Is Our Defence Really Good ?

[moron]

Under Kenny - oh yes we apparently had one of the best defences last year, but thinking more deeply about our attacks last year I remember clearly that there was always this issue of never having enough players in the box to help the attack. This means that some of our other players were holding back and covering the defenders. Still due to our lack of finishing last term, it seems our defence would always let the odd goal in and we would end up drawing or losing.

This season - we are going forward in numbers, and the defence is more exposed, but it seems that every time we concede it is due to bad defending. So does this mean that the defenders we have are actually NOT that good ? Most of the goals we have let in this season seem to all be just f*cked up positioning or mistakes in judgement.

Agger maybe considered good, but is Skrtel and the others really good or are they only good when they have a lot of shielding in front of them ? - my own view is that the best defenders in the world have to have pace, can play with the ball, and have great positioning sence with the right body frame (like Hierro, Ferdinand). It seems our defenders are good only if you spend X Million on a shield for them.


----------------REMINDER - DEFENCE HISTORY UNDER DIFFERENT MANAGERS BELOW -----------

I remember the Roy Evans era - where one week we would be really good and the next week our defence would do something stupid and we would lose a game to Coventry City or Newcastle having dominated games. INCONSISTENT DEFENCE UNDER ROY.

I remember under GH - radical shift and we became a counter-attacking team so the defence had plenty of protection from midfield, and our attacks would in the most rely on a good ball to Owen/Heskey to use their pace to win us games. Sometimes we showed fuck all creative ability. EXCELLENT DEFENCE UNDER GH BUT LOTS OF MIDFIELD HELP.

I remember under Rafa - where we would defend in heavy numbers, again giving the midfield plenty of protection, the team would strangle and frustrate opposition into mistakes and we would win. Sometimes we would go for it, but if the other team could play then we would be in dangerous territory. EXCELLENT DEFENCE UNDER RAFA BUT LOTS OF MIDFIELD HELP.

 

[RedStar]

Yeah there is a difference between teams that defend well and teams that defend in numbers. last year we defended in numbers, Rodgers wont play that way, his system is to limit the oppositions chances through possession, right now we just arent playing well enough to see that pay dividends. But no I dont think we have a particularly good defence, teams arent even forced to play well to score against us we are gifting at least 1 goal per game away

 

[Farkmaster]

Even when we play really well, like against City, we make it easier for the opposition to score than we find it ourselves. It's been the case for several years now.

 

[RedStar]

Even when we play really well, like against City, we make it easier for the opposition to score than we find it ourselves. It's been the case for several years now.

Thats because individually and collectively our defence is not very good. They look solid when they have 3 defensive/holding midfielders in front of them as they did when Mascherano Alonso Kuyt were in place, but this season has clearly highlighted that our defence when left to its own devices is not up to a high standard, Agger aside I dont think anybody playing at the back for us should be particularly pleased with what they have contributed so far this season. 8 goals in 4 games is bad enough, but when you consider at least 4 of them were from our own fuck ups then there is a problem there.

Outscoring teams will not be an option this season so keeping it tight at the back is paramount, unfortunately we dont seem to have a defence capable of that. Until our midfield learns to starve the opposition of possession we are going to draw/lose alot of games

 

[moron]

Even when we play really well, like against City, we make it easier for the opposition to score than we find it ourselves. It's been the case for several years now.

Ah - now you have said something that has been on my mind for ... years. Many will argue its an over-reaction to our current situation but in reality it's not far from the truth at all. It is worrying when as RedStar has pointed out that we need 3 defensive midfielders in front of the back four to give us that strong defence, and given that we don't have a world class striker anymore we are not afforded the option of playing like that - not that we would under Rodgers. What it does highlight this season is that a single mistake from a misplaced pass in the thick of midfield or up front opens up an easy passage for the opposition to find our goal. I think BR has inherited a defence that is probably on par with his old Swansea defence - and if you look at his results from last season - many of the games ended up as draws and some has losses. I have a feeling that yesterday's game against Sunderland will be our standard typical performances for the rest of this season.

 

[gkmacca]

Under Kenny - oh yes we apparently had one of the best defences last year, but thinking more deeply about our attacks last year I remember clearly that there was always this issue of never having enough players in the box to help the attack.

This season - we are going forward in numbers, .

But this season we STILL lack players in the box. The last time we DID have plenty of players getting into the box was during Kenny's first few months in charge, such as against Fulham away. It's no good moving forwards as a unit this season but then stopping outside the area. Rodgers is supposed to favour attacking the last eighth of the pitch, but it hasn't happened so far. Time and again, Sterling or another wide player puts the ball into the area and there's no one there.

 

[keniget]

The problem, I think, is that we often judge players individually or on the back of individual performances and the reality is that they operate as part of a unit. I don't think our defensive unit is up to scratch.

Too often we place blame at the feet of midfielders or fullbacks for losing the ball in a bad position or failing to snuff out an attack and whilst we want everyone to aspire to perfection it's unrealistic to expect it. Our defence is there to cater for those occasions where mistakes happen, where the opposition do get at us and at this level you have to expect them to bail the team out more often than not. Right now I feel that if the opposition mount a half capable attack they are going to get a very good opportunity to score. That shouldn't be the case.

We're caught in this awful cycle of shitness as both attack and defence keep putting one another pressure. The defence is under pressure not to concede because we can't score and the attack is under increased pressure to score because we keep conceding.

 

[Rosco]

People blinded themselves with the "it's the third best defence in the Premier League" argument this summer. Without looking at why, which is what has been done already in this thread.

Our defence isn't particularly good. And it's been made to look a little bit worse than it actually is this season by Reina.

 

[RedStar]

Our defence isn't particularly good. And it's been made to look a little bit worse than it actually is this season by Reina.

Thats true, if your keeper is having a disaster of a season it is more detrimental than any other player on the pitch, but the fact remains that pretty much everybody in the back 5 seems to seems to be taking turns in having a meltdown.

In the long run its probably better for our defence to have a manager like Rodgers who wont ask them to do much defending but contrast the with a manager like O'Neill who always sets out a solid defence with very little ambition in the final third because his priority is always keeping a clean sheet. By the end of the season he will rack up plenty of them because his team are really unadventureous but that doesnt make them good defenders. I get the impression that there are going to be games this season against clinical attacking sides where we will be taken to the cleaners, next weekend has the potential to be a bloodbath

 

[juniormember]

The problem, I think, is that we often judge players individually or on the back of individual performances and the reality is that they operate as part of a unit. I don't think our defensive unit is up to scratch.

Too often we place blame at the feet of midfielders or fullbacks for losing the ball in a bad position or failing to snuff out an attack and whilst we want everyone to aspire to perfection it's unrealistic to expect it. Our defence is there to cater for those occasions where mistakes happen, where the opposition do get at us and at this level you have to expect them to bail the team out more often than not. Right now I feel that if the opposition mount a half capable attack they are going to get a very good opportunity to score. That shouldn't be the case.

We're caught in this awful cycle of shitness as both attack and defence keep putting one another pressure. The defence is under pressure not to concede because we can't score and the attack is under increased pressure to score because we keep conceding.

Perfectly put.

 

[Tinto]

In the long run its probably better for our defence to have a manager like Rodgers who wont ask them to do much defending but contrast the with a manager like O'Neill who always sets out a solid defence with very little ambition in the final third because his priority is always keeping a clean sheet. By the end of the season he will rack up plenty of them because his team are really unadventureous but that doesnt make them good defenders. I get the impression that there are going to be games this season against clinical attacking sides where we will be taken to the cleaners, next weekend has the potential to be a bloodbath

Sorry, I don't get how having horrible results every week in the immediate future will benefit us in the long term. Bad results will wreck confidence from the players to the manager so that we may never get to that wondeful future.

If next weekend has a potential to be a bloodbath, then our manager must do everything he can to stop it including compromising on his ideals.

 

[Insignificance]

The system is apparently that we are to control the ball, hence we don't need a good defence? Just a shame only Borini knows the system very well.....

 

[Woland]

If the keeper's flakey it's hard for the defence to have any sort of confidence.

I think most of our opposition watching the first few games will have a simple plan. Let us have the ball, it's not as if we're going to do anything with it, but at some point someone will give it away with the defence exposed and gift them a great chance.

 

[moron]

If the keeper's flakey it's hard for the defence to have any sort of confidence.

I think most of our opposition watching the first few games will have a simple plan. Let us have the ball, it's not as if we're going to do anything with it, but at some point someone will give it away with the defence exposed and gift them a great chance.

Unfortunately I find myself agreeing with most of what you have said and all the other posts. Not a single thing that puts our defence in a good light right now. I was hoping to be mocked and told to 'fuck off moron' as per usual but it seems my worse fears about our defence are actually shared by the regulars on here. Fuck me !!! - really I wonder what position we are going to end up in this season and I know its early and all but last seasons 8th place finish and 2 cup finals does not seem like a bad thing at all.

 

[mark1975]

The problem, I think, is that we often judge players individually or on the back of individual performances and the reality is that they operate as part of a unit. I don't think our defensive unit is up to scratch.

Too often we place blame at the feet of midfielders or fullbacks for losing the ball in a bad position or failing to snuff out an attack and whilst we want everyone to aspire to perfection it's unrealistic to expect it. Our defence is there to cater for those occasions where mistakes happen, where the opposition do get at us and at this level you have to expect them to bail the team out more often than not. Right now I feel that if the opposition mount a half capable attack they are going to get a very good opportunity to score. That shouldn't be the case.

We're caught in this awful cycle of shitness as both attack and defence keep putting one another pressure. The defence is under pressure not to concede because we can't score and the attack is under increased pressure to score because we keep conceding.

Pretty much. I still think we lack a commanding centre back, I don't think Agger and Skrtel impose themselves enough - though Skrtel did look to be growing into that sort of role last season, it's deserted him so far. I don't want to get into the Johnson argument again, but he's not good enough to rely on to keep things tight and cover consistently as he's too busy attacking, that might be the sort of fullback he is but it's at a detriment to us defensively, what we've gained in attacking play from deep, we've lost in stability. And I don't have much faith in Kelly or Enrique, unfortunately. Then there's the DM issue, we don't have a natural one and you can tell, even when Lucas is there, the opposition are continually gifted acres of space to run into in our half. I said it was an issue from the start of last season and it hasn't been sorted.

 

[Silver Sean]

Not sure why we're singling out the defence. We are not good in defence, midfield or attack, and our once-brilliant keeper has become a liability. It's going to be a long, mostly unpleasant season.

 

[Delinquent]

Thats because individually and collectively our defence is not very good. They look solid when they have 3 defensive/holding midfielders in front of them as they did when Mascherano Alonso Kuyt were in place, but this season has clearly highlighted that our defence when left to its own devices is not up to a high standard, Agger aside I dont think anybody playing at the back for us should be particularly pleased with what they have contributed so far this season. 8 goals in 4 games is bad enough, but when you consider at least 4 of them were from our own fuck ups then there is a problem there.

Outscoring teams will not be an option this season so keeping it tight at the back is paramount, unfortunately we dont seem to have a defence capable of that. Until our midfield learns to starve the opposition of possession we are going to draw/lose alot of games

We've played four games under a new system. One where we're encouraged to pass it around at the back. Skrtel was our player of the season last year. That was judged over 40+ games, in which only City and Utd conceded fewer goals. We also allowed the fewest shots on target of any team in the league. I think any assessment of our 'season', and indeed our players, should perhaps be informed by a bit of historical perspective, as well as the FOUR FUCKING GAMES we've played so far.