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Lucas

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The thing is, such is Brendan's absolutism regarding Lucas, he can go to war arguing that he is competent, sometimes.

I don't think even Ryan thinks he'll be first choice in a Liverpool team that excels and we can be proud of. Maybe he does.

Lucas has creditable self-belief given the (often justified) criticism he's come under. He's played quite well. He's also benefited massively by comparison to Poulsen.
 
[quote author=crump link=topic=42633.msg1213668#msg1213668 date=1289169172]
Ryan, while you would have a point if Lucas does turn out good, you're going to war on a very flimsy prospectus.
[/quote]

Hardly war Crump.

You reap what you sow. He's made 3 years out of disgracing himself on this one. It's rightly going to get thrown back at him whenever Lucas puts in displays like he did today.
 
[quote author=Farkmaster link=topic=42633.msg1213669#msg1213669 date=1289169493]
The thing is, such is Brendan's absolutism regarding Lucas, he can go to war arguing that he is competent, sometimes.

I don't think even Ryan thinks he'll be first choice in a Liverpool team that excels and we can be proud of. Maybe he does.

Lucas has creditable self-belief given the (often justified) criticism he's come under. He's played quite well. He's also benefited massively by comparison to Poulsen.
[/quote]

Heh, "absolutism". Spot on.
 
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=42633.msg1213677#msg1213677 date=1289171312]
lucas blesses the day poulsen was signed.
[/quote]

What a load of bollox.
 
Lucas has been pretty good the last few weeks, but he hardly set himself a high personal standard to beat!

He might go on to be a decent player. I hope so. But those who said he was shit before weren't wrong at the time were they?
 
No, they weren't. He's been very mediocre during his time here overall.

I've tended to balance criticism of Lucas out by acknowledging that I do think there is a reasonable player hidden away somewhere in there, but perhaps one that isn't overly suited to the Premiership.

I've been happy enough with his contributions over the last few games, but whether or not this can be classed as some kind of turning point remains to be seen.
 
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=42633.msg1213561#msg1213561 date=1289163208]
I love how much it's utterly paining Brendan to post in this thread. Not as much as it must utterly pain him to watch Lucas play well. Sitting there praying that he fucks up or has a shit game. Ha ha fucking ha.

Face it Bren, if he continues with this form it should be the end of you as a Liverpool supporter nevermind this forum.
[/quote]

Ryan, to be fair this is not a thing for you to claim.."I called it".

You were saying Lucas was a good player when he was playing utterly shite football. You didn't say he had potential to be a good player, you said he was already there. But he was not....

Many on this forum have acknowledge that he worked hard to improve. But many feared or were sure that he won't be able to improve to the level he wants to. He has put in a run of performance that will change that, if he keeps it up. But it doesn't change that he was a shitty player before.
 
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=42633.msg1213671#msg1213671 date=1289170926]
[quote author=crump link=topic=42633.msg1213668#msg1213668 date=1289169172]
Ryan, while you would have a point if Lucas does turn out good, you're going to war on a very flimsy prospectus.
[/quote]

Hardly war Crump.

You reap what you sow. He's made 3 years out of disgracing himself on this one. It's rightly going to get thrown back at him whenever Lucas puts in displays like he did today.
[/quote]

But for three years Lucas was shite! Only a blind would disagree.

For 4 or 5 games now Lucas has put in some good performance that makes people think Lucas has entered a new chapter as a footballer at Liverpool. Brendan doesn't think thats the case....He may or may not be right (I too think/hope he is not), but do you want to bank on Lucas to prove you right and Brendan wrong?
 
[quote author=kingjulian link=topic=42633.msg1213728#msg1213728 date=1289186825]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=42633.msg1213671#msg1213671 date=1289170926]
[quote author=crump link=topic=42633.msg1213668#msg1213668 date=1289169172]
Ryan, while you would have a point if Lucas does turn out good, you're going to war on a very flimsy prospectus.
[/quote]

Hardly war Crump.

You reap what you sow. He's made 3 years out of disgracing himself on this one. It's rightly going to get thrown back at him whenever Lucas puts in displays like he did today.
[/quote]

But for three years Lucas was shite! Only a blind would disagree.

For 4 or 5 games now Lucas has put in some good performance that makes people think Lucas has entered a new chapter as a footballer at Liverpool. Brendan doesn't think thats the case....He may or may not be right (I too think/hope he is not), but do you want to bank on Lucas to prove you right and Brendan wrong?


[/quote]

For 3 years Lucas may have been shit and probably still is but let's not forget that he came over as a young buck to another continent and probably the best league in the world. Its was always going to be a steep learning curve for him. He has endured more criticsm than most for his displays and has continued to put in the hard work despite the constant criticism.

Yesterday's performance is testament to his mental strength as much as the hard work that he puts in. His improved performances in the last month don't suddenly make him a worldbeater but his stock has went up and we are recognising his improvement. He deserves all the plaudits he gets.
 
The king of midfield, even eclipsing Meireles and Gerrard, was Lucas, the Brazilian who seized the responsibility demanded of a central two against Chelsea’s three. Lucas was immense, tackling relentlessly, closing down John Obi Mikel, Zhirkov and Ramires, cutting the supply lines to Malouda, Anelka, Salomon Kalou and, later, Drogba.

Henry Winter's words not mine
 
Henry Winter is a prat, and we were lucky that Lucas didn't have to face Lampard's running from midfield which IMO would have caused him problems, but regardless of that it's true that he played very well against the Chavs.
 
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=42633.msg1213857#msg1213857 date=1289213028]
I dont understand why there had to be caveats?
He was excellent.
[/quote]

It's hard for some to acknowledge his good form when they wrote him off forever at the age of 20.
 
Didn't intend to be mean, fellas (hence the "regardless of that" bit). Just trying to keep a bit of perspective. Point taken though.
 
Fair play to Lucas he's played well of late (hopefully he can keep it up).

I still think "oh shit" whenever i see his name on the team sheet though.
 
[quote author=Mamma Mia link=topic=42633.msg1213859#msg1213859 date=1289213221]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=42633.msg1213857#msg1213857 date=1289213028]
I dont understand why there had to be caveats?
He was excellent.
[/quote]

It's hard for some to acknowledge his good form when they wrote him off forever at the age of 20.
[/quote]Jesus ive written him off too. But id rather be known as a 'flipflopper' than someone who dogmatically sticks to an opinion formed regardless of the evidence in front of them.
Football is fluid and it changes, the best team in the world are only the best while theyre playing the best. Lucas is doing everything you could ask of him and thats good enough for me. If he loses form then he should be dropped, but EVERYONE should now admit he can play football.
 
[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=42633.msg1213864#msg1213864 date=1289213444]
Fair play to Lucas he's played well of late (hopefully he can keep it up).

I still think "oh shit" whenever i see his name on the team sheet though.


[/quote]Seei really dont anymore. He's in my best team at the minute based on the options available. I think him and Gerrard work well together.
 
lucas game has improved because he releases the ball faster and plays less sideways passes. whoever is responsible for that deserves credit be it lucas himself or roy.
 
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=42633.msg1213857#msg1213857 date=1289213028]
I dont understand why there had to be caveats?
He was excellent.
[/quote]

Well if people are going to take the fact that he has had a couple of decent games as some kind of proof that anyone who labelled him shit was wrong then that will always invite argument won't it?

I'm pleased that Lucas is playing well, simply because the more of our players play well the more chance we have of winning, and I really hope he keeps it up, but given that he has been largely fucking awful before the last few weeks then I can't say I am hugely confident.
 
I think that is the real problem with the forum, a lot of this is not about Liverpool doing well or badly, it's about people's ego's and being right all the time .
There is a significant percentage of the membership that make their mind up about someone or something and regardless of the evidence, stick to it dogmatically and will not allow their point of view to change, it is seen as a sign of weakness. It is seen as a sign of weakness quite reasonably perhaps, as others wait in the wings to leap out and say "I told you so" which is the other real problem.

We have a case in point here with this very thread.

Lucas, as many have observed has been largely average for three years, and on the balance of the evidence so far , that is what he is - average.
Because of a thin squad and lack of other options he has been played more than he should have, he has also been played in a position that does not suit him for much of that time.
Now we see him have a few games in a slightly more advanced role and he looks a different player, I remain to be convinced if he is actually any more than average, but every dog has his day and I am pleased for him and the team, it is a real positive, let's hope he keeps it up.
Although I am sure there is an element that hope he falls flat on his face again quickly, regardless if that is good for Liverpool FC or not.
Probably the same people wishing for us to get beaten so that Hodgson got the sack

regards
 
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