is in fact not the worst player ever to emerge from Brazil
 
What Farky said

Struggling for fourth and out of every cup competition

That tells its own story

He is deffo one of the most mediocre midfielders to play for us in living memory

A cipher of a footballer

And yes, I fucking hate seeing him in a Liverpool shirt, although most opposing fans, players and managers rather like it
 
I think commitment and work-ethic count for more in other groups. Lucas is seen as a trier that never gives up and maintains a reasonably consistent level (ignoring the fact that the level isn't particularly high). In a season of apathy and shit form, I guess these sorts of attributes become highlighted more than they would under normal circumstances.

And there is also the "emperors new clothes" element to it.
 
The arrogance of the Lucas brigade is what irritates me most, like they know more about football than you.
 
Some blurt in the pub:

"His most important attribute is his unique ability to keep the game flowing"
 
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