Allens: Resurrection

[the_khl]

When will it happen?

He seems a long way from the first team suddenly and with hopefully a few more names to show before the end of the window what will his role be this Season?

Is he just being eased back, does his shoulder still hurt, or has he simply been moved further back in the pecking order due to lack of success?

He's 23 and still young, but I am starting to get well curious as to what his role will be in the team. And to be honest he has not impressed me in the few cameos he's had of late.

Thoughts?

 

[Buddha]

Was thinking the same the other day. With a left winger signing on the cards enabling Coutinho to take up the central apex position, chances for Allen are going to be even more squeezed. It's not like he's going to be ousting Gerrard/Lucas from a deeper central position any time soon.

I reckon the best he can hope for is an enforced run in the side (through injuries to others).

Strange one this.

Like the thread title.

 

[Red Bird]

I think Allen and Borini may be questions that Rodgers is adequately failing to answer when he talks to the owners. He'll need to if his wish for more incomings is to be granted.

 

[Modo]

Henderson is playing well and he deserves to be on the pitch.
But ideally, neither of them should be playing and when Suarez returns (if he returns) they probably won't.

 

[nealmac]

I honestly can't see where Allen is supposed to fit in. Especially if Suarez returns.

I liked @the_khl first post because the thread title is fantastic.

 

[gkmacca]

I think Allen and Borini may be questions that Rodgers is adequately failing to answer when he talks to the owners. He'll need to if his wish for more incomings is to be granted.

Sturridge and Coutinho ought to be sufficient to overcome any qualms.

 

[rurikbird]

I am sticking with my prediction. Allen will be a starting 11 player by the end of the season. But Rodgers is correct in preferring Henderson right now, Allen will need to earn his place.

 

[gkmacca]

I think Rodgers arrived determined to impose his existing system on Liverpool, and so Allen was vital. Then he gradually became more pragmatic, started adapting his system, and one of the consequences was Allen no longer seemed to have a pivotal role to play. If Allen's in top form and the team is built to suit him he can be brilliant. If he's sent on to be a bit like Lucas in one game and a bit like Gerrard in another game he's going to look as bewildered, under-confident and ineffectual as he looks at the moment. He can't push up, where I think he's most suited, if Coutinho is in his number 10 role, and he can't drop back if Lucas and Gerrard continue to play in their current roles, so I'm not sure where he's going to get the game time to recover his confidence.

 

[the_khl]

My main gripe with him being moved further forward is his sheer lack of goals. I can see why he would have a lot of the right abilities to be applied in an advanced position, I just don't think you can afford in todays game to have a player with so few goals to his name possess such a pivotal position.

I agree that he will probably not start to deliver until he is utilized in the same position week in week out.

PS As I am not familiar with his assists stats at Swansea, it would be appreciated if anyone could dig this up? @Binny

 

[Rosco]

I've just never seen what ability Allen has that makes him suitable for the no.10 role.

He's gotta be Scott Parker-lite, if he's going to have a future here.

 

[Rosco]

My main gripe with him being moved further forward is his sheer lack of goals. I can see why he would have a lot of the right abilities to be applied in an advanced position, I just don't think you can afford in todays game to have a player with so few goals to his name possess such a pivotal position.

I agree that he will probably not start to deliver until he is utilized in the same position week in week out.

PS As I am not familiar with his assists stats at Swansea, it would be appreciated if anyone could dig this up? @Binny

Just google espn soccernet Joe Allen you lazy cunt

 

[Dahuge]

I have said it many times, Allen doesn't have the qualities required to play in the 10 role. He has no pace, he isn't strong, has hasn't the guile or the vision.

He is a tick over player, someone to keep the ball moving. We don't the surrounding players to compliment him, his other problem is he can only play short passes and those are mainly either sideways or backwards. For him to force his way into the side he needs to add long passing to his game or bulk up and become a power player(which isn't going to happen).

Borini and Allen will be the killer for Rodgers...

 

[gkmacca]

I don't think he's a number ten (although he definitely does have the vision), he shouldn't be playing that far forward, but he's suited to running into that area, and if Coutinho is playing there he doesn't need Allen doing that, he needs the space to himself, so I can only see Allen settling for a modified role here that makes him the central and primary provider for Coutinho.

 

[the_khl]

Just google espn soccernet Joe Allen you lazy cunt

Ha, I've actually ended up there once or twice but there stats at the time at least wasn't correct.

Is it normally a sound source?

 

[Red Bird]

Sturridge and Coutinho ought to be sufficient to overcome any qualms.

In fact, they reinforce the questions. Both cost less and are doing well. For FSG there must be a suspicion that our managers, whoever they happen to be, are incapable of spending big money wisely.

Allen and Borini are both good players with youth on there side. Rodgers will need to make good use of them to be given more.

 

[gkmacca]

In fact, they reinforce the questions. Both cost less and are doing well. For FSG there must be a suspicion that our managers, whoever they happen to be, are incapable of spending big money wisely.

I don't really get this. Rodgers' earliest signings were open to criticism. His more recent ones aren't. How is that reinforcing the question? The aim was always to get value for money. Rodgers and his committee have got progressively better at doing so.

 

[the_khl]

About 9 assists in his past 150 games in all comp. 0 playing for us in 38 games.

And 10 goals in the same amount of games. Two for us in total scored in the FA and Europa League.

I know it's not his key attributes to score or create goals, but I still believe those stats is about what you'd expect to see from your DM. It really is a big issue.

 

[gkmacca]

Eh?

 

[RedStar]

Surely its a situation where Lucas and Allen will alternate, Lucas will play the games where we expect to be under the kosh a bit more and Allen will play the games where we are guaranteed to have tons of possession. I dont think he settled last seaosn, or rather he settled and then seemed to run out of steam at some point, I reckon theres a very good player in there but not at no 10 and certainly not when half fit like the 2nd half of last season. Like most modern midfielders he only seems to work when hes playing in the right system, he stuck out like a sore thumb last season trying to play short passing triangles in a team that was doing something completely different but Rodgers has started putting his stamp on the team now and I think Allen is well placed to grow into the side as Gerrard is phased out

I don think Rodgers has any intention of getting rid of him, hes only 22 and its pretty clear our midfield will need to be rebuilt in the next 12 - 24 months, Gerrard is no longer the sort of player that is first name on the teamsheet and there are big question marks of Lucas and Henderson (for different reasons). It wont happen this season but I wouldnt be surprised if he became a mainstay in our midfield over the next 5 years

 

[gkmacca]

Allen's job is to guarantee possession. That's his greatest strength. To only use him when we seem guaranteed to have possession is a bit wrongheaded. Obviously if someone doesn't rate Allen, then fine, but if one DOES rate him then it's confused to want a puppet master for when a puppet can stand up and walk about without any help. Allen at his best STOPS a team being under the kosh. He pulls the strings that need to be pulled.

 

[TSD]

We seem to have an odd mix of midfielders who, at their present levels, don't quite complement one another. There aren't any naturally strong double pivots; the Lucas and Gerrard pairing, for instance, is the deepest lying double pivot I've seen, and requires an extra pair of legs in Henderson to cover ground.

 

[keniget]

+1 for thread title.

Allen's problem is that Gerrard has got his job in the team at the moment and it's unlikely that he's going anywhere. As has been said, he's neither a no.10 nor a defensive midfielder, so the reality is (assuming Rodgers has learnt from his midfield mistakes of seasons past) that a) we change our midfield shape, b) rotate Allen in when Gerrard is being rested or Lucas is deemed unncessary due to opposition being faced or c) we end up selling him

 

[RolandG]

When will it happen?

He seems a long way from the first team suddenly and with hopefully a few more names to show before the end of the window what will his role be this Season?

Is he just being eased back, does his shoulder still hurt, or has he simply been moved further back in the pecking order due to lack of success?

He's 23 and still young, but I am starting to get well curious as to what his role will be in the team. And to be honest he has not impressed me in the few cameos he's had of late.

Thoughts?

Now that Gerrard is hanging back and playing almost the Xabi role, I see no way back for Allen. Henderson is vastly improved and his hard running suits our playing style much better than Allen. He may be offloaded in January with Borini or both may spectacularly ressurect their Liverpool careers and make us eat dirt!

 

[the_khl]

Eh?

Yeah sorry, went of on a tangent there, was just curious to know his career stats.

Kind of rules out any talk of a number 10. role in the team too.

 

[Woland]

I reckon he bought Allen and Borini thinking that he needed mates in the dressing room who could talk him up in case Gerrard and Carra started wondering who Rodgers was and whether he knew what he was on about when we lost a few games. Not that he didn't rate them as players... everyone in football seemed to think Allen was ace when we bought him, but he defo needed some faces he knew at the club.

That might seem a bit simple but BR must have been shitting himself coming to Liverpool having won bugger all in his life and having to dominate a dressing room full of players who've won everything bar the league, not that much younger than him, certainly with far more experience of big games.

Maybe Allen and Borini's usefulness in that respect has vanished now that most people are behind Rodgers. Just thoughts anyways.

 

[RolandG]

I reckon he bought Allen and Borini thinking that he needed mates in the dressing room who could talk him up in case Gerrard and Carra started wondering who Rodgers was and whether he knew what he was on about when we lost a few games. Not that he didn't rate them as players... everyone in football seemed to think Allen was ace when we bought him, but he defo needed some faces he knew at the club.

That might seem a bit simple but BR must have been shitting himself coming to Liverpool having won bugger all in his life and having to dominate a dressing room full of players who've won everything bar the league, not that much younger than him, certainly with far more experience of big games.

Maybe Allen and Borini's usefulness in that respect has vanished now that most people are behind Rodgers. Just thoughts anyways.

Devious bastard 😀

 

[Skullflower]

welsh xavi.

rodgers is a complete plonker although he seems to be trying to tone it down now.

 

[Dahuge]

I reckon he bought Allen and Borini thinking that he needed mates in the dressing room who could talk him up in case Gerrard and Carra started wondering who Rodgers was and whether he knew what he was on about when we lost a few games. Not that he didn't rate them as players... everyone in football seemed to think Allen was ace when we bought him, but he defo needed some faces he knew at the club.

That might seem a bit simple but BR must have been shitting himself coming to Liverpool having won bugger all in his life and having to dominate a dressing room full of players who've won everything bar the league, not that much younger than him, certainly with far more experience of big games.

Maybe Allen and Borini's usefulness in that respect has vanished now that most people are behind Rodgers. Just thoughts anyways.

A very interesting point....

 

[Red Bird]

I don't really get this. Rodgers' earliest signings were open to criticism. His more recent ones aren't. How is that reinforcing the question? The aim was always to get value for money. Rodgers and his committee have got progressively better at doing so.

Aye. You and I are not disagreeing at all. We are just seeing things from different ends.

 

[Pesam]

I'm a big fan of Allen's but even when we signed him I suggested we were paying fair value and suggested we shouldn't go any higher if Swansea held out for more.

He has the potential to be a very big player for us BUT as the months go by I become less convinced that we are going to make the necessary changes to the central midfield that would be required to get the best out of him.

Allen and Lucas are a non-starter as a partnership (and as you all well know Lucas is just a non-starter period IMO). If Allen and Gerrard start then we need to play 3 CM'ers (like Swansea did; Britton & Allen were supported by Augistien playing DM and they played Graham as a lone striker). Ideally we need a very good DM'er or Gerrard to play that role and bring in another CM who's good in possession (better than Henderson) - and maybe Teixera might hopefully be the answer.

If we're not going to buy a CM'er soon AND IF Teixera is as good as i think he is then soon I'd like to see.........

............................................Gerrard/New DM................................
............Teixera/Gerrard................................Allen..............
..........................................Coutinho..................................
............................Suarez................Sturridge................

Failing this i.e. Teixera making the breakthrough or a new signing then I'm afraid Allen should probably stay on the bench.

For the record the line up above is perfunctory and cannot reflect the fluidity of those 6 players; all of whom should be perfectly comfortable going out wide and interchanging positions as an attacking move builds.

I know some posters don't think Gerrard is capable of playing the DM role but he is. My preference would be to sign a proper DM'er and play Gerrard further forward allowing Teixera to develop gradually.