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Ian Ayre

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now i'm not accusing them of anything and maybe they are more involved than i know but i wonder would it benefit some transfers if Henry or Werner took a more hands on role . I mean if owners of selling clubs are involved maybe they'd feel more respect if they are hearing from their counterpart and not some minion who rode in on a bike . Ok i'm sure it's a similar setup at other clubs but you never know , it could help with some deals, show we mean business .
 
now i'm not accusing them of anything and maybe they are more involved than i know but i wonder would it benefit some transfers if Henry or Werner took a more hands on role . I mean if owners of selling clubs are involved maybe they'd feel more respect if they are hearing from their counterpart and not some minion who rode in on a bike . Ok i'm sure it's a similar setup at other clubs but you never know , it could help with some deals, show we mean business .


It might do us some good to have someone with a better reputation/track record that Ayre as well. None of us can take Ayre seriously, I imagine that at some extent trickles into his business dealings.
 
We are one of the biggest football clubs on the planet yet we continue to act like a mickey mouse club, so fucking frustating as are the people who try and defend the incompetence.
 
Totally disillusioned now..... if we miss top 4 now cos of this transfer committee set of cunts then lose suarez and go back to square 1 im out of this whole fucking lark....

Annoyed doesnt get close.

We are that close to becoming something again yet we have to do it the hard way yet a fucking gain

Piss

This club just can't help but shoot itself in the foot, it really cant, whenever things start looking up theres always something round the corner to ruin it, usually self inflicted to.
 
We are one of the biggest football clubs on the planet yet we continue to act like a mickey mouse club, so fucking frustating as are the people who try and defend the incompetence.


No one here has defended anything. The closest anyone has got to that is saying 'well, it's a bit harsh to call for heads when we don't know any of the details'.

Grow up.
 
There are some Man City fans up in arms that they didn't sign the players that SKY said they were after in Jan.

Also some Arsenal fans calling for Wenger's head 'cos they didn't sign Draxler.

Liverpool kids with 'Ian Ayre Out' post-its.

You're in good company.
 
And there you go conradicting yourself within 2 posts by making excuses and trying to defend Liverpools ineptness with some awfully weak spin.

I couldn't give a screw about any other club, it has no relevance at all.

At least you offered an opinion this time though instead of a attacking mine with snide digs without ever offering one of your own.
 
So does anyone on here have even half the details of what happened in the Ukraine?

No didn't think so.

Christ this place is moany sometimes.

We are fourth, just spanked Everton with a bigger score line than most can remember seeing and have 15 (maybe 19) games until the end of the season.

Our squad is easily big enough to cope until the summer.

Chill out.
 
If the man we send repeatedly to negotiate deals fails to make a deal materialise after this many tries, I think it's time to get somebody new for the job.

Suppose we make 4th at the end of the season. Is Ayre really the one we want working on high profile deals for a Pogba, or a Gundogan?

We've had players who aren't well known poached from under us in the last two windows in Mkhitaryan, Willian, and Salah. I'm not sure how serious negotiations with Diego Costa were, but at the time he wasn't very well known either. We clearly devoted a large amount of our resources to Konoplyanka these last few days, and also failed.

These aren't household names who are moving to bigger clubs we're missing out on, imagine the competition for well established players.

Details be damned, I think it's time to get someone who can actually close a deal. I'm not bothered if it's better in the long run that we didn't get Konoplyanka this window, I'm more concerned that this trend of missing out on primary targets is going to hurt us in the long run by either massively overpaying or losing out on talent we badly need.
 
Yeah, it's all about this one signing DB. Let's all chill out, we're sound, we've got Moses and Aspas in the wings.
And has been pointed out, the people who selected those two players that cost us £10m odd, are the reason we maybe didn't go in and slap all the money we could in the Ukraine, or maybe the owner was a tit or maybe most people on here have fuck all clue about what goes on in a transfer neg.

I know that I don't. Do you?
 
I agree that we need someone else in charge.
But the only transfer we've really looked like mugs is the Salah one.
Mhiktaryan had a 3rd party owner which made the deal very difficult for us. Its illegal in England but legal in Germany.
That was a massive advantage to Dortmund.
Costa only used our interest to get a new contract.
Willian was a 5 mill extra pay out to his agents. Easy for Chelsea and at the time Spurs.
Salah we fucked up.
Kono, well its pretty clear the multi billionaire owner fucked Ayre and Kono over.

So, its not that cut and dry in any case. But we need better. Ayre shouldnt be in this position and thats the owners fault.
Get someone with authority, football experience and ruthlessnes.
Our negotiation tactic is obviously not working.
 
And has been pointed out, the people who selected those two players that cost us £10m odd, are the reason we maybe didn't go in and slap all the money we could in the Ukraine, or maybe the owner was a tit or maybe most people on here have fuck all clue about what goes on in a transfer neg.

I know that I don't. Do you?

No, and as should be clear from my other posts in this thread, I (like others) am not hugely fussed about this 'target' being missed. I am, however, rather concerned about repeatedly missing out on targets, not having depth of options when looking who to bring in, and that multiple places have now indicated that the way we conduct ourselves in negotiations is slow and toothless.

I didn't even question not blowing money in the window, but as an earlier post said; leaving ourselves without at least a loan option in midfield/defence is stupid and could end up being costly.
 
Fuck me, a lot of over reactions here.

There's two issues basically:

One, we missed out on some Ukrainian winger most people didn't know existed a until this week.

Two, we missed out on a number of targets in the last couple of windows.

The first isn't bad tbh, considering we were dealing with one of the 4th richest people in the world who by all accounts really didn't want to sell the player but may have been swayed.

The second leads you to conclude there could well be issues regards how & who deals with negotiations & the transfer process.

I'm a tad busy this morning, but perhaps someone could open a thread about the transfer process itself where we can debate the last few transfers & look at what's gone wrong in each one (& for balance, the ones we've got right too, shock horror), if there's a common theme, & people make sensible suggestions about what the club could & should do remedy it?

It's gotta be better than mindlessly bitching in here anyways.
 
Shut up you tedious nob.


cut this shite out mate.

It's the same every window, Rodgers said early yesterday that the deal was complicated. The other players we missed out on were mostly big profile players who either chose better positioned clubs that could provide European football or we were priced out of it by clubs who had money because they'd just sold star players (Mata, Bale).

We're consistent high spenders and we're the second highest goal scorers in the league, we've scored double what Spurs have, Spurs who everyone said were so much more better than us at buying players.
 
We all think that Ayre is\was to blame but playing devils advocate could it not be that the Owners are the issue as much as Ayre....By that I mean we don't know whether he has to get their sign off for the deals, the structure, how much up front etc...

I apply that to all of the lost signings not just this one...

I do still think Ayre is prick though - he has a face you wanna punch
 
People moan about a lack of ambition with our targets, this is what happens when you try to compete with the big guns without European football in your itinerary. No one can question our ambition, hopefully with European football we'll hold the attraction to match that.
 
Much like a manager is only as good as his squad, a negotiator is only as good as his resources allow him to be.

It's pretty clear we did everything we could to close deals - but I think it's obvious our financial situation (FFP) didn't allow us to go to the lengths needed. That has little to do with Ayre's ability. You can't one day credit his ability to get deals done with sponsors and then say he's a shit negotiator when a transfer can't be done. Negotiation is an easily transferable skill, it's not like he forgets how to do it just because it's for a player and not a sponsor.


Soooooooooooooo much this ^^^^^^^^^^^^^
 
cut this shite out mate.

It's the same every window, Rodgers said early yesterday that the deal was complicated. The other players we missed out on were mostly big profile players who either chose better positioned clubs that could provide European football or we were priced out of it by clubs who had money because they'd just sold star players (Mata, Bale).

We're consistent high spenders and we're the second highest goal scorers in the league, we've scored double what Spurs have, Spurs who everyone said were so much more better than us at buying players.

Of course signing a player from a Ukrainian club owned by a clingy billionaire is going to be difficult, Rodgers has to give his front office an our if things don't pan out. Don't give his comments too much weight.


This is just papering over the cracks. None of the 5 targets we missed out on were "big profile players" at the time. They were quality absolutely, and were known talents to some extent, but it would be a huge stretch to say they were anywhere near as well known as people keep making it out. I would say now Diego Costa and Willian would fit that billing considering they're performing on a much bigger stage, but at that point it can hardly be said. I have no idea who we got priced out of by Spurs selling Bale, we didn't lose any targets to them.

There aren't any qualms from me about our spending, I don't blame the owners at all. It sounds more like we set a price on a player in our committee, and Ayre absolutely sticks to that number, there doesn't seem to be a ton of give/take which drags out these negotiations.

How many goals we can score is completely unrelated to the importance of securing our transfer targets. It's moronic to keep saying that it's okay to lose a transfer target because we have enough talent to hold our position. Losing that transfer target does nothing to benefit us in the short term or the long term because it wasn't an overpay, it was roughly market value, and at a position where we could use depth. We'll have to sign players of his ilk at a similar price in the summer anyways.

Spurs are better than us at buying players. At picking players to buy, maybe not. As far as negotiations go though, they are fantastic. Clubs are always going to have money, and we aren't going to be shopping in a bubble where we're the only club interested in players unless it's Aly Cissokho on loan. We're a much more desirable destination due to our success in the last year or so, if we can't play that up and keep drawing these negotiations out, clubs with greater financial power are going to make things very difficult this summer.
 
I don't know why people think we had money left over from the summer. In the last week we spunked 17m on Sakho.

I doubt we would have bought him if we bought Mkhitaryan/costa/whoever.

People moaned about having 4 first choice centre backs at the time, lo and behold we needed them.

People moaning now that in one of the highest scoring teams in the league we need a winger.... Nah. Not for me.

If Suarez or Sturridge gets injured the other one will pick up the slack. If both get injured then we're fucked, BUT buying a winger with a not magnificent goal return wouldn't have changed how the season would pan out.

Everyone needs to chill. We're a team on the rise, and sometimes players won't come to terms like that.

I'm sure we won't have this issue when we're Champions in the summer
 
It just feels like a Christmas morning and you discover that not only did you not get what you wished for, it turns out you didn't get anything at all.
 
cut this shite out mate.



It's the same every window, Rodgers said early yesterday that the deal was complicated. The other players we missed out on were mostly big profile players who either chose better positioned clubs that could provide European football or we were priced out of it by clubs who had money because they'd just sold star players (Mata, Bale).



We're consistent high spenders and we're the second highest goal scorers in the league, we've scored double what Spurs have, Spurs who everyone said were so much more better than us at buying players.


It wasn't the first time hes had a dig, he doesn't even give a reason why he disagrees with me, just gives it the the old snide belittling routine, sorry but he can do one with that shite.

The deal was only complicated because it was our club and clowns involved, surely their owner was prepared to sell otherwise we wouldn't of been over there in the first place or there for that long or have the player take a medical.

Its just bullshit as are all the excuses for the suits running the club, this season is so huge for Liverpool, such a big opportunity for the club and we don't sign anyone in the window, unbelievable, what a big slap in the face to all of us when you consider what FSG have said since they have come in, they have clearly proven now that they are full of shit.
 
My issue is not that we missed out on a Ukrainian winger. It's that we didn't even look like we were looking to address the issues within our squad.

That's not down to Ayre. That's down to whoever is making decisions about who we should be looking at. This is a blessing in disguise that we haven't been bent over for some winger who we don't really need. It means that the cash can be spent better elsewhere.

And to Ross' point, the fact that we can't just slap the cash down in this type of deal is because we have spent money on the likes of Aspas, Moses and Ilori and they have not even made an impression on the first team. That's £20m right there!
 
It wasn't the first time hes had a dig, he doesn't even give a reason why he disagrees with me, just gives it the the old snide belittling routine, sorry but he can do one with that shite.

The deal was only complicated because it was our club and clowns involved, surely their owner was prepared to sell otherwise we wouldn't of been over there in the first place or there for that long or have the player take a medical.

Its just bullshit as are all the excuses for the suits running the club, this season is so huge for Liverpool, such a big opportunity for the club and we don't sign anyone in the window, unbelievable, what a big slap in the face to all of us when you consider what FSG have said since they have come in, they have clearly proven now that they are full of shit.

Ok fair enough, I just noticed you'd been a bit agitated on here of late *handshakey*

People seem to be taking it for granted these days that everyone should buy in January. United bought because they had to, because they've been so shit, it gives Moyes more time and it had to be done because they've been so poor. Chelsea sold Mata, which funded Salah and Zouma (who they don't get till the Summer anyway) they brought back Matic but have always had the capacity to spend (what's new?), City have bought no one (not that they need to), Spurs have bought no one, Arsenal have brought in a loanee (and missed out on loads of targets again), Everton have brought in no one.

Like I said, if people want to criticise something, criticise that we're not scouting for gems that won't be pounced upon by the big guns, there's no point in us going head to head with Chelsea and City, because we'll more often than not lose out to financial and European Football pulling power - by the same token we spend in the tier that contains Spurs and Arsenal, two clubs in the capital who are in Europe.

FSG have proven they are full of shit? Go and look at what we've spent, at the commercial deals we're bringing in to pay dividends further down the line, people seriously need to get a grip and have a dose of perspective. We nearly went under 4 years ago, we've spent big since then and got back in the thick of it, did people expect a title and a conveyor belt of £30m signings?

Get real.
 
My issue is not that we missed out on a Ukrainian winger. It's that we didn't even look like we were looking to address the issues within our squad.

That's not down to Ayre. That's down to whoever is making decisions about who we should be looking at. This is a blessing in disguise that we haven't been bent over for some winger who we don't really need. It means that the cash can be spent better elsewhere.

And to Ross' point, the fact that we can't just slap the cash down in this type of deal is because we have spent money on the likes of Aspas, Moses and Ilori and they have not even made an impression on the first team. That's £20m right there!

EXACTLY!
 
If Ayre was sent over to Ukraine with 16m to spend up front on this lad, and we didn't get the deal done then I think he needs to take some of the blame.

But I don't see thats the case, we probably had the Salah budget and were hoping to defer the rest.

Ayre tried to get that done but it wasn't possible.

It seems to me it's being over ambitious is his only fault.

And I think as usual no matter what the club executives do they'll get the blame. If he had made no effort, he would have been criticised but he also gets criticised for spending three days in Ukraine trying to negotiate a deal.

I don't understand it
 
There was a link on here recently showing Henry making a presentation to the Boston Chamber of Commerce. He started the speech with a section talking about the connection (or lack of) between baseball and football, Boston and Liverpool. He said one thing was certain, there was no connection between the fans because when FSG spent $300m on Red Sox players the Liverpool fans were irate (meaning we had no empathy with Red Sox fans and wanted the money spent on LFC). He then said that it should have been the Red Sox fans who were irate (which caused laughter). Then he switched it round and said that when FGS spent "$200m excluding wages" on Liverpool players, the Boston fans were irate but it should have been the Liverpool fans. Whilst the point he then made was about winning the World Series and maybe the fans all started to think they (FSG) knew what they were doing, I immediately felt there was also another message in there; pretty thinly veiled criticism of the quality of the players bought for the money, which is why it was the fans of the club who spent the moneywho should have been irate (with the club scouting and management etc).

I can't speak about Boston, but for LFC, he's absolutely bang on, we've almost entirely wasted more than enough money for two top quality players on pure shite (Carroll, Aspas et al) or hyped-up-but-delivered-very-little (Allen) and the fans should be irate.

If Henry's comment was what I felt it was, public criticism of recent expenditure, then it is logical to assume that Ayre's hands are now very firmly tied when it comes to price negotiations and there is no possibility of doing what a lot of fans love to suggest, "just chuck a few million more on the table and seal the fucking deal, ffs". The fact that the club keep repeating our stance that we won't overpay for players suggests this is the truth of the matter; the owners and the 'transfer committee' have agreed values for players in advance and that's it, Ayre has to get that player within budget (not transfer fee alone as allegedly the owners got a shock in the past when costs quoted to them didn't include wages) or lose out. It would be stupid and also highly unlikely for the owners to then capitulate to higher demands at the last minute if another team comes in and offers more, or the selling club demand more just as we think we are close to sealing the deal.

Assuming this to be the situation, it's reasonable to make a case that the Salah negotiations took so long because Ayre just couldn't get it within budget and had to sit and wait to see if our offer was eventually accepted. In the end we lost out and all manner of self-serving reasons then got flung around t'inter klacker by agents, clubs and professional commentators, when the realities are likely staring us in the face; our committee valued Salah at 'x', it wasn't enough and the owners stuck to a plan instigated and agreed as a result of previous purchase debacles.

And then, from seemingly nowhere, this possible Kono' deal springs up and frustrated people are ranting "we should just pay what it takes because we didn't get Salah". That makes no sense whatsoever; with that approach we'd pretty soon be paying insane money for some over-hyped journeyman just because we hadn't landed a few previous targets. I don't need to say anything more about that approach as the results can be seen plodding around at West Ham.

Something I've seen asked online today is why we were prepared to pay more for "a lower priority target", once again implying our strategy is just one big mess. Is there any indisputable evidence that we wanted Salah more than Kono'. For all anybody knows we rated Kono' higher but he wasn't for sale so we went for Salah. Then Kono' came on the market late on (was he being openly talked about before being linked with us?) but in the end the owner decided not to sell. To me that's the most logical scenario; not for sale, suddenly open to offers, owner got cold feet and took him off the market. All the planning in the world can't overcome that sort of fickleness.

It's clear to me that the club have a very clear plan, which they've expressed publicly a number of times, and they are sticking to it, not least because of the disasters we had when we didn't do it this way. So, far from laying the blame at the feet of the man who is sent out with a maximum budget but it isn't enough, we need to be asking far, far bigger questions of those that choose the players we did buy, because most of them have been a waste of our limited resources. I actually think Rodgers and friends are (mostly) being excused this examination by people outside the club at present because of the huge improvements he's delivered on the pitch. I doubt that's the case within the club though.
 

There has been some pretty hysterical reaction to all of this as per. And someone has to be the scapegoat as per.

I think both are off target.

I'm not comfortable with our negotiating tactics, but I'm less comfortable with our ability to identify the correct targets. If we were to strengthen this window, we needed no attacking talent. We needed to bring in an established midfielder that can hold and at the very least a LB, given that Cissokho is shite and BR doesn't seem to fancy Enrique.

Every team makes mistakes in the transfer market. It's how you rectify them that's important.

And all this we missed out on Willian? How's he turned out again? His agent and his club were playing the game and trying to bend everyone over. We missed out? Good!

As for Costa, well it seems we were simply a stalking horse for a new contract.

Yes, it's hard to see us in that role, but we ain't been in the CL for some years, we've not won the league in 23 yrs, this whole "we're Liverpool" attitude won't see the top top players come here for the nostalgia!
 
Ha, I stopped paying attention last night at 8PM so I had no idea this morning. Normal people would go straight to the propert broadcasters to find out the news. I came here to see whether the latest thread was called 'Ian Ayre - The Useless Thundercunt' or 'KonoI'veForgottenYourNameAlready'.

It's a bit galling that we had £16M spend to cement our CL dreams and we couldn't manage it, but as others have said, winger was never one of our major priorities, IMO.
 
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