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Lucas Leiva - Wonderman.

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[quote author=Sunny link=topic=47619.msg1431544#msg1431544 date=1322135813]
If only we still had Alonso
[/quote]

well, quite.

alonso is exactly what I'm talking about with regards to shielding the defense and adding something going forwards. we came 7th went he fucked off. sure there are lots of reasons for such a poor finish but the loss of alonso has to be the biggest. put it this way if we had alonso I think we would make top 4 at a canter.
 
[quote author=Fabio link=topic=47619.msg1431554#msg1431554 date=1322137305]
*uses power of greyskull not to bite*
[/quote]

yes, I realise I'm pining over a player we don't have rather than getting on with it but it's xabi. XABI! I get a free pass to pine over alonso.
 
It has to be said we had an awesome midfield with Alonso and Mascherano. It could be many years before we have that again.
 
[quote author=gene hughes link=topic=47619.msg1431572#msg1431572 date=1322140550]
It has to be said we had an awesome midfield with Alonso and Mascherano. It could be many years before we have that again.
[/quote]

alonso was ridiculously underrated by the pundits who were still calling us a one man team (gerrard).
 
Alonso was brilliant. Had a period where he was off his game but not seen a midfielder that makes a team 'tick' so much in ages. Hard to replace that. And expensive
 
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=47619.msg1431592#msg1431592 date=1322143835]
[quote author=gene hughes link=topic=47619.msg1431572#msg1431572 date=1322140550]
It has to be said we had an awesome midfield with Alonso and Mascherano. It could be many years before we have that again.
[/quote]

alonso was ridiculously underrated by the pundits who were still calling us a one man team (gerrard).
[/quote]Except for the 18 months he was shit of course.
*stir stir*
 
As much as I appreciate the effort put in, a lot of these stats are utterly pointless. Some work, some don't and the naked eye is still a better judge.

Modern football became obsessed with the defensive midfielder, a position that didn't really used to exist and, hopefully, is on the wane. Because a good footballer should be better than that. There is a dearth of them at the moment and we have a fairly proficient one. There is nothing more to his game than that contribution which, in the grand scheme of things, puts him at fairly limited as a footballer at best in my book.

After 180 games, a 5 minute 'best of' compilation and 6 decent forward passes isn't going to change that.
 
[quote author=LarryHagman link=topic=47619.msg1431598#msg1431598 date=1322144213]
As much as I appreciate the effort put in, a lot of these stats are utterly pointless. Some work, some don't and the naked eye is still a better judge.

[/quote]

That would depend on who's eye it is.
 
Quite:
'The human eye is a better judge and I dont rate him, therefore regardless of all statistical evidence he is mediocre because my eye said so'

So Larry if the human eye is a better way to judge, how come almost every week almost every poster differs in their top 3 ratings in the man of the match thread?
 
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=47619.msg1431601#msg1431601 date=1322144654]
Quite:
'The human eye is a better judge and I dont rate him, therefore regardless of all statistical evidence he is mediocre because my eye said so'

So Larry if the human eye is a better way to judge, how come almost every week almost every poster differs in their top 3 ratings in the man of the match thread?
[/quote]

You've used inverted commas there for something I clearly didn't say.

Example, what is the point to a pass completion stat? There isn't one because it isn't based on the type of pass attempted. Adam is obviously a better passer of the ball than Lucas yet I bet his stats don't compare. So, what are the stats telling me? Nothing.

At what point did watching the game become secondary to waiting for OPTA to determine who was actually good or not? This isn't American Football we're talking about.
 
tbhf, a lot of those stats are very hard to argue with. challenges made, challenges won, passes completed, possession surrendered. i don't think there's much scope to misinterpret those: they're impressive.

time to give the lad a break.
 
[quote author=LarryHagman link=topic=47619.msg1431613#msg1431613 date=1322145568]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=47619.msg1431601#msg1431601 date=1322144654]
Quite:
'The human eye is a better judge and I dont rate him, therefore regardless of all statistical evidence he is mediocre because my eye said so'

So Larry if the human eye is a better way to judge, how come almost every week almost every poster differs in their top 3 ratings in the man of the match thread?
[/quote]

You've used inverted commas there for something I clearly didn't say.

Example, what is the point to a pass completion stat? There isn't one because it isn't based on the type of pass attempted. Adam is obviously a better passer of the ball than Lucas yet I bet his stats don't compare. So, what are the stats telling me? Nothing.

At what point did watching the game become secondary to waiting for OPTA to determine who was actually good or not? This isn't American Football we're talking about.
[/quote]I agree in isolation mate. Im saying 'I' see a good player and the stats back it up, 'You' dont so you ignore the stats and say youre a better judge.
Bit arrogant isnt it?
 
It would be different if it was just one stat. But it seems like it's every single stat available. It should be very difficult to argue against.
 
[quote author=Kenny4PM link=topic=47619.msg1431625#msg1431625 date=1322146052]
Carra had the highest pass completion stat in our squad a few seasons ago.
[/quote]Yup. Another great player I wouldnt leave out.
 
downing has no assists. he hasn't been great but he has given the attackers 'some' service on a plate. he should have had a brace of assists in the manu game alone.
 
I wonder if Binny can (anyone for that matter) find Lucas's stats for when he was proper shite? I'd guess they don't look that much different.
 
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=47619.msg1431628#msg1431628 date=1322146149]
[quote author=Kenny4PM link=topic=47619.msg1431625#msg1431625 date=1322146052]
Carra had the highest pass completion stat in our squad a few seasons ago.
[/quote]Yup. Another great player I wouldnt leave out.
[/quote]

would you play carra v city, oncy?
 
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=47619.msg1431633#msg1431633 date=1322146257]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=47619.msg1431628#msg1431628 date=1322146149]
[quote author=Kenny4PM link=topic=47619.msg1431625#msg1431625 date=1322146052]
Carra had the highest pass completion stat in our squad a few seasons ago.
[/quote]Yup. Another great player I wouldnt leave out.
[/quote]

would you play carra v city, oncy?
[/quote]Nope.
 
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=47619.msg1431630#msg1431630 date=1322146220]
downing has no assists. he hasn't been great but he has given the attackers 'some' service on a plate. he should have had a brace of assists in the manu game alone.
[/quote]

you always bring up this kind of argument, it's nonsense. you have to expect a certain amount of chances to be missed - for almost all players their assists total will always be a fairly modest percentage of the chances they create. if downing wants assists he needs to creat more chances, some of which will be put away. focusing on the couple he might have had misses the point.

it's like how you keep bleating on about how we should've won every game, and citing the stoke game as an example because we had like 2 (wow!!!) good chances. it's bollocks. in most games for every goal a side score there'll be a golden chance missed: that's just football.
 
[quote author=peterhague link=topic=47619.msg1431643#msg1431643 date=1322146611]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=47619.msg1431630#msg1431630 date=1322146220]
downing has no assists. he hasn't been great but he has given the attackers 'some' service on a plate. he should have had a brace of assists in the manu game alone.
[/quote]

you always bring up this kind of argument, it's nonsense. you have to expect a certain amount of chances to be missed - for almost all players their assists total will always be a fairly modest percentage of the chances they create. if downing wants assists he needs to creat more chances, some of which will be put away. focusing on the couple he might have had misses the point.

it's like how you keep bleating on about how we should've won every game, and citing the stoke game as an example because we had like 2 (wow!!!) good chances. it's bollocks. in most games for every goal a side score there'll be a golden chance missed: that's just football.
[/quote]

that's a little unfair though, isn't it? for instance if you are a winger for city the chances are your service is more likely finished with the likes of aguero at the end of them than if you were at, I dunno, stoke with crouch at the end of the chances you are creating.
 
Downing has served up some chances on a plate though, chances that absolutely should have been converted. Carroll's miss against Swansea was fucking dreadful, after what was a great move.
 
[quote author=doctor_mac link=topic=47619.msg1431672#msg1431672 date=1322147813]
Downing has served up some chances on a plate though, chances that absolutely should have been converted. Carroll's miss against Swansea was fucking dreadful, after what was a great move.
[/quote]

This is part of the point I'm making. If we had a decent striker who'd have converted a couple of chances, people would be creaming themselves over Downing. As it is, the OPTA stats say he's log. It's not Downing's fault Carroll is crap and Suarez needs 10 chances to score so why should that reflect badly on him?
They're a load of fuckin bollocks.
 
[quote author=the count link=topic=47619.msg1431679#msg1431679 date=1322148461]
Isn't Oncey a right old rogue
[/quote]I dont know WHAT you mean.
*walks away whistling*
 
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