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Lallana

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Fabio said:
Because Lallana I don't think will improve. He is what he is and what he is is very good

Coutinho shows moments of being genuinely world class, then he messes up or has a period of abysmal form

Why is wrong to get frustrated with a player who is capable of so much more, when he fails to deliver?
Click to expand...

I wish it only was frustration. Give him time, this basically is his 3rd season playing regular top flight football.



StevieM said:
Again.... what "demands"?

What are you actually trying to say - that it's ok for Coutinho to be inconsistent and not develop because he was cheap?

That it would be ok for Coutinho to not realise his full potential?

What is it you're not getting?

Coutinho is young, talented & inconsistent with high potential. He was bought when his value was low.

Lallanna is in his prime years, more consistent with a lower improvement potential. He was bought when his value was high.
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Yes, it's absolutely OK if Coutinho doesn't realise his potential, because so far he's been worth twice what we paid for him.
If he becomes world class that's a huge bonus, not a requirement.

Lallana is in his prime years, he's also 4 years older than him. You want the same level of consistency? Give him the same amount of time.

You can't just disregard the fee we pay for a player. It almost always corresponds to the expectations you have in a player. Why the hell would we pay £35 million for Carroll if it wasn't so?
 
@Modo I've no doubt he will improve, and for me it is frustration. He's a player with grace and guile that aren't common. The frustration comes from the feeling he's wasting his ability.
 
Modo said:
You can't just disregard the fee we pay for a player. It almost always corresponds to the expectations you have in a player. Why the hell would we pay £35 million for Carroll if it wasn't so?
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Yes, you can. See my post on Gerrard.

The £35 million for Carroll was an inflated price, Newcastle (and in fact the entire world) knew very well we just sold Torres for £50 million and therefore wouldn't have sold for anything less. If Carroll came to Liverpool at any other time then he'll probably have been bought a price in the region of £20 million.

Using the fee as a measure for the expectations of how a player is going to perform is highly naive and simplistic. Each transfer should be looked at on an individual basis, based on the player, his mentality, where he came from, what leagues he's played at, his age and how long he's been in the game.
 
Red Mullet said:
Each transfer should be looked at on an individual basis, based on the player, his mentality, where he came from, what leagues he's played at, his age and how long he's been in the game.
Click to expand...

Based on that Lallana is worth about £12 million.

Red Mullet said:
Using the fee as a measure for the expectations of how a player is going to perform is highly naive and simplistic.
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Man U paying £30 Million for Rio, not based on expectations?
There's hundreds of examples where players were bought based on expectations. Don't make it sound like it's something I just made up.
 
Markeh said:
Is Lallana a good player or not @Modo ?
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He is a good player.
I'm just weighing in on the Coutinho discussion which I didn't start.

I feel like I'm repeating myself all the time but I can't downplay what he was bought for. I just can't see past it.
 
Modo said:
Man U paying £30 Million for Rio, not based on expectations?
There's hundreds of examples where players were bought based on expectations. Don't make it sound like it's something I just made up.
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Rio had a very good season with Leeds before he joined Man Utd and he was their captain. Pretty similar to Lallana, no?

Like I said, it's an case-by-case situation. Basing it on fee alone is too simple of a model, there are and there always will be other factors.
 
Modo said:
He is a good player.
I'm just weighing in on the Coutinho discussion which I didn't start.

I feel like I'm repeating myself all the time but I can't downplay what he was bought for. I just can't see past it.
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Woods and trees, you have to see the bigger picture rather than just grab hold of one thing and repeat it ad infinitum. You actually make good points but it's clouded by this.
 
Modo said:
He is a good player.
I'm just weighing in on the Coutinho discussion which I didn't start.

I feel like I'm repeating myself all the time but I can't downplay what he was bought for. I just can't see past it.
Click to expand...


Please learn to.

The Inter president was delighted to get rid of Coutinho, he was a bargain and a gamble that worked out. There's no point comparing their fees, we overpaid for one and underpaid for the other.

I don't know who started it but I'm not even sure why there is any financial focus on a player that's doing so well, think we overpaid? Fine. What about Dejan Lovren who cost nearly as much, is playing like shite and is being outperformed by a 30 something free transfer Kolo Toure. That should be more troubling.
 
I am not sober enough to change that into a working picture of Plug from Bash St Kids from my phone.

Soz.
 
Markeh said:
Please learn to.

The Inter president was delighted to get rid of Coutinho, he was a bargain and a gamble that worked out. There's no point comparing their fees, we overpaid for one and underpaid for the other.

I don't know who started it but I'm not even sure why there is any financial focus on a player that's doing so well, think we overpaid? Fine. What about Dejan Lovren who cost nearly as much, is playing like shite and is being outperformed by a 30 something free transfer Kolo Toure. That should be more troubling.
Click to expand...
I'd be banned permanently if I start another Agger vs Lovren discussion. So yeah, been there done that.
 
StevieM said:
Again.... what "demands"?

What are you actually trying to say - that it's ok for Coutinho to be inconsistent and not develop because he was cheap?

That it would be ok for Coutinho to not realise his full potential?

What is it you're not getting?

Coutinho is young, talented & inconsistent with high potential. He was bought when his value was low.

Lallanna is in his prime years, more consistent with a lower improvement potential. He was bought when his value was high.
Click to expand...

I'd challenge anybody on the planet to find a way to disagree with that. Exactly!!
 
I should have probably stated the fucking obvious when I said its stupid creating this competition theory over Lallana and Coutinho. Most level headed fans appreciate both, one simpleton has to exaggerate the talents of one, while bludgeoning the talent of another, because he's English, or something. Because it's impossible to love both. Seriously odd, childish reasoning.
 
mark1975 said:
I should have probably stated the fucking obvious when I said its stupid creating this competition theory over Lallana and Coutinho. Most level headed fans appreciate both, one simpleton has to exaggerate the talents of one, while bludgeoning the talent of another, because he's English, or something. Because it's impossible to love both. Seriously odd, childish reasoning.
Click to expand...


so if I reply to this do I get banned?
 
For the record, numerous posters did just that for a very long time before letting rip at him. I agree with the idea of a truce, but it takes two to stick by it.
 
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