Poll Kenny approval rating?

[gkmacca]

Well as a link man I think Comolli's doing a very good job. He works non-stop, attends just about every match at every level and he has improved communications and relationships throughout the club. What he actually does apart from that, though, is much more contentious and mysterious.

 

[gkmacca]

the bottom line is we've spent a lot of money.

That's all it needs, I think.

 

[Jack D Rips]

Well as a link man I think Comolli's doing a very good job. He works non-stop, attends just about every match at every level and he has improved communications and relationships throughout the club. What he actually does apart from that, though, is much more contentious and mysterious.

Its the "what he actually does apart from that" bit that worries me

 

[gkmacca]

Its the "what he actually does apart from that" bit that worries me

I'm sure it worries everyone.

 

[Rosco]

I'm honestly not trying to provoke anyone, but seeing as we never actually released details of the fee paid for most transfers, and Comolli went on record to deny the reported sums cited for Henderson and Downing, where do we get these totals from? I'm not a fan of this obsession with gross spends anyway, but we should at least be clear what the totals are if we must use them.

I just always assume that all deals contain various bonus clauses that trigger payments, we release the lowest possible price as the transfer fee to our media friends, the sellers inform their media buddies the higher price. Nobody is lying then.

We have to budget for the add ons though, so you're better off assuming the high price if trying to work out what we've got left

 

[gene hughes]

I had assumed that DC is really in charge of quality control on transfers (with the final say on purchases and a role in identifying players through the scouting system). That he is in charge of medium term planning on football matters (the kind of football we want to play through every level in the club, succession planning on the coaching side, and so on). But I have seen no evidence of this so far.

 

[spider-Neil]

you have to imagine that when kenny was putting forward his case for getting the job he would have said 'my long term plan is 'this' then comolli came to the table and they fleshed out exactly the type of players to make 'this' happen. there are two factors, one) kenny had just arrived so did suarez and carroll figure into kenny's long term plans? did he even have a long term plan at that stage , he'd literally only been at the club a couple of months. and two) once kenny landed the job did he buy players in the summer to make his long term plan happen or did he buy players to compliement the players from the previous transfer window?

basically are we working towards a long term vision, or are we just buying players and seeing what sticks?

 

[hmmmmm1]

I answered no but misunderstood the question. Of course he is still the King but I don't think he is the man to lead the team next season.

I thought the question was about his legendary status - which should never be in doubt, not about next season

 

[hmmmmm1]

It is all about the summer transfer window for me

If KD signs average British players, we will be in same position.

However 1/2 (how often do we say this!?!?) quality attacking players could transform our team

So question is, do we trust the club to have a good transfer window?

 

[Oncy]

the bottom line is we've spent a lot of money on players that have contributed next to fuck all. it's unfair to expect all the signings to give an instant return, a little fairer to expect half the signings to give an instant return but next to none of them? that is a fuck up which ever way you want to look at it. you shouldn't be spending vast sums of money to go backwards.

I dont think thats fair at all.
Enrique has been good, Bellamy has been good, Suarez has been good, Adam until Lucas got injured was good, Downing has been ok. Its only Carroll and Henderson who have contributed 'Fuck all'
These players we paid all that money for have won our first trophy in 6 years and are 2 games from another.
I dont think retrospectively we would have signed Adam, Carroll, Henderson or Downing but to suggest they have done 'Fuck all' is plain wrong. They have all won more trophies than Torres or Mascherano or Arbeloa did at the club. And ALL contributed.

 

[Fabio]

That post gives me wood Oncy. its starting to get me my mojo back.

 

[gene hughes]

I can't get with that at all Oncy. Enrique has been good in patches, Bellamy has been good most of the time when played but remains a bit part player, Suarez gives defenses problems but then fucks it up 9 times out of ten, saying Adam was good when Lucas was beside him is just another way of saying Lucas is good and Adam is shite without him, Downing has not been ok he's been shite for most of the season, and Carroll and Henderson have both shown glimpses of being average with slightly above average potential for improvement over a period of 2 to 3 years. We have won a trophy and credit to all concerned but the 2008/9 team of Benitez would eat this present team for breakfast. I would much rather finish a close second in the league than win the Carling Cup.

 

[Modo]

I can't get with that at all Oncy. Enrique has been good in patches, Bellamy has been good most of the time when played but remains a bit part player, Suarez gives defenses problems but then fucks it up 9 times out of ten, saying Adam was good when Lucas was beside him is just another way of saying Lucas is good and Adam is shite without him, Downing has not been ok he's been shite for most of the season, and Carroll and Henderson have both shown glimpses of being average with slightly above average potential for improvement over a period of 2 to 3 years. We have won a trophy and credit to all concerned but the 2008/9 team of Benitez would eat this present team for breakfast. I would much rather finish a close second in the league than win the Carling Cup.

*eyes welled up with tears*

 

[gkmacca]

the 2008/9 team of Benitez would eat this present team for breakfast.

Then get a 0-0 draw against Fulham.

 

[LeTallecWiz]

We have won a trophy and credit to all concerned but the 2008/9 team of Benitez would eat this present team for breakfast. I would much rather finish a close second in the league than win the Carling Cup.

Rafa didn't win a trophy for 4 years with the best midfielder in the world, one of most feared strikers in the world (at the time), the best DM in the world, a world class CM in Alonso, a underrated RB and two great CBs in Carra and Hyypia. So yes, they'd beat today's team but they couldn't get it done when it counted in ANY tournament. I'd much rather win 2 trophies after 6 years of nothing, and build on that than finish 2nd.

That 2nd place finish only gave United more of an edge, as per Fergie, "That was the best chance they'll get for the league and they blew it."

 

[gene hughes]

Then get a 0-0 draw against Fulham.

Very possibly.

 

[redblack7]

Yes still the King.Next season?Bit early for that discussion isn't it?Unless we all want to put our fingers in our ears and shut our eyes to what is happening.
Kenny needs to show that he can end this shocking run of form by instilling a bit of fight,belief and a plan that sees us leave the field with more than nothing.And he needs to do it more or less right now.
If you're saying we carry on regardless if he doesn't, then I disagree.

 

[spider-Neil]

can't get with oncy's post either.
suarez - can be said the only one of the signings to increase in value so is a success but his return as a striker is poor.
enrique - started well but is all over the place currently - to be fair, tiredness may be the reason.
downing - contributed next to nothing.
carroll - contributed next to nothing.
henderson contributed next to nothing.
adam - has contributed most of the midfielders but has a grand total of 6 assists and 2 goals.
bellamy - good value for his wages.
doni - hasn't played a single (obviously not his fault).

they've all (other than doni) have made contributions to winning a carling cup but it's not being unreasonable to expect much better return in the league. with regards to league contribution almost without exception it's been a fucking disaster.

 

[Oncy]

I can't get with that at all Oncy. Enrique has been good in patches, Bellamy has been good most of the time when played but remains a bit part player, Suarez gives defenses problems but then fucks it up 9 times out of ten, saying Adam was good when Lucas was beside him is just another way of saying Lucas is good and Adam is shite without him, Downing has not been ok he's been shite for most of the season, and Carroll and Henderson have both shown glimpses of being average with slightly above average potential for improvement over a period of 2 to 3 years. We have won a trophy and credit to all concerned but the 2008/9 team of Benitez would eat this present team for breakfast. I would much rather finish a close second in the league than win the Carling Cup.

Nobody is more dissappointed in what we did in summer than me Gene, but thats miles from 'Fuck all'
Ideally we would have signed Sakho and Young and Jones and Ba but these players did something that all of the talent we have had and Arsenal have had and Spurs have couldnt do and that is to bring home Silverware.
Kenny has as many trophies in one year in charge as Sheik Mansour has in 3 years paying 100's of millions at City. More in one year than Arsene Wenger has managed since Houllier was in charge of us.
It hasnt got fuck all to do with those players.
And i think you know I dont rate ANY of them that highly.

 

[gene hughes]

Rafa didn't win a trophy for 4 years with the best midfielder in the world, one of most feared strikers in the world (at the time), the best DM in the world, a world class CM in Alonso, a underrated RB and two great CBs in Carra and Hyypia. So yes, they'd beat today's team but they couldn't get it done when it counted in ANY tournament. I'd much rather win 2 trophies after 6 years of nothing, and build on that than finish 2nd.

That 2nd place finish only gave United more of an edge, as per Fergie, "That was the best chance they'll get for the league and they blew it."

Are you saying it was a bad thing that we finished second, as opposed to 3rd or 4th or 9th? You seem to be saying that pushing United right to the end of that season was actually playing into their hands or something? Am I misunderstanding you? I know I do that sometimes to people.

We haven't won two trophies LTW, not yet anyway. I'm surprised that you are so dismissive of Benitez and his achievements. By your own estimation he built a team of excellent players and back then we prioritized the league and the Champions League at the expense of the lesser trophies you're now favoring.

I can't see how anyone would prefer the 2011/12 Liverpool to the 2008/9 Liverpool.

 

[spider-Neil]

the contribution from the midfielders/attackers is nothing short of a disgrace. you could understand it if we defended en masse like in GH's day with the emphasis on keeping it tight and then hitting teams on the break but that's not how we play at all.
being completely harsh I would have no problem with kenny selling ALL of his own signings (with the exception of maybe 3 players). we spent a lot of money (whatever the figure is) to make the squad worse. I love kenny to bits and definately think he needs more time but do I trust him (or comolli) to spend the money better in the next transfer window, to be honest I don't know if I do.

 

[Oncy]

can't get with oncy's post either.
suarez - can be said the only one of the signings to increase in value so is a success but his return as a striker is poor.
enrique - started well but is all over the place currently - to be fair, tiredness may be the reason.
downing - contributed next to nothing.
carroll - contributed next to nothing.
henderson contributed next to nothing.
adam - has contributed most of the midfielders but has a grand total of 6 assists and 2 goals.
bellamy - good value for his wages.
doni - hasn't played a single (obviously not his fault).

they've all (other than doni) have made contributions to winning a carling cup but it's not being unreasonable to expect much better return in the league. with regards to league contribution almost without exception it's been a fucking disaster.

Surely it would have been easier to type 'Ok i was wrong.'

 

[gene hughes]

Nobody is more dissappointed in what we did in summer than me Gene, but thats miles from 'Fuck all'
Ideally we would have signed Sakho and Young and Jones and Ba but these players did something that all of the talent we have had and Arsenal have had and Spurs have couldnt do and that is to bring home Silverware.
Kenny has as many trophies in one year in charge as Sheik Mansour has in 3 years paying 100's of millions at City. More in one year than Arsene Wenger has managed since Houllier was in charge of us.
It hasnt got fuck all to do with those players.
And i think you know I dont rate ANY of them that highly.

I know you don't which is why I thought you were drunk or something with your original post. For my part I don't think winning the least important domestic cup is an indicator of progress, it's an indicator of winning the third most important domestic cup. How you do in the league and Europe tells you far more about how good things are and what the future holds and based on that we're moving in the wrong direction.

 

[LeTallecWiz]

Are you saying it was a bad thing that we finished second, as opposed to 3rd or 4th or 9th? You seem to be saying that pushing United right to the end of that season was actually playing into their hands or something? Am I misunderstanding you? I know I do that sometimes to people.

We haven't won two trophies LTW, not yet anyway. I'm surprised that you are so dismissive of Benitez and his achievements. By your own estimation he built a team of excellent players and back then we prioritized the league and the Champions League at the expense of the lesser trophies you're now favoring.

I can't see how anyone would prefer the 2011/12 Liverpool to the 2008/9 Liverpool.

You're putting a lot of words into my mouth ...

I didn't say it was a 'bad thing.'

I wasn't 'dismissive of Benetiz and his achievements'

I never said I 'favored lesser trophies.'

It's false that Rafa 'prioritized the league' - that was one of the major complaints levied against him throughout his tenure.

I didn't say I 'prefer 2011/12 to 2008/09'.

 

[Oncy]

I know you don't which is why I thought you were drunk or something with your original post. For my part I don't think winning the least important domestic cup is an indicator of progress, it's an indicator of winning the third most important domestic cup. How you do in the league and Europe tells you far more about how good things are and what the future holds and based on that we're moving in the wrong direction.

My post wasnt about progress though Gene.
Spiderneil said they had contributed 'Fuck all' and I said that was unfair.
Did I want them? Carroll aside no.
Do I rate them? No.
But we won a cup with them. Silverware winners one and all.
Carroll, Downing, Bellamy and Suarez all scored on the way to winning a trophy. Downing was man of the match for me in the final, winning a trophy.
I know its the carling cup, i dont need schooling on its significance. But FUCK ALL it is not.

 

[gene hughes]

Sorry LTW, I didn't mean to misrepresent what you were saying. I probably read it too quickly. But if that isn't what you were saying, then what were you saying? Please don't answer if you're not comfortable with it, I don't want to start a fight or anything.

 

[gkmacca]

Gene's very downbeat these days. It's not like him. I hope he's eating properly.

 

[spider-Neil]

okay, they have contributed massively in the cups (one domestic cup and another semi final is no mean feat) but they have contributed very little in the league. I think that is a more fair way to put it.

 

[gene hughes]

My post wasnt about progress though Gene.
Spiderneil said they had contributed 'Fuck all' and I said that was unfair.
Did I want them? Carroll aside no.
Do I rate them? No.
But we won a cup with them. Silverware winners one and all.
Carroll, Downing, Bellamy and Suarez all scored on the way to winning a trophy. Downing was man of the match for me in the final, winning a trophy.
I know its the carling cup, i dont need schooling on its significance. But FUCK ALL it is not.

Ahhh, that makes sense. Yes, winning almost any trophy is not fuck all and some of the signings that are struggling the most excelled in that tournament. I agree.

 

[Oncy]

okay, they have contributed massively in the cups (one domestic cup and another semi final is no mean feat) but they have contributed very little in the league. I think that is a more fair way to put it.

As in the TOTAL opposite of your original stance.
Yes thats a more fair way to put it.