Lallana
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It's pretty clear that you're obsessed with Lallana for some reason, you keep popping up in this thread to point out what a great player he is.
Maybe it's the hair. Maybe it's the romanticized idea that average English players can suddenly morph into superstars given the work ethic and attitude. But in the end, even with those qualities, you get a player who's topped out as an overpriced AM/Winger without any real standout qualities.
It's the Manchester United effect. A large number of limited players can put together fantastic team performances with tactics that play to their strengths. That's exactly the reason they were so successful with the same squad last season, but show their shortcomings this season under less cohesive management. Transplant those players into a different system, and they're not very good because you ask more out of them than they're capable of doing.
If you're talking Lallana for 10-15M or Konoplyanka for 15-18M, it's an obvious decision, is it not? And for 10M we can get a much better player than Lallana anyways.
Never read so much tripe, obsessed with Lallana because ive discussed him in a thread about him?, nice logic! just like this...
For me, Southampton is a club with very average players across the board. It just happens that their play style really appeals to the limited abilities of their players, making them look better than they actually are.
Stoke does the same thing essentially, it just happens that the league has had several years to adapt to facing their style of play, so it's not nearly as effective.
Honestly, lol, the league taking several years to adapt to Stoke? you talk as though physical direct football is something new when its the exact opposite, that sort of football has been engraved in our football culture for decades, you must know that?.
Seeing as Saints have very average players across the board that can play as well as they do purely because of the system, i wonder why every club below them with their average players don't copy them, seeing as it gets players playing above themselves along with attractive entertaining football and results, surely it would be a no brainer to mimic them? it wouldn't be hard to impliment for any competent coach.
Lallana and Shaw are very good players but I think we made them look even better on Saturday because of the amount of space we gave them. Shaw had the freedom of the left wing to run into and put in crosses unchallenged. Definitely not worth the English premium we are going to pay for them.
I think he's an excellent player who would improve our squad but I agree with the prevailing opinion that we would be held to ransom by Southampton and have to pay WAY over his true value to get him. If we could get him for £18m or less I'd be in favour of it but I reckon Saints won't sell for less than £25m.
Heard good things about Kieran Tripper at Burnley. Thoughts on him?
They struggled at the start of last season, the fixture list certainly didn't help, Adkins was sacked when they were 15th, they ended up 14th.
If we were to realistically sign any of them i'ld grab Schneiderlin but Rodgers doesn't seem to be that arsed about getting in a DM, Schneiderlin sort of goes under the radar because of the English players there and would presume his price wouldn't be extortionate like some of the others.
He has all the attributes, is young and for stat lovers is right up there, he was also their player of the season last year.
He has all the attributes, is young and for stat lovers is right up there, he was also their player of the season last year.
I haven't paid attention to Shaw and Lallana in the past, so it was interesting to see them getting rave reviews here. I know Soton were all over us in the first half, but I don't remember having much of an impression of both of them when we stepped up our game in the 2nd half and Soton's heads went down (versus when we lost our heads in the first half and they stepped their game up). So I went to look at the Opta chalkboards on our offal to see what the data says.
Now, these are just impressions from one game, so they won't do justice to either of them.
LUKE SHAW
65.1% pass completion rate over the whole game. If you want some context on that number, Coutinho made about the same percentage of those passes in that game (half the total passes attempted though). Flanagan, whom most of us were saying had a bad game and misplaced passes, found a teammate with 70% of his passes (attempted 23 fewer passes than Shaw).
I think people (like me) remember the threat Shaw posed in our final third in the first half and that's clearly borne out by the data (yellow arrows = key passes). However, we've overlooked the number of passes he misplaced in midfield and in their own half in that same period. Look at that whole clump on the left... had we had better threat there, who knows what would've happened.
In the second half, the stats backed up why I had no impression of him, because his passes or crosses in the final third didn't reach any of his players. That might not all be his fault - could be a combination of the good work by our players or his teammates not running to meet them, etc. but it's interesting nonetheless to see how we overlook some stuff sometimes.
ADAM LALLANA
Looks neat and tidy in the first half, but something's missing here though. Where's the passes into the opponents' final third? I realized I had left out the shooting stats, so went back to look at them, and he had 2 shots in our box in the first half, and one in the 2nd half outside the box. Which is good (at least in the first half), as he was making the runs into the box for chances. I just find it odd for an attacking player, he didn't make any impact in the final third where passing is concerned. Maybe it's not his game, I don't know - like I said, I haven't really paid much attention to him. I was just curious why people rated him so highly and seemed to continue to do so after this game, so wanted to look at the data again.
Soton was impressive in the first half, but I didn't come away from the game thinking we had to buy either of these guys. But like I said, this is just one game, so the analysis won't do justice to them. They must be doing something right in most of the other games to draw the rave reviews they've earned I suppose.
Now, these are just impressions from one game, so they won't do justice to either of them.
LUKE SHAW
65.1% pass completion rate over the whole game. If you want some context on that number, Coutinho made about the same percentage of those passes in that game (half the total passes attempted though). Flanagan, whom most of us were saying had a bad game and misplaced passes, found a teammate with 70% of his passes (attempted 23 fewer passes than Shaw).
I think people (like me) remember the threat Shaw posed in our final third in the first half and that's clearly borne out by the data (yellow arrows = key passes). However, we've overlooked the number of passes he misplaced in midfield and in their own half in that same period. Look at that whole clump on the left... had we had better threat there, who knows what would've happened.
In the second half, the stats backed up why I had no impression of him, because his passes or crosses in the final third didn't reach any of his players. That might not all be his fault - could be a combination of the good work by our players or his teammates not running to meet them, etc. but it's interesting nonetheless to see how we overlook some stuff sometimes.
ADAM LALLANA
Looks neat and tidy in the first half, but something's missing here though. Where's the passes into the opponents' final third? I realized I had left out the shooting stats, so went back to look at them, and he had 2 shots in our box in the first half, and one in the 2nd half outside the box. Which is good (at least in the first half), as he was making the runs into the box for chances. I just find it odd for an attacking player, he didn't make any impact in the final third where passing is concerned. Maybe it's not his game, I don't know - like I said, I haven't really paid much attention to him. I was just curious why people rated him so highly and seemed to continue to do so after this game, so wanted to look at the data again.
Soton was impressive in the first half, but I didn't come away from the game thinking we had to buy either of these guys. But like I said, this is just one game, so the analysis won't do justice to them. They must be doing something right in most of the other games to draw the rave reviews they've earned I suppose.
Excellent player; it says something when some Burnley fans are suggesting he has been their player of the year rather than Ings! They're wrong however, Ings has been unbelievable and IMO player of the year in the whole division.
Trippier is very solid defensively, I haven't seen a winger get the better of him yet (I've seen him live at least 20 times) and he is always willing to get forward. I'm very sure that both he and Ings will be in the Premier League next season with or without Burnley.
Goodness, you got awful defensive there. You've posted more in this thread than anybody else, and mentioned in another thread that you have a soft spot for Southampton. Of course you're going to be biased towards their best attacking player, it's naive to say otherwise.
Stoke has been the most extreme and thorough case of that style of play at the top level in a long time, and it's been fairly successful for them under Pulis. You're doing a great job explaining my point though, most clubs are in an awkward transition phase due to the lack of time afforded to managers. Each manager brings in a few players that suit their style of play and mindset, and then get sacked because the holdouts from the previous regime aren't built to play the system ideally. Pretty soon you end up with a smorgasbord of limited players, whose talents and abilities lie in various styles of play, directly resulting in mediocrity.
Southampton are a club that have embraced this ideology, and actually built a team around a philosophy, rather than trying to constantly salvage players who have no place in their system.
Your issue is that you're grouping "average players" together as a large pool in your thinking. Consider them as "Players who have great movement but little final product", "Players who are excellent executing set pieces, but limited technique", "Players who can be good on the counter, but lack consistency" and so on, and you can build a much better side to adapt to your play.
However it's not all that easy to swap out a manager and an entire squad to bring in a new style of play over a transfer window, there is a ton of inherent risk involved. Clubs that would rather play it safe than sorry remain mid table and below, which is fine by their measure. Finding suitable managers and coaches isn't anywhere near as easy as you make it out to be either: the good ones are usually taken, and the rest are unproven.
Imagine a 4-2-3-1 for years to come of:
Sturridge
Suarez Coutinho Sterling
Lallana Henderson
Sturridge
Suarez Coutinho Sterling
Lallana Henderson
What would it matter? Sahko wins the ball, then lumps it forward for that attacking 6 to ping it about like a pinball machine before smashing in a goal to make it 7-3
Not being defensive, its just that when people talk such blatent bullshit i find it hard to not point it out, can't help it, its no way just restricted to this thread either.
Yeah, dont mind Saints and keep an eye on them but really couldn't care less how it turns out for them, i have zero passion for them, just pleased for friends that they are buzzing again really.
As for the above post its pure mumbo jumbo, i mean what does this even mean?...
Your issue is that you're grouping "average players" together as a large pool in your thinking. Consider them as "Players who have great movement but little final product",
My issue? my issue was with your original post saying Southamptons players are very average across the board, thats plain and simple crazy talk.
Yeah, dont mind Saints and keep an eye on them but really couldn't care less how it turns out for them, i have zero passion for them, just pleased for friends that they are buzzing again really.
As for the above post its pure mumbo jumbo, i mean what does this even mean?...
Your issue is that you're grouping "average players" together as a large pool in your thinking. Consider them as "Players who have great movement but little final product",
My issue? my issue was with your original post saying Southamptons players are very average across the board, thats plain and simple crazy talk.
Earlier this season I posted a series of midfield options that didn't include Lucas e.g. central midfields such as Gerrard/Hendo, Gerrard/Allen, Allen/Hendo and the main argument against these (by quite a few posters) was that we'd get overrun. Although we've conceded quite a few goals with Gerrard/Henderson in CM we've not been overrun (or "steamrollered") and we look more potent than ever.
The front 6 that Studge15 proposed would work if Henderson was given a defensive brief and we were at home to a team in the bottom half of the division, I would be less happy with it away against a good team.
The best thing about signing a player like Lallana is it would increase our options hugely and we'd be able to rest players every now and again especially as we should be in the CL next season.
Options such as.............................
........................Henderson.......Gerrard....................
Sterling.......................Lallana...................Coutinho
.................................Suarez.............................. (Sturridge & Allen rested)
......................Henderson............Allen............................
Sterling......................Coutinho......................Lallana........
................................Sturridge................................ (Suarez & Gerrard rested)
.......................Henderson..............Gerrrard..............................
Coutinho.....................Allen........................Suarez
.............................Sturridge................................ (Lallana & Sterling rested) etc, etc
This would be a hugely flexible front 6 and I'd also love us to sign Ings as well as injuries will crop and we're a bit limited up front with only Suarez and Sturridge.
Southampton dominated out midfield in the first half, Swansea won the midfield as well and that's our two recent games.
You can't tell me that a duo consisting of Lallana and Henderson in midfield wouldn't be "steamrolled".
Southampton dominated our midfield for the last 20 minutes of the first half; we won the game as we did against Swansea because we are such a potent attacking force which is aided by not playing a "proper" DM'er. That said, I still want us to sign a beast of a DM'er because I think the options I've listed above WITH the further option of a Mascherano-type would make us genuine CL contenders.
Why would Dortmund be looking at Keown? That man gets more paranoid by the day!
Sulzeer taught him all he knows.
I'll preface this by saying I've only ever seen Lallana when he's played against us so I've no opinion on him at all.
The problem with signing a 26 year old firstly is that a players peak value is at 26. So we're going to pay top dollar for him.
If you were going to get five great years out of him then you could justify it. But I wouldn't be confident of it.
How many AM's are at their best in their late twenties?
All the ones I can think of were better in their early twenties.
The problem with signing a 26 year old firstly is that a players peak value is at 26. So we're going to pay top dollar for him.
If you were going to get five great years out of him then you could justify it. But I wouldn't be confident of it.
How many AM's are at their best in their late twenties?
All the ones I can think of were better in their early twenties.
I haven't paid attention to Shaw and Lallana in the past, so it was interesting to see them getting rave reviews here. I know Soton were all over us in the first half, but I don't remember having much of an impression of both of them when we stepped up our game in the 2nd half and Soton's heads went down (versus when we lost our heads in the first half and they stepped their game up). So I went to look at the Opta chalkboards on our offal to see what the data says.
Now, these are just impressions from one game, so they won't do justice to either of them.
LUKE SHAW
65.1% pass completion rate over the whole game. If you want some context on that number, Coutinho made about the same percentage of those passes in that game (half the total passes attempted though). Flanagan, whom most of us were saying had a bad game and misplaced passes, found a teammate with 70% of his passes (attempted 23 fewer passes than Shaw).
I think people (like me) remember the threat Shaw posed in our final third in the first half and that's clearly borne out by the data (yellow arrows = key passes). However, we've overlooked the number of passes he misplaced in midfield and in their own half in that same period. Look at that whole clump on the left... had we had better threat there, who knows what would've happened.
In the second half, the stats backed up why I had no impression of him, because his passes or crosses in the final third didn't reach any of his players. That might not all be his fault - could be a combination of the good work by our players or his teammates not running to meet them, etc. but it's interesting nonetheless to see how we overlook some stuff sometimes.
ADAM LALLANA
Looks neat and tidy in the first half, but something's missing here though. Where's the passes into the opponents' final third? I realized I had left out the shooting stats, so went back to look at them, and he had 2 shots in our box in the first half, and one in the 2nd half outside the box. Which is good (at least in the first half), as he was making the runs into the box for chances. I just find it odd for an attacking player, he didn't make any impact in the final third where passing is concerned. Maybe it's not his game, I don't know - like I said, I haven't really paid much attention to him. I was just curious why people rated him so highly and seemed to continue to do so after this game, so wanted to look at the data again.
Soton was impressive in the first half, but I didn't come away from the game thinking we had to buy either of these guys. But like I said, this is just one game, so the analysis won't do justice to them. They must be doing something right in most of the other games to draw the rave reviews they've earned I suppose.
That is a nice post but as you know judging players on one game is pretty much pointless, i remember watching Nathan Redmond for Birmingham when they were in Europe against some random team and was blown away by him and jumped to conclusions about how good he was/could be, though he is doing allright nowadays for Norwich but nothing like the knee jerking thoughts i had.
If you were just going off this one game sample only and being totally neutral having never seen any of the players before you would think Coutinho was very poor and take Lallana over him everytime, Sturridge you wouldn't think much of at all, Suarez of course would be the one major stand out in our team, il'd swap Chambers for Flanagan is a flash also, il'd be tempted to do that one anyway tbh but its hard to really know right now how good both will be.
Yes, and I did make a clarification on that point specifically. However, people were raving about them after this particular match, so I thought of digging up and looking at the data, as I wanted to see what I'd missed when I was watching the game.
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