That's very funny. Seriously, that person has to be taking the piss.
Lucas
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He's not. Someone then commented on it....
"Whoa - you really have got an eye for these things. Imagine a whole team playing on the same wavelength, creating and moving into space and passing."
Earlier on, someone posted...
I even cried "He IS Brazilian" when he did that back heel that started the movement for our "almost" third goal.
I reckon Brendan has dissociative identity disorder and unbeknownst to him (his Brendan identity), his alter ego posts under numerous pseudonyms over there. It would explain a lot.
"Whoa - you really have got an eye for these things. Imagine a whole team playing on the same wavelength, creating and moving into space and passing."
Earlier on, someone posted...
I even cried "He IS Brazilian" when he did that back heel that started the movement for our "almost" third goal.
I reckon Brendan has dissociative identity disorder and unbeknownst to him (his Brendan identity), his alter ego posts under numerous pseudonyms over there. It would explain a lot.
Zlatan - if you're going to call someone "thick" it helps if your spelling is correct.
[quote author=zlatan18 link=topic=42633.msg1214258#msg1214258 date=1289253912]
[quote author=SaintGeorge67 link=topic=42633.msg1214227#msg1214227 date=1289249790]
Zlatan - if you're going to call someone "thick" it helps if your spelling is correct.
[/quote]
Please do tell what was incorrect in my post calling him "thick"
[/quote]Its Youre (you are) just thick. Not 'your'.
[quote author=SaintGeorge67 link=topic=42633.msg1214227#msg1214227 date=1289249790]
Zlatan - if you're going to call someone "thick" it helps if your spelling is correct.
[/quote]
Please do tell what was incorrect in my post calling him "thick"
[/quote]Its Youre (you are) just thick. Not 'your'.
[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=42633.msg1213885#msg1213885 date=1289215533]
I think that is the real problem with the forum, a lot of this is not about Liverpool doing well or badly, it's about people's ego's and being right all the time .
There is a significant percentage of the membership that make their mind up about someone or something and regardless of the evidence, stick to it dogmatically and will not allow their point of view to change, it is seen as a sign of weakness. It is seen as a sign of weakness quite reasonably perhaps, as others wait in the wings to leap out and say "I told you so" which is the other real problem.
We have a case in point here with this very thread.
Lucas, as many have observed has been largely average for three years, and on the balance of the evidence so far , that is what he is - average.
Because of a thin squad and lack of other options he has been played more than he should have, he has also been played in a position that does not suit him for much of that time.
Now we see him have a few games in a slightly more advanced role and he looks a different player, I remain to be convinced if he is actually any more than average, but every dog has his day and I am pleased for him and the team, it is a real positive, let's hope he keeps it up.
Although I am sure there is an element that hope he falls flat on his face again quickly, regardless if that is good for Liverpool FC or not.
Probably the same people wishing for us to get beaten so that Hodgson got the sack
regards
[/quote]
Agree with every word of that.
I think that is the real problem with the forum, a lot of this is not about Liverpool doing well or badly, it's about people's ego's and being right all the time .
There is a significant percentage of the membership that make their mind up about someone or something and regardless of the evidence, stick to it dogmatically and will not allow their point of view to change, it is seen as a sign of weakness. It is seen as a sign of weakness quite reasonably perhaps, as others wait in the wings to leap out and say "I told you so" which is the other real problem.
We have a case in point here with this very thread.
Lucas, as many have observed has been largely average for three years, and on the balance of the evidence so far , that is what he is - average.
Because of a thin squad and lack of other options he has been played more than he should have, he has also been played in a position that does not suit him for much of that time.
Now we see him have a few games in a slightly more advanced role and he looks a different player, I remain to be convinced if he is actually any more than average, but every dog has his day and I am pleased for him and the team, it is a real positive, let's hope he keeps it up.
Although I am sure there is an element that hope he falls flat on his face again quickly, regardless if that is good for Liverpool FC or not.
Probably the same people wishing for us to get beaten so that Hodgson got the sack
regards
[/quote]
Agree with every word of that.
People at work (not Liverpool fans) were raving about him yesterday.
[quote author=kingjulian link=topic=42633.msg1214085#msg1214085 date=1289237831]
[quote author=Le Chacal link=topic=42633.msg1214066#msg1214066 date=1289236302]
His best match for LFC, no doubt about it. To say he was MOM is way exagerated though. Torres, Reina, Gerrard were the best.
I hope Roy plays the same team against Wigan. Gerrard in the middle behind 2 strikers changes everything.
[/quote]
This.
People try to be too clever when it comes to picking the man of the match. The 'look i can appreciate finer things' elitist syndrome.
Football is a simple game. There is no way i'd be willing to look past anyone other than Torres for man of the match.
The First goal was a great finish, and the second was a brilliant solo effort that gave us the cushion without which we would have panicked in the second half.
[/quote]
Torres was MOM yesterday.
Sky said so.
[quote author=Le Chacal link=topic=42633.msg1214066#msg1214066 date=1289236302]
His best match for LFC, no doubt about it. To say he was MOM is way exagerated though. Torres, Reina, Gerrard were the best.
I hope Roy plays the same team against Wigan. Gerrard in the middle behind 2 strikers changes everything.
[/quote]
This.
People try to be too clever when it comes to picking the man of the match. The 'look i can appreciate finer things' elitist syndrome.
Football is a simple game. There is no way i'd be willing to look past anyone other than Torres for man of the match.
The First goal was a great finish, and the second was a brilliant solo effort that gave us the cushion without which we would have panicked in the second half.
[/quote]
Torres was MOM yesterday.
Sky said so.
Why is Lucas Leiva the only player in recorded history who has highlight reels which mostly consist of him doing ordinary things?
It actually has the opposite effect. I thought he had a good game, but if people seeking to persuade me that he's really good use as their evidence video displaying competency, some good play, a bunch of ordinary passes, flopping over, and getting away with fouls, I begin to wonder what the standards are. I also wonder whether I want to be in league with possibly the saddest pathetic person on the internet; the guy making lucas highlight videos.
It actually has the opposite effect. I thought he had a good game, but if people seeking to persuade me that he's really good use as their evidence video displaying competency, some good play, a bunch of ordinary passes, flopping over, and getting away with fouls, I begin to wonder what the standards are. I also wonder whether I want to be in league with possibly the saddest pathetic person on the internet; the guy making lucas highlight videos.
[quote author=Farkmaster link=topic=42633.msg1214336#msg1214336 date=1289268146]
Why is Lucas Leiva the only player in recorded history who has highlight reels which mostly consist of him doing ordinary things?
It actually has the opposite effect. I thought he had a good game, but if people seeking to persuade me that he's really good use as their evidence video displaying competency, some good play, and a bunch of ordinary passes, flopping over, and getting away with fouls, I begin to wonder what the standards are. I also wonder whether I want to be in league with possibly the saddest pathetic person on the internet; the guy making lucas highlight videos.
[/quote]
Ha. Very true.
Why is Lucas Leiva the only player in recorded history who has highlight reels which mostly consist of him doing ordinary things?
It actually has the opposite effect. I thought he had a good game, but if people seeking to persuade me that he's really good use as their evidence video displaying competency, some good play, and a bunch of ordinary passes, flopping over, and getting away with fouls, I begin to wonder what the standards are. I also wonder whether I want to be in league with possibly the saddest pathetic person on the internet; the guy making lucas highlight videos.
[/quote]
Ha. Very true.
I don't buy the argument that Lucas was "an utter shite for 3 years" and then, all of a sudden, he had this great game against Chelsea. That's just not true. While yesterday's performance was probably his best so far in a red shirt, Lucas did produce a number of quality, if not spectacular, performances in the past. There were many average or below average performances too, although not too many really awful ones, unless you think Carra or Gerrard have never given away a stupid penalty or a free kick before. But looking at the overall picture, there were enough signs of an emerging decent player in him. I saw those signs and so did Rafa and now Roy.
It's not Lucas's fault that some fans did not have any patience whatsoever to allow a young player gradually learn his trade and were looking for somebody to make a villain of. Whatever you think of Lucas, just his mental fortitude he showed in those circumstances is hugely impressive. People will this kind of inner confidence usually win at whatever they do.
It's not Lucas's fault that some fans did not have any patience whatsoever to allow a young player gradually learn his trade and were looking for somebody to make a villain of. Whatever you think of Lucas, just his mental fortitude he showed in those circumstances is hugely impressive. People will this kind of inner confidence usually win at whatever they do.
[quote author=Farkmaster link=topic=42633.msg1214336#msg1214336 date=1289268146]
Why is Lucas Leiva the only player in recorded history who has highlight reels which mostly consist of him doing ordinary things?
It actually has the opposite effect. I thought he had a good game, but if people seeking to persuade me that he's really good use as their evidence video displaying competency, some good play, a bunch of ordinary passes, flopping over, and getting away with fouls, I begin to wonder what the standards are. I also wonder whether I want to be in league with possibly the saddest pathetic person on the internet; the guy making lucas highlight videos.
[/quote]
Yup, imagine what would happen when he actually score a hattrick or even score a spectacular goal?
Why is Lucas Leiva the only player in recorded history who has highlight reels which mostly consist of him doing ordinary things?
It actually has the opposite effect. I thought he had a good game, but if people seeking to persuade me that he's really good use as their evidence video displaying competency, some good play, a bunch of ordinary passes, flopping over, and getting away with fouls, I begin to wonder what the standards are. I also wonder whether I want to be in league with possibly the saddest pathetic person on the internet; the guy making lucas highlight videos.
[/quote]
Yup, imagine what would happen when he actually score a hattrick or even score a spectacular goal?
[quote author=Y1 link=topic=42633.msg1214352#msg1214352 date=1289273205]
[quote author=Farkmaster link=topic=42633.msg1214336#msg1214336 date=1289268146]
Why is Lucas Leiva the only player in recorded history who has highlight reels which mostly consist of him doing ordinary things?
It actually has the opposite effect. I thought he had a good game, but if people seeking to persuade me that he's really good use as their evidence video displaying competency, some good play, a bunch of ordinary passes, flopping over, and getting away with fouls, I begin to wonder what the standards are. I also wonder whether I want to be in league with possibly the saddest pathetic person on the internet; the guy making lucas highlight videos.
[/quote]
Yup, imagine what would happen when he actually score a hattrick or even score a spectacular goal?
[/quote]
But it's not his job to score hat-tricks! How many goals have Obi Mikel scored? Or Busquets? Or Makelele for that matter? Players of this sort don't score much and don't create many goals either - but they allow their teammates be much more free in attack because they know someone will always cover their ass. This reminds me of a statement like "McDonald's can be a part of a balanced and healthy diet" (bollocks!), but in this case it's true - a player like Lucas or Busquets CAN be a part of a powerful attacking midfield machine. Just don't make him a play-maker.
[quote author=Farkmaster link=topic=42633.msg1214336#msg1214336 date=1289268146]
Why is Lucas Leiva the only player in recorded history who has highlight reels which mostly consist of him doing ordinary things?
It actually has the opposite effect. I thought he had a good game, but if people seeking to persuade me that he's really good use as their evidence video displaying competency, some good play, a bunch of ordinary passes, flopping over, and getting away with fouls, I begin to wonder what the standards are. I also wonder whether I want to be in league with possibly the saddest pathetic person on the internet; the guy making lucas highlight videos.
[/quote]
Yup, imagine what would happen when he actually score a hattrick or even score a spectacular goal?
[/quote]
But it's not his job to score hat-tricks! How many goals have Obi Mikel scored? Or Busquets? Or Makelele for that matter? Players of this sort don't score much and don't create many goals either - but they allow their teammates be much more free in attack because they know someone will always cover their ass. This reminds me of a statement like "McDonald's can be a part of a balanced and healthy diet" (bollocks!), but in this case it's true - a player like Lucas or Busquets CAN be a part of a powerful attacking midfield machine. Just don't make him a play-maker.
[quote author=rurikbird link=topic=42633.msg1214350#msg1214350 date=1289273056]
I don't buy the argument that Lucas was "an utter shite for 3 years" and then, all of a sudden, he had this great game against Chelsea. That's just not true. While yesterday's performance was probably his best so far in a red shirt, Lucas did produce a number of quality, if not spectacular, performances in the past. There were many average or below average performances too, although not too many really awful ones, unless you think Carra or Gerrard have never given away a stupid penalty or a free kick before. But looking at the overall picture, there were enough signs of an emerging decent player in him. I saw those signs and so did Rafa and now Roy.
It's not Lucas's fault that some fans did not have any patience whatsoever to allow a young player gradually learn his trade and were looking for somebody to make a villain of. Whatever you think of Lucas, just his mental fortitude he showed in those circumstances is hugely impressive. People will this kind of inner confidence usually win at whatever they do.
[/quote]
Fucking bang on.
I don't buy the argument that Lucas was "an utter shite for 3 years" and then, all of a sudden, he had this great game against Chelsea. That's just not true. While yesterday's performance was probably his best so far in a red shirt, Lucas did produce a number of quality, if not spectacular, performances in the past. There were many average or below average performances too, although not too many really awful ones, unless you think Carra or Gerrard have never given away a stupid penalty or a free kick before. But looking at the overall picture, there were enough signs of an emerging decent player in him. I saw those signs and so did Rafa and now Roy.
It's not Lucas's fault that some fans did not have any patience whatsoever to allow a young player gradually learn his trade and were looking for somebody to make a villain of. Whatever you think of Lucas, just his mental fortitude he showed in those circumstances is hugely impressive. People will this kind of inner confidence usually win at whatever they do.
[/quote]
Fucking bang on.
While i do agree that he has had the odd good game before, his performance ranged from average to below average in most cases, and there was the odd shockingly rubbish game as well. To say that he never had an awful game is bollox, and it flies in the face of people who have had the misfortune of watching him learn the trade at the expense of their teams performance.
You just need to do a comparison of points scored with Lucas in the team and Lucas not in the team in the last 3 years to see what actually happened. I think that is a substantial sample size and the other factors would even out by and large. Even a possession % and pass completion comparison for the team when he is in the team and not in the team would be telling.
His most recent shocking performance came against Everton. We were murdered in midfield in that game, and he may as well have not turned up for the game.
Even now if he is not able to perform at the level he has shown in the last three games consistently, he needs to be benched. We need to pick a team to win now. We can't accommodate players who will learn to be consistent in the future.
To use this performance from the past three games as some form of vindicative relief and treat us to a huge helping of "I told you so" is un fucking called for....
You just need to do a comparison of points scored with Lucas in the team and Lucas not in the team in the last 3 years to see what actually happened. I think that is a substantial sample size and the other factors would even out by and large. Even a possession % and pass completion comparison for the team when he is in the team and not in the team would be telling.
His most recent shocking performance came against Everton. We were murdered in midfield in that game, and he may as well have not turned up for the game.
Even now if he is not able to perform at the level he has shown in the last three games consistently, he needs to be benched. We need to pick a team to win now. We can't accommodate players who will learn to be consistent in the future.
To use this performance from the past three games as some form of vindicative relief and treat us to a huge helping of "I told you so" is un fucking called for....
Yes he has had a few woeful Derby performances actually. Its one of the main reasons I dont like him.
Vlad summed it up perfectly in this thread.
There are those who refuse to even give credit for a good performance...like Brendan
and there are those who refuse to stop shoving this as the conclusive evidence that they have been right on Lucas being a good player all along....like Ryan
I would leave this at saying he had a very good performance against Chelsea and he has been in a run of good form recently. But it says nothing about the past or the future.
I'm going to give this thread a miss....
There are those who refuse to even give credit for a good performance...like Brendan
and there are those who refuse to stop shoving this as the conclusive evidence that they have been right on Lucas being a good player all along....like Ryan
I would leave this at saying he had a very good performance against Chelsea and he has been in a run of good form recently. But it says nothing about the past or the future.
I'm going to give this thread a miss....
I'm not using this as any sort of "conclusive evidence" and I'd be keen to see how you've come to that conclusion.
I've always maintained he was a good player, always. He's got some great attributes. That said, he's struggled to show it more often than not. It has frustrated me endlessly that he doesn't 'do' more. That he doesn't take the game on more, that he (for the most part) seems to be happy to glide through games without leaving an impact on it's proceedings, or by merely just waiting for things to happen to him. I don't see this Chelsea game as some sort of 'moment' whereby all of those problems will somehow be eliminated, in fact I'm quite the opposite. He'll still meander through an awful lot of games doing next to nothing, driving me insane.
The big problem now though is that this performance has amde him a rod for his back. Supporter now will expect him to be like that every week, and you know what, if we was a Reina or a Carragher or a Gerrard, he'd want to deliver performances like that every fucking week cos it's in their psyche to be winners and drive themselves forward. Lucas is a different cat. He doesn't have that. Unfortunately now everyone knows how well he can play, they won't let him away with the dross ones.
He didn't wake up on Sunday with footballing abaility he never had before. He's always been capable of playing like he did against Chelsea. The challenge now is to make those performances happen more often.
I've always disputed that he is a "cunt" and/or "fucking shit" because I thought there was a footballer in there somewhere. He's not shit in the slightest, he's clearly a capable footballer. He just seems too happy to drift along, and I'm not sure if that will be eradicated from his game just cos he had one good game against the League Champions.
Apols for the inevitable typos in this post too, I'm typing in a bit of a hurry.
I've always maintained he was a good player, always. He's got some great attributes. That said, he's struggled to show it more often than not. It has frustrated me endlessly that he doesn't 'do' more. That he doesn't take the game on more, that he (for the most part) seems to be happy to glide through games without leaving an impact on it's proceedings, or by merely just waiting for things to happen to him. I don't see this Chelsea game as some sort of 'moment' whereby all of those problems will somehow be eliminated, in fact I'm quite the opposite. He'll still meander through an awful lot of games doing next to nothing, driving me insane.
The big problem now though is that this performance has amde him a rod for his back. Supporter now will expect him to be like that every week, and you know what, if we was a Reina or a Carragher or a Gerrard, he'd want to deliver performances like that every fucking week cos it's in their psyche to be winners and drive themselves forward. Lucas is a different cat. He doesn't have that. Unfortunately now everyone knows how well he can play, they won't let him away with the dross ones.
He didn't wake up on Sunday with footballing abaility he never had before. He's always been capable of playing like he did against Chelsea. The challenge now is to make those performances happen more often.
I've always disputed that he is a "cunt" and/or "fucking shit" because I thought there was a footballer in there somewhere. He's not shit in the slightest, he's clearly a capable footballer. He just seems too happy to drift along, and I'm not sure if that will be eradicated from his game just cos he had one good game against the League Champions.
Apols for the inevitable typos in this post too, I'm typing in a bit of a hurry.
I just don't think that's right Ryan. I think he's got the mentality, he's just not a very powerful athlete, which is a problem in his position. He gets bullied and bypassed, and no amount of improvement to his psyche, which I agree would benefit from aggression, is going to sort that out.
[quote author=Farkmaster link=topic=42633.msg1214386#msg1214386 date=1289287943]
I just don't think that's right Ryan. I think he's got the mentality, he's just not a very powerful athlete, which is a problem in his position. He gets bullied and bypassed, and no amount of improvement to his psyche, which I agree would benefit from aggression, is going to sort that out.
[/quote]
Hamann wasnt a very powerful athlete and smoked 20 fags a day on top of that.
I just don't think that's right Ryan. I think he's got the mentality, he's just not a very powerful athlete, which is a problem in his position. He gets bullied and bypassed, and no amount of improvement to his psyche, which I agree would benefit from aggression, is going to sort that out.
[/quote]
Hamann wasnt a very powerful athlete and smoked 20 fags a day on top of that.
How old was Darren Fletcher when he stopped being shit and started becoming one of United's most consistent players? I do wonder ('blindly hope' is probably more accurate) whether Lucas can become a similar kind of player for us.
Having said that, it's only three decent games, one of them excellent. He'll have to show it over a longer period before I really get my hopes up.
Tbh, even on that highlights video of his best ever match for us, he still looked slightly, familiarly hapless on a couple of occasions.
Having said that, it's only three decent games, one of them excellent. He'll have to show it over a longer period before I really get my hopes up.
Tbh, even on that highlights video of his best ever match for us, he still looked slightly, familiarly hapless on a couple of occasions.
[quote author=Mistadobalina link=topic=42633.msg1214389#msg1214389 date=1289288179]
[quote author=Farkmaster link=topic=42633.msg1214386#msg1214386 date=1289287943]
I just don't think that's right Ryan. I think he's got the mentality, he's just not a very powerful athlete, which is a problem in his position. He gets bullied and bypassed, and no amount of improvement to his psyche, which I agree would benefit from aggression, is going to sort that out.
[/quote]
Hamann wasnt a very powerful athlete and smoked 20 fags a day on top of that.
[/quote]
He was smarter than lucas, he could intercept with ease without running all over the shop
[quote author=Farkmaster link=topic=42633.msg1214386#msg1214386 date=1289287943]
I just don't think that's right Ryan. I think he's got the mentality, he's just not a very powerful athlete, which is a problem in his position. He gets bullied and bypassed, and no amount of improvement to his psyche, which I agree would benefit from aggression, is going to sort that out.
[/quote]
Hamann wasnt a very powerful athlete and smoked 20 fags a day on top of that.
[/quote]
He was smarter than lucas, he could intercept with ease without running all over the shop
I'm not sure what's the actual issue in this thread.
He's had many many poor games, and he's had a few good ones.
He might not be shit, but when the good performances are so few and so far between it's a bit difficult to call him a good player.
I hope he keeps this up though.
One thing that we can all agree on, I think..is that he HAS shown a tremedous attitude through it all..better players than him (in similar situations) have continually whined about not being trusted by the manager or ketp mumbling about plying their trade elsewhere.
He's had many many poor games, and he's had a few good ones.
He might not be shit, but when the good performances are so few and so far between it's a bit difficult to call him a good player.
I hope he keeps this up though.
One thing that we can all agree on, I think..is that he HAS shown a tremedous attitude through it all..better players than him (in similar situations) have continually whined about not being trusted by the manager or ketp mumbling about plying their trade elsewhere.
I'm just happy lucas is cutting out the stuff that used to piss me off like holding onto the ball too long allowing the opposition to get in a challenge when he was doing this he was a liability, so it's pleasing he has the ability to learn and improve.
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