Kneejerk Scapegoat
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[quote author=Sunny link=topic=47424.msg1422921#msg1422921 date=1320662056]
We do need to play a midfielder higher up the pitch neil. It's obvious really.
[/quote]
well, yes.
for the record I'm not saying our inability to win games is lucas' fault, I'm not saying that at all. I'm looking at all the different elements the squad posseses and selecting players who I think will give us a better chance of winning the game.
We do need to play a midfielder higher up the pitch neil. It's obvious really.
[/quote]
well, yes.
for the record I'm not saying our inability to win games is lucas' fault, I'm not saying that at all. I'm looking at all the different elements the squad posseses and selecting players who I think will give us a better chance of winning the game.
[quote author=Sunny link=topic=47424.msg1422927#msg1422927 date=1320663278]
Our finishing is our main issue I think but obviously other areas for improvement. I fully admit that replacing Lucas is one of those but we have more pressing issues elsewhere yet the broken record stigma with him remains. It's fucking yawnsome.
[/quote]
okay moving away from lucas. I think kuyt and henderson are a waste of space at right midfield so playing bellamy on the left and either playing downing or maxi would improve the balance.
other than moving players closer to suarez and carroll I have no ther suggestions (with the players we currently possess.
Our finishing is our main issue I think but obviously other areas for improvement. I fully admit that replacing Lucas is one of those but we have more pressing issues elsewhere yet the broken record stigma with him remains. It's fucking yawnsome.
[/quote]
okay moving away from lucas. I think kuyt and henderson are a waste of space at right midfield so playing bellamy on the left and either playing downing or maxi would improve the balance.
other than moving players closer to suarez and carroll I have no ther suggestions (with the players we currently possess.
[quote author=Sunny link=topic=47424.msg1422939#msg1422939 date=1320664083]
We could change our shape perhaps. I think it's even more basic than that. Pass. Move. Move again. Fucking moooove !! As you probably gather , I don't feel we have enough movement
[/quote]
It doesn't help that pretty much everything went down our left.
Johnson was standing on his own several times in acres of space and instead we chose to lose the ball down the left byline.
We could change our shape perhaps. I think it's even more basic than that. Pass. Move. Move again. Fucking moooove !! As you probably gather , I don't feel we have enough movement
[/quote]
It doesn't help that pretty much everything went down our left.
Johnson was standing on his own several times in acres of space and instead we chose to lose the ball down the left byline.
[quote author=Sunny link=topic=47424.msg1422915#msg1422915 date=1320661169]
Better players in central positions improves the team. Same goes for the creative players. Can't see how anyone would think CM doesn't really matter
[/quote]
It's not that it doesn't really matter, it's just that other things matter more.
Playing around with the current Midfield pair, is a bit like fucking around with the CD player when you car has 4 flat tires and wondering why we're not moving.
Better players in central positions improves the team. Same goes for the creative players. Can't see how anyone would think CM doesn't really matter
[/quote]
It's not that it doesn't really matter, it's just that other things matter more.
Playing around with the current Midfield pair, is a bit like fucking around with the CD player when you car has 4 flat tires and wondering why we're not moving.
[quote author=StevieM link=topic=47424.msg1422955#msg1422955 date=1320665313]
[quote author=Sunny link=topic=47424.msg1422915#msg1422915 date=1320661169]
Better players in central positions improves the team. Same goes for the creative players. Can't see how anyone would think CM doesn't really matter
[/quote]
It's not that it doesn't really matter, it's just that other things matter more.
Playing around with the current Midfield pair, is a bit like fucking around with the CD player when you car has 4 flat tires and wondering why we're not moving.
[/quote]
I see what your saying Stevie but I do feel there's issues in CM. It's very immobile and far too deep with very infrequent forages forward.
[quote author=Sunny link=topic=47424.msg1422915#msg1422915 date=1320661169]
Better players in central positions improves the team. Same goes for the creative players. Can't see how anyone would think CM doesn't really matter
[/quote]
It's not that it doesn't really matter, it's just that other things matter more.
Playing around with the current Midfield pair, is a bit like fucking around with the CD player when you car has 4 flat tires and wondering why we're not moving.
[/quote]
I see what your saying Stevie but I do feel there's issues in CM. It's very immobile and far too deep with very infrequent forages forward.
[quote author=Sunny link=topic=47424.msg1422939#msg1422939 date=1320664083]
We could change our shape perhaps. I think it's even more basic than that. Pass. Move. Move again. Fucking moooove !! As you probably gather , I don't feel we have enough movement
[/quote]
I think when the players are too spread apart (because there are huge gaps all over midfield) movement is almost a waste of time as you have to make racking cross field passes to find anyone. we need to compress play in attacking areas so when we move it becomes nigh impossible for the opposition to track our runners.
We could change our shape perhaps. I think it's even more basic than that. Pass. Move. Move again. Fucking moooove !! As you probably gather , I don't feel we have enough movement
[/quote]
I think when the players are too spread apart (because there are huge gaps all over midfield) movement is almost a waste of time as you have to make racking cross field passes to find anyone. we need to compress play in attacking areas so when we move it becomes nigh impossible for the opposition to track our runners.
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=47424.msg1422958#msg1422958 date=1320665569]
[quote author=Sunny link=topic=47424.msg1422939#msg1422939 date=1320664083]
We could change our shape perhaps. I think it's even more basic than that. Pass. Move. Move again. Fucking moooove !! As you probably gather , I don't feel we have enough movement
[/quote]
I think when the players are too spread apart (because there are huge gaps all over midfield) movement is almost a waste of time as you have to make racking cross field passes to find anyone. we need to crompress play in attacking areas so when we move it because nigh impossible for the opposition to track our runners.
[/quote]
I think the gaps come because Adam and Lucas play too closely to each other and too deep. It leaves big gaps in midfield though, yes.
[quote author=Sunny link=topic=47424.msg1422939#msg1422939 date=1320664083]
We could change our shape perhaps. I think it's even more basic than that. Pass. Move. Move again. Fucking moooove !! As you probably gather , I don't feel we have enough movement
[/quote]
I think when the players are too spread apart (because there are huge gaps all over midfield) movement is almost a waste of time as you have to make racking cross field passes to find anyone. we need to crompress play in attacking areas so when we move it because nigh impossible for the opposition to track our runners.
[/quote]
I think the gaps come because Adam and Lucas play too closely to each other and too deep. It leaves big gaps in midfield though, yes.
[quote author=Sunny link=topic=47424.msg1422960#msg1422960 date=1320665766]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=47424.msg1422958#msg1422958 date=1320665569]
[quote author=Sunny link=topic=47424.msg1422939#msg1422939 date=1320664083]
We could change our shape perhaps. I think it's even more basic than that. Pass. Move. Move again. Fucking moooove !! As you probably gather , I don't feel we have enough movement
[/quote]
I think when the players are too spread apart (because there are huge gaps all over midfield) movement is almost a waste of time as you have to make racking cross field passes to find anyone. we need to crompress play in attacking areas so when we move it because nigh impossible for the opposition to track our runners.
[/quote]
I think the gaps come because Adam and Lucas play too closely to each other and too deep. It leaves big gaps in midfield though, yes.
[/quote]
yep.
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=47424.msg1422958#msg1422958 date=1320665569]
[quote author=Sunny link=topic=47424.msg1422939#msg1422939 date=1320664083]
We could change our shape perhaps. I think it's even more basic than that. Pass. Move. Move again. Fucking moooove !! As you probably gather , I don't feel we have enough movement
[/quote]
I think when the players are too spread apart (because there are huge gaps all over midfield) movement is almost a waste of time as you have to make racking cross field passes to find anyone. we need to crompress play in attacking areas so when we move it because nigh impossible for the opposition to track our runners.
[/quote]
I think the gaps come because Adam and Lucas play too closely to each other and too deep. It leaves big gaps in midfield though, yes.
[/quote]
yep.
[quote author=keniget link=topic=47424.msg1422905#msg1422905 date=1320659494]
We need to start playing to our strengths and I'm unconvinced that a 4-4-2 is doing that. We don't have a naturally dominant central midfield pairing and we don't have fantastic attackers to compensate for that fact. So perhaps the best compromise is to make our midfield better and start utilizing the few quality attackers we have better. Perhaps a 4-3-3 with Bellamy out wide and further up the pitch than he would be in a 4-4-2.
It might be the case that given time a 4-4-2 will to start to work better and yield results, but I'm not sure Dalglish has that time. We're already falling off the pace (look at Spurs with a game in hand) and the vultures are beginning to circle. We've got two very tough games up next and the mood will be pretty bleak if we do badly.
[/quote]
I think this is the best point we can currently follow.
I know a few of us have discussed it previously and elsewhere but the players we have really do not suit a 4-4-2. You get the impression that it's very much a work in progress for Kenny and he still has a few pieces he wants to add. That being the case he's decided to set the culture of a 4-4-2 and add the remaining pieces in the transfer window. The question is worth asking as to whether he has the time.
The reality is that Bellamy adds a lot of what we need; goal scorer, pace, aggression. Plus he's a prick and our team sorely needs a couple of these. A front three of Bellers, Carroll and Suarez would pose a lot more questions.
As has been said ad-nauseum, Lucas and Adam don't inspire confidence in midfield if only for mobility. Adam particularly looks a fish out of water as the game passes him by when we're not in possession. Putting another player in midfield would help negate this issue. It would also make us a lot narrower but, lets be honest, we've got little or no width anyway. Henderson would be my pick to have first shot at this role followed by Kuyt or Maxi until, of course, Gerrard is back. After that the problem solves itself.
We need to start playing to our strengths and I'm unconvinced that a 4-4-2 is doing that. We don't have a naturally dominant central midfield pairing and we don't have fantastic attackers to compensate for that fact. So perhaps the best compromise is to make our midfield better and start utilizing the few quality attackers we have better. Perhaps a 4-3-3 with Bellamy out wide and further up the pitch than he would be in a 4-4-2.
It might be the case that given time a 4-4-2 will to start to work better and yield results, but I'm not sure Dalglish has that time. We're already falling off the pace (look at Spurs with a game in hand) and the vultures are beginning to circle. We've got two very tough games up next and the mood will be pretty bleak if we do badly.
[/quote]
I think this is the best point we can currently follow.
I know a few of us have discussed it previously and elsewhere but the players we have really do not suit a 4-4-2. You get the impression that it's very much a work in progress for Kenny and he still has a few pieces he wants to add. That being the case he's decided to set the culture of a 4-4-2 and add the remaining pieces in the transfer window. The question is worth asking as to whether he has the time.
The reality is that Bellamy adds a lot of what we need; goal scorer, pace, aggression. Plus he's a prick and our team sorely needs a couple of these. A front three of Bellers, Carroll and Suarez would pose a lot more questions.
As has been said ad-nauseum, Lucas and Adam don't inspire confidence in midfield if only for mobility. Adam particularly looks a fish out of water as the game passes him by when we're not in possession. Putting another player in midfield would help negate this issue. It would also make us a lot narrower but, lets be honest, we've got little or no width anyway. Henderson would be my pick to have first shot at this role followed by Kuyt or Maxi until, of course, Gerrard is back. After that the problem solves itself.
So whats the plan of attack ryan.
Lie on your side and curl in to a ball fetal style."?
Lie on you back and try and contort your legs over your shoulder?
Or, stand up straight and god yourself over to "touch your toes"?
Lie on your side and curl in to a ball fetal style."?
Lie on you back and try and contort your legs over your shoulder?
Or, stand up straight and god yourself over to "touch your toes"?
[quote author=grjt link=topic=47424.msg1423118#msg1423118 date=1320683937]
Best supporters in football.
[/quote]
actually, most knowledgeable in football 😉
Best supporters in football.
[/quote]
actually, most knowledgeable in football 😉
[quote author=Gary25 link=topic=47424.msg1423130#msg1423130 date=1320685271]
[quote author=grjt link=topic=47424.msg1423118#msg1423118 date=1320683937]
Best supporters in football.
[/quote]
You said it because if any other so-called top 5/6 Club drew at home to Sunderland, Norwich and Swansea, they'd be quite rightly booed off the pitch.
[/quote]
If Roy Hodgson had of been in charge we would have been booed off the pitch
[quote author=grjt link=topic=47424.msg1423118#msg1423118 date=1320683937]
Best supporters in football.
[/quote]
You said it because if any other so-called top 5/6 Club drew at home to Sunderland, Norwich and Swansea, they'd be quite rightly booed off the pitch.
[/quote]
If Roy Hodgson had of been in charge we would have been booed off the pitch
If John Lydon is correct and anger is indeed an energy I expect whoever the fuck we pick next time out to be a mushroom cloud laying ever ready Duracell muthafucking dynamo, it's spurious to suggest this area or that area is worse or better, the whole fucking lot of em all the way up and all the way down need to start playing every fucking game as though their lives depend on it... Starting against Chelsea.
It's fair to say our midfield is still a shadow of its former glory, it is also fair to say we are still disgracefully short of match winning forwards but truth be told there is no excuse NONE for not beating teams at home.
We left ourselves in the shit.... Let's see how many of this team have got the fucking stomach for the fight.
It's fair to say our midfield is still a shadow of its former glory, it is also fair to say we are still disgracefully short of match winning forwards but truth be told there is no excuse NONE for not beating teams at home.
We left ourselves in the shit.... Let's see how many of this team have got the fucking stomach for the fight.
Grrrrr....
Incidentally I read the other day that Australia has the only wild herd of camels big enough to exhibit wild behavior patterns and they select a certain amount each year out of the million to send to Saudi and other Arab countries as racing stock.
I'nt that spooky.
Incidentally I read the other day that Australia has the only wild herd of camels big enough to exhibit wild behavior patterns and they select a certain amount each year out of the million to send to Saudi and other Arab countries as racing stock.
I'nt that spooky.
Possibly Sunny but I'm sure we'd soon get the hump with them
[quote author=Sunny link=topic=47424.msg1423132#msg1423132 date=1320685595]
[quote author=Gary25 link=topic=47424.msg1423130#msg1423130 date=1320685271]
[quote author=grjt link=topic=47424.msg1423118#msg1423118 date=1320683937]
Best supporters in football.
[/quote]
You said it because if any other so-called top 5/6 Club drew at home to Sunderland, Norwich and Swansea, they'd be quite rightly booed off the pitch.
[/quote]
If Roy Hodgson had of been in charge we would have been booed off the pitch
[/quote]
I did hear a few boos at the end (small minority0 but i suspect most of them were toward the ref.
[quote author=Gary25 link=topic=47424.msg1423130#msg1423130 date=1320685271]
[quote author=grjt link=topic=47424.msg1423118#msg1423118 date=1320683937]
Best supporters in football.
[/quote]
You said it because if any other so-called top 5/6 Club drew at home to Sunderland, Norwich and Swansea, they'd be quite rightly booed off the pitch.
[/quote]
If Roy Hodgson had of been in charge we would have been booed off the pitch
[/quote]
I did hear a few boos at the end (small minority0 but i suspect most of them were toward the ref.
There was like a collective 'ahhhhh for fuck's sake' at the end.
we're no longer 'fortress anfield', more like 'bunker anfield' soon it will be 'sandbags anfield'.
[quote author=Woland link=topic=47424.msg1423173#msg1423173 date=1320692335]
I was surprised at how loud the booing was at the end. I was in the Main Stand for the first time in ages and it was a full on moan fest.
I know that I've ripped some players and the tactics in this topic but I don't dig the booing at all.
[/quote]
Was in the Main Stand myself, didn't hear much booing at the final whistle to be honest mate. Few moans and groans, that was about.
Fella a few rows behind me was shouting every 5 mins "Get Bellamy on!!!" :laugh: Henderson was coming in for a lot of stick to which wasn't nice to hear. Heart sank every time he was on the ball.
I was surprised at how loud the booing was at the end. I was in the Main Stand for the first time in ages and it was a full on moan fest.
I know that I've ripped some players and the tactics in this topic but I don't dig the booing at all.
[/quote]
Was in the Main Stand myself, didn't hear much booing at the final whistle to be honest mate. Few moans and groans, that was about.
Fella a few rows behind me was shouting every 5 mins "Get Bellamy on!!!" :laugh: Henderson was coming in for a lot of stick to which wasn't nice to hear. Heart sank every time he was on the ball.
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=47424.msg1423184#msg1423184 date=1320694172]
we're no longer 'fortress anfield', more like 'bunker anfield' soon it will be 'sandbags anfield'.
[/quote]
You are so melodramatic.
we're no longer 'fortress anfield', more like 'bunker anfield' soon it will be 'sandbags anfield'.
[/quote]
You are so melodramatic.
[quote author=Gary25 link=topic=47424.msg1423186#msg1423186 date=1320694404]
[quote author=Woland link=topic=47424.msg1423173#msg1423173 date=1320692335]
I was surprised at how loud the booing was at the end. I was in the Main Stand for the first time in ages and it was a full on moan fest.
I know that I've ripped some players and the tactics in this topic but I don't dig the booing at all.
[/quote]
Was in the Main Stand myself, didn't hear much booing at the final whistle to be honest mate. Few moans and groans, that was about.
Fella a few rows behind me was shouting every 5 mins "Get Bellamy on!!!" :laugh: Henderson was coming in for a lot of stick to which wasn't nice to hear. Heart sank every time he was on the ball.
[/quote]
There wasn't much booing no (which, like Krump, I'm not into) - but if Kenny wasn't in charge the boo boys would have been heard
[quote author=Woland link=topic=47424.msg1423173#msg1423173 date=1320692335]
I was surprised at how loud the booing was at the end. I was in the Main Stand for the first time in ages and it was a full on moan fest.
I know that I've ripped some players and the tactics in this topic but I don't dig the booing at all.
[/quote]
Was in the Main Stand myself, didn't hear much booing at the final whistle to be honest mate. Few moans and groans, that was about.
Fella a few rows behind me was shouting every 5 mins "Get Bellamy on!!!" :laugh: Henderson was coming in for a lot of stick to which wasn't nice to hear. Heart sank every time he was on the ball.
[/quote]
There wasn't much booing no (which, like Krump, I'm not into) - but if Kenny wasn't in charge the boo boys would have been heard
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