[quote author=LeTallecWiz link=topic=47424.msg1422699#msg1422699 date=1320600189]
[/quote]
Smart use of media by the club.
[/quote]
Smart use of media by the club.
Kneejerk Scapegoat
- Thread starter kingjulian
- Start date
- Latest activity Latest activity:
- Status
Is that an actual shanks qoute?
I think all fans are fickle - those that call players cunts and those that preach a better quality of 'support'.
Every other day we get some post telling us that the modern footballer is some money grabbing thick yob that doesn't know the meaning of loyalty. In the days inbetween we get another post telling us we should show some respect to the loyal servants of the club. Which is it? You can't have it both ways.
I don't view most of the players at the club as loyal servants at all. They're here as a result of a mutually beneficial agreement, which involves huge sums of cash, and they go when such an agreement stops being mutually beneficial. There are some exceptions, sure, but for most it's like that.
I don't particularly like quite a few of our players as things stand and I'm struggling to take to them. I'm desperate for them to do well, but my starting point is that they have to prove themselves to me. I don't see anything wrong with that and if that makes me some member of the Sky generation, well, it's probably coz I am for the most part.
Every other day we get some post telling us that the modern footballer is some money grabbing thick yob that doesn't know the meaning of loyalty. In the days inbetween we get another post telling us we should show some respect to the loyal servants of the club. Which is it? You can't have it both ways.
I don't view most of the players at the club as loyal servants at all. They're here as a result of a mutually beneficial agreement, which involves huge sums of cash, and they go when such an agreement stops being mutually beneficial. There are some exceptions, sure, but for most it's like that.
I don't particularly like quite a few of our players as things stand and I'm struggling to take to them. I'm desperate for them to do well, but my starting point is that they have to prove themselves to me. I don't see anything wrong with that and if that makes me some member of the Sky generation, well, it's probably coz I am for the most part.
I don't think wanting a player to perform makes you any kind of 'bad' fan. I don't think there is a 'bad' fan type at all I just don't understand the way people react that's all. We all view things in different ways. I don't agree with some and vice versa. Players may have limited abilities and performances but I don't feel that makes them a cunt, mong or any other puerile insult people can throw at them. I don't you understand how it helps in any way other than release some frustration. All you ask is players turn up and give 100% - doesn't always happen I know. Those players i.e. Mascherano and Tevez who refuse to play for the club. Yeh well I think they're cunts. The likes of Torres who says one thing and does the complete opposite especially when he's a big part of the problem he moans about' yeh a bit of a cunt too. I think that's fair criticism. Players who are simply underperforming or lack the ability we'd wish for though - sorry I don't see how it makes them what people often like to call them. Its completely unwarranted. In my opinion - which people do not have to agree with but I remain entitled do.
[quote author=Dylan link=topic=47424.msg1422657#msg1422657 date=1320595286]
I'll tell you who I blame. Sky. The team might not be as good now as it was pre-Sky but our 'fan' base is even worse and that's Murdoch's fault.
Even in jest or to emphasise a point, anyone who can use the word 'cunt' in the same sentence as 'Kenny Dalglish' after all that man has given this club for more than 30 years is a thunderous, weapons grade A cunt of the highest order, in my humble opinion. And yes I realise I've just done it.
[/quote]Hahahahahaha.
I'll tell you who I blame. Sky. The team might not be as good now as it was pre-Sky but our 'fan' base is even worse and that's Murdoch's fault.
Even in jest or to emphasise a point, anyone who can use the word 'cunt' in the same sentence as 'Kenny Dalglish' after all that man has given this club for more than 30 years is a thunderous, weapons grade A cunt of the highest order, in my humble opinion. And yes I realise I've just done it.
[/quote]Hahahahahaha.
[quote author=Portly link=topic=47424.msg1422695#msg1422695 date=1320599937]
It seems that many posters have one player against whom they hold a permanent prejudice, so when asked to name a scapegoat they automatically name that player, whether he has had a bad game or a good game. :🙂
[/quote]
I know I don't.
Do you, Portly ?
It seems that many posters have one player against whom they hold a permanent prejudice, so when asked to name a scapegoat they automatically name that player, whether he has had a bad game or a good game. :🙂
[/quote]
I know I don't.
Do you, Portly ?
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=47424.msg1422742#msg1422742 date=1320608316]
[quote author=Dylan link=topic=47424.msg1422657#msg1422657 date=1320595286]
I'll tell you who I blame. Sky. The team might not be as good now as it was pre-Sky but our 'fan' base is even worse and that's Murdoch's fault.
Even in jest or to emphasise a point, anyone who can use the word 'cunt' in the same sentence as 'Kenny Dalglish' after all that man has given this club for more than 30 years is a thunderous, weapons grade A cunt of the highest order, in my humble opinion. And yes I realise I've just done it.
[/quote]Hahahahahaha.
[/quote]
?
[quote author=Dylan link=topic=47424.msg1422657#msg1422657 date=1320595286]
I'll tell you who I blame. Sky. The team might not be as good now as it was pre-Sky but our 'fan' base is even worse and that's Murdoch's fault.
Even in jest or to emphasise a point, anyone who can use the word 'cunt' in the same sentence as 'Kenny Dalglish' after all that man has given this club for more than 30 years is a thunderous, weapons grade A cunt of the highest order, in my humble opinion. And yes I realise I've just done it.
[/quote]Hahahahahaha.
[/quote]
?
[quote author=Sunny link=topic=47424.msg1422802#msg1422802 date=1320615706]
[quote author=Woland link=topic=47424.msg1422801#msg1422801 date=1320615618]
LUCAS IS A CUNT
[/quote]
So you keep saying. Well done you.
[/quote]
I'd like you to quote the bit where I did please. Thanks.
[quote author=Woland link=topic=47424.msg1422801#msg1422801 date=1320615618]
LUCAS IS A CUNT
[/quote]
So you keep saying. Well done you.
[/quote]
I'd like you to quote the bit where I did please. Thanks.
[quote author=Woland link=topic=47424.msg1422804#msg1422804 date=1320615754]
the irony here is that I never said Lucas was a cunt. When I first posted "cunt cunt cunt cunt cunt cunt" it wasn't directed at an individual. However, it was latched onto and turned into an issue.
Not that I care, just sayin'
[/quote]
Well funny how so many cunts followed a few posts aimed right at him. Or maybe it was the 'clusterfucking gangwank' that gave it away? Not that I care, if it makes you feel better about things
the irony here is that I never said Lucas was a cunt. When I first posted "cunt cunt cunt cunt cunt cunt" it wasn't directed at an individual. However, it was latched onto and turned into an issue.
Not that I care, just sayin'
[/quote]
Well funny how so many cunts followed a few posts aimed right at him. Or maybe it was the 'clusterfucking gangwank' that gave it away? Not that I care, if it makes you feel better about things
[quote author=Woland link=topic=47424.msg1422592#msg1422592 date=1320587889]
By the way. Lucas... How people seem to accept that this clusterfucking gangwank is actually a footballer is beyond my comprehension. 4 years, hundreds of games, 1 assist. People say you need a holding midfielder and blah blah blah. He's fucking hopeless. Holding midfielder? Hamann? Molby? Whelan? Souness? McMahon? Alonso? People who not only could defend, but knew what a fucking football was. Cunt cunt cunt cunt cunt cunt cunt.
[/quote]
yeh not aimed at him at all.
By the way. Lucas... How people seem to accept that this clusterfucking gangwank is actually a footballer is beyond my comprehension. 4 years, hundreds of games, 1 assist. People say you need a holding midfielder and blah blah blah. He's fucking hopeless. Holding midfielder? Hamann? Molby? Whelan? Souness? McMahon? Alonso? People who not only could defend, but knew what a fucking football was. Cunt cunt cunt cunt cunt cunt cunt.
[/quote]
yeh not aimed at him at all.
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=47424.msg1422436#msg1422436 date=1320542291]
Quality right through that list. Some of the best players in the world right there, and notably every single one of them can and regularly does win games off their own boot. I watched a 'Premier League Classic' game after the match last night; it was United away to Wigan in 2009. In central midfield - Carrick and Anderson. Fucking M.E.H. In attack? Wide left - Rooney, wide right - Ronaldo, in the hole - Scholes, up front - Berbatov, on the bench - Tevez. Ridiculous. They won the league that year too. Goals from Anderson and Carrick in central midfield? If it was more than 3 I'll suck my own cock on a webcam for you all.
[/quote]
I think we're missing something really important here.
Anderson & Carrick scored 4 goals in the league between them that season.
*gets popcorn*
Quality right through that list. Some of the best players in the world right there, and notably every single one of them can and regularly does win games off their own boot. I watched a 'Premier League Classic' game after the match last night; it was United away to Wigan in 2009. In central midfield - Carrick and Anderson. Fucking M.E.H. In attack? Wide left - Rooney, wide right - Ronaldo, in the hole - Scholes, up front - Berbatov, on the bench - Tevez. Ridiculous. They won the league that year too. Goals from Anderson and Carrick in central midfield? If it was more than 3 I'll suck my own cock on a webcam for you all.
[/quote]
I think we're missing something really important here.
Anderson & Carrick scored 4 goals in the league between them that season.
*gets popcorn*
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=47424.msg1422512#msg1422512 date=1320577001]
that was a compelling post from ryan and an extremely good read but I disagree. You look at ryan's list of CM and all of them with maybe the exception of mikel (and at a push song) push high into the opposition half and add numbers to their teams attacks. you mean to tell me yaya toure (for example) playing style is comparable to lucas?
to attempt to argue our central midfield is good enough (to use ryan's own words) is fucking stupid.
we are weak and slow through the middle, teams can play through us almost at will.
henderson is no wide player that much is obviously and neither is kuyt so you are killing an oulet for creativity by playing them there.
we could quite easily remove lucas from the central midfield and play henderson there, we would lose very little from a defensive stand point because teams are ALREADY passing through us at will but there is no question that henderson will give going forwards.
that free up a position on the right which could then be taken up either with downing (who has it in head he should be playing there anyway) and bellamy on the left o play maxi who has intelligence and movement AND was in red hot scoring form at the end of last season.
basically;
bellamy - adam - henderson - downing
or
downing - adam - lucas - henderson
you are adding pace and penetration to the midfield and losing very little going the other way, so for someone to make a post that the central midfield makes fuck all difference to the run of play makes no fucking sense whatsoever.
to go further with my post but moving about from the central midfield, imho our single biggest problem this season isn't creativity it's finishing, front to back, midfield to attack it's been fucking rubbish and even our golden boy suarez has been rubbish in this regard. in the manu and norwich games we created enough chances to win comfortable so this is the area we need to improve and quickly and it's the reason why I think bellamy and maxi should be recalled to the team because not only have they shown they can create chances with their movement they can finish chances as well.
playing armchair manager, I think this team;
-----------------pepe---------------
johnson---skrtel----agger----enrique
maxi----henderson---adam---bellamy
----------suarez----carroll------------
has goals in it. but going back to ryan's point that the central midfield makes no difference, you could field this team;
-----------------pepe---------------
johnson-----skrtel----agger----enrique
downing----henderson---adam---bellamy
-------------suarez----carroll------------
effectively the only chance is lucas for bellamy and imho that team is already better than the one we fielded yesterday, it's quicker and has more goal threat and defensively I think we'd lose very little.
so in closing I think ryan is badly wrong about the issue of our central midfield I think we have a MAJOR problem, our attacks start in the middle of the park, our central midfield is supposed to support and supply the attackers, and we just aren't doing that effectively, so go ahead and list central midfields of other teams as if their central midfielders are hapless and offer nothing, they sure as heck offer a fuck load more than ours.
BOOM!
[/quote]
I'm not going through that bit by bit to dissect the cunt out of it cos I've neither the time, the will, nor the need - it's a fucking mess on it's own without me required to demonstrate it further.
You're effectively advocating moving Lucas out and brining Henderson. That's the crux of your point, and backed up by your claim that "teams are ALREADY passing through us".
Well firstly, we drew on Saturday Neil, and didn't concede again. Our problem is scoring goals, not stopping them. Drawing with Stoke, Sunderland, Norwich and Swansea. Goals conceded in those 4 games? 2. Goals scored? 2. And you think our midfield is getting "played through".
Secondly, what in the name of fuck is jordan Henderson going to do to stop teams from "passing through us" in centre midfield? What Neil? What have you seen in his game that would prevent that from happening? To a worse extent than it already apparently is with Lucas in there? Lucas breaks up play and wins the ball back more than any other footballer in our team. Those are facts Neil, so tell me exactly what it is than Jordan has in his game (because it must be some hidden quality that only you have fucking seen) that lets you belive he could do it better AND then provide more going forward at the same time?
But finally Neil, and Christ I can't believe I *am* actually dissecting your fucking rubbish, my whole point wasn't that the team need reshuffling, or reshaping, it's that our attacking players aren't fucking good enough to shuffle in the first place. Sticking Downing on the right, Bellamy on the left and giving big Dunc up front more time won't win us a thing. It's putting lipstick on a bastarding pig. All our rivals have significantly better players than us in attack and that's why they'll continue to finish above us. Time and time again.
Or maybe I'm wrong, and your claim from last week that what we most need is "a bit of luck" is indeed, spot on.
Like. Fuck.
that was a compelling post from ryan and an extremely good read but I disagree. You look at ryan's list of CM and all of them with maybe the exception of mikel (and at a push song) push high into the opposition half and add numbers to their teams attacks. you mean to tell me yaya toure (for example) playing style is comparable to lucas?
to attempt to argue our central midfield is good enough (to use ryan's own words) is fucking stupid.
we are weak and slow through the middle, teams can play through us almost at will.
henderson is no wide player that much is obviously and neither is kuyt so you are killing an oulet for creativity by playing them there.
we could quite easily remove lucas from the central midfield and play henderson there, we would lose very little from a defensive stand point because teams are ALREADY passing through us at will but there is no question that henderson will give going forwards.
that free up a position on the right which could then be taken up either with downing (who has it in head he should be playing there anyway) and bellamy on the left o play maxi who has intelligence and movement AND was in red hot scoring form at the end of last season.
basically;
bellamy - adam - henderson - downing
or
downing - adam - lucas - henderson
you are adding pace and penetration to the midfield and losing very little going the other way, so for someone to make a post that the central midfield makes fuck all difference to the run of play makes no fucking sense whatsoever.
to go further with my post but moving about from the central midfield, imho our single biggest problem this season isn't creativity it's finishing, front to back, midfield to attack it's been fucking rubbish and even our golden boy suarez has been rubbish in this regard. in the manu and norwich games we created enough chances to win comfortable so this is the area we need to improve and quickly and it's the reason why I think bellamy and maxi should be recalled to the team because not only have they shown they can create chances with their movement they can finish chances as well.
playing armchair manager, I think this team;
-----------------pepe---------------
johnson---skrtel----agger----enrique
maxi----henderson---adam---bellamy
----------suarez----carroll------------
has goals in it. but going back to ryan's point that the central midfield makes no difference, you could field this team;
-----------------pepe---------------
johnson-----skrtel----agger----enrique
downing----henderson---adam---bellamy
-------------suarez----carroll------------
effectively the only chance is lucas for bellamy and imho that team is already better than the one we fielded yesterday, it's quicker and has more goal threat and defensively I think we'd lose very little.
so in closing I think ryan is badly wrong about the issue of our central midfield I think we have a MAJOR problem, our attacks start in the middle of the park, our central midfield is supposed to support and supply the attackers, and we just aren't doing that effectively, so go ahead and list central midfields of other teams as if their central midfielders are hapless and offer nothing, they sure as heck offer a fuck load more than ours.
BOOM!
[/quote]
I'm not going through that bit by bit to dissect the cunt out of it cos I've neither the time, the will, nor the need - it's a fucking mess on it's own without me required to demonstrate it further.
You're effectively advocating moving Lucas out and brining Henderson. That's the crux of your point, and backed up by your claim that "teams are ALREADY passing through us".
Well firstly, we drew on Saturday Neil, and didn't concede again. Our problem is scoring goals, not stopping them. Drawing with Stoke, Sunderland, Norwich and Swansea. Goals conceded in those 4 games? 2. Goals scored? 2. And you think our midfield is getting "played through".
Secondly, what in the name of fuck is jordan Henderson going to do to stop teams from "passing through us" in centre midfield? What Neil? What have you seen in his game that would prevent that from happening? To a worse extent than it already apparently is with Lucas in there? Lucas breaks up play and wins the ball back more than any other footballer in our team. Those are facts Neil, so tell me exactly what it is than Jordan has in his game (because it must be some hidden quality that only you have fucking seen) that lets you belive he could do it better AND then provide more going forward at the same time?
But finally Neil, and Christ I can't believe I *am* actually dissecting your fucking rubbish, my whole point wasn't that the team need reshuffling, or reshaping, it's that our attacking players aren't fucking good enough to shuffle in the first place. Sticking Downing on the right, Bellamy on the left and giving big Dunc up front more time won't win us a thing. It's putting lipstick on a bastarding pig. All our rivals have significantly better players than us in attack and that's why they'll continue to finish above us. Time and time again.
Or maybe I'm wrong, and your claim from last week that what we most need is "a bit of luck" is indeed, spot on.
Like. Fuck.
no, your point general point read like our rivals have ordinary central midfielders but great attackers so our central midfield isn't a problem. I'm sorry but our central midfield is a MAJOR problem and I just listed alternatives with the resources we possess rather than drawing up a wish list of players who may never come.
I don't hate your poster boy (lucas) like some people on this board do but the guy offers FUCK ALL going forwards, can you say carrik, parker, anderson, barry, toure (players you listed) offer nothing going forwards?
I've offered suggestions and all you're saying is 'we're shit, look at the embarrassment of riches our rivals possess'.
I don't hate your poster boy (lucas) like some people on this board do but the guy offers FUCK ALL going forwards, can you say carrik, parker, anderson, barry, toure (players you listed) offer nothing going forwards?
I've offered suggestions and all you're saying is 'we're shit, look at the embarrassment of riches our rivals possess'.
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=47424.msg1422833#msg1422833 date=1320624254]
no, your point general point read like our rivals have ordinary central midfielders but great attackers so our central midfield isn't a problem. I'm sorry but our central midfield is a MAJOR problem and I just listed alternatives with the resources we possess rather than drawing up a wish list of players who may never come.
I don't hate your poster boy (lucas) like some people on this board do but the guy offers FUCK ALL going forwards, can you say carrik, parker, anderson, barry, toure (players you listed) offer nothing going forwards?
I've offered suggestions and all you're saying is 'we're shit, look at the embarrassment of riches our rivals possess'.
[/quote]
Like I said in my original post, our CM could be better, but it's not our major issue. Our major issue is that we have no fucking skill, imagination and creativity out of the positions where we most need them. you're focusing on entirely the wrong thing Neil; we need better players in the positions that win matches.
It's like you've turned up at the fucking scene of 9/11 and are complaining about the fucking lifts not being quick enough to get people out.
no, your point general point read like our rivals have ordinary central midfielders but great attackers so our central midfield isn't a problem. I'm sorry but our central midfield is a MAJOR problem and I just listed alternatives with the resources we possess rather than drawing up a wish list of players who may never come.
I don't hate your poster boy (lucas) like some people on this board do but the guy offers FUCK ALL going forwards, can you say carrik, parker, anderson, barry, toure (players you listed) offer nothing going forwards?
I've offered suggestions and all you're saying is 'we're shit, look at the embarrassment of riches our rivals possess'.
[/quote]
Like I said in my original post, our CM could be better, but it's not our major issue. Our major issue is that we have no fucking skill, imagination and creativity out of the positions where we most need them. you're focusing on entirely the wrong thing Neil; we need better players in the positions that win matches.
It's like you've turned up at the fucking scene of 9/11 and are complaining about the fucking lifts not being quick enough to get people out.
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=47424.msg1422842#msg1422842 date=1320628071]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=47424.msg1422833#msg1422833 date=1320624254]
no, your point general point read like our rivals have ordinary central midfielders but great attackers so our central midfield isn't a problem. I'm sorry but our central midfield is a MAJOR problem and I just listed alternatives with the resources we possess rather than drawing up a wish list of players who may never come.
I don't hate your poster boy (lucas) like some people on this board do but the guy offers FUCK ALL going forwards, can you say carrik, parker, anderson, barry, toure (players you listed) offer nothing going forwards?
I've offered suggestions and all you're saying is 'we're shit, look at the embarrassment of riches our rivals possess'.
[/quote]
Like I said in my original post, our CM could be better, but it's not our major issue. Our major issue is that we have no fucking skill, imagination and creativity out of the positions where we most need them. you're focusing on entirely the wrong thing Neil; we need better players in the positions that win matches.
[/quote]
again, let's deal with what we have rather than what we don't.
henderson
adam
downing
bellamy
suarez
maxi
all capable of creating chances and have been creating chances (take a look in binny's stats thread) our problem is we aren't converting those chances. you can moan at the lack of quality from say, downing (for example) but he put on a plate for carroll. so we are creating ing chances but our finishing is letting us down, what I'm saying is remove the holding midfielder and add another creator to create more chances in the hope that ONE of those chances gets tucked away.
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=47424.msg1422833#msg1422833 date=1320624254]
no, your point general point read like our rivals have ordinary central midfielders but great attackers so our central midfield isn't a problem. I'm sorry but our central midfield is a MAJOR problem and I just listed alternatives with the resources we possess rather than drawing up a wish list of players who may never come.
I don't hate your poster boy (lucas) like some people on this board do but the guy offers FUCK ALL going forwards, can you say carrik, parker, anderson, barry, toure (players you listed) offer nothing going forwards?
I've offered suggestions and all you're saying is 'we're shit, look at the embarrassment of riches our rivals possess'.
[/quote]
Like I said in my original post, our CM could be better, but it's not our major issue. Our major issue is that we have no fucking skill, imagination and creativity out of the positions where we most need them. you're focusing on entirely the wrong thing Neil; we need better players in the positions that win matches.
[/quote]
again, let's deal with what we have rather than what we don't.
henderson
adam
downing
bellamy
suarez
maxi
all capable of creating chances and have been creating chances (take a look in binny's stats thread) our problem is we aren't converting those chances. you can moan at the lack of quality from say, downing (for example) but he put on a plate for carroll. so we are creating ing chances but our finishing is letting us down, what I'm saying is remove the holding midfielder and add another creator to create more chances in the hope that ONE of those chances gets tucked away.
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=47424.msg1422844#msg1422844 date=1320628860]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=47424.msg1422842#msg1422842 date=1320628071]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=47424.msg1422833#msg1422833 date=1320624254]
no, your point general point read like our rivals have ordinary central midfielders but great attackers so our central midfield isn't a problem. I'm sorry but our central midfield is a MAJOR problem and I just listed alternatives with the resources we possess rather than drawing up a wish list of players who may never come.
I don't hate your poster boy (lucas) like some people on this board do but the guy offers FUCK ALL going forwards, can you say carrik, parker, anderson, barry, toure (players you listed) offer nothing going forwards?
I've offered suggestions and all you're saying is 'we're shit, look at the embarrassment of riches our rivals possess'.
[/quote]
Like I said in my original post, our CM could be better, but it's not our major issue. Our major issue is that we have no fucking skill, imagination and creativity out of the positions where we most need them. you're focusing on entirely the wrong thing Neil; we need better players in the positions that win matches.
[/quote]
again, let's deal with what we have rather than what we don't.
henderson
adam
downing
bellamy
suarez
maxi
all capable of creating chances and have been creating chances (take a look in binny's stats thread) our problem is we aren't converting those chances. you can moan at the lack of quality from say, downing (for example) but he put on a plate for carroll. so we are creating ing chances but our finishing is letting us down, what I'm saying is remove the holding midfielder and add another creator to create more chances in the hope that ONE of those chances gets tucked away.
[/quote]
You're doing my fucking head in.
THE BASTRADING FUCKING CREATIVITY NEEDS TO COME FROM THE TWO WIDE MIDFIELDERS AND THE TWO FORWARDS.
How do you not fucking get this? It does at every single one of our rivals, and it doesn't from us. Every team that sits above us has players in those positions who score and create all the time. We do not. That's why we finish 5th and they don't. Look at the goals, assists, creativity, imaginationa and brilliance that comes out of those 4 positions for us, and then compare it to our rivals.
And you want to sit here and talk to me abour removing a holding midfielder for another midfielder. What the fuck goes on in your head Neil?
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=47424.msg1422842#msg1422842 date=1320628071]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=47424.msg1422833#msg1422833 date=1320624254]
no, your point general point read like our rivals have ordinary central midfielders but great attackers so our central midfield isn't a problem. I'm sorry but our central midfield is a MAJOR problem and I just listed alternatives with the resources we possess rather than drawing up a wish list of players who may never come.
I don't hate your poster boy (lucas) like some people on this board do but the guy offers FUCK ALL going forwards, can you say carrik, parker, anderson, barry, toure (players you listed) offer nothing going forwards?
I've offered suggestions and all you're saying is 'we're shit, look at the embarrassment of riches our rivals possess'.
[/quote]
Like I said in my original post, our CM could be better, but it's not our major issue. Our major issue is that we have no fucking skill, imagination and creativity out of the positions where we most need them. you're focusing on entirely the wrong thing Neil; we need better players in the positions that win matches.
[/quote]
again, let's deal with what we have rather than what we don't.
henderson
adam
downing
bellamy
suarez
maxi
all capable of creating chances and have been creating chances (take a look in binny's stats thread) our problem is we aren't converting those chances. you can moan at the lack of quality from say, downing (for example) but he put on a plate for carroll. so we are creating ing chances but our finishing is letting us down, what I'm saying is remove the holding midfielder and add another creator to create more chances in the hope that ONE of those chances gets tucked away.
[/quote]
You're doing my fucking head in.
THE BASTRADING FUCKING CREATIVITY NEEDS TO COME FROM THE TWO WIDE MIDFIELDERS AND THE TWO FORWARDS.
How do you not fucking get this? It does at every single one of our rivals, and it doesn't from us. Every team that sits above us has players in those positions who score and create all the time. We do not. That's why we finish 5th and they don't. Look at the goals, assists, creativity, imaginationa and brilliance that comes out of those 4 positions for us, and then compare it to our rivals.
And you want to sit here and talk to me abour removing a holding midfielder for another midfielder. What the fuck goes on in your head Neil?
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=47424.msg1422845#msg1422845 date=1320629096]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=47424.msg1422844#msg1422844 date=1320628860]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=47424.msg1422842#msg1422842 date=1320628071]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=47424.msg1422833#msg1422833 date=1320624254]
no, your point general point read like our rivals have ordinary central midfielders but great attackers so our central midfield isn't a problem. I'm sorry but our central midfield is a MAJOR problem and I just listed alternatives with the resources we possess rather than drawing up a wish list of players who may never come.
I don't hate your poster boy (lucas) like some people on this board do but the guy offers FUCK ALL going forwards, can you say carrik, parker, anderson, barry, toure (players you listed) offer nothing going forwards?
I've offered suggestions and all you're saying is 'we're shit, look at the embarrassment of riches our rivals possess'.
[/quote]
Like I said in my original post, our CM could be better, but it's not our major issue. Our major issue is that we have no fucking skill, imagination and creativity out of the positions where we most need them. you're focusing on entirely the wrong thing Neil; we need better players in the positions that win matches.
[/quote]
again, let's deal with what we have rather than what we don't.
henderson
adam
downing
bellamy
suarez
maxi
all capable of creating chances and have been creating chances (take a look in binny's stats thread) our problem is we aren't converting those chances. you can moan at the lack of quality from say, downing (for example) but he put on a plate for carroll. so we are creating ing chances but our finishing is letting us down, what I'm saying is remove the holding midfielder and add another creator to create more chances in the hope that ONE of those chances gets tucked away.
[/quote]
You're doing my fucking head in.
THE BASTRADING FUCKING CREATIVITY NEEDS TO COME FROM THE TWO WIDE MIDFIELDERS AND THE TWO FORWARDS.
How do you not fucking get this? It does at every single one of our rivals, and it doesn't from us. Every team that sits above us has players in those positions who score and create all the time. We do not. That's why we finish 5th and they don't. Look at the goals, assists, creativity, imaginationa and brilliance that comes out of those 4 positions for us, and then compare it to our rivals.
And you want to sit here and talk to me abour removing a holding midfielder for another midfielder. What the fuck goes on in your head Neil?
[/quote]
you can't just give the wide players the ball have everyone else sit back and expect them to hurt teams, it just doesn't work like that. you attack and defend as a TEAM, my suggestion is filling the entire midfield with players that can track but AND contribute in attack. I get exactly what you are saying about our the wide players but I believe attacks should from come from the entire midfield.
as for my suggestion of henderson in the middle of the park and removing a holding midfielder maybe this will increase our possission and if WE hae the ball maybe the opposition wont be able to pass through us so easiler because they will to too busy chasing the ball.
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=47424.msg1422844#msg1422844 date=1320628860]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=47424.msg1422842#msg1422842 date=1320628071]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=47424.msg1422833#msg1422833 date=1320624254]
no, your point general point read like our rivals have ordinary central midfielders but great attackers so our central midfield isn't a problem. I'm sorry but our central midfield is a MAJOR problem and I just listed alternatives with the resources we possess rather than drawing up a wish list of players who may never come.
I don't hate your poster boy (lucas) like some people on this board do but the guy offers FUCK ALL going forwards, can you say carrik, parker, anderson, barry, toure (players you listed) offer nothing going forwards?
I've offered suggestions and all you're saying is 'we're shit, look at the embarrassment of riches our rivals possess'.
[/quote]
Like I said in my original post, our CM could be better, but it's not our major issue. Our major issue is that we have no fucking skill, imagination and creativity out of the positions where we most need them. you're focusing on entirely the wrong thing Neil; we need better players in the positions that win matches.
[/quote]
again, let's deal with what we have rather than what we don't.
henderson
adam
downing
bellamy
suarez
maxi
all capable of creating chances and have been creating chances (take a look in binny's stats thread) our problem is we aren't converting those chances. you can moan at the lack of quality from say, downing (for example) but he put on a plate for carroll. so we are creating ing chances but our finishing is letting us down, what I'm saying is remove the holding midfielder and add another creator to create more chances in the hope that ONE of those chances gets tucked away.
[/quote]
You're doing my fucking head in.
THE BASTRADING FUCKING CREATIVITY NEEDS TO COME FROM THE TWO WIDE MIDFIELDERS AND THE TWO FORWARDS.
How do you not fucking get this? It does at every single one of our rivals, and it doesn't from us. Every team that sits above us has players in those positions who score and create all the time. We do not. That's why we finish 5th and they don't. Look at the goals, assists, creativity, imaginationa and brilliance that comes out of those 4 positions for us, and then compare it to our rivals.
And you want to sit here and talk to me abour removing a holding midfielder for another midfielder. What the fuck goes on in your head Neil?
[/quote]
you can't just give the wide players the ball have everyone else sit back and expect them to hurt teams, it just doesn't work like that. you attack and defend as a TEAM, my suggestion is filling the entire midfield with players that can track but AND contribute in attack. I get exactly what you are saying about our the wide players but I believe attacks should from come from the entire midfield.
as for my suggestion of henderson in the middle of the park and removing a holding midfielder maybe this will increase our possission and if WE hae the ball maybe the opposition wont be able to pass through us so easiler because they will to too busy chasing the ball.
Here's a stat for you.
Only Newcastle have conceded fewer goals in the league than us. This is despite teams playing through us at will, apparently.
Here's another stat.
The only team in the top half of the table who have scored fewer is Swansea. We have scored 14 goals - half as many as Man Utd.
Man City have scored 39 goals this season. Their preferred CM pairing of Barry & Toure have contributed a grand total of 2 of those goals (the same as Adam & Lucas).
Now behave Neil - you're wrong.
Have we got a link to Ryan's video yet?
Only Newcastle have conceded fewer goals in the league than us. This is despite teams playing through us at will, apparently.
Here's another stat.
The only team in the top half of the table who have scored fewer is Swansea. We have scored 14 goals - half as many as Man Utd.
Man City have scored 39 goals this season. Their preferred CM pairing of Barry & Toure have contributed a grand total of 2 of those goals (the same as Adam & Lucas).
Now behave Neil - you're wrong.
Have we got a link to Ryan's video yet?
[quote author=StevieM link=topic=47424.msg1422851#msg1422851 date=1320634704]
Here's a stat for you.
Only Newcastle have conceded fewer goals in the league than us. This is despite teams playing through us at will, apparently.
Here's another stat.
The only team in the top half of the table who have scored fewer is Swansea. We have scored 14 goals - half as many as Man Utd.
Man City have scored 39 goals this season. Their preferred CM pairing of Barry & Toure have contributed a grand total of 2 of those goals (the same as Adam & Lucas).
Now behave Neil - you're wrong.
Have we got a link to Ryan's video yet?
[/quote]
I'll put my hand up and say that stat has surprised me no end. I thought our defense had looked a bit shaky thus far in the season. I guess it's more relative - when we're only scoring half manu's total then every goal we concede becomes bloody important.
That said, Neil and Ryan are coming at this from different angles. Neil is trying to look for a solution within the entity that is LFC while Ryan is saying the whole concept of LFC is wrong just now and we need something external.
I personally think that our current group are much better than they're showing. Ming was very important to us and I'm the last person who needs convincing of that but he wasn't this important. Much of Kenny's reign last season oversaw us twatting teams everywhere. We weren't scoring more than anyone else but we were scoring plenty. Ming contributed to that but he wasn't the sole reason.
I'm surprised that Kenny hasn't tried to go back to last seasons formula and give it a go. What we're doing now sure as hell isn't working - Swansea must have confirmed that beyond all doubt. If the King doesn't try something significantly different next time out then we'll have an issue. We've got the Chavs coming up and we really need more movement and clinical finishing to do something with them. They're not looking sensational themselves and they're a direct rival for the CL so a win there helps massively.
Here's a stat for you.
Only Newcastle have conceded fewer goals in the league than us. This is despite teams playing through us at will, apparently.
Here's another stat.
The only team in the top half of the table who have scored fewer is Swansea. We have scored 14 goals - half as many as Man Utd.
Man City have scored 39 goals this season. Their preferred CM pairing of Barry & Toure have contributed a grand total of 2 of those goals (the same as Adam & Lucas).
Now behave Neil - you're wrong.
Have we got a link to Ryan's video yet?
[/quote]
I'll put my hand up and say that stat has surprised me no end. I thought our defense had looked a bit shaky thus far in the season. I guess it's more relative - when we're only scoring half manu's total then every goal we concede becomes bloody important.
That said, Neil and Ryan are coming at this from different angles. Neil is trying to look for a solution within the entity that is LFC while Ryan is saying the whole concept of LFC is wrong just now and we need something external.
I personally think that our current group are much better than they're showing. Ming was very important to us and I'm the last person who needs convincing of that but he wasn't this important. Much of Kenny's reign last season oversaw us twatting teams everywhere. We weren't scoring more than anyone else but we were scoring plenty. Ming contributed to that but he wasn't the sole reason.
I'm surprised that Kenny hasn't tried to go back to last seasons formula and give it a go. What we're doing now sure as hell isn't working - Swansea must have confirmed that beyond all doubt. If the King doesn't try something significantly different next time out then we'll have an issue. We've got the Chavs coming up and we really need more movement and clinical finishing to do something with them. They're not looking sensational themselves and they're a direct rival for the CL so a win there helps massively.
[quote author=StevieM link=topic=47424.msg1422851#msg1422851 date=1320634704]
Here's a stat for you.
Only Newcastle have conceded fewer goals in the league than us. This is despite teams playing through us at will, apparently.
Here's another stat.
The only team in the top half of the table who have scored fewer is Swansea. We have scored 14 goals - half as many as Man Utd.
Man City have scored 39 goals this season. Their preferred CM pairing of Barry & Toure have contributed a grand total of 2 of those goals (the same as Adam & Lucas).
Now behave Neil - you're wrong.
Have we got a link to Ryan's video yet?
[/quote]
Thank you Stevie, thank you. Neil - please, just please.
Here's a stat for you.
Only Newcastle have conceded fewer goals in the league than us. This is despite teams playing through us at will, apparently.
Here's another stat.
The only team in the top half of the table who have scored fewer is Swansea. We have scored 14 goals - half as many as Man Utd.
Man City have scored 39 goals this season. Their preferred CM pairing of Barry & Toure have contributed a grand total of 2 of those goals (the same as Adam & Lucas).
Now behave Neil - you're wrong.
Have we got a link to Ryan's video yet?
[/quote]
Thank you Stevie, thank you. Neil - please, just please.
[quote author=Wizardry link=topic=47424.msg1422854#msg1422854 date=1320635756]
[quote author=StevieM link=topic=47424.msg1422851#msg1422851 date=1320634704]
Here's a stat for you.
Only Newcastle have conceded fewer goals in the league than us. This is despite teams playing through us at will, apparently.
Here's another stat.
The only team in the top half of the table who have scored fewer is Swansea. We have scored 14 goals - half as many as Man Utd.
Man City have scored 39 goals this season. Their preferred CM pairing of Barry & Toure have contributed a grand total of 2 of those goals (the same as Adam & Lucas).
Now behave Neil - you're wrong.
Have we got a link to Ryan's video yet?
[/quote]
I'll put my hand up and say that stat has surprised me no end. I thought our defense had looked a bit shaky thus far in the season. I guess it's more relative - when we're only scoring half manu's total then every goal we concede becomes bloody important.
That said, Neil and Ryan are coming at this from different angles. Neil is trying to look for a solution within the entity that is LFC while Ryan is saying the whole concept of LFC is wrong just now and we need something external.
[/quote]
Not really mate.
I'm saying that focusing on the centre mid, as to be fair to Neil - most on here have, is a) wrong and b) pointless.
What I will say is wrong has been our transfer policy. I get that it's a long-term one, and not a short-term one. But this 'buy British' thing has seemingly come at the cost of forsaking on quality. Nobody can convince me that we culdn't have spent our money better.
[quote author=StevieM link=topic=47424.msg1422851#msg1422851 date=1320634704]
Here's a stat for you.
Only Newcastle have conceded fewer goals in the league than us. This is despite teams playing through us at will, apparently.
Here's another stat.
The only team in the top half of the table who have scored fewer is Swansea. We have scored 14 goals - half as many as Man Utd.
Man City have scored 39 goals this season. Their preferred CM pairing of Barry & Toure have contributed a grand total of 2 of those goals (the same as Adam & Lucas).
Now behave Neil - you're wrong.
Have we got a link to Ryan's video yet?
[/quote]
I'll put my hand up and say that stat has surprised me no end. I thought our defense had looked a bit shaky thus far in the season. I guess it's more relative - when we're only scoring half manu's total then every goal we concede becomes bloody important.
That said, Neil and Ryan are coming at this from different angles. Neil is trying to look for a solution within the entity that is LFC while Ryan is saying the whole concept of LFC is wrong just now and we need something external.
[/quote]
Not really mate.
I'm saying that focusing on the centre mid, as to be fair to Neil - most on here have, is a) wrong and b) pointless.
What I will say is wrong has been our transfer policy. I get that it's a long-term one, and not a short-term one. But this 'buy British' thing has seemingly come at the cost of forsaking on quality. Nobody can convince me that we culdn't have spent our money better.
- Status
Similar threads
