Politics

[mark1975]

Despite everything that's gone on of late, the one thing that really fucks me off in this day and age in football is the political side of things.

The worst example of this was on Sunday, looking at our bench. I suggested after the game that it was ludicrous to have three defenders and three midfielders on there without putting a reserve forward in. As inexperienced as they are, if they can't get a chance when we don't have a striker to call upon, then what's the point?

It was raised that Rodgers was merely pointing out to the owners our lack of depth in this department, in an almost Rafa esque act of defiance to make the issue more widely publicised, to in turn put the pressure on the owners.

I get it, I just don't like it. The number one priority first and foremost should always be the team on the pitch. Some may argue that Morgan/Pacheco or whoever might not have made a difference, they certainly deserve as much a go as Henderson does. Fuck price tags. As if there's some point to be made that had we brought on a reserve striker and made a difference, this would have taken the pressure off the inept dealings of those at the top, it's missing the point and ultimately, potentially cost us.

It's done now, the window is shut, it doesn't look like we're bringing in a freebie so there is only one alternative. Rodgers talks of giving youth a chance as a means to assist his buys and take the pressure off us financially. This is exactly (though admittedly rather criminally) the sort of scenario that should see such ideals put into practice. Promote Morgan and Pacheco or someone else permanently, get them on the bench and see what they can do. When there's overpaid superstars on the pitch failing to pull up trees, it's the perfect time to search for an alternative.

It's exactly the reason Shelvey is where he is now, arguably our inform player, along with that other kid Sterling. Point proven, put the poker shit away, quit with the media spin and counter media spin, we're as poor at that as we are at having a successful transfer window, and let's just concentrate on getting the best of what we've got and promoting youth. Fans, team and gaffa together in the face of alien invasion. Fuck'em.

 

[Judge Jules]

Good post, agree 99%. I can understand Rodgers laying down a marker immediately after being shafted, but it should stop now.

 

[hmmmmm1]

The bench on the weekend was baffling

 

[mark1975]

The bench on the weekend was baffling

It was, and I think that's exactly what he was doing. He's better than that shit.

 

[25_05_05]

Agree completely. Point made by Rodgers to the owners and if we're not signing any free agents then let's see the likes of Pacheco, Morgan, Ngoo and Suso on the bench. Fuck it, let's see Shelvey start and Gerrard on the bench.

 

[hmmmmm1]

Legit question but can Gerrard be **rested**?

Media would have a field day if he was dropped and we lost.

That said after the international break would be the perfect time to do it, as there would be good excuse.

 

[gkmacca]

I must admit I thought the first leg of the Hearts match was similarly political, with Rodgers making a point of telling the media beforehand what an inadequate squad he'd got. As you say,it was very reminiscent of Rafa. It would be sad, however, if now FSG's obduracy about its supposed commitment to youth results in some good youth prospects having their progress jeopardised by being thrown in too soon. Morgan, for example, would, IMHO, still benefit from working out of the spotlight with Borrell on his all-round game, with the odd run-out in first team games when the opposition is tired and the game has opened out; instead he might now be thrown in and dismissed as being out of his depth, with all the 'never going to make it' knee-jerk nonsense following on behind. I hope Rodgers sticks to his guns and protects these kids, while bringing in an experienced player on loan; if the experienced player does well, he'll be a great role model for Morgan et al; if he fails, it won't have long-term damage for the team and its youngsters.

 

[rampage]

I thought he was going to play Coates as centre forward, I was wrong.

I know he's furious that he's left with no other senior strikers until January, but he should choose a different game. Maybe just wrong timing.

 

[mark1975]

I think the bench is the perfect was to protect them though Macca, there's no harm of throwing them into a game that's either well won or out of sight the other way, I don't think many would be expecting them to pull up trees. It's a gradual thing, the odd good turn, a snap shot, a good pass, a good cross, in a 5-15 minute cameo, the crowd show their appreciation and it builds confidence. Like we saw with Sterling - comes on and goes on a good run, get's rapturous applause for it. Look where he is now. Of course it can go the other way and a misplaced pass can be greeted with groans from the crowd, but how else are these kids going to learn? Some times it shows you show's got the belief and strength of character to succeed.

Personally I'd love to see Suso, Pacheco and Morgan promoted on a permanent basis to see what they can achieve.

 

[mark1975]

Legit question but can Gerrard be **rested**?

Media would have a field day if he was dropped and we lost.

That said after the international break would be the perfect time to do it, as there would be good excuse.

They would have a field day, but then he's playing poorly and we're not winning, so.... He needs something, either a stint on the sidelines or a different position, he hasn't looked good in the hole position since Torres left really.

 

[gkmacca]

I think the bench is the perfect was to protect them thought Macca, there's no harm of throwing them into a game that's either well won or out of sight the other way, I don't think many would be expecting them to pull up trees. It's a gradual thing, the odd good turn, a snap shot, a good pass, a good cross, in a 5-15 minute cameo, the crowd show their appreciation and it builds confidence. Like we saw with Sterling - comes on and goes on a good run, get's rapturous applause for it. Look where he is now. Of course it can go the other way and a misplaced pass can be greeted with groans from the crowd, but how else are these kids going to learn? Some times it shows you show's got the belief and strength of character to succeed.

Personally I'd love to see Suso, Pacheco and Morgan promoted on a permanent basis to see what they can achieve.

Oh that's fine and just what I'd advocate. I just meant it would be too much if they were used more than that at this stage. (In the right position of course, not stuck out on the touchline if they're centre forwards!)

 

[juniormember]

Or we're reading too much into it, and Rodgers felt Morgan wasn't ready after the Hearts game.

 

[Mamma Mia]

I honestly don't think he was trying to make a point. I reckon he chose the match day squad that he believed was best placed to get a result.

It's just my opinion though and I can see why some think it was political.

One of the nicest things about Rodgers' teams so far is that he has yet to make a decision that really baffles us, yet consisntently makes big calls - dropping Downing, Carra, etc. The closest I have seen to a regular complaint on here is Borini not playing in the centre, but that ignores the fact that he has almost always been a wing forward.

We had enough out there on Sunday to win the game, but yet again we failed to take our chances and made costly mistakes at the back. I doubt Pacheco or Morgan would have been an option to change that game.

 

[mark1975]

Well the flip side aswell is that seeing a kid come on showing desire, chasing everything down and doing something less predictable can promote a change of attitude or approach from his team mates. Players become too self indulgent when things go wrong and they forget the basics, sometimes it's the kick up the arse that they need, in an indirect way.

 

[Mamma Mia]

Well the flip side aswell is that seeing a kid come on showing desire, chasing everything down and doing something less predictable can promote a change of attitude or approach from his team mates. Players become too self indulgent when things go wrong and they forget the basics, sometimes it's the kick up the arse that they need, in an indirect way.

And that's why I think we will see Yesil on the bench within a month or two. Morgan is not that sort of player. Pacheco could be.

 

[FoxForceFive]

Well the flip side aswell is that seeing a kid come on showing desire, chasing everything down and doing something less predictable can promote a change of attitude or approach from his team mates. Players become too self indulgent when things go wrong and they forget the basics, sometimes it's the kick up the arse that they need, in an indirect way.

That's exactly what sterling has been doing.

 

[mark1975]

And that's why I think we will see Yesil on the bench within a month or two. Morgan is not that sort of player. Pacheco could be.

I'm just using them as examples as they're the obvious choices, I like what I've seen of Pacheco and Morgan is very much an English style striker, all movement but nothing particularly outstanding in terms of overall ability (like Borini).

 

[mark1975]

That's exactly what sterling has been doing.

Exactly.

 

[My_Blood_Bleeds_Red]

Ok let's just sack Rodgers and be done with the politics.

 

[RedZeppelin III]

Petty political games and poor management shouldn't really come as a surprise in the "business' of football . I must admit when i was younger i naively believed that as this was 'professional' football and the height of the sport it must then be of the highest standard across all aspects and management . But the reality is that alot of the people involved probably aren't that well educated or trained in proper management or business skills. The majority of coaches, managers etc usually have a playing background but what other education do they have beyond that ? . Do these Uefa Coaching badges and licences involved business and management courses ? Are these skills addressed in any way by up and coming managers and clubs ?

I mean it's crazy really from a business point of view . You have ex players , coaches and so called Directors Of Football etc making multi-million dollar decisions and 'managing' large financial budgets .
And is there any other sport that attracts so many so called "business " people as owners who then turn out to be useless amateurish fuckwits .

I guess it's the nature of the beast to a degree but it's why none of these games and amateur actions surprise me anymore.

 

[tony]

I mean it's crazy really from a business point of view . You have ex players , coaches and so called Directors Of Football etc making multi-million dollar decisions and 'managing' large financial budgets .
And is there any other sport that attracts so many so called "business " people as owners who then turn out to be useless amateurish fuckwits .

Purslow signing Joe Cole comes to mind

 

[moron]

Well the flip side aswell is that seeing a kid come on showing desire, chasing everything down and doing something less predictable can promote a change of attitude or approach from his team mates. Players become too self indulgent when things go wrong and they forget the basics, sometimes it's the kick up the arse that they need, in an indirect way.

So true - but I did not think it was wise for Rogers to do what he did on Sunday by not bringing on an extra striker from the youth team. We all remember what Mellor did against Arsenal in that game so Rafa would always have one as backup if needs must. I was surprised, mentioned this tactic used by BR which was so obvious and in your face, and its a dangerous thing to do because in the end the senior players won't give a shit.

 

[Mamma Mia]

So what would the correct decision have been?

Leave Carra out completely and have Morgan on the bench? Or should Kelly have been the one to sit out? Or Hendo? Coates?
Should it have been Pacheco on the bench instead of, or in addition to Morgan?

I'm trying to find the ideal scenario here. Enrique is just coming back to fitness, so Kelly had to be on the bench in case GlenJo had to move to the left.
Downing is good cover for any of the front three. Shelvey is effective off the bench and has attacking intent. Henderson gives cover to the midfield, and would also allow for a change up front with Stevie moving forward. Not great options, but this is the squad we have.

So the closest I can guess as to what people would have wanted to see would be Morgan/Pacheco in place of Carra. Is that it?

 

[Hyena]

Carra or Hendo for me. But it could be anyone.

We have 7 substitutes.
3 Midfielders + 3 Defenders is just ridiculous and smells of politics.

 

[Mamma Mia]

So true - but I did not think it was wise for Rogers to do what he did on Sunday by not bringing on an extra striker from the youth team. We all remember what Mellor did against Arsenal in that game so Rafa would always have one as backup if needs must. I was surprised, mentioned this tactic used by BR which was so obvious and in your face, and its a dangerous thing to do because in the end the senior players won't give a shit.

We all moaned about not signing a striker - but so far if you read this thread, one would think we have quite a few more options as to who we play with Suarez. So maybe its not so bad. I have a feeling the team will be that which Cerberus has suggested with a number of possible combinations playing alongside Suarez as it looks like we can afford to be picky in this selection area.

That is your post from the pre-match thread. There was no mention of and youth striking options in that thread. Every line up posted in that thread is exactly what the manager put out (except for Assaidi who was included in 2 proposed line ups, but was not available anyway).

When the team was announced in that thread, everyone was thrilled. Some pointed at the weak bench, but when asked who they would have preferred to be there from our thin squad, Assaidi was the only option mentioned. I think DHSC was the only one who mentioned Morgan before the game.

So is the line between the acceptable thing to do and the dangerous political game simply a case of Morgan preferred over Carra?

If so, that's akin to the claim that the difference between a great transfer window and a disastrous one is Patrick Dempsey.

 

[Mamma Mia]

Carra or Hendo for me. But it could be anyone.

We have 7 substitutes.
3 Midfielders + 3 Defenders is just ridiculous and smells of politics.

For who? Morgan?

 

[Judge Jules]

We all moaned about not signing a striker - but so far if you read this thread, one would think we have quite a few more options as to who we play with Suarez. So maybe its not so bad. I have a feeling the team will be that which Cerberus has suggested with a number of possible combinations playing alongside Suarez as it looks like we can afford to be picky in this selection area.

That is your post from the pre-match thread. There was no mention of and youth striking options in that thread. Every line up posted in that thread is exactly what the manager put out (except for Assaidi who was included in 2 proposed line ups, but was not available anyway).

When the team was announced in that thread, everyone was thrilled. Some pointed at the weak bench, but when asked who they would have preferred to be there from our thin squad, Assaidi was the only option mentioned. I think DHSC was the only one who mentioned Morgan before the game.

So is the line between the acceptable thing to do and the dangerous political game simply a case of Morgan preferred over Carra?

If so, that's akin to the claim that the difference between a great transfer window and a disastrous one is Patrick Dempsey.

If we signed a reheated "Dallas" star like him, that really would be a disastrous window. 😉

 

[Mamma Mia]

Hehe. Indeed it would.

 

[Hyena]

For who? Morgan?

Personally, Pacheco.
But Morgan, Yesil or Ngoo too.
We develop these players for a reason and if they're 18 years old you are old enough for the bench.
Ngoo is 20 and he should really be getting out there. If none of these can get on the bench when there are NO other strikers available something is wrong.

 

[StevieM]

If we signed a reheated "Dallas" star like him, that really would be a disastrous window. 😉

Isn't that Patrick Duffy you're thinking of?