Big game tactics?

[rurikbird]

It looks like Slot has found a slightly new angle, a different way to use this group of players - flood the midfield with 4 and “clone” Szoboszlai and the key tactical role he performs with another hard-working midfielder alongside him (note that after Jones went off, it was Alexis next to Szobo while Endo tucked in next to Gravenberch - so it’s possible to replicate this system with different personnel, this idea is more than simply a way to keep all 4 first-choice midfielders on the pitch). This way, our inconsistent #9’s stop being a problem - Jota and Nunez didn’t see even a minute of action and we didn’t really need them at any point.

It’s interesting to think back to Slot’s very first game in charge of Liverpool - pre-season against Real Betis in Pittsburgh, which I saw live - Slot used this exact formation with two #10’s (in that game it was Szobo and Elliott). So maybe it was in the back of his mind all along. Fast forward to now and I think it might become our go-to tactic for big games, certainly in the Champions League.

The Villa game with Jones on the left was another variation of that idea and arguably worked even better in terms of chance creation - so it looks like there is a lot of untapped potential in that system and it really showcases the all-around qualities of our midfielders, making our biggest strength even more of a strength. Defensively, having MacAllister (and later Endo) next to Gravenberch at all times allowed Gravvy to focus more on helping Trent (who needed all the help he could get against Doku!), while Macca often filled in the space between Van Dijk and Robertson, which has been our place of vulnerability in the past, and also effectively shadowed De Bruyne, making him a non-factor. And having a partner next to him allowed Szobo to focus more on the attacking part of his game, which he did to great effect. So, who needs #9’s? 🙂

 

[StevieM]

It worked well, but I wonder if it was also partly down to Gakpo & Jota not being 100%, Darwin being shit & Cheesie being Italian.

Feel like Diaz & Jota in that false 9 role also works with them coming deep.

The downside was, we had one less person for out ball from defence, so there was a lot of just hitting it long to no-one and it coming straight back.

Definitely a good variation to be able to utilise though.

 

[Holle]

I'd still like to see a proper #9.

 

[dogboy]

I'd still like to see a proper #9.

Aye, I'd like a striker option as well, no requirement for it here though, and there's not many out there.

 

[Dreambeliever]

A better team would have punished us with such a glaring issue at RB and our inability to hold onto the ball or get out for most of the second half.

It worked but I don’t see it as a workable blueprint for big games.

We are lucky Doku was shite after beating Trent time and time again.

Real would have scored a hatful.

 

[Farkmaster]

Yeah, but speaking of real, this is how they've shat on us repeatedly.

I'm not saying this performance was at their razor sharp best, but how many times have you seen real beat us and you just think, well, they weren't shit. You think, how did that happen, we had the ball at the beginning of what seems like dangerous moves, and we could have just played a better ball, we had the chances to... but really it's a mirage.

Real always knew they'd get moments, and when they do, they just look like they exploit them better in every way. Like they make it look easy to find space, they have just enough artistry at key times, but sometimes it's pretty simple. Ultimately they have the things they need to hurt us and they fucking do, and they've got that bit of quality, and then they just are willing to frustrate and wait for that next moment to hurt us again, even if it's ugly and boring.

We did that to city, it was a great display. I think there would have been all sorts of risk doing it a different way.

Also, that was with Diaz having one of his worst ever games in a red shirt, and he saw a good amount of the ball! If we were firing on two flanks, that shoreline would have been more emphatic.

 

[StevieM]

… If we were firing on two flanks, that shoreline would have been more emphatic.

With nice cliffs or scenic beaches? 😉

 

[Farkmaster]

With nice cliffs or scenic beaches? 😉

More like a wild nude beach. Maybe in the basque country, or Asturias.

 

[Dirty Sanchez]

Watching that game against City, it always felt comfortable - and that we were much more likely to score the third than they were to get their first. It was, however, just a little frustrating watching us hoof the ball out of defense only for it to come straight back, or to see us misplace many passes and lose the ball cheaply. But the overall defensive solidity, and unbelieveable team work ethic (Salah and Ibou covering a beleaguered TAA) meant that we were never really in trouble. Felt like an easy win - but the mirage was that we outworked and outthought them. Great game from Slot too really. I'm not missing Klopp. At all.

 

[localny]

I’m also a bit concerned about the hoofing in recent weeks but it was so wet last night it was harder to make precision passing in our final third. I wonder if the rain made those passes a little wide

 

[Frogfish]

It looks like Slot has found a slightly new angle, a different way to use this group of players - flood the midfield with 4 and “clone” Szoboszlai and the key tactical role he performs with another hard-working midfielder alongside him (note that after Jones went off, it was Alexis next to Szobo while Endo tucked in next to Gravenberch - so it’s possible to replicate this system with different personnel, this idea is more than simply a way to keep all 4 first-choice midfielders on the pitch). This way, our inconsistent #9’s stop being a problem - Jota and Nunez didn’t see even a minute of action and we didn’t really need them at any point.

It’s interesting to think back to Slot’s very first game in charge of Liverpool - pre-season against Real Betis in Pittsburgh, which I saw live - Slot used this exact formation with two #10’s (in that game it was Szobo and Elliott). So maybe it was in the back of his mind all along. Fast forward to now and I think it might become our go-to tactic for big games, certainly in the Champions League.

The Villa game with Jones on the left was another variation of that idea and arguably worked even better in terms of chance creation - so it looks like there is a lot of untapped potential in that system and it really showcases the all-around qualities of our midfielders, making our biggest strength even more of a strength. Defensively, having MacAllister (and later Endo) next to Gravenberch at all times allowed Gravvy to focus more on helping Trent (who needed all the help he could get against Doku!), while Macca often filled in the space between Van Dijk and Robertson, which has been our place of vulnerability in the past, and also effectively shadowed De Bruyne, making him a non-factor. And having a partner next to him allowed Szobo to focus more on the attacking part of his game. So, who needs #9’s? 🙂

We also saw it against Villa and I think there is a common denominator there : City have two fast (but ineffective) wingers in Savinho and Doku and Villa in Malen, Rashford and even Watkins often drifted out there to face up Trent. I can see this being the format against teams with fast dangerous wingers.

As the midfield is congested, or controlled by us, it forces the opposition to go wide but enables us to effectively police them when they do, however it also means they tend to overload the wings with the FBs pushing forward leaving us with Salah + Diaz/Gakpo vs CBs.

 

[StevieM]

More like a wild nude beach. Maybe in the basque country, or Asturias.

Will there be mountains close by?

Asking for a friend of a friend?

 

[Squiggles]

Our possession was in the thirties, our lowest percentage since records began, apparently. Yet, we still managed to control the game without the ball. It would have been interesting to see if we’d used the same approach had Haaland been playing—he’s the one player who could have caused problems, no matter how much we compacted the space. He only needs a moment.

More broadly, I think there’s been a shift away from ‘possession at all costs.’ Maybe it’s because teams have become better at staying organised and resisting Pep’s style, or perhaps we’re simply entering a new phase in the game.

My only gripe with Klopp—and it was a minor one—was how we often restricted space that made Mane, Firmino, and Salah so effective. By pinning teams back, we compressed the pitch, leaving them little room to stretch their legs and run into space. Most of our counters came from Alisson’s distribution or set-pieces, rather than situations we deliberately created. That’s what I like about Slot’s football, how it invites teams onto us and then, bang. A rapid change of pace in passing, or Trent going long, and suddenly, we’re in.

 

[rurikbird]

Yeah, but speaking of real, this is how they've shat on us repeatedly.

I'm not saying this performance was at their razor sharp best, but how many times have you seen real beat us and you just think, well, they weren't shit. You think, how did that happen, we had the ball at the beginning of what seems like dangerous moves, and we could have just played a better ball, we had the chances to... but really it's a mirage.

Real always knew they'd get moments, and when they do, they just look like they exploit them better in every way. Like they make it look easy to find space, they have just enough artistry at key times, but sometimes it's pretty simple. Ultimately they have the things they need to hurt us and they fucking do, and they've got that bit of quality, and then they just are willing to frustrate and wait for that next moment to hurt us again, even if it's ugly and boring.

We did that to city, it was a great display. I think there would have been all sorts of risk doing it a different way.

Also, that was with Diaz having one of his worst ever games in a red shirt, and he saw a good amount of the ball! If we were firing on two flanks, that shoreline would have been more emphatic.

For me this way of winning games is very much the essence of Italian coaching and tactical outlook (I think in your examples you’re referring to Ancelotti’s Real - when they were coached by Spaniards we had a winning record against them). No need out “outplay” an opponent in order to score a convincing victory, a 180 degree inversion of Pep-ball and Klopp-ball. Slot is Dutch, but one could argue he coaches like an Italian!

 

[DHSC]

Said in the match thread.

Cunha would be great as one of the 10s in this formation.

 

[DHSC]

Kulusevski too.

 

[Modo]

We played the big team version of parking the bus. But our bus is a top notch high end super bus with a rocket launcher.

 

[Squiggles]

View: https://youtu.be/DIrIvKKT_nk?si=l2-6o-YlGwX7-eTL

 

[rurikbird]

We played the big team version of parking the bus. But our bus is a top notch high end super bus with a rocket launcher.

Yeah, I thought there were shades of Mourinho’s “bus” at certain points. You do what you have to win (and we didn’t play-act or cheat!).

 

[Modo]

Yeah, I thought there were shades of Mourinho’s “bus” at certain points. You do what you have to win (and we didn’t play-act or cheat!).

I hate to bring it up, but that's basically what Ancelotti did to us.

 

[rurikbird]

I hate to bring it up, but that's basically what Ancelotti did to us.

That’s what @Farkmaster said in his post and I think that’s true. Nice to be on the opposite end of this!

 

[Farkmaster]

Will there be mountains close by?

Asking for a friend of a friend?

Well yeah, I wouldn't have left either.

 

[mark1975]

A better team would have punished us with such a glaring issue at RB and our inability to hold onto the ball or get out for most of the second half.

It worked but I don’t see it as a workable blueprint for big games.

We are lucky Doku was shite after beating Trent time and time again.

Real would have scored a hatful.

I don't see it like that at all, I think we were confident that Doku had the beating of Trent but wasn't going to supply much because we were then so well positioned to repel any ball he then aimlessly tossed in. Pep more or less said as much after the game, that both him and Savinho had a lot of the ball, but they had to then get the ball past big players who they couldn't compete against.

I think it's quite brilliant tactically really, to know that we have to just go with Trent and suck it up, and that more importantly we found a way to make it work in that Trent had a big say on our attacking play and Doku proved ineffective anyway. We already know his game is just about pace and skill, with no real end product, and we set ourselves up for that.

 

[mark1975]

We all know that Houllier's smash and grab tactics in these sort of games were crucial, but he also couldn't then open us up as an attacking force too much when he needed to. Then with Rodgers and to a lesser extent Klopp we didn't know how to play another way than the way we played against everyone. It's nice that this season has shown we can have character at both ends of the spectrum. A plan B, finally.

 

[mark1975]

Bigger tests will come, none more so than against Isak and Gordon, so we have to rethink about it again and have another plan in place. It's actually good that we have a Premiership game against them before the final, because Slot will need to do his homework on this one.

 

[the count]

We all know that Houllier's smash and grab tactics in these sort of games were crucial, but he also couldn't then open us up as an attacking force too much when he needed to. Then with Rodgers and to a lesser extent Klopp we didn't know how to play another way than the way we played against everyone. It's nice that this season has shown we can have character at both ends of the spectrum. A plan B, finally.

I think it was Neville who said yesterday during his match commentary that it was refreshing after years of managers having an ethos about a single way to play, Slot has come in and has the ability to change his set up and tactics three times in a half.
It seems Ancellotti like in my view.

 

[rurikbird]

I think it was Neville who said yesterday during his match commentary that it was refreshing after years of managers having an ethos about a single way to play, Slot has come in and has the ability to change his set up and tactics three times in a half.
It seems Ancellotti like in my view.

Yeah, that was an insightful comment from Neville - a rarity nowadays.

 

[Athens]

Neville probably had to have a shower after saying that. I bet he's thinking that he still feels dirty because they just don't make water hot enough.

 

[localny]

The problem with Cunha, is that the way his name is spelled makes me think he'd be a selfish trouble maker in the dressing room

 

[Hansern]

Yeah, that was an insightful comment from Neville - a rarity nowadays.

You can see Neville throw up a bit every time has has to praise us.