Post Match Blowing Bubbles
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He has been excellent - but I don’t think the midfield is to blame for this result - the 2nd goal, yeah - but West Ham had 3 corners - scored from 2 of them and hit the cross bar with a free header on the other one.
That’s a shite state of affairs.
In today's game, it's a red ... fair of not, different story
Yeah I think he was so consumed by the first goal that it affected him throughout the match. Antonio kept standing on him throughout, and we did nothing to stop that. Wouldn't have minded one of Matip or van Dijk asserting themselves and stopping that shit early.
Part of this is that van Dijk is yet not the physically dominating brute that attackers used to be scared of. He's still a bit tentative, which is understandable. I thought Fabinho was very poor yesterday, but he always is after lengthy layoffs.
Don't think the Creswell tackle was a red, his foot bounces off the top of the ball and makes it look much worse than it was supposed to be.
The first goal should absolutely have been ruled out though - Andy Townsend and the rest of the pundits were gleefully telling the world that Alisson was soft and had a flap at it, but he was effectively caught between Antonio behind him and Ogbonna in front of him. Ogbonna slams his butt into Alisson's body and his arms obstruct Alisson as well. Not sure what exactly Alisson can do there but to flap. Stupid refereeing.
Cresswell followed through with his right as well. He doesnt have to make much contact for it to be considered dangerous play. When you go in with that type of force you endanger the other player regardless of an unlucky bounce of the ball. Its a red card.
That’s the game I saw. As against Brighton and Brentford, we’re conceding too many [sloppy] goals. Far too many.
The midfield increasingly looks as if it needs complete ripping up and resetting— some of the players in there just looked hopelessly lost yesterday. The defence also needs reorganising. It doesn’t help that the season has been stop, start., does it.
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Ogbonna is entitled to stand his ground, he doesn't have to get out of the way and let Ali take it. If Allison decides to come for that ball he has to win it. In fairness he did, but he made a mess of the punch because he wasn't committed physically.
I don't think this is fair for the 1st goal - Allison came out fine, but he was unable to left one army properly as Ogbonna's jump had made that impossible ... It was a 50/50 play and I don't think he was afforded any protection ... Normally, in today's game, goalkeepers are protected from this kind of stuff - it always goes their way. If that's not the case anymore, fine ... but I can guarantee we'll see a few goals like this in the coming months which will be chalked off ...
I've always said consistency is key for refs - if you look at Cresswell's right knee, it could easily have done to Hendo's leg what the T-rex at Everton did to VvD.
It's not intentional, it's not even a foul in our game years ago ... but in today's game? Not even a foul?
I mean I get it - it's not why we lost, there's other reasons but that is at minimum a foul and we didn't even get that ... it's our day summed up in a decision.
"'It didn't have the required force, or intensity, or clear contact’ - which is why he didn't overturn the decision".
So you can tackle that way if there's not required force, or intensity or clear contact? Huh? Where is Creswell's right knee? His fucking left leg is pointing where? Sorry, that's a cop out ... Pogba's wasn't a red either - let's just be consistent.
It's not intentional, it's not even a foul in our game years ago ... but in today's game? Not even a foul?
I mean I get it - it's not why we lost, there's other reasons but that is at minimum a foul and we didn't even get that ... it's our day summed up in a decision.
"'It didn't have the required force, or intensity, or clear contact’ - which is why he didn't overturn the decision".
So you can tackle that way if there's not required force, or intensity or clear contact? Huh? Where is Creswell's right knee? His fucking left leg is pointing where? Sorry, that's a cop out ... Pogba's wasn't a red either - let's just be consistent.
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We've been playing more or less the same way, with more or less the same group of players for nearly 4 years now. It was only a matter of time for the wily premiership managers to wise up to it.
The ones who take us on like Bielsa and leave huge gaps in behind will get destroyed. But the ones with a bit of sense should see how simple it is to put us uner the whip.
We havent evolved as a team, and become predictable.
The ones who take us on like Bielsa and leave huge gaps in behind will get destroyed. But the ones with a bit of sense should see how simple it is to put us uner the whip.
We havent evolved as a team, and become predictable.
It’s much easier taking a defeat if we were outplayed. We weren’t outplayed as we just gave them everything on a plate. It was ridiculous just watching it.
Each goal conceded was a catalogue of errors. It started with a punt to our right. Van Dijk seemed slow to get across and then put it out for the corner. Had he been that yard quicker then it’s a throw. Then Ali decided to be a fanny with the corner. Keeers get the protection in a way they can clear out players. He didn’t commit to that and it goes in.
The second was a ridiculous ball in the middle, turned over, then we made 2 errors. First not taking him out and taking the yellow. The second was trying to play offside when they had a deep runner. Then it was further confounded by Ali having biscuit wrists.
The third was just an abomination. I can’t remember but could the corner be prevented? Anyway, a looping ball to the far post and Ali decided to track it. Losing back post markers is school boy stuff and it was easy.
I think that’s what pissing me off the most. We just handed the points to them.
Each goal conceded was a catalogue of errors. It started with a punt to our right. Van Dijk seemed slow to get across and then put it out for the corner. Had he been that yard quicker then it’s a throw. Then Ali decided to be a fanny with the corner. Keeers get the protection in a way they can clear out players. He didn’t commit to that and it goes in.
The second was a ridiculous ball in the middle, turned over, then we made 2 errors. First not taking him out and taking the yellow. The second was trying to play offside when they had a deep runner. Then it was further confounded by Ali having biscuit wrists.
The third was just an abomination. I can’t remember but could the corner be prevented? Anyway, a looping ball to the far post and Ali decided to track it. Losing back post markers is school boy stuff and it was easy.
I think that’s what pissing me off the most. We just handed the points to them.
And Dreamy jinxed us so we knew it was coming. I think VVD needs a break personally. Also when you know the opposition are going to be Stoke MK2 then why the hell do you not at least mitigate some of the factors by playing Konate or Philips who will clear the long balls for set pieces?
Another thing that annoyed me was the sluggish passing across the backline. Only Trent was playing first time passes, the other three were putting their foot on the ball and then playing the pass. We did it across the team really, there were so many times when players were open on the flanks and whoever had the ball would take an extra touch and make it easier for West Ham to get back into position. It was pedestrian at times and it made it easy for them to get men behind the ball and to stop us from getting through.
There were so many basics yesterday that just went wrong, but the warning signs have been there before, it's not a huge surprise. Klopp needs a rethink, as we've worryingly said previously.
Thought it also looked like Antonio had his hand on Alissons back as he was jumping. He was sandwiched in-between them.
Very weird that a free kick wasnt given.
The third goal was an extremely well hit set piece by Bowen and equally poor by Alisson.
Ogbonnas arm knocks Alissons out of the way when he's making a play for the ball, thats why I think it's a foul, nothing wrong with Ogbonna and Antonio being physical, but there is a problem with him obstructing Alisson.
Alison should be smashing through them. Keepers can get away with it.
Absolutely this... it’s not as if he’s tiny.
Great at one on ones, sweeping and quick distribution.
Flaps like an old woman’s fanny at crosses all the time.
Definitely, Alisson didn't cover himself in glory, don't change the fact it was a foul for me.
A basic thing when playing against a deep team is at least moving the ball quickly and having movement off the ball.
We had nothing of the sort.
Echo what others are saying. There's not a hope in hell we can compete for the title with these defensive metrics. We've reverted back to the early Klopp years where every game had 5 goals and we're not moving sharply enough to address it.
Alisson was poor yesterday, but that's a non-issue. He'll be back to being brilliant next week. The recurring issues are the defending as a collective and individual is sub-par and lacking in aggression, the midfield are not tracking runners as well as we used to, and are guilty of being careless in possession when the fullbacks are in advanced positions and vulnerable to the counter.
I think we've become a tad soft and complacent. We desperately need another defensively-minded midfielder so everything doesn't go to shit when Fabinho is out, and can also be played in the more combative matches like yesterday. This is the time we need to be putting a good run together before AFCON and we're faltering. Argh.
Alisson was poor yesterday, but that's a non-issue. He'll be back to being brilliant next week. The recurring issues are the defending as a collective and individual is sub-par and lacking in aggression, the midfield are not tracking runners as well as we used to, and are guilty of being careless in possession when the fullbacks are in advanced positions and vulnerable to the counter.
I think we've become a tad soft and complacent. We desperately need another defensively-minded midfielder so everything doesn't go to shit when Fabinho is out, and can also be played in the more combative matches like yesterday. This is the time we need to be putting a good run together before AFCON and we're faltering. Argh.
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Well said. Agree 100%
When was the last time that one of our forward took on a defender in the last third dribbled past him and scored..? And before you say Salah did so twice, both of those times were from inside the opponents goal area where the defenders had to be extra carefull not to give away a penalty.
Our goal come mainly from crosses in to a crowded area, shots from outside the area or corners. We nolonger seem to have the striker that can do that. A Suarez, Torres,Fowler,Owen etc... Yes we have been scoring two and three's. But up against a well drilled defence we struggle.
We take so long to biuld up an attack. Yesterday was a perect example of that. West Ham were able to get players behind the ball, because we gave them the time.
Yes Our defenders made errors. But we had a lack of teeth in attack. The perfect strom if you will
Apart from Suarez, I don’t remember any of the players having to play against the low block. Beating a man is all good and well till you have a second in front of you, then a third.
To beat that low block you need swift one touch passing and movement. We had none of that yesterday apart from when Mané could’ve made it 2-1.
To beat that low block you need swift one touch passing and movement. We had none of that yesterday apart from when Mané could’ve made it 2-1.
Up against a well drilled defence everyone struggles - it would have something to do with the defence being well drilled.
31 goals in 11 league games, 13 goals in 4 Champions League games - and here you are arguing that our attack lacks teeth.
Our problem is clearly with defending - The only debate should be about how to fix it.
When we won the league we did that partly because our defence was the tightest in the league.
Imagine how your head’s going to explode when you figure out which current player is missing from that defensive lineup.
Let's be clear. VAR can't give a free kick, or it would for that challenge. Neither can it give a yellow card.. or again it would have for that challenge as he clearly fouled him. The ref had a shocker there.I've always said consistency is key for refs - if you look at Cresswell's right knee, it could easily have done to Hendo's leg what the T-rex at Everton did to VvD.
It's not intentional, it's not even a foul in our game years ago ... but in today's game? Not even a foul?
I mean I get it - it's not why we lost, there's other reasons but that is at minimum a foul and we didn't even get that ... it's our day summed up in a decision.
"'It didn't have the required force, or intensity, or clear contact’ - which is why he didn't overturn the decision".
So you can tackle that way if there's not required force, or intensity or clear contact? Huh? Where is Creswell's right knee? His fucking left leg is pointing where? Sorry, that's a cop out ... Pogba's wasn't a red either - let's just be consistent.
The thing that saved him was his foot went higher off the top of the ball. Which was a bit like a slip.
You could argue until you are blue in the face, he wasnt in control so it's a red. But the still makes it look worse than it was in reality.
T-Rex was at full speed, Cresswells wasn't. Holgate was also a deserved red.
In regards to the Alisson OG. Ogbonna didn't do anything wrong for me. Antonio did..it was sly. It was clever. The nudge in the back as he went up for the ball. 99/100 its ruled out, VAR were focused on the wrong player for me.
LOL What!! You think Gomez is going to make the difference..?? LOL
How many times have you said to other when they question something to do with the team something like " Do you think that you know better than Klopp" And here you are persuming to know better than him ....
You are right. My head is exploding... With laughter.
Defenders will always make mistaker, Goal keepers too. What hurts is when they make those mistakes on a regular basis...We are not doing that.
We can collectively take our foot off the gas, and have done that in some games that have cost us.
You know what, Fuck It. Lets say that you are right, It does not mean that I am wrong. We as a team may need to sought out the defence problems and the attacking ones too
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