Lucas as central defender

[Dreambeliever]

Behave.

I think people have very hazy memories, Carra was average to poor for large parts of his Liverpool career.

It's like people watch reruns of Istanbul and thus decide Carra was some sensational CB, which by and large he wasn't for the majority of his time with us.

He was good pro who gave us great service but talking about him in the same breath as the best CB's to play for us is strange to say the least.

Henchoz was superb in his short career with us, that treble season his partnership with Hyppia was amazing.

 

[leftpeg]

He was a far better player over a much longer period than Henchoz ever was. Henchoz and Hypoia were superb together but individually, Carragher was much the better player.

 

[Judge Jules]

Henchoz was also poor for a spell when Babbel signed, though it wasn't all Henchoz' fault. GH wanted to try Babbel alongside Sami in the centre because that's where Babbel had been playing for Bayern, so Henchoz got shunted out to RB and looked what he was, a fish out of water. However, Babbel was equally poor at CB, so GH swapped them and that defence, which Bobby Robson described as "four b****y great oak trees", fell into place.

 

[Grjt2]

Henchoz was miles better than Carra

What total unadulterated fucking garbage. Henchoz is probably a bit underestimated, and Carra a little overrated and viewed through rose tinted spectacles worn by those such as me, but not to the extent that the two swap positions!

Fucking hell Dreamy. Is your Christmas gift to the board an attempt to draw everyones attention away from Arns retardation?!

 

[6TimesaRed]

I never really fought Henchoz was in the same Mold as Carragher and Hyppia. Both those defenders where leaders.. Henchoz however was the type of player that needed to play alongside a Hyppia or Carragher to get the best out of him..

 

[Vlads Quiff]

Ha are you blaming that on Lucas too?

Make of it what you will , there is certainly a common factor there - it's probably more that they are hardly the bastions of great judgement. So it's a bit false to suggest he has been this eternally great player as he was selected by these managers

 

[Rosco]

And he's also been kept by 5 managers so far.

Let that sink in. Maybe just maybe you don't know as much as you think you do about what it takes to a top level player.

Are you saying those managers knew what it took to be a top level player ?

Do you want to have a look back at our transfer dealings in the past decade ?

 

[tony]

Are you saying those managers knew what it took to be a top level player ?

Do you want to have a look back at our transfer dealings in the past decade ?

I would think our transfer dealings recently provide pretty good evidence that moneyball or any other stats based vehicle to pick players is complete bollocks

 

[manwithnoname]

I think people have very hazy memories, Carra was average to poor for large parts of his Liverpool career.

It's like people watch reruns of Istanbul and thus decide Carra was some sensational CB, which by and large he wasn't for the majority of his time with us.

He was good pro who gave us great service but talking about him in the same breath as the best CB's to play for us is strange to say the least.

Henchoz was superb in his short career with us, that treble season his partnership with Hyppia was amazing.

Be quiet Dreambeliever.

Carragher was, at his peak, one of the best central defenders in Europe. Versatile too, given in that treble season you mention, he was superb at left back.

 

[Rosco]

I would think our transfer dealings recently provide pretty good evidence that moneyball or any other stats based vehicle to pick players is complete bollocks

Whereas i would say giving a manager the final say in transfer dealings is a recipe for disaster .

If you refuse to consider stats you're just an ignorant prehistoric fool.

 

[tony]

Whereas i would say giving a manager the final say in transfer dealings is a recipe for disaster .

If you refuse to consider stats you're just an ignorant prehistoric fool.

If you ONLY use stats to identify players you are a misguided idiot - moneyball is totally discredited in football

 

[manwithnoname]

I agree with Rosco and Tony

 

[Rosco]

If you ONLY use stats to identify players you are a misguided idiot

Who uses only stats ?

Nobody ?

 

[jexykrodic]

Was that the first time Lucas had played in that position?

 

[manwithnoname]

Who uses only stats ?

Nobody ?

Statisticians are buggers for it

 

[tony]

Who uses only stats ?

Nobody ?

You're being disingenuous now Ross aren't you

 

[manwithnoname]

Was that the first time Lucas had played in that position?

He's slowly but surely reinventing himself and masking his total lack of pace and ability by simply moving further and further away from the areas of the pitch where the ball is. His next position will be 'defensive conductor', situated just behind the goalkeeper and where his vision and game intelligence can be used to orchestrate our game

 

[tony]

Who uses only stats ?

Nobody ?

I don't think it's a stretch to say that fucking STATS have got us into this mess!

 

[jexykrodic]

Individual performance statistics modeled to analyze team games always seem a poor fit and wrong thinking in my opinion.

Stats aside, was that Lucas' s first time in central defence?

 

[Rosco]

I don't think it's a stretch to say that fucking STATS have got us into this mess!

It is.

The whole idea of moneyball is to find value that others cant find via the use of stats to build a better inforned picture.

Literally none of our signings fall into that category .

We've stuck with buying overpriced Premiership proven talent because our managers have been as stupid as our fans

 

[Mamma Mia]

I liked Henchoz, but he had the benefit of a perfect partner. Skrtel is every bit as good, but has not had that pleasure consistently.

 

[Aidan O' Neill]

I think people have very hazy memories, Carra was average to poor for large parts of his Liverpool career.

It's like people watch reruns of Istanbul and thus decide Carra was some sensational CB, which by and large he wasn't for the majority of his time with us.

He was good pro who gave us great service but talking about him in the same breath as the best CB's to play for us is strange to say the least.

Henchoz was superb in his short career with us, that treble season his partnership with Hyppia was amazing.

Large parts? Are you fucking for real? He was extremely consistent at centre back. For 7 or 8 years it was Carragher plus one. He had a couple of very decent years at full back too.

 

[jexykrodic]

Lucas at CB for the first time, was it?

Carra's retired, who gives a shit?

 

[tomasjj]

I liked Henchoz, but he had the benefit of a perfect partner. Skrtel is every bit as good, but has not had that pleasure consistently.

A couple of good points in this discussion, Carra was ace at his peak, but also quite average for parts of his career. How much is of course subject to debate and the eye of the beholder.Also, Carra benefitted of a more calm partner, like Sami or Agger. When Skrtel was there instead, it was chaos. Henchoz was also very good, mostly due to Sami and how well they complemented each other.

The last part of the quoted post I cannot agree with though. Skrtels reading of the game, positioning and marking skills are very poor. If there was one thing Henchoz did well was sniffing out danger and positioning himself accordingly. Skrtel is better in the air, also on attacking set pieces, and he is quicker.

I loved how Henchoz used to look absolutely knackered and red in the face after only five minutes on the pitch. Old days.

 

[tony]

It is.

The whole idea of moneyball is to find value that others cant find via the use of stats to build a better inforned picture.

Literally none of our signings fall into that category .

We've stuck with buying overpriced Premiership proven talent because our stats obsessed transfer committee are a bunch of fuckwits

Edited for you

 

[Woland]

Lucas has played for tons of managers, all of whom have eventually been fired for either always being or becoming shit, and they probably all lose sleep at night wondering what witchcraft was at play that made them think that the fucking useless bellend was any good.

As for managers, it's a humanitarian disaster. They get here full of the joys of spring and leave in tears, with heart conditions, needing therapy. They don't seem to do much better or worse than each other, so this unchecked soul destruction is pointless, and expensive. How much has it cost to hire and fire Houllier, Rafa, Hodgson, Dalglish, Rodgers and now Klopp? Hundreds of millions?

I propose that instead of a manager we hire anonymous coaching staff who do their work behind closed doors, and they pick the team with the help of the captain, and we build a wickerman outside the Kop. When things are going well we leave trinkets and offerings to the wickerman and make funny memes about him for Twitter. If we lose three on the bouce we burn the wickerman and dance and sing through the night, expelling the evil, then in the morning we build a new one, and honour it as our new god.

It's not too dissimilar to what happens now, I reckon the results would be the same, it would be a hell of a lot cheaper - and we wouldn't have to go through this awful process of destroying a good man like Klopp.

 

[Rosco]

Edited for you

I think you've got the wrong impression totally .

There's literally no statistical case to make for any of our signings - apart from Alberto, but you only needed to watch him once to know why he'd never make it.

 

[Mamma Mia]

Lucas has played for tons of managers, all of whom have eventually been fired for either always being or becoming shit, and they probably all lose sleep at night wondering what witchcraft was at play that made them think that the fucking useless bellend was any good.

As for managers, it's a humanitarian disaster. They get here full of the joys of spring and leave in tears, with heart conditions, needing therapy. They don't seem to do much better or worse than each other, so this unchecked soul destruction is pointless, and expensive. How much has it cost to hire and fire Houllier, Rafa, Hodgson, Dalglish, Rodgers and now Klopp? Hundreds of millions?

I propose that instead of a manager we hire anonymous coaching staff who do their work behind closed doors, and they pick the team with the help of the captain, and we build a wickerman outside the Kop. When things are going well we leave trinkets and offerings to the wickerman and make funny memes about him for Twitter. If we lose three on the bouce we burn the wickerman and dance and sing through the night, expelling the evil, then in the morning we build a new one, and honour it as our new god.

It's not too dissimilar to what happens now, I reckon the results would be the same, it would be a hell of a lot cheaper - and we wouldn't have to go through this awful process of destroying a good man like Klopp.

I said something quite similar after Rafa, and I still support the idea.

 

[Vlads Quiff]

You don't need stats - If something looks like shit, smells like shit and performs like shit - you usually find it is shit

 

[Arn]

I wonder how some of you can call yourself Liverpool fans.

I will tell you the reason to why manager after manager played Lucas. They know that he won't sulk. They know that he will always give 100% in every game in every situation. He puts the team before himself. He is a 100% team player. He is also our most physical player. Some of you even says that he is weak as fuck. That weak as fuck player makes the most tackles a game year after year after year.

I lost count on how many yellow cards he taken because one our players fucked it up but some idiots will still blame him. He is excellent reading the game so it is no wonder that he very often is there to clean up the mess.

Some of you HATE a player that always puts the team first. He is our best team player. Feel free to continue to hate him so I can continue to laugh at you. A squad need players like Lucas. Players that put the team first. Team players. The club that tops the league at the moment is packed with Lucas type of players, team players. Big egos destroy club after club but they would be loved by you Lucas haters. A club need hard working players like Lucas. A club will never get good results without them.