Lucas

[Rosco]

[quote author=Skullflower link=topic=36710.msg972090#msg972090 date=1256588062]
[quote author=rebel23 link=topic=36710.msg972088#msg972088 date=1256587934]
you lot are judging Insua in a game he's too young for, it doesn't mean he's not that good. he is developing and has had difficult games

Again, your being kneejerk writing him off and we dont need any more left backs


[/quote]

he's been getting skinned for pace all season.
[/quote]

That's because of his age though

 

[Skullflower]

[quote author=Rosco link=topic=36710.msg972093#msg972093 date=1256588106]
[quote author=Skullflower link=topic=36710.msg972090#msg972090 date=1256588062]
[quote author=rebel23 link=topic=36710.msg972088#msg972088 date=1256587934]
you lot are judging Insua in a game he's too young for, it doesn't mean he's not that good. he is developing and has had difficult games

Again, your being kneejerk writing him off and we dont need any more left backs


[/quote]

he's been getting skinned for pace all season.
[/quote]

That's because of his age though
[/quote]

he needs a better pace mentality.

 

[Stulikesdrums]

[quote author=Gerry_A_Trick link=topic=36710.msg972072#msg972072 date=1256585409]
Warnock isn't better than what we have.
[/quote]

I would agree with that.
I have watched Warnock regularly and he gets caught out a lot.
He isn't a bad player but he would not be an improvement on Aurelio or Insua.

 

[rebel23]

the pace isnt an issue, his positioning is which will come with experience

he is comfortable against lower table sides and has played well but not against the top sides, surprise fucking surprise. when Reira and Aurelio are fit he will drop to the bench for those games, a happy coincidence because he's a squad player. Warnock and all the other players allegedly better (and older) want 1st team football

 

[Squiggles]

[quote author=rebel23 link=topic=36710.msg972092#msg972092 date=1256588105]
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=36710.msg972076#msg972076 date=1256585594]
Think he means Riise, but yeah, Warnock's better than Insua.

I'm all for giving youth a chance but given Aurelio sometimes defends like a spaz, we really need a solid, defensive LB, who can slot in when needed. A left-footed Arbeloa would be great.
[/quote]

Warnock has experience but that's it, he isnt that good and he wants to play first team football which he wouldnt get at Liverpool whereas Insua will be happy to sit on the bench especially in games he's not old enough for. he is only playing instead of Aurelio because of injuries, what part of this can't you and the others understand?

[/quote]

I've long since argued the point that Rafa's guilty of freezing decent squad players out; Warnock was one of them, however this is only a minor point. The massive error was letting Riise go for a paltry sum and spending double that figure on a useless, idle, fat cunt.

And I'm judging Insua given on what I've seen throughout this season. He started remarkably well last year but has been shoddy this term. We've got three left backs - none of whom can be relied upon. So to say left-back isn't an issue is absurd, IMO.

In short: Aurelio & Riise > Aurelio, Dossena, Insua.

 

[Wizardry]

[quote author=Skullflower link=topic=36710.msg972054#msg972054 date=1256584676]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=36710.msg972053#msg972053 date=1256584612]
[quote author=Brendan link=topic=36710.msg972049#msg972049 date=1256584438]
It's not funny, it's coincidental

And Aurelio is an average left-back defensively

Still, nice to see Agger back and playing well, hopefully Purple Aqui can bring us something fabulous too, even if it is only seeing less of Lucas in the first XI
[/quote]

I really like aurelio but I'm getting more and more desparate to see him start at left back because I'm begining to dislike insua who I don't think is very good at all.
[/quote]

insua is good but he's not fast enough.
[/quote]

It's the first time I've realized this but he looked almost pedestrian on a couple of occasions. He was up against someone of genuine pace but to have 3 yards taken off you over 15 is an awful lot and it would have been more than three if he wasn't holding onto him as he went past.

I've been a fan of Insua since long before he made the first team but he's been gradually eroding my confidence this season. The mancs looked like they wanted to get at him and, despite finding him with close support in one of Mascher/Aurelio/Lucas each time they still made him look a weak link.

I really hope he discovers his form again cause I believe there's a good LB in there but it's hard to cover for pace and he really looked exposed on Sunday.

 

[manwithnoname]

Headwand, I couldn't give a merry fuck about your drivel regarding benches/ youth/ experience/ whatever, the bottom line is that Insewer is TOO FUCKING SLOW to be a good LB, and always fucking will be

See also; Aurelio

 

[keniget]

Insua isn't that slow. The problem is in the main, as has been said, his positioning. He can often get caught too far up field, which leaves him stranded without the pace of someone like Johnson to get back. He also tends to get too tight to his man, which makes it very difficult if that player then turns him.

Hopefully he'll improve in these areas (which were incidentally not Warnock's strong points either) and get better over the course of the next year or so. He's only 20 years old and this is only his first season in in the first team proper. Everyone moans about the fact that we don't bring youths through whilst raving about the latest great hope (despite never really watching the reserves) and then when someone does get a chance, he gets slated to fuck at the first opportunity.

 

[Ryan]

We can debate the abilities (or inabilities as it probably is) of Insua/Aurelio/Dossena all day. But these references to Stephen Warnock, and what we've missed out on by selling him are fucking ludicrous. Have any of you actually watched him play for an extended period of time?

He's reminds me of David Burrows.

 

[Whaddapie]

[quote author=Ryan link=topic=36710.msg972200#msg972200 date=1256604673]
We can debate the abilities (or inabilities as it probably is) of Insua/Aurelio/Dossena all day. But these references to Stephen Warnock, and what we've missed out on by selling him are fucking ludicrous. Have any of you actually watched him play for an extended period of time?

He's reminds me of David Burrows.
[/quote]

I get your general point, but who's obviously better than Insua / Aurelio, other than Evra and Cole? There aren't world class left backs everywhere but Anfield...

I mean, we can't have studs everywhere, and though he'll never be Steve Nicol, I think we've got bigger issues on this team than Insua.

Has Kelly ever played on the left, I wonder?

 

[Ryan]

[quote author=Whaddapie link=topic=36710.msg972214#msg972214 date=1256606409]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=36710.msg972200#msg972200 date=1256604673]
We can debate the abilities (or inabilities as it probably is) of Insua/Aurelio/Dossena all day. But these references to Stephen Warnock, and what we've missed out on by selling him are fucking ludicrous. Have any of you actually watched him play for an extended period of time?

He's reminds me of David Burrows.
[/quote]

I get your general point, but who's obviously better than Insua / Aurelio, other than Evra and Cole? There aren't world class left backs everywhere but Anfield...

I mean, we can't have studs everywhere, and though he'll never be Steve Nicol, I think we've got bigger issues on this team than Insua.

Has Kelly ever played on the left, I wonder?
[/quote]

I might be in the minority, but I think Aurelio's our best option and should play there.

 

[Wizardry]

[quote author=Ryan link=topic=36710.msg972216#msg972216 date=1256606625]
[quote author=Whaddapie link=topic=36710.msg972214#msg972214 date=1256606409]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=36710.msg972200#msg972200 date=1256604673]
We can debate the abilities (or inabilities as it probably is) of Insua/Aurelio/Dossena all day. But these references to Stephen Warnock, and what we've missed out on by selling him are fucking ludicrous. Have any of you actually watched him play for an extended period of time?

He's reminds me of David Burrows.
[/quote]

I get your general point, but who's obviously better than Insua / Aurelio, other than Evra and Cole? There aren't world class left backs everywhere but Anfield...

I mean, we can't have studs everywhere, and though he'll never be Steve Nicol, I think we've got bigger issues on this team than Insua.

Has Kelly ever played on the left, I wonder?
[/quote]

I might be in the minority, but I think Aurelio's our best option and should play there.
[/quote]

Agree - I think Aurelio is our best option just now.

Don't really agree with you on Warnock. He's playing very well for Villa just now and they're hardly leaking goals everywhere. He's completely different sort of player to Insua but he looks for the right ball to play and takes no prisoners in the tackle without getting enless yellows. He's no Patrice Evra but he's certainly no David Burrows either.

 

[Whaddapie]

[quote author=Ryan link=topic=36710.msg972216#msg972216 date=1256606625]
[quote author=Whaddapie link=topic=36710.msg972214#msg972214 date=1256606409]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=36710.msg972200#msg972200 date=1256604673]
We can debate the abilities (or inabilities as it probably is) of Insua/Aurelio/Dossena all day. But these references to Stephen Warnock, and what we've missed out on by selling him are fucking ludicrous. Have any of you actually watched him play for an extended period of time?

He's reminds me of David Burrows.
[/quote]

I get your general point, but who's obviously better than Insua / Aurelio, other than Evra and Cole? There aren't world class left backs everywhere but Anfield...

I mean, we can't have studs everywhere, and though he'll never be Steve Nicol, I think we've got bigger issues on this team than Insua.

Has Kelly ever played on the left, I wonder?
[/quote]

I might be in the minority, but I think Aurelio's our best option and should play there.
[/quote]

Oh, so do I. But you seemed to be saying that you thought we didn't have any good options at LB... My mistake, I think.

 

[spider-Neil]

[quote author=Ryan link=topic=36710.msg972216#msg972216 date=1256606625]
[quote author=Whaddapie link=topic=36710.msg972214#msg972214 date=1256606409]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=36710.msg972200#msg972200 date=1256604673]
We can debate the abilities (or inabilities as it probably is) of Insua/Aurelio/Dossena all day. But these references to Stephen Warnock, and what we've missed out on by selling him are fucking ludicrous. Have any of you actually watched him play for an extended period of time?

He's reminds me of David Burrows.
[/quote]

I get your general point, but who's obviously better than Insua / Aurelio, other than Evra and Cole? There aren't world class left backs everywhere but Anfield...

I mean, we can't have studs everywhere, and though he'll never be Steve Nicol, I think we've got bigger issues on this team than Insua.

Has Kelly ever played on the left, I wonder?
[/quote]

I might be in the minority, but I think Aurelio's our best option and should play there.
[/quote]

you're definately not in a minority judging by the reactions from different forums but I think rafa will stick will insua.

 

[Ryan]

I think what's really important to remember about Insua is that when the rest fo you were creaming yourself over him, I was the first to point out he wasn'tvery good.

Thassright.

 

[dossena]

[quote author=Ryan link=topic=36710.msg972276#msg972276 date=1256628355]
I think what's really important to remember about Insua is that when the rest fo you were creaming yourself over him, I was the first to point out he wasn'tvery good.

Thassright.
[/quote]
He'll be better though I'm sure.

 

[Stulikesdrums]

[quote author=Ryan link=topic=36710.msg972216#msg972216 date=1256606625]
I might be in the minority, but I think Aurelio's our best option and should play there.
[/quote]
Most def.

 

[mark1975]

[quote author=Brendan link=topic=36710.msg972112#msg972112 date=1256590467]
Headwand, I couldn't give a merry fuck about your drivel regarding benches/ youth/ experience/ whatever, the bottom line is that Insewer is TOO FUCKING SLOW to be a good LB, and always fucking will be

See also; Aurelio


[/quote]

I don't see where this is coming from, you've always had a skew view of 'pace', if you're not lightening quick then you're not quick, it almost seems.

Are Insua and Aurelio any slower than say, Finnan and Arbeloa?

 

[KopKing]

Is this thread about Insua and our left backs now? On topic, Lucas was fantastic on Sunday and its a toss up between him and Yossi for man of the match. 'Lungbusting' is how I'd describe his performance. I think his performances this season have been consistent and generally he's been far, far better than Masher all season.

He's the whipping boy now and it'll probably end up with the tag moving onto a different player at some point when people open their eyes and see he's a good player who's improving. He probably needs a goal or two. He can do everything well, he can pass, tackle, run, head, shoot he's selfless and willing. He's a lot stronger now too. I like Lucas, he's become my underdog and I wish him well in every game he plays, and if I knew him I'd tell him to 'Keep it up'.

 

[Judge Jules]

[quote author=KopKing link=topic=36710.msg972388#msg972388 date=1256639278]
Is this thread about Insua and our left backs now? On topic, Lucas was fantastic on Sunday and its a toss up between him and Yossi for man of the match. 'Lungbusting' is how I'd describe his performance. I think his performances this season have been consistent and generally he's been far, far better than Masher all season.

He's the whipping boy now and it'll probably end up with the tag moving onto a different player at some point when people open their eyes and see he's a good player who's improving. He probably needs a goal or two. He can do everything well, he can pass, tackle, run, head, shoot he's selfless and willing. He's a lot stronger now too. I like Lucas, he's become my underdog and I wish him well in every game he plays, and if I knew him I'd tell him to 'Keep it up'.
[/quote]

While I respect that view, I strongly disagree. Lucas has been a lot better this season than he was last, but that's not saying much and he's still essentially a bits and pieces player who shouldn't have become more than a squad member for a top four team. He's won more tackles than before, but anyone who'd prefer to see him rather than Mascher patrolling in front of our back four needs medical attention. At times his passing has been much better than before, but quite often it's still the crabwise sideways stuff. He's making a lot more forward runs, but achieves naff all with them. Mascher's the best out there at one particular skill, i.e.monstering the opposition when they're coming at us. Lucas by contrast is a jack of all trades but a master of absolutely none.

 

[madmax]

[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=36710.msg972367#msg972367 date=1256637104]
[quote author=Brendan link=topic=36710.msg972112#msg972112 date=1256590467]
Headwand, I couldn't give a merry fuck about your drivel regarding benches/ youth/ experience/ whatever, the bottom line is that Insewer is TOO FUCKING SLOW to be a good LB, and always fucking will be

See also; Aurelio


[/quote]

I don't see where this is coming from, you've always had a skew view of 'pace', if you're not lightening quick then you're not quick, it almost seems.

Are Insua and Aurelio any slower than say, Finnan and Arbeloa?
[/quote]

Arbeloa was quick...not as quick as Johnson, but he was not too far away.

 

[doctor_mac]

[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=36710.msg972523#msg972523 date=1256652726]
[quote author=KopKing link=topic=36710.msg972388#msg972388 date=1256639278]
Is this thread about Insua and our left backs now? On topic, Lucas was fantastic on Sunday and its a toss up between him and Yossi for man of the match. 'Lungbusting' is how I'd describe his performance. I think his performances this season have been consistent and generally he's been far, far better than Masher all season.

He's the whipping boy now and it'll probably end up with the tag moving onto a different player at some point when people open their eyes and see he's a good player who's improving. He probably needs a goal or two. He can do everything well, he can pass, tackle, run, head, shoot he's selfless and willing. He's a lot stronger now too. I like Lucas, he's become my underdog and I wish him well in every game he plays, and if I knew him I'd tell him to 'Keep it up'.
[/quote]

While I respect that view, I strongly disagree. Lucas has been a lot better this season than he was last, but that's not saying much and he's still essentially a bits and pieces player who shouldn't have become more than a squad member for a top four team. He's won more tackles than before, but anyone who'd prefer to see him rather than Mascher patrolling in front of our back four needs medical attention. At times his passing has been much better than before, but quite often it's still the crabwise sideways stuff. He's making a lot more forward runs, but achieves naff all with them. Mascher's the best out there at one particular skill, i.e.monstering the opposition when they're coming at us. Lucas by contrast is a jack of all trades but a master of absolutely none.
[/quote]

Well that isn't strictly true in respect of the last game though. Not just the goal, but when he robbed Scholes and ran purposefully at the heart of their defence and set up Kuyt with a terrific chance.

 

[Judge Jules]

I should have been clearer in what I said. What I mainly had in mind was when Lucas gets himself on the end of the final ball, which he's done quite a lot more this season but with bugger all end product. Good point about his forward runs last Sunday, but the fact that they came as such a surprise tells its own story.

 

[rebel23]

Lucas has a fantastic attitude

-
Lucas was among Liverpool's star performers during an excellent team display at the weekend - but he insists he is more focused on further developing his game than on revelling in the many plaudits coming his way.

"To be honest, I have heard a lot of things said about me, but I don't really read the newspapers," said the 22-year-old. "Maybe I should when people start writing good things about me! But I'm just trying to be focused on my game.

"I have the confidence from Rafa. Rafa is really important for me at the moment. He's given me my chance. On Sunday, it wasn't just about me showing quality, it was about the whole team showing it. I still have to improve a lot, but hopefully I can keep playing.

"I feel I am growing in confidence this season. I am a totally different player to the one that arrived at Liverpool. I'm still young, and the criticism just makes me stronger to keep working and keep focused because that's the only thing that can help me improve."

 

[LarryHagman]

Fair's fair, Lucas was great against Utd. If he was that good every week, there would be no debate. But, let's face facts, he's nothing like that standard week in week out. The last time he was that good was away at Newcastle that time. When was that? Will we have to wait that long for another good game? Hope not.
Still, let's hope this is the start of something. Put it this way, Paul Scholes looked decidedly FINISHED last Sunday, Lucas out-stripped him big time.

As for left-back, Aurelio is our current best although he is no World-beater. Unless Insua makes positive strides, this is a position of concern. The current Insua isn't good enough but, granted, he's only 20. Time will tell. Aurelio will do at left-wing for now seeing as Riera is the latest hate figure for Benitez.

 

[Judge Jules]

[quote author=rebel23 link=topic=36710.msg973386#msg973386 date=1256742682]
Lucas has a fantastic attitude

-
Lucas was among Liverpool's star performers during an excellent team display at the weekend - but he insists he is more focused on further developing his game than on revelling in the many plaudits coming his way.

"To be honest, I have heard a lot of things said about me, but I don't really read the newspapers," said the 22-year-old. "Maybe I should when people start writing good things about me! But I'm just trying to be focused on my game.

"I have the confidence from Rafa. Rafa is really important for me at the moment. He's given me my chance. On Sunday, it wasn't just about me showing quality, it was about the whole team showing it. I still have to improve a lot, but hopefully I can keep playing.

"I feel I am growing in confidence this season. I am a totally different player to the one that arrived at Liverpool. I'm still young, and the criticism just makes me stronger to keep working and keep focused because that's the only thing that can help me improve."

[/quote]

That is indeed a good attitude, but like Larry I'm not convinced Lucas has the quality needed to "walk the walk" and perform at the required level consistently enough to be a first choice for us. Squad player, yes, but not more IMO, though I'll be delighted if he proves me wrong.

 

[Squiggles]

I'd rather see:

Insua Aurelio

Aurelio than Babel


Until Riera's fit, we should keep our left side the same.