I hate to say it, but....

[TheBunnyman]

I think we've got to give him a few more games at least. He clearly still hasn't figured out his best CM, never mind his best XI. Now, I admit that's frustrating, and that we're playing really really badly at the moment, but Roy is quite old and take a long time to make his mind up about things. Obviously it depends on just how bad results and performances are, but I'd prefer to give him at least till Xmas to turn it round.

The problem with letting Kenny take over now is: what if results don't improve under the King? Would we then have to sack him too?

 

[Mamma Mia]

[quote author=Avmenon link=topic=42039.msg1182693#msg1182693 date=1285445853]
Anyone see Mamma Mia around?

There's some imaginary straw men he should look at.
[/quote]

Ha. Yeah, ok, you predicted it. I was just questioning when you were talking about them before the posts were made.

Anyway, they present a counter argument to threads like this rather than initiating the debate... so far.

 

[justdoit]

[quote author=Portly link=topic=42039.msg1182805#msg1182805 date=1285457629]
It's not so much a mistake by the club in appointing Hodgson, but a massive mistake by Hodgson in accepting the appointment.

He can't have realised how badly Rafa had run down our squad.

With our current player resources, mid-table mediocrity will be something of an achievement by Roy. Whether he plays 4-4-2, Christmas Tree, or 10 at the back, he can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.

They're just not good enough.
[/quote]

So do us a favor and list 10 other teams' squads that you would like us to swap with?

 

[Holle]

Chelsea
United
City
Arsenal
Inter
Barcelona
Real
Bayern Munich
Milan

Hell, I'd even swap with Spurs.

 

[justdoit]

[quote author=Doped White Mouse link=topic=42039.msg1182926#msg1182926 date=1285502387]
Chelsea
United
City
Arsenal
Inter
Barcelona
Real
Bayern Munich
Milan

Hell, I'd even swap with Spurs.
[/quote]

When did half of the teams above join the Premiership? Until then how is "mid-table mediocrity will be something of an achievement by Roy" possible?

 

[Holle]

'10 other teams'

 

[justdoit]

[quote author=Doped White Mouse link=topic=42039.msg1182929#msg1182929 date=1285502784]
'10 other teams'
[/quote]

With the context "With our current player resources, mid-table mediocrity will be something of an achievement by Roy."

 

[Portly]

I don't want to turn the thread into a "slagging off our players" thread, but I think that under Rafa, we were going backwards while other clubs were going forwards.

Watching us v Sunderland yesterday, Sunderland moved the ball around much more fluently and intelligently than we did. I think Hodgson has a hell of a task on his hands, and it is just to easy to blame him for under-performance.

 

[Holle]

[quote author=justdoit link=topic=42039.msg1182931#msg1182931 date=1285502942]
[quote author=Doped White Mouse link=topic=42039.msg1182929#msg1182929 date=1285502784]
'10 other teams'
[/quote]

With the context "With our current player resources, mid-table mediocrity will be something of an achievement by Roy."
[/quote]

Ok, it's only 5 teams then. Still enough.

 

[justdoit]

[quote author=Doped White Mouse link=topic=42039.msg1182933#msg1182933 date=1285503203]
[quote author=justdoit link=topic=42039.msg1182931#msg1182931 date=1285502942]
[quote author=Doped White Mouse link=topic=42039.msg1182929#msg1182929 date=1285502784]
'10 other teams'
[/quote]

With the context "With our current player resources, mid-table mediocrity will be something of an achievement by Roy."
[/quote]

Ok, it's only 5 teams then. Still enough.
[/quote]

Enough for what?

With 20 teams I suppose around 7th-14th are in the mid table. Assume there are 5 better squads, then how is "With our current player resources, mid-table mediocrity will be something of an achievement by Roy." logical?

 

[Asbo]

[quote author=Portly link=topic=42039.msg1182932#msg1182932 date=1285503110]
I don't want to turn the thread into a "slagging off our players" thread, but I think that under Rafa, we were going backwards while other clubs were going forwards.

Watching us v Sunderland yesterday, Sunderland moved the ball around much more fluently and intelligently than we did. I think Hodgson has a hell of a task on his hands, and it is just to easy to blame him for under-performance.
[/quote]

I'm sorry ( and this is not a Rafa love fest which It will get called), but we finished above Arsenal more seasons than not under Rafa, we actually got our best ever Premiership points under him the season before last.

The teams that caught us, spent more money than us in the last few years, City and Spurs.

We get told theres no player pot because we have no CL footy, but Spurs haven't had any AT ALL except for this season.

Bad ownership, and a drying up of funds right when we needed it most for that final push has hurt us, and made us fall from grace. (As well as some baffeling decisions from Rafa when he chased Cup instead of league position in quite a few games)

 

[ibromurph]

[quote author=justdoit link=topic=42039.msg1182931#msg1182931 date=1285502942]
[quote author=Doped White Mouse link=topic=42039.msg1182929#msg1182929 date=1285502784]
'10 other teams'
[/quote]

With the context "With our current player resources, mid-table mediocrity will be something of an achievement by Roy."
[/quote]

Well if you want to pedantic, there's 20 teams in the Premiership, so "mid-table mediocrity" isn't necessarily simply defined as exactly mid-table (i.e. 10th/11th place). It could be defined as the range from 6th-15th (as they're the mid-10 positions in the table; with positions 1-5 being defined as 'top' and positions 16-20 being defined as bottom).

So your question perhaps could be to name 5 better squads in the Premier league, which is possible.
This is, of course, ultimately all dependant on Portly's definition of mid-table as it's his statement we're hypothesizing over.

Edit: Then again, on further thought, you could divide the table into 3 and have 3 different ranges. Again, dependant on Portly's intention when using the word 'mid-table' on how he defines the mid-table ranges.

 

[rebel23]

Hate to say I told you so but I told you so.

For all those that wanted Rafa gone, then enjoy Hodgson

I've said from day one he'll be gone by xmas.

 

[Niall K]

Last season was a bundles of laughs too wasn't it ?

It was always going to be tough for him to do well quickly having taking over an average squad which cost millions and having fuck all to spend himself.

Having said that he hasn't really hasn't helped himself with some of the decisions he's made since taking over.

 

[Portly]

[quote author=rebel23 link=topic=42039.msg1182947#msg1182947 date=1285505145]
For all those that wanted Rafa gone, then enjoy Hodgson
[/quote]

Do you seriously believe we would have made a better start to the season had Rafa still been in charge? It's only speculation but I very much doubt it.

 

[peekay]

[quote author=Portly link=topic=42039.msg1182952#msg1182952 date=1285505933]
[quote author=rebel23 link=topic=42039.msg1182947#msg1182947 date=1285505145]
For all those that wanted Rafa gone, then enjoy Hodgson
[/quote]

Do you seriously believe we would have made a better start to the season had Rafa still been in charge? It's only speculation but I very much doubt it.
[/quote]

As you said, we can never be 100 % sure, but I believe we would have made a better start to the season under Rafa. I dont think we would have been outclassed to the extent at Man City away and we would have dominated possession at home against all the teams we would have expected to beat - Northampton, Sunderland.

Anyway, I do understand the reasons Rafa had to go. However, the timing was horribly wrong. We have a board in turmoil who have barely any football expertise. As a club we don't know what is going to happen next. Under such circumstances, I don't think it was prudent to change the manager when it was obvious that no top class manager was going to touch us.

 

[LeTallecWiz]

[quote author=peekay link=topic=42039.msg1182957#msg1182957 date=1285506409]
[quote author=Portly link=topic=42039.msg1182952#msg1182952 date=1285505933]
[quote author=rebel23 link=topic=42039.msg1182947#msg1182947 date=1285505145]
For all those that wanted Rafa gone, then enjoy Hodgson
[/quote]

Do you seriously believe we would have made a better start to the season had Rafa still been in charge? It's only speculation but I very much doubt it.
[/quote]

As you said, we can never be 100 % sure, but I believe we would have made a better start to the season under Rafa.

[/quote]

Even without Torres & Gerrard exactly? Or the other players who were completely disillusioned with what Rafa was preaching?

 

[shabuti]

all people who want Roy out are fools in my opinion, as one sky pundit said "these are not Roy Hodgson problems, these are Rafa problems! if Rafa had have stayed Liverpool would have started the same" an i agree poor Roy thrown in at the deep end with a club already in turmoil a backroom that half don't know their arse from there elbow an owners who don't do fuck all for the club, also an influential player leaving (masc) an many considering there options an players lacking in confidence an most witless fans are just jumping to one conclusion get Roy out! which is just a joke in my eyes. look at what Roy had to take on at the club look at what Rafa had left him with. as Mourinho said "2004 squad was better than 2005 squad 2005 squad was better than 2006 squad etc.." also 6 years under a manager then in comes a new one an people expect change straight away.

its a shame all clubs have to have dick head fans but you cant get away from it i just thought we didn't have this many but slowly all the dick heads are showing there true colours.

just my opinion also sorry if i have repeated some things already mentioned i just couldn't be bothered reading through all the negative shit people are saying on this

 

[peekay]

[quote author=LeTallecWiz link=topic=42039.msg1182958#msg1182958 date=1285506587]
[quote author=peekay link=topic=42039.msg1182957#msg1182957 date=1285506409]
[quote author=Portly link=topic=42039.msg1182952#msg1182952 date=1285505933]
[quote author=rebel23 link=topic=42039.msg1182947#msg1182947 date=1285505145]
For all those that wanted Rafa gone, then enjoy Hodgson
[/quote]

Do you seriously believe we would have made a better start to the season had Rafa still been in charge? It's only speculation but I very much doubt it.
[/quote]

As you said, we can never be 100 % sure, but I believe we would have made a better start to the season under Rafa.

[/quote]

Even without Torres & Gerrard exactly? Or the other players who were completely disillusioned with what Rafa was preaching?
[/quote]

I know my defense has too many ifs and buts, but I think Stevie would not have left. Maybe Torres would have. But I still think Rafa would have done better with our current team minus Torres plus a new semi-decent striker.

Well, the other players who were completely disillusioned with Rafa's preaching aren't exactly performing well under Hodgson also .

 

[peekay]

[quote author=shabuti link=topic=42039.msg1182974#msg1182974 date=1285509851]
all people who want Roy out are fools in my opinion, as one sky pundit said "these are not Roy Hodgson problems, these are Rafa problems! if Rafa had have stayed Liverpool would have started the same" an i agree poor Roy thrown in at the deep end with a club already in turmoil a backroom that half don't know their arse from there elbow an owners who don't do fuck all for the club, also an influential player leaving (masc) an many considering there options an players lacking in confidence an most witless fans are just jumping to one conclusion get Roy out! which is just a joke in my eyes. look at what Roy had to take on at the club look at what Rafa had left him with. as Mourinho said "2004 squad was better than 2005 squad 2005 squad was better than 2006 squad etc.." also 6 years under a manager then in comes a new one an people expect change straight away.

its a shame all clubs have to have dick head fans but you cant get away from it i just thought we didn't have this many but slowly all the dick heads are showing there true colours.

just my opinion also sorry if i have repeated some things already mentioned i just couldn't be bothered reading through all the negative shit people are saying on this
[/quote]

Whatever maybe your point, you might wanna avoid statements made by Sky pundits and Jose Mourinho to defend your arguments.

 

[Holle]

[quote author=justdoit link=topic=42039.msg1182936#msg1182936 date=1285503543]
[quote author=Doped White Mouse link=topic=42039.msg1182933#msg1182933 date=1285503203]
[quote author=justdoit link=topic=42039.msg1182931#msg1182931 date=1285502942]
[quote author=Doped White Mouse link=topic=42039.msg1182929#msg1182929 date=1285502784]
'10 other teams'
[/quote]

With the context "With our current player resources, mid-table mediocrity will be something of an achievement by Roy."
[/quote]

Ok, it's only 5 teams then. Still enough.
[/quote]

Enough for what?

With 20 teams I suppose around 7th-14th are in the mid table. Assume there are 5 better squads, then how is "With our current player resources, mid-table mediocrity will be something of an achievement by Roy." logical?
[/quote]

'Too much'.

I'd rather swap with nobody, ideally.

 

[shabuti]

[quote author=peekay link=topic=42039.msg1182976#msg1182976 date=1285510015]
[quote author=shabuti link=topic=42039.msg1182974#msg1182974 date=1285509851]
all people who want Roy out are fools in my opinion, as one sky pundit said "these are not Roy Hodgson problems, these are Rafa problems! if Rafa had have stayed Liverpool would have started the same" an i agree poor Roy thrown in at the deep end with a club already in turmoil a backroom that half don't know their arse from there elbow an owners who don't do fuck all for the club, also an influential player leaving (masc) an many considering there options an players lacking in confidence an most witless fans are just jumping to one conclusion get Roy out! which is just a joke in my eyes. look at what Roy had to take on at the club look at what Rafa had left him with. as Mourinho said "2004 squad was better than 2005 squad 2005 squad was better than 2006 squad etc.." also 6 years under a manager then in comes a new one an people expect change straight away.

its a shame all clubs have to have dick head fans but you cant get away from it i just thought we didn't have this many but slowly all the dick heads are showing there true colours.

just my opinion also sorry if i have repeated some things already mentioned i just couldn't be bothered reading through all the negative shit people are saying on this
[/quote]

Whatever maybe your point, you might wanna avoid statements made by Sky pundits and Jose Mourinho to defend your arguments.
[/quote]

there points seemed fair an valid to me why should i just ignore them, or do you just not like that it has some vein of truth to what they said.

 

[Asbo]

[quote author=shabuti link=topic=42039.msg1182974#msg1182974 date=1285509851]
all people who want Roy out are fools in my opinion, as one sky pundit said "these are not Roy Hodgson problems, these are Rafa problems! if Rafa had have stayed Liverpool would have started the same" an i agree poor Roy thrown in at the deep end with a club already in turmoil a backroom that half don't know their arse from there elbow an owners who don't do fuck all for the club, also an influential player leaving (masc) an many considering there options an players lacking in confidence an most witless fans are just jumping to one conclusion get Roy out! which is just a joke in my eyes. look at what Roy had to take on at the club look at what Rafa had left him with. as Mourinho said "2004 squad was better than 2005 squad 2005 squad was better than 2006 squad etc.." also 6 years under a manager then in comes a new one an people expect change straight away.

its a shame all clubs have to have dick head fans but you cant get away from it i just thought we didn't have this many but slowly all the dick heads are showing there true colours.

just my opinion also sorry if i have repeated some things already mentioned i just couldn't be bothered reading through all the negative shit people are saying on this
[/quote]

Roy said he was happy with a point against Birmingham, what OTHER Liverpool manager would ever go to Birmingham to play for a point, or be happy with it?

He played ALL the youth prospects we have (many out of position) in the ONE game and then blamed THEM for the defeat, not HE who picked the team, and sat there for OVER 90 Minutes watching the team HE picked getting outplayed and did FUCK ALL about it, no substitutions, no change of tactics until the 91 minute? WTF??

Then when someone pointed out Jonjo looked promising he said 'the other team were tired and made him look better' again WTF??

To top it all he dropped every single one of them for the next match, what has that done for there confidence??

Them we get to the shit that was yesterday, where Sunderland who haven't even scored a gaol at Anfield in TEN FUCKING YEARS, out play us and out pass us AT HOME, but blame Rafa by all means.

Roy only has Pepe Carragher Gerrard Cole and Torres for a spine of a team, how can we be expected to out perform Birmingham and Sunderland, with them playing for us??

Oh and it took him a full fucking week to reply to Fergies 'Torres is a cheat' remark, no doubt he was told to by someone?

and the icing on the cake he said after yesterdays match, we fully deserved our point WHAT! at home At Anfield we fully deserved our point!

Dickhead fans indeed.

 

[Portly]

[quote author=Asbo link=topic=42039.msg1182982#msg1182982 date=1285510721]
Roy said he was happy with a point against Birmingham, what OTHER Liverpool manager would ever go to Birmingham to play for a point, or be happy with it?
[/quote]

It's worth noting that no team in the Premier League has come away from St. Andrews with more than a point for over a year now.

 

[Asbo]

[quote author=Portly link=topic=42039.msg1182983#msg1182983 date=1285510951]
[quote author=Asbo link=topic=42039.msg1182982#msg1182982 date=1285510721]
Roy said he was happy with a point against Birmingham, what OTHER Liverpool manager would ever go to Birmingham to play for a point, or be happy with it?
[/quote]

It's worth noting that no team in the Premier League has come away from St. Andrews with more than a point for over a year now.
[/quote]

So everyone should go there and play for a point?

 

[Rosco]

Asbo what was your opinion when Rafa took off Torres last year at Birmingham ?

 

[spider-Neil]

[quote author=Rosco link=topic=42039.msg1182985#msg1182985 date=1285511096]
Asbo what was your opinion when Rafa took off Torres last year at Birmingham ?
[/quote]

totally vindicated as torres broke down not even a week later.

 

[Asbo]

[quote author=Rosco link=topic=42039.msg1182985#msg1182985 date=1285511096]
Asbo what was your opinion when Rafa took off Torres last year at Birmingham ?
[/quote]

Same as everyones, and same as he did before quite a few cup matches, he's leaving the league position for cup glory, and he's a dick, because we can still get both 4th and do well in the cup.

But I don't think he went there with the intention of drawing.

 

[ibromurph]

Whether Asbo is proven right in the end or not, at this stage, calling for the manager's head is just knee-jerkism, plain and simple. You can't change the philosophy of a team (that was built over 6 years) within 3months.

Yesterday was a setback and the only game league I would have expected us to have done far better in. Mind you, if Agger could head properly, we wouldn't be having this thread, would we.

Come xmas, and with the ownership situation hopefully resolved (positively), we'll know whether Roy Hodgson can hang at this level.

 

[Rosco]

I don't think Roy went there with the intention of drawing.

The difference between your response and Spidey's is enlightening though.