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Kneejerk Scapegoat

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[quote author=Fabio link=topic=47424.msg1423366#msg1423366 date=1320742855]
i'm confused by your second team neil.

For me it looks as disgusting as child abuse
[/quote]


just trying different formations with the same personnel
 
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=47424.msg1423367#msg1423367 date=1320742913]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=47424.msg1423364#msg1423364 date=1320742410]
[quote author=Fabio link=topic=47424.msg1423361#msg1423361 date=1320741991]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=47424.msg1423357#msg1423357 date=1320741561]
I will just say I have great respect for posters like marky, wizard, vlad (and many others) who offer up solutions rather just saying how shit everything is, that gets real old real quick. we're not blind, we can see our attackers aren't having the best of times so listing our attackers and then comparing them with man city's attackers (for example) helps whom exactly?

'liverpool don't posses an attacking threat down the right, how do we address that problem?'
'oh, well we go and buy eden hazard'

oh that's fucking GENIUS

I prefer to concentrate on what we HAVE not what we wish we had. we've spent 100m over two transfer windows and even though that money could have been better utilised we still have a half decent squad of players to select a first 11.

my suggestion was to take out lucas (and I'm not blaming lucas, I'm just saying he 'may' not necessarily be what we need right now) and replace him with an attacker, side step the problem of defensive solidity by having more possession of the ball.
this opinion may be 'wrong' but it's a hell of a lot more constructive than 'we're shit' and 'we need better players'.
[/quote]

i'm unconvinced hendo will offer much more going forward in the middle to be honest neil. Hes a player playing without confidence and always looks behind him for a pass. yes he's mobile and his late surges into the box could cause issues, however, i'd be more than happy to try out this little number:


Lucas Adam
Hendo
Maxi Suarez
Carroll

Yes, suarez is out wide nad people will decry "he's wasted out there", but lets be honest, when does suarez ever stay where he's meant to?

Between suarez maxi and hendo we have 3 players who could interchance behind carroll and gives defences a nightmare. If we forced hendo to be central, his array of passing would be utilised and it might force him to come out of his shell. Plus he has a pretty decent right foot.
[/quote]


I'd love to see this team


downing-----hendo----adam----bellamy
-----------suarez---carroll--------------

or

hendo-----adam-----downing
suarez----carroll----bellamy


question marks over the defensive solidity but that team would certainly have a lot of possession and take the game to the opposition.
[/quote]That team would get humped Neil. Thats not finding a solution, its ridiculous.
And the reason Ryan and others arent putting forward solutions is because you cant polish a turd. Our players arent good enough, and saying 'Lets replace player x with player y' is fairly fucking pointless.
Ive advocated Maxi as a must start but in reality we just need better players.
[/quote]

I agree that I would much rather see maxi that kuyt or henderson on the right. maybe it is time to bring him in from the cold.
 
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=47424.msg1423364#msg1423364 date=1320742410]
[quote author=Fabio link=topic=47424.msg1423361#msg1423361 date=1320741991]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=47424.msg1423357#msg1423357 date=1320741561]
I will just say I have great respect for posters like marky, wizard, vlad (and many others) who offer up solutions rather just saying how shit everything is, that gets real old real quick. we're not blind, we can see our attackers aren't having the best of times so listing our attackers and then comparing them with man city's attackers (for example) helps whom exactly?

'liverpool don't posses an attacking threat down the right, how do we address that problem?'
'oh, well we go and buy eden hazard'

oh that's fucking GENIUS

I prefer to concentrate on what we HAVE not what we wish we had. we've spent 100m over two transfer windows and even though that money could have been better utilised we still have a half decent squad of players to select a first 11.

my suggestion was to take out lucas (and I'm not blaming lucas, I'm just saying he 'may' not necessarily be what we need right now) and replace him with an attacker, side step the problem of defensive solidity by having more possession of the ball.
this opinion may be 'wrong' but it's a hell of a lot more constructive than 'we're shit' and 'we need better players'.
[/quote]

i'm unconvinced hendo will offer much more going forward in the middle to be honest neil. Hes a player playing without confidence and always looks behind him for a pass. yes he's mobile and his late surges into the box could cause issues, however, i'd be more than happy to try out this little number:


Lucas Adam
Hendo
Maxi Suarez
Carroll

Yes, suarez is out wide nad people will decry "he's wasted out there", but lets be honest, when does suarez ever stay where he's meant to?

Between suarez maxi and hendo we have 3 players who could interchance behind carroll and gives defences a nightmare. If we forced hendo to be central, his array of passing would be utilised and it might force him to come out of his shell. Plus he has a pretty decent right foot.
[/quote]


I'd love to see this team


downing-----hendo----adam----bellamy
-----------suarez---carroll--------------

or

hendo-----adam-----downing
suarez----carroll----bellamy


question marks over the defensive solidity but that team would certainly have a lot of possession and take the game to the opposition.
[/quote]

That first team would be better than anything we've started with so far this season, pace on the wings and Henderson could do the job Lucas does but actually provide abit of attacking threat with late runs in the box. Maxi should in no way start or be anywhere near the first team, we don't need anymore wingers with no pace who only pass the backwards whenever they get the ball out wide.
 
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=47424.msg1423370#msg1423370 date=1320743372]
[quote author=Fabio link=topic=47424.msg1423366#msg1423366 date=1320742855]
i'm confused by your second team neil.

For me it looks as disgusting as child abuse
[/quote]


just trying different formations with the same personnel
[/quote]

No matter what you domwith these formations Neil, we'll be the same shitty predictable side that will be battling it out to finish 4th.

Finishing 4th. That's the ambition of Liverpool fans these days it seems. Don't call me a fucking pessimist and don't call yourself a realist, because it's shit. Settling for mediocrity is what it is, and this type of 'we could shift this and that and it'd make a difference' bollocks is the talk of Newcastle fans.

I grew up watching Kenny Dalglish, Ian Rush, Peter Beardsley, John Barnes, Ronnie Whelan... Some of the best players this country has ever seen. And now I have to watch us pay 55 million pounds for Stewart Downing and Andy Carroll, watch us get outplayed by Swansea, at anfield, after going through 20 years of not winning the league and then come on here and read you saying things arent anywhere near as bad as I'm making out and a few formational changes are required.

Excuse me for wanting to be a winner.
 
You can't want to be a winner and then make excuses for having Lucas in the team.

Make up your mind Ryan.
 
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=47424.msg1423378#msg1423378 date=1320744572]
You can't want to be a winner and then make excuses for having Lucas in the team.

Make up your mind Ryan.
[/quote]

Did you get that from the guardian podcast too?
 
I agree with Ryan. We're not good enough and we lack matchwinners. I've been saying this for years - even when we did have Alonso, Gerrard and Torres in top form. We always try and fill out our attack with steady eddies and it's not going to win us the league here.

That said, as Wiz has said, we're not quite as bad as we seem at the moment. The team we put out could be better and they could play better. That's down to Kenny. He needs to sort things out and give us that incremental lift. It's not going to change the fact that we've spent a fortune to look up at the likes of Spurs but it'll make the season a little more bearable and give us at least a fighting chance of getting into Europe.
 
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=47424.msg1423381#msg1423381 date=1320744775]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=47424.msg1423378#msg1423378 date=1320744572]
You can't want to be a winner and then make excuses for having Lucas in the team.

Make up your mind Ryan.
[/quote]

Did you get that from the guardian podcast too?
[/quote]

You've yet to give Spidey a reason as to why Lucas should play, you can continue that with me if you like but everyone can see through it.
 
I'm not short of reasons why Ross, I've got fucking loads as to why he should be and is a starter every week. Most of which I've pointed out on here one hundred times before, so I'm not about to type them again because I can't be bothered, you're not interested in hearing them anyway, and because it'd get in the way of your need to have a relatively easy scapegoat to find to excuse your lack of broader knowledge.

I'll wait around until you've got another opinion from the guardian or soccernomics to throw my way though if you like.

What would Lyon do?
 
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=47424.msg1423389#msg1423389 date=1320745933]
I'm not short of reasons why Ross, I've got fucking loads as to why he should be and is a starter every week. Most of which I've pointed out on here one hundred times before, so I'm not about to type them again because I can't be bothered, you're not interested in hearing them anyway, and because it'd get in the way of your need to have a relatively easy scapegoat to find to excuse your lack of broader knowledge.

I'll wait around until you've got another opinion from the guardian or soccernomics to throw my way though if you like.

What would Lyon do?

[/quote]

I think we should sign better players.

I learned that one from your broader knowledge.
 
Funny thing is, we've both been pretty much in agreement over the last few months. Signings, transfer value, players, manager etc...

Let's just relax.
 
[quote author=keniget link=topic=47424.msg1423384#msg1423384 date=1320745183]
I agree with Ryan. We're not good enough and we lack matchwinners. [/quote]

that's not really an observation though, is it, that's more of a fact.
there are too many players in the team who pass responisiblity with regards to scoring goals. I think the team is filled with players who can create a chance but doesn't have enough players who make it their sole responsibility to ensure we take all three points.

a lot of that has to do with confidence though, look at heskey during his purple patch, he was shooting from all angles. the less confident you feel the less you will try.
I admit enrique was stupid to take that shot in the closing minutes but at least he had the ball to take it on, after the groans when it hit row z I bet it will be a long time before enrique has a crack at goal again.

we are lacking confidence so maybe we should give other players a chance rather than hoping the low on confidence players play their way into form, isn't that a big reason you have a large squad?
 
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=47424.msg1423389#msg1423389 date=1320745933]
I'm not short of reasons why Ross, I've got fucking loads as to why he should be and is a starter every week.
[/quote]

of course there are reasons why lucas should play, good reasons, valid reasons but the question is if we dropped him and played more attackers would be gleen more points?
that's a reasonable question.
 
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=47424.msg1423374#msg1423374 date=1320743805]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=47424.msg1423370#msg1423370 date=1320743372]
[quote author=Fabio link=topic=47424.msg1423366#msg1423366 date=1320742855]
i'm confused by your second team neil.

For me it looks as disgusting as child abuse
[/quote]


just trying different formations with the same personnel
[/quote]

No matter what you domwith these formations Neil, we'll be the same shitty predictable side that will be battling it out to finish 4th.

Finishing 4th. That's the ambition of Liverpool fans these days it seems. Don't call me a fucking pessimist and don't call yourself a realist, because it's shit. Settling for mediocrity is what it is, and this type of 'we could shift this and that and it'd make a difference' bollocks is the talk of Newcastle fans.

I grew up watching Kenny Dalglish, Ian Rush, Peter Beardsley, John Barnes, Ronnie Whelan... Some of the best players this country has ever seen. And now I have to watch us pay 55 million pounds for Stewart Downing and Andy Carroll, watch us get outplayed by Swansea, at anfield, after going through 20 years of not winning the league and then come on here and read you saying things arent anywhere near as bad as I'm making out and a few formational changes are required.

Excuse me for wanting to be a winner.
[/quote]

True, very true.
However, I don't think we'll see an open top bus tour around Merseyside should we finish 4th, but most of us will recognise that having Champions League football will be a starting point after a shambolic few years.
 
We better attacking players both on the flanks and up front ..... BOOOOM that's the post there that is.....


BOOM

Midfield doesn't matter as much as you think and Lucas is not the devil.


KABOOOM

I'll admit I agree Ryan but I'm not sure it was the hardest observation to make, at least I'm not sure it warranted quite so much TNT effects
 
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=47424.msg1423476#msg1423476 date=1320760513]
I would like us to win some more football games going forward.
[/quote]

We will.

I have faith, we really will.
 
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