Kneejerk Scapegoat
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[quote author=Fabio link=topic=47424.msg1422186#msg1422186 date=1320512712]
I thought Charlie Adam was an immobile cunt today
[/quote]
I thought Adam was the one player who shouldn't be scapegoated. He was putting superb balls in all through the game, but the forwards were too listless to profit from them. Shocking lack of effort and poor movement off the ball. It wasn't until the last 5 minutes that we looked as though we really wanted to win the game.
I thought Charlie Adam was an immobile cunt today
[/quote]
I thought Adam was the one player who shouldn't be scapegoated. He was putting superb balls in all through the game, but the forwards were too listless to profit from them. Shocking lack of effort and poor movement off the ball. It wasn't until the last 5 minutes that we looked as though we really wanted to win the game.
[quote author=Fabio link=topic=47424.msg1422186#msg1422186 date=1320512712]
I thought Charlie Adam was an immobile cunt today
[/quote]
Adam gets my vote too. He's fucking crap.
Sure, he can pick out a pass but he's lazy as fuck. I detest the way he strolls runs the pitch like he owns it.
As for his set pieces, what the fuck was he doing today. The laptop nearly got smashed when he put those 2 corners straight to the Swansea player at the front post, and I was raging when he let that lad waltz past him only for Glenjo to have to foul him to stop him being through.
I thought Charlie Adam was an immobile cunt today
[/quote]
Adam gets my vote too. He's fucking crap.
Sure, he can pick out a pass but he's lazy as fuck. I detest the way he strolls runs the pitch like he owns it.
As for his set pieces, what the fuck was he doing today. The laptop nearly got smashed when he put those 2 corners straight to the Swansea player at the front post, and I was raging when he let that lad waltz past him only for Glenjo to have to foul him to stop him being through.
Selling Meireles was an incredibly stupid decision, as was buying a bunch of plodding mediocrity for prices that can get you skilled explosive players if you have decent scouting.
We don't need to figure out what went wrong, we know. Let's just move on and watch this season unfold like so many of the shit seasons before it. Kenny has done some good things and some bad, but Commoli was supposed to be brought in to improve our purchasing and make it part of a credible stategy to get back on top. His first transfer season, which will prove to be the most relevant one with the most money, was an abject fucking failure.
So yea, what exactly would you say you do around here Commoli?
We don't need to figure out what went wrong, we know. Let's just move on and watch this season unfold like so many of the shit seasons before it. Kenny has done some good things and some bad, but Commoli was supposed to be brought in to improve our purchasing and make it part of a credible stategy to get back on top. His first transfer season, which will prove to be the most relevant one with the most money, was an abject fucking failure.
So yea, what exactly would you say you do around here Commoli?
[quote author=RedZeppelin link=topic=47424.msg1422224#msg1422224 date=1320513425]
The whole team was so disgracefully sluggish you can't really signal one individual player out .
But in regards to lucas ...today was the perfect example of how little he adds in certain games . There are games when he does very well, usually the tight, bigger games but that has always been my argument for lucas . Surely you need a more rounded player who can add something in all types of games .
as i said in the main match thread ....14 goals in 11 games is useless but it's not a major surprise if you look at the goal figures our attacking players have showed their whole careers (bar suarez of course ) .
[/quote]
I agree, having such a limited player in one of our key positions is going to hold us back for as long as we play him. I don't think the Lucas / Adam combo is good enough to get us to 4th.
The whole team was so disgracefully sluggish you can't really signal one individual player out .
But in regards to lucas ...today was the perfect example of how little he adds in certain games . There are games when he does very well, usually the tight, bigger games but that has always been my argument for lucas . Surely you need a more rounded player who can add something in all types of games .
as i said in the main match thread ....14 goals in 11 games is useless but it's not a major surprise if you look at the goal figures our attacking players have showed their whole careers (bar suarez of course ) .
[/quote]
I agree, having such a limited player in one of our key positions is going to hold us back for as long as we play him. I don't think the Lucas / Adam combo is good enough to get us to 4th.
Anybody who thinks our problems lie with the Lucas/Adam CM partnership is fucking clueless.
Hers' the CM partnerships at the best teams in the premier league right now:
Fletcher & Anderson/Rooney
Mikel & Ramires/Lampard
Gareth Barry & Yaya Toure
Danny Guthrie & Dan Gosling (Cabaye & Tiote injured)
Song & Ramsey
Not one top class central midfield partnership amongst them. Some good players on their own right now doubt, but the days of Vieira & Petit, Keane & Scholes, Gerrard & Alonso etc etc are long gone. The 'box to box' midfielder died about 5 years ago too. the only real quality central midfield partnership I can think of is Parker and Modric, and even they've only played about half a dozen games togethor. The role of the two midfielders these days is to break up and play. Play simply to the feet of your better players. Every single one of that list above does that. A ball winner, and a ball distributor. There are very very few goals out of that list; I heard last night Alex Song had scored 1 goal in 12 months - do you think Arsene Wenger gives a fuck?
The top sides, the best sides in the premier league are the ones who have 3/4 matchwinners playing around that midfield and up front. Not one of them coincidentally went and bought a fucking winger who'd get down the wing and swing a ball onto a 7 foot tall srikers head - because that's the single stupidest piece of transfer business I've seen in all my fucking days, but anyway I digress.
Back to my point; you win games from the other 3 or 4 players - you're two 'wide' midfielders (and I use that term wide as loose as fucking possible) and your two forwards. Let's now have a look at our opposition's players in that respect:
City - Silva, Milner/Johnson, Aguero, Dzeko, you could even throw Tevez in there.
United - Rooney, Hernandez, Nani, Young, Berbatov/Wellbeck
Spurs - Bale, VDV, Adebayor, Kranjcar/Lennon, Defoe
Arsenal - Walcott, RVP, Arteta, Arshavin, Gervinho
Quality right through that list. Some of the best players in the world right there, and notably every single one of them can and regularly does win games off their own boot. I watched a 'Premier League Classic' game after the match last night; it was United away to Wigan in 2009. In central midfield - Carrick and Anderson. Fucking M.E.H. In attack? Wide left - Rooney, wide right - Ronaldo, in the hole - Scholes, up front - Berbatov, on the bench - Tevez. Ridiculous. They won the league that year too. Goals from Anderson and Carrick in central midfield? If it was more than 3 I'll suck my own cock on a webcam for you all.
Our issue IS NOT Lucas and Charlie Adam in central midfield? Do you hear me? It's not. No fucking doubt in the world we could have a better pair, not even I'd argue that, and everyone knows I'm not a huge Adam fan - but our inability to turn draws into wins is not because of those two. I'm not quite sure how I can be anymore clear about that.
It's the 3/4 fucking plodders around them being absolutely motherfucking carried by our one true great player - who, lets call a spade a spade here, could not be more fucked off with the shower of fucking dirt he's playing with. Suarez will leave if we don't get better players, and then we'll all call him a cunt. Hilarious. Until the burden is lifted off him to be our one matchwinner we'll continue to plod along frustrated at our inability to beat lower level teams, because we have predictable, ordinary consistently meh players in positions where our rivals have world class talent.
Hers' the CM partnerships at the best teams in the premier league right now:
Fletcher & Anderson/Rooney
Mikel & Ramires/Lampard
Gareth Barry & Yaya Toure
Danny Guthrie & Dan Gosling (Cabaye & Tiote injured)
Song & Ramsey
Not one top class central midfield partnership amongst them. Some good players on their own right now doubt, but the days of Vieira & Petit, Keane & Scholes, Gerrard & Alonso etc etc are long gone. The 'box to box' midfielder died about 5 years ago too. the only real quality central midfield partnership I can think of is Parker and Modric, and even they've only played about half a dozen games togethor. The role of the two midfielders these days is to break up and play. Play simply to the feet of your better players. Every single one of that list above does that. A ball winner, and a ball distributor. There are very very few goals out of that list; I heard last night Alex Song had scored 1 goal in 12 months - do you think Arsene Wenger gives a fuck?
The top sides, the best sides in the premier league are the ones who have 3/4 matchwinners playing around that midfield and up front. Not one of them coincidentally went and bought a fucking winger who'd get down the wing and swing a ball onto a 7 foot tall srikers head - because that's the single stupidest piece of transfer business I've seen in all my fucking days, but anyway I digress.
Back to my point; you win games from the other 3 or 4 players - you're two 'wide' midfielders (and I use that term wide as loose as fucking possible) and your two forwards. Let's now have a look at our opposition's players in that respect:
City - Silva, Milner/Johnson, Aguero, Dzeko, you could even throw Tevez in there.
United - Rooney, Hernandez, Nani, Young, Berbatov/Wellbeck
Spurs - Bale, VDV, Adebayor, Kranjcar/Lennon, Defoe
Arsenal - Walcott, RVP, Arteta, Arshavin, Gervinho
Quality right through that list. Some of the best players in the world right there, and notably every single one of them can and regularly does win games off their own boot. I watched a 'Premier League Classic' game after the match last night; it was United away to Wigan in 2009. In central midfield - Carrick and Anderson. Fucking M.E.H. In attack? Wide left - Rooney, wide right - Ronaldo, in the hole - Scholes, up front - Berbatov, on the bench - Tevez. Ridiculous. They won the league that year too. Goals from Anderson and Carrick in central midfield? If it was more than 3 I'll suck my own cock on a webcam for you all.
Our issue IS NOT Lucas and Charlie Adam in central midfield? Do you hear me? It's not. No fucking doubt in the world we could have a better pair, not even I'd argue that, and everyone knows I'm not a huge Adam fan - but our inability to turn draws into wins is not because of those two. I'm not quite sure how I can be anymore clear about that.
It's the 3/4 fucking plodders around them being absolutely motherfucking carried by our one true great player - who, lets call a spade a spade here, could not be more fucked off with the shower of fucking dirt he's playing with. Suarez will leave if we don't get better players, and then we'll all call him a cunt. Hilarious. Until the burden is lifted off him to be our one matchwinner we'll continue to plod along frustrated at our inability to beat lower level teams, because we have predictable, ordinary consistently meh players in positions where our rivals have world class talent.
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=47424.msg1422436#msg1422436 date=1320542291]
Anybody who thinks our problems lie with the Lucas/Adam CM partnership is fucking clueless.
Hers' the CM partnerships at the best teams in the premier league right now:
Fletcher & Anderson/Rooney
Mikel & Ramires/Lampard
Gareth Barry & Yaya Toure
Danny Guthrie & Dan Gosling (Cabaye & Tiote injured)
Song & Ramsey
Not one top class central midfield partnership amongst them. Some good players on their own right now doubt, but the days of Vieira & Petit, Keane & Scholes, Gerrard & Alonso etc etc are long gone. The 'box to box' midfielder died about 5 years ago too. the only real quality central midfield partnership I can think of is Parker and Modric, and even they've only played about half a dozen games togethor. The role of the two midfielders these days is to break up and play. Play simply to the feet of your better players. Every single one of that list above does that. A ball winner, and a ball distributor. There are very very few goals out of that list; I heard last night Alex Song had scored 1 goal in 12 months - do you think Arsene Wenger gives a fuck?
The top sides, the best sides in the premier league are the ones who have 3/4 matchwinners playing around that midfield and up front. Not one of them coincidentally went and bought a fucking winger who'd get down the wing and swing a ball onto a 7 foot tall srikers head - because that's the single stupidest piece of transfer business I've seen in all my fucking days, but anyway I digress.
Back to my point; you win games from the other 3 or 4 players - you're two 'wide' midfielders (and I use that term wide as loose as fucking possible) and your two forwards. Let's now have a look at our opposition's players in that respect:
City - Silva, Milner/Johnson, Aguero, Dzeko, you could even throw Tevez in there.
United - Rooney, Hernandez, Nani, Young, Berbatov/Wellbeck
Spurs - Bale, VDV, Adebayor, Kranjcar/Lennon, Defoe
Arsenal - Walcott, RVP, Arteta, Arshavin, Gervinho
Quality right through that list. Some of the best players in the world right there, and notably every single one of them can and regularly does win games off their own boot. I watched a 'Premier League Classic' game after the match last night; it was United away to Wigan in 2009. In central midfield - Carrick and Anderson. Fucking M.E.H. In attack? Wide left - Rooney, wide right - Ronaldo, in the hole - Scholes, up front - Berbatov, on the bench - Tevez. Ridiculous. They won the league that year too. Goals from Anderson and Carrick in central midfield? If it was more than 3 I'll suck my own cock on a webcam for you all.
Our issue IS NOT Lucas and Charlie Adam in central midfield? Do you hear me? It's not. No fucking doubt in the world we could have a better pair, not even I'd argue that, and everyone knows I'm not a huge Adam fan - but our inability to turn draws into wins is not because of those two. I'm not quite sure how I can be anymore clear about that.
It's the 3/4 fucking plodders around them being absolutely motherfucking carried by our one true great player - who, lets call a spade a spade here, could not be more fucked off with the shower of fucking dirt he's playing with. Suarez will leave if we don't get better players, and then we'll all call him a cunt. Hilarious. Until the burden is lifted off him to be our one matchwinner we'll continue to plod along frustrated at our inability to beat lower level teams, because we have predictable, ordinary consistently meh players in positions where our rivals have world class talent.
[/quote]Dropping bombs of truth since the days of the apple macintosh.
BOOM!
Anybody who thinks our problems lie with the Lucas/Adam CM partnership is fucking clueless.
Hers' the CM partnerships at the best teams in the premier league right now:
Fletcher & Anderson/Rooney
Mikel & Ramires/Lampard
Gareth Barry & Yaya Toure
Danny Guthrie & Dan Gosling (Cabaye & Tiote injured)
Song & Ramsey
Not one top class central midfield partnership amongst them. Some good players on their own right now doubt, but the days of Vieira & Petit, Keane & Scholes, Gerrard & Alonso etc etc are long gone. The 'box to box' midfielder died about 5 years ago too. the only real quality central midfield partnership I can think of is Parker and Modric, and even they've only played about half a dozen games togethor. The role of the two midfielders these days is to break up and play. Play simply to the feet of your better players. Every single one of that list above does that. A ball winner, and a ball distributor. There are very very few goals out of that list; I heard last night Alex Song had scored 1 goal in 12 months - do you think Arsene Wenger gives a fuck?
The top sides, the best sides in the premier league are the ones who have 3/4 matchwinners playing around that midfield and up front. Not one of them coincidentally went and bought a fucking winger who'd get down the wing and swing a ball onto a 7 foot tall srikers head - because that's the single stupidest piece of transfer business I've seen in all my fucking days, but anyway I digress.
Back to my point; you win games from the other 3 or 4 players - you're two 'wide' midfielders (and I use that term wide as loose as fucking possible) and your two forwards. Let's now have a look at our opposition's players in that respect:
City - Silva, Milner/Johnson, Aguero, Dzeko, you could even throw Tevez in there.
United - Rooney, Hernandez, Nani, Young, Berbatov/Wellbeck
Spurs - Bale, VDV, Adebayor, Kranjcar/Lennon, Defoe
Arsenal - Walcott, RVP, Arteta, Arshavin, Gervinho
Quality right through that list. Some of the best players in the world right there, and notably every single one of them can and regularly does win games off their own boot. I watched a 'Premier League Classic' game after the match last night; it was United away to Wigan in 2009. In central midfield - Carrick and Anderson. Fucking M.E.H. In attack? Wide left - Rooney, wide right - Ronaldo, in the hole - Scholes, up front - Berbatov, on the bench - Tevez. Ridiculous. They won the league that year too. Goals from Anderson and Carrick in central midfield? If it was more than 3 I'll suck my own cock on a webcam for you all.
Our issue IS NOT Lucas and Charlie Adam in central midfield? Do you hear me? It's not. No fucking doubt in the world we could have a better pair, not even I'd argue that, and everyone knows I'm not a huge Adam fan - but our inability to turn draws into wins is not because of those two. I'm not quite sure how I can be anymore clear about that.
It's the 3/4 fucking plodders around them being absolutely motherfucking carried by our one true great player - who, lets call a spade a spade here, could not be more fucked off with the shower of fucking dirt he's playing with. Suarez will leave if we don't get better players, and then we'll all call him a cunt. Hilarious. Until the burden is lifted off him to be our one matchwinner we'll continue to plod along frustrated at our inability to beat lower level teams, because we have predictable, ordinary consistently meh players in positions where our rivals have world class talent.
[/quote]Dropping bombs of truth since the days of the apple macintosh.
BOOM!
superb ryan
Yea, so our wingers and strikers are shit too, and our movement is fucking god awful, we're aware. The thing is, the players that brought even a bit of attacking nous last year either haven't featured or were let go. I'm not incredibly frustrated about meireles not being here and the state of our midfield partnership because I think that's the difference between us being a top team or the plodding predictable shit we are now, but because it was a wholly avoidable problem that we brought upon ourselves. It's one thing to make dumb decisions about the players you buy, and we have, it's another to reduce your attacking options and throw away someone who can play well with suarez, because you've seen him do so for an entire season.
We were better, with the same shit lack of wide options, with the same shit strike force, with a player that we got rid of for no apparent fucking reason. Meireles is a better attacking midfielder than anyone at the club currently. He's not some world beating god, he's just good, amongst a pile of shit. I think we'd have more points with him this season, and I think we wouldn't be falling off the pace for 4th. Given the money spent that's not that ambitious, but it is the stated goal.
Also, this is the kneejerk scapegoat thread. Congratulations on "ending it" with an appeal to reason. It's like wandering into a thread where people are discussing what stupid celebrity they would fuck and saying "I'd like to point out that none of you have a chance with them, here's a more realistic set of women for you to evaluate in a homoerotic way." The meireles decision is stuck in my craw because I thought it was so fucking stupid at the time. As I watch this season go so predictably shit once again, allow me to rage about a topic of my choosing. There are many to choose from.
We were better, with the same shit lack of wide options, with the same shit strike force, with a player that we got rid of for no apparent fucking reason. Meireles is a better attacking midfielder than anyone at the club currently. He's not some world beating god, he's just good, amongst a pile of shit. I think we'd have more points with him this season, and I think we wouldn't be falling off the pace for 4th. Given the money spent that's not that ambitious, but it is the stated goal.
Also, this is the kneejerk scapegoat thread. Congratulations on "ending it" with an appeal to reason. It's like wandering into a thread where people are discussing what stupid celebrity they would fuck and saying "I'd like to point out that none of you have a chance with them, here's a more realistic set of women for you to evaluate in a homoerotic way." The meireles decision is stuck in my craw because I thought it was so fucking stupid at the time. As I watch this season go so predictably shit once again, allow me to rage about a topic of my choosing. There are many to choose from.
Kudos to Ryan for the post though it's hardly something previously unstated - I guess that's one of the points he was making.
I've said it since the day it was rumoured; selling Ming would be/ is / was a stupid decision of immense proportions. I've had numerous people trying to tell me to get off it and let it go and then most of them come back to complain about "what's going wrong?"
Our issue against Swansea was - putting aside the lack of matchwinners - our wide play. The further forward the ball came the narrower we got. Suarez was crowded out every time the ball came near him for this simple reason. The player who found space best for us last season - including Suarez - was Ming. But he's not here and, surprise - surprise, we're struggling to find space, we look static and our midfield begins to look frustrated in looking for options.
Unfortunately there is no way to change this fact. Kenny needs to get Bellamy in there because, for whatever shortcomings he has, he's a matchwinner and this is, as Ryan rightly points out, what we've been missing for a number of years.
I've said it since the day it was rumoured; selling Ming would be/ is / was a stupid decision of immense proportions. I've had numerous people trying to tell me to get off it and let it go and then most of them come back to complain about "what's going wrong?"
Our issue against Swansea was - putting aside the lack of matchwinners - our wide play. The further forward the ball came the narrower we got. Suarez was crowded out every time the ball came near him for this simple reason. The player who found space best for us last season - including Suarez - was Ming. But he's not here and, surprise - surprise, we're struggling to find space, we look static and our midfield begins to look frustrated in looking for options.
Unfortunately there is no way to change this fact. Kenny needs to get Bellamy in there because, for whatever shortcomings he has, he's a matchwinner and this is, as Ryan rightly points out, what we've been missing for a number of years.
Knee Jerk
We are fucking shit.
Our signings are fucking shit. We can't pass. They don't move. Bring Shelvey back. Dalglish hasn't got a clue. His subs are fucking shit. We've drawn 4 out of 5 home games and we really are shit. As for the summer signings, they're all shit. Henderson and Downing - what the fuck are they? Fucking shit.
Shame.
We are fucking shit.
Our signings are fucking shit. We can't pass. They don't move. Bring Shelvey back. Dalglish hasn't got a clue. His subs are fucking shit. We've drawn 4 out of 5 home games and we really are shit. As for the summer signings, they're all shit. Henderson and Downing - what the fuck are they? Fucking shit.
Shame.
that was a compelling post from ryan and an extremely good read but I disagree. You look at ryan's list of CM and all of them with maybe the exception of mikel (and at a push song) push high into the opposition half and add numbers to their teams attacks. you mean to tell me yaya toure (for example) playing style is comparable to lucas?
to attempt to argue our central midfield is good enough (to use ryan's own words) is fucking stupid.
we are weak and slow through the middle, teams can play through us almost at will.
henderson is no wide player that much is obviously and neither is kuyt so you are killing an oulet for creativity by playing them there.
we could quite easily remove lucas from the central midfield and play henderson there, we would lose very little from a defensive stand point because teams are ALREADY passing through us at will but there is no question that henderson will give going forwards.
that free up a position on the right which could then be taken up either with downing (who has it in head he should be playing there anyway) and bellamy on the left o play maxi who has intelligence and movement AND was in red hot scoring form at the end of last season.
basically;
bellamy - adam - henderson - downing
or
downing - adam - lucas - henderson
you are adding pace and penetration to the midfield and losing very little going the other way, so for someone to make a post that the central midfield makes fuck all difference to the run of play makes no fucking sense whatsoever.
to go further with my post but moving about from the central midfield, imho our single biggest problem this season isn't creativity it's finishing, front to back, midfield to attack it's been fucking rubbish and even our golden boy suarez has been rubbish in this regard. in the manu and norwich games we created enough chances to win comfortable so this is the area we need to improve and quickly and it's the reason why I think bellamy and maxi should be recalled to the team because not only have they shown they can create chances with their movement they can finish chances as well.
playing armchair manager, I think this team;
-----------------pepe---------------
johnson---skrtel----agger----enrique
maxi----henderson---adam---bellamy
----------suarez----carroll------------
has goals in it. but going back to ryan's point that the central midfield makes no difference, you could field this team;
-----------------pepe---------------
johnson-----skrtel----agger----enrique
downing----henderson---adam---bellamy
-------------suarez----carroll------------
effectively the only chance is lucas for bellamy and imho that team is already better than the one we fielded yesterday, it's quicker and has more goal threat and defensively I think we'd lose very little.
so in closing I think ryan is badly wrong about the issue of our central midfield I think we have a MAJOR problem, our attacks start in the middle of the park, our central midfield is supposed to support and supply the attackers, and we just aren't doing that effectively, so go ahead and list central midfields of other teams as if their central midfielders are hapless and offer nothing, they sure as heck offer a fuck load more than ours.
BOOM!
to attempt to argue our central midfield is good enough (to use ryan's own words) is fucking stupid.
we are weak and slow through the middle, teams can play through us almost at will.
henderson is no wide player that much is obviously and neither is kuyt so you are killing an oulet for creativity by playing them there.
we could quite easily remove lucas from the central midfield and play henderson there, we would lose very little from a defensive stand point because teams are ALREADY passing through us at will but there is no question that henderson will give going forwards.
that free up a position on the right which could then be taken up either with downing (who has it in head he should be playing there anyway) and bellamy on the left o play maxi who has intelligence and movement AND was in red hot scoring form at the end of last season.
basically;
bellamy - adam - henderson - downing
or
downing - adam - lucas - henderson
you are adding pace and penetration to the midfield and losing very little going the other way, so for someone to make a post that the central midfield makes fuck all difference to the run of play makes no fucking sense whatsoever.
to go further with my post but moving about from the central midfield, imho our single biggest problem this season isn't creativity it's finishing, front to back, midfield to attack it's been fucking rubbish and even our golden boy suarez has been rubbish in this regard. in the manu and norwich games we created enough chances to win comfortable so this is the area we need to improve and quickly and it's the reason why I think bellamy and maxi should be recalled to the team because not only have they shown they can create chances with their movement they can finish chances as well.
playing armchair manager, I think this team;
-----------------pepe---------------
johnson---skrtel----agger----enrique
maxi----henderson---adam---bellamy
----------suarez----carroll------------
has goals in it. but going back to ryan's point that the central midfield makes no difference, you could field this team;
-----------------pepe---------------
johnson-----skrtel----agger----enrique
downing----henderson---adam---bellamy
-------------suarez----carroll------------
effectively the only chance is lucas for bellamy and imho that team is already better than the one we fielded yesterday, it's quicker and has more goal threat and defensively I think we'd lose very little.
so in closing I think ryan is badly wrong about the issue of our central midfield I think we have a MAJOR problem, our attacks start in the middle of the park, our central midfield is supposed to support and supply the attackers, and we just aren't doing that effectively, so go ahead and list central midfields of other teams as if their central midfielders are hapless and offer nothing, they sure as heck offer a fuck load more than ours.
BOOM!
To borrow your argument against Shelvey Spidey a few weeks ago ..... we've never seen henderson play the holding role , why should we drop our "best holding midfielder" to replace him with someone who hasn't played it ?
(Oncy gets unfairly tagged for flip flopping, when you're the fucking king of it btw)
(Oncy gets unfairly tagged for flip flopping, when you're the fucking king of it btw)
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=47424.msg1422514#msg1422514 date=1320577140]
To borrow your argument against Shelvey Spidey a few weeks ago ..... we've never seen henderson play the holding role , why should we drop our "best holding midfielder" to replace him with someone who hasn't played it ?
(Oncy gets unfairly tagged for flip flopping, when you're the fucking king of it btw)
[/quote]
fuck it, I've changed my mind. I haven't changed my mind lucas is our best holding midfielder, he is but we need more penetration through the middle of the park especially at home and I think don't we'll lose much solidity if we make that change. so yes I've flip flopped, sue me.
okay ross, seeing as I'm the 'king' of flip flopping, how many times have I changed my opinion (as if changing your opinion was a crime)?
To borrow your argument against Shelvey Spidey a few weeks ago ..... we've never seen henderson play the holding role , why should we drop our "best holding midfielder" to replace him with someone who hasn't played it ?
(Oncy gets unfairly tagged for flip flopping, when you're the fucking king of it btw)
[/quote]
fuck it, I've changed my mind. I haven't changed my mind lucas is our best holding midfielder, he is but we need more penetration through the middle of the park especially at home and I think don't we'll lose much solidity if we make that change. so yes I've flip flopped, sue me.
okay ross, seeing as I'm the 'king' of flip flopping, how many times have I changed my opinion (as if changing your opinion was a crime)?
Regardless of what some of you say our CM remains a big problem for us imo. Is it just a coincidence that out of all of the sides ahead of us in the league, we have the weakest CM?
I wouldn't argue for a second though that this is our only major issue, it goes without saying we're lacking quality in the attacking positions.
I wouldn't argue for a second though that this is our only major issue, it goes without saying we're lacking quality in the attacking positions.
I wouldn't say the central midfield was the problem against Swansea. True, Henderson was ineffectual in the first half but Charlie Adam played a blinder. The problem was failure of the forwards to take advantage of his passes. Suarez was off the boil, Downing didn't do much apart from a couple of good crosses, and Carroll rarely broke into a trot. Kenny should have brought Bellamy on sooner than he did. Dirk wasn't the answer to our toothless forward line.
[quote author=Portly link=topic=47424.msg1422526#msg1422526 date=1320578526]
I wouldn't say the central midfield was the problem against Swansea. True, Henderson was ineffectual in the first half but Charlie Adam played a blinder. The problem was failure of the forwards to take advantage of his passes. Suarez was off the boil, Downing didn't do much apart from a couple of good crosses, and Carroll rarely broke into a trot. Kenny should have brought Bellamy on sooner than he did. Dirk wasn't the answer to our toothless forward line.
[/quote]
I think the whole midfield was the problem. The centre mids were too deep, the wide players ineffectual and a complete lack of movement. Agree with you on the subs though
I wouldn't say the central midfield was the problem against Swansea. True, Henderson was ineffectual in the first half but Charlie Adam played a blinder. The problem was failure of the forwards to take advantage of his passes. Suarez was off the boil, Downing didn't do much apart from a couple of good crosses, and Carroll rarely broke into a trot. Kenny should have brought Bellamy on sooner than he did. Dirk wasn't the answer to our toothless forward line.
[/quote]
I think the whole midfield was the problem. The centre mids were too deep, the wide players ineffectual and a complete lack of movement. Agree with you on the subs though
By the way. Lucas... How people seem to accept that this clusterfucking gangwank is actually a footballer is beyond my comprehension. 4 years, hundreds of games, 1 assist. People say you need a holding midfielder and blah blah blah. He's fucking hopeless. Holding midfielder? Hamann? Molby? Whelan? Souness? McMahon? Alonso? People who not only could defend, but knew what a fucking football was. Cunt cunt cunt cunt cunt cunt cunt.
[quote author=Kenny4PM link=topic=47424.msg1422517#msg1422517 date=1320577477]
Regardless of what some of you say our CM remains a big problem for us imo. Is it just a coincidence that out of all of the sides ahead of us in the league, we have the weakest CM?
I wouldn't argue for a second though that this is our only major issue, it goes without saying we're lacking quality in the attacking positions.
[/quote]
Man knows what he is talking about!
But i do think, if we are to start the surgery, we have to start it from CM. It has been the pits for far too long, and Stevie's absence has just sealed it for me. We need a big investment in this area.
Regardless of what some of you say our CM remains a big problem for us imo. Is it just a coincidence that out of all of the sides ahead of us in the league, we have the weakest CM?
I wouldn't argue for a second though that this is our only major issue, it goes without saying we're lacking quality in the attacking positions.
[/quote]
Man knows what he is talking about!
But i do think, if we are to start the surgery, we have to start it from CM. It has been the pits for far too long, and Stevie's absence has just sealed it for me. We need a big investment in this area.
[quote author=Woland link=topic=47424.msg1422592#msg1422592 date=1320587889]
By the way. Lucas... How people seem to accept that this clusterfucking gangwank is actually a footballer is beyond my comprehension. 4 years, hundreds of games, 1 assist. People say you need a holding midfielder and blah blah blah. He's fucking hopeless. Holding midfielder? Hamann? Molby? Whelan? Souness? McMahon? Alonso? People who not only could defend, but knew what a fucking football was. Cunt cunt cunt cunt cunt cunt cunt.
[/quote]
This is exactly i felt yesterday. You have just arrived a day late.
By the way. Lucas... How people seem to accept that this clusterfucking gangwank is actually a footballer is beyond my comprehension. 4 years, hundreds of games, 1 assist. People say you need a holding midfielder and blah blah blah. He's fucking hopeless. Holding midfielder? Hamann? Molby? Whelan? Souness? McMahon? Alonso? People who not only could defend, but knew what a fucking football was. Cunt cunt cunt cunt cunt cunt cunt.
[/quote]
This is exactly i felt yesterday. You have just arrived a day late.
[quote author=Woland link=topic=47424.msg1422592#msg1422592 date=1320587889]
By the way. Lucas... How people seem to accept that this clusterfucking gangwank is actually a footballer is beyond my comprehension. 4 years, hundreds of games, 1 assist. People say you need a holding midfielder and blah blah blah. He's fucking hopeless. Holding midfielder? Hamann? Molby? Whelan? Souness? McMahon? Alonso? People who not only could defend, but knew what a fucking football was. Cunt cunt cunt cunt cunt cunt cunt.
[/quote]
He will never be in the same class as those players. Do we need better than him? Most definitely.Doesn't really make him a cunt like but carry on acting like one.
By the way. Lucas... How people seem to accept that this clusterfucking gangwank is actually a footballer is beyond my comprehension. 4 years, hundreds of games, 1 assist. People say you need a holding midfielder and blah blah blah. He's fucking hopeless. Holding midfielder? Hamann? Molby? Whelan? Souness? McMahon? Alonso? People who not only could defend, but knew what a fucking football was. Cunt cunt cunt cunt cunt cunt cunt.
[/quote]
He will never be in the same class as those players. Do we need better than him? Most definitely.Doesn't really make him a cunt like but carry on acting like one.
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