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Stoke post match thoughts

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The most positive thing about us today was our defence.

We looked fairly solid and much tougher with the likes of Milner, Benteke, Gomez and Clyne.

Firmino showed in a brief cameo signs of Suarez in his movement and constant forward running. For me he'll replace Lallana vs Bournemouth.

Always going to be tough first game of the season. Coutinho was slightly off the pace but proved he's capable of magic out of a hat moments.

Glad we got the 3 points and win our next game it gives us a huge confidence booster against the big boys.

On a side note, I can't fucking wait to see Benteke and Sturridge pair together, they could run teams riot with Coutinho/Firmino supplying them.
 
Fucking right! Who are they by the way? I have a hack virus I'm just itching to use! #notreally #yesreally

Covered all legal bases right there.... Or have I?
I can't tell you because they will call me a weasel cunt and snitch to the mods.
 
Cloggy still can't get over the fact that he both despises my opinions and is unable to outargue them.

Obviously there's no way he can be wrong, or misguided, so it must be that I'm Nigel Farage, or a mod-informant, or a libertarian, or a bullshitter.
 
And then when I object to that kind of mean-minded treatment, he tells me how much he likes me, or that it's only a joke or whatever.

Whatever, I just tell him now that I don't enjoy it and would like him to stop. Any more and he's going on ignore, which seems a bit of a shame.
 
Cloggy still can't get over the fact that he both despises my opinions and is unable to outargue them.

Obviously there's no way he can be wrong, or misguided, so it must be that I'm Nigel Farage, or a mod-informant, or a libertarian, or a bullshitter.
I genuinely don't mind people having different opinions to me Peter.

Imagine that.

Put me on ignore if you want like but if you are actually angry and having an argument here you are pretty much having it with yourself.
 
We were crap for most of the game, the difference is we have a defence now at long last and have an out ball to Benteke.

The midfield was disjointed, totally passive and unimaginative and strung out so far that every player on the ball was isolated.

The game changed when Can came on and we finally had a player coming close to the ball, offering support and providing a link between defence and attack. Replacing the weak, anonymous Lallana meant we had the right number of players on the pitch and we became far more cohesive.

We don't need a DM as such, just someone who can move into space and always be available to receive the ball, close to the player in possession. Under Rodgers, we are so spread out it's impossible to control a game - I hope to fuck he (or one of the new coaches) has spotted that we can't go on with that line-up, we become predictable and even against average sides we can't retain possession long enough to mount pressure.

The pluses are definitely the 2 fullbacks who are boss and Lovren who was dominant against a tough, physical opponent who ended up moaning about being outmuscled. And 3 points from a very difficult fixture even if Stoke were nowhere near at full strength.
 
three points and a clean sheet at a tough ground to play away at. Great result. The performances will improve with time.
 
Joe Gomez's Liverpool debut by numbers:

100% tackles won
8 clearances
2 aerial duels won
2 interceptions
1 key pass

Nathaniel Clyne's game by numbers vs. Stoke:

100% tackles won
100% aerial duels won
5 clearances
2 interceptions
 
Yeah, 3 points. I get people are critical of the performance, and sure there were plenty of worrying signs, but 1st game of the season, heck – first months of the season are always notoriously hard to judge. Chelsea drew at home. United were awful. Arsenal lost at home. Everton drew at home, and Spurs lost. We won away from home and have 3 points in the bag. You take that.

What I liked;
  • So solid across the back four. Really we were. Played a high line to narrow the gap to midfield, allowed the full backs forward, and helf shape really well. You xould see at certain points – set pieces, when we were under pressure – that there was a concerted effort to talk and organise as a back four. Good. They’ve obviously worked on it.
  • The Full backs are fantastic. Just really really good footballers. Gomez has never played a minute of premier league football before yesterday, and he looked outstanding.
  • Lovren was very good. I made a point last week that I didn’t really get the drama over not including Sakho. I don’t think Sakho’s that fucking great to be honest, and I don’t think Brodge does either. I think there’s better upside in Lovren than there is in Sakho.
  • Milner keeps the ball so well. He’s really very good at doing the simple things.
  • The sub’s worked well so credit to Brodge.
  • A marvellous goal, just a truly fantastic strike. What a talent that kid is.

What I didn’t:

  • The midfield was poor, and Milner aside I thought we never had any form of assurance or control.
  • Henderson’s feet and close control aren’t good enough for that deep-lying role. He takes too many touches to get it under control. I’m not sure what happened with Lucas, but I can’t see Henderson working as a deep lying midfielder. Good number 10’s will destroy him there.
  • Slow pitch didn’t help.
  • Coutinho gave the ball away the entire game. This isn’t picking on someone, it’s just pointing out the truth. He did.
  • We created very little, but I think there’s a reason for that...

Noticeably Coutinho, Lallana and Ibe all found it hard to create. Ibe looked exciting, but for all his nice work he barely got near the box (he also takes far too many touches but anyway, he’s young). The 3 of them were just crowded out and our lopsided midfield gave little support. Stoke stuck 10 behind the ball and played two close lines of midfielders and defenders so it all became so hard to create anything. We ended up just doing triangles between full-back and midfielders and going nowhere. But then, that’s what happens when you go away to sides in the upper-middle of the table – they make it difficult for you and stay compact. So it takes a bit of magic or a fluke to change the game, and we got one of them.

Lastly, credit to the manager. He played for a 0-0 at half-time, and got it. He’s got (on limited evidence) a better organised back four, and he has bought two excellent full-backs, and trusted one of them to play his first ever top flight game. With the game under control after 60 minutes, he made good subs, kept the back four holding a high line and kept us pressing forward.

A small, but important start. Confidence is a big thing for an under pressure manager and a relatively new side. Beat Bournemouth next weekend and we’ve 6 points from 6. I’ve no issue with that.
 
Still massive ifs involved here, but with Clyne and Gomez, a potentially settled back-line gives me confidence that we can build on a solid foundation and work on the lack of creativity in midfield once Firmino is up and running (pun maybe intended). Henderson, Milner, Firmino, Coutinho, Ibe and Benteke has enough mobility in it to cause problems (despite potentially being goal-shy).
 
Bournemouth looked like water trash against relegation certainties Aston Villa.

I think we will see a much different mentality next week with Brodge letting the attackers in the squad off the leash so they can go eat.

Will look a much different game than vs. Stoke.
 
I think we can say the central set up of Coutinho lining up ahead of Milner and Henderson failed to control the game Coutinho was crowded out in the middle and Henderson and Milner were too deep to have any real impact higher up the pitch, which limited us. Both of them have the capability of getting assists and goals and there were restricted further back. Coutinho started getting more involved when he went wider and his goal came from cutting in from the left hand side.

Lallana will surely be benched and Firminho has to come in. Lucas, if the rumours are true, will likely go so I'm not sure where that leaves us. Both Milner and Henderson need a DM behind them to push forward. Can might be the answer, but whether its right to restrict his game in such a way is questionable. The set up below could leave us too narrow if the fullbacks don't push up, but I'd be more confident in it controlling games and creating chances then todays line up.

----------------------Benteke------------------
-----Coutinho------------------------Firminho--
--------Henderson--------Milner-------------
------------ --Can/Allen------------------
 
I don't think Henderson gets in our best team. We should play a 3 of Can Milner and Coutinho.

Kinda hard when you've just made Hendo captain, like.
 
It depends on how Can performs consistently in midfield. If he steps it up this season...Henderson should not be an automatic starter.
 
I don't think we have a DM on the team. I don't think Can has the instincts or mobility for it. Hendo and Milner are not DMs.

Might be forced into the transfer market after all.
 
I don't think Henderson gets in our best team. We should play a 3 of Can Milner and Coutinho.

Kinda hard when you've just made Hendo captain, like.


Heh, I was thinking this during the match actually… Is there likely to be a time when Hendo isn’t good enough to get in the side? This season too?

It’s a weird one cos yeah he’s captain on merit and stuff, but what if Can, Milner, Coutinho are a better triumverate? He can’t go and drop Hendo after making him captain can he? I’d go so far as to say that if you need someone in front of the back four to play that deeper role and to supply Milner & Coutinho, then Joe Allen would be a better bet. Allen’s better with the ball at his feet than Henderson and reads the game better.

I don’t want to jump at shadows after 1 match, but I don’t see how this works long-term cos good sides will pick Henderson apart in that role, and I fully believe his feet aren’t good enough to be able to control and move it quickly enough to play there either. His first touch isn’t sharp, he takes 3 touches to get it under control and he telegraphs passes. Allen, Lucas and Can all have a better touch.

But then Henderson brings the energy that those 3 don’t, so y’know.

Tough one, but it’s not beyond the realms that a cohesive functional midfield doesn’t include him.
 
I don't think Henderson gets in our best team. We should play a 3 of Can Milner and Coutinho.

Kinda hard when you've just made Hendo captain, like.
I said this last season when the debate on who should be the next captain was in full swing. I don't think Hendo is a guaranteed starter (though I guess he is in Rodgers' mind). It should have been Skrtel for this season.
Hendo was crap in pre-season and he's carried that forward.
 
Largely agree, but why leave Skrtel out of your praise for the defence? He played as well as any of them IMHO.
I thought he had a mixed game JJ. Very good for most of it but twice played ridiculous back passes to Ming that against a more alert/faster striker could have cost us the match, plus his trademark poorly timed Yellow.
 
The Full backs are fantastic. Just really really good footballers. Gomez has never played a minute of premier league football before yesterday, and he looked outstanding.

I thought Walters gave Gomez a torrid time but overall he improved throughout the game. I think Gomez should be penciled in as our LB until season's end ...
 
lol Ryan.

You mention Coutinho losses the ball too much and Ibe takes too many touches but nothing about Lallana who was worst than both combined.

Terrible performance from an attacking point of view but I doubt there is a fan on the planet who would have preferred a superb attacking performance over 3 points.

Job done and onto next week.
 
lol Ryan.

You mention Coutinho losses the ball too much and Ibe takes too many touches but nothing about Lallana who was worst than both combined.

Terrible performance from an attacking point of view but I doubt there is a fan on the planet who would have preferred a superb attacking performance over 3 points.

Job done and onto next week.


I think I wrote that the three of them did nothing. Let me check...

Yep.

"Noticeably [they] found it hard to create."

And you're being selective; I highlighted Ibe's decent performance, and Coutinho's amazing goal, as well as his evident talent.
 
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