I hate to say it, but....

[ibromurph]

[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=42039.msg1182986#msg1182986 date=1285511308]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=42039.msg1182985#msg1182985 date=1285511096]
Asbo what was your opinion when Rafa took off Torres last year at Birmingham ?
[/quote]

totally vindicated as torres broke down not even a week later.
[/quote]

Nope. He would have broken down anyway. It just meant that we didn't win that game and 'rested' him pointlessly, for the last 10minutes.

By all accounts it also pushed Gerrard and Torres closer to the exit door in the summer.

 

[Asbo]

[quote author=Rosco link=topic=42039.msg1182989#msg1182989 date=1285511654]
I don't think Roy went there with the intention of drawing.

The difference between your response and Spidey's is enlightening though.
[/quote]

Whats your opinon of Roy?

His comments?

His plan 'B'

His overall impact?

 

[peekay]

[quote author=shabuti link=topic=42039.msg1182981#msg1182981 date=1285510618]
[quote author=peekay link=topic=42039.msg1182976#msg1182976 date=1285510015]
[quote author=shabuti link=topic=42039.msg1182974#msg1182974 date=1285509851]
all people who want Roy out are fools in my opinion, as one sky pundit said "these are not Roy Hodgson problems, these are Rafa problems! if Rafa had have stayed Liverpool would have started the same" an i agree poor Roy thrown in at the deep end with a club already in turmoil a backroom that half don't know their arse from there elbow an owners who don't do fuck all for the club, also an influential player leaving (masc) an many considering there options an players lacking in confidence an most witless fans are just jumping to one conclusion get Roy out! which is just a joke in my eyes. look at what Roy had to take on at the club look at what Rafa had left him with. as Mourinho said "2004 squad was better than 2005 squad 2005 squad was better than 2006 squad etc.." also 6 years under a manager then in comes a new one an people expect change straight away.

its a shame all clubs have to have dick head fans but you cant get away from it i just thought we didn't have this many but slowly all the dick heads are showing there true colours.

just my opinion also sorry if i have repeated some things already mentioned i just couldn't be bothered reading through all the negative shit people are saying on this
[/quote]

Whatever maybe your point, you might wanna avoid statements made by Sky pundits and Jose Mourinho to defend your arguments.
[/quote]

there points seemed fair an valid to me why should i just ignore them, or do you just not like that it has some vein of truth to what they said.
[/quote]

Do you actually believe that the squad which came second in the league was worse off than the squad he inherited. Rafa made some mistakes which lead to the squad being depleted, starting off with the selling of Crouch/Alonso etc. However he made steady progress in the first three years. You are trying to make it look as if there was a steady decline since 2004.

 

[SaintGeorge67]

So he took him off as he may have got injured, then got injured anyway?

 

[Rosco]

[quote author=Asbo link=topic=42039.msg1182991#msg1182991 date=1285511736]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=42039.msg1182989#msg1182989 date=1285511654]
I don't think Roy went there with the intention of drawing.

The difference between your response and Spidey's is enlightening though.
[/quote]

Whats your opinon of Roy?

His comments?

His plan 'B'

His overall impact?
[/quote]

He's had no impact, because thus far his approach appears to be too similar to Rafa's. Part of that is down to the lack of enough genuine options in the squad.

I think if you watch his entire interviews his comments don't come across as poorly as they do when you quote one sentence out of context, but overall they don't convey the right impression. He seems to be a little too kind to the players at the moment.

It's way too early to form an opinion on him yet, but it hasn't started well.

 

[Rosco]

[quote author=SaintGeorge67 link=topic=42039.msg1182993#msg1182993 date=1285511784]
So he took him off as he may have got injured, then got injured anyway?
[/quote]

Don't forget he played about 86 mins in a UEFA cup game in between

 

[spider-Neil]

[quote author=Rosco link=topic=42039.msg1182989#msg1182989 date=1285511654]
I don't think Roy went there with the intention of drawing.

The difference between your response and Spidey's is enlightening though.
[/quote]

because asbo thinks it was a bad decision and I thought it was an understandable one? truth is we played much better when torres went off, (for what ever reason).
many people thought rafa had lost the dressing (I don't think he had). weren't people also saying rafa had lost the dressing in the winter slump (of '08) before sweeping all before us (unfortunately too late to clinch the title)? rafa has a proven track for excelling after poor seasons.

what would we have lost had rafa stayed? mash? he went anyway. yossi? meh, who cares. gerrard and torres? I personally don't think gerrard would have left I don't give a shit what 'ITK' have to say on that I think his connection to the city runs too deep, and torres, not a foregone conclusion he would have left and if he did it would be a massive loss but we would be compensated.

I would rather have a world class manager and lose some big players than a mediocre manager who has no idea how to get the best out of those big players anyway.
look at the talent rafa has assembled in the youth, rafa had a long term project and he wasnt allowed to finish it.

the bottom line is I'd be fairly confident of rafa getting back into the CL, with or without torres, I have no confidence in roy getting into the top 4 WITH gerrard and torres.

 

[Asbo]

[quote author=Rosco link=topic=42039.msg1182995#msg1182995 date=1285512032]
[quote author=Asbo link=topic=42039.msg1182991#msg1182991 date=1285511736]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=42039.msg1182989#msg1182989 date=1285511654]
I don't think Roy went there with the intention of drawing.

The difference between your response and Spidey's is enlightening though.
[/quote]

Whats your opinon of Roy?

His comments?

His plan 'B'

His overall impact?
[/quote]

He's had no impact, because thus far his approach appears to be too similar to Rafa's. Part of that is down to the lack of enough genuine options in the squad.

I think if you watch his entire interviews his comments don't come across as poorly as they do when you quote one sentence out of context, but overall they don't convey the right impression. He seems to be a little too kind to the players at the moment.

It's way too early to form an opinion on him yet, but it hasn't started well.
[/quote]

Did you watch the Leage Cup match (or whatever its called nowadays?) Wasn't you at least wondering what the fuck he was doing sitting there watching the team he picked get outplayed, outfought, and out thought all over the pitch, actually it was almost EXACTLY the same as yesterday, we get an early 1-0 lead and get fucked for 90 mins, thankfully there was no extra time and pens yesterday though to help Sunderland.

Anyway back to the Cup game, why did he sit there for 90 mins with his head in his hands instead of trying to fix what was blatently not working?

He could have made a substitution in the 90, he could have tried to change formation or tactics.

He sat there looking lost, did that not make you think what the fuck is this silly old twat doing managing my team ??

 

[Wilko7]

I wanted Kenny to take over in the summer however I think Roy is a great lad and hope it works for him at Liverpool.

It laughable reading so much shite about his age from the pond life on here. Old bastard falling asleep etc. He's only three years older than Dalglish.

 

[ibromurph]

[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=42039.msg1182998#msg1182998 date=1285512503]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=42039.msg1182989#msg1182989 date=1285511654]
I don't think Roy went there with the intention of drawing.

The difference between your response and Spidey's is enlightening though.
[/quote]

because asbo thinks it was a bad decision and I thought it was an understandable one? truth is we played much better when torres went off, (for what ever reason).
many people thought rafa had lost the dressing (I don't think he had). weren't people also saying rafa had lost the dressing in the winter slump (of '08) before sweeping all before us (unfortunately too late to clinch the title)? rafa has a proven track for excelling after poor seasons.

what would we have lost had rafa stayed? mash? he went anyway. yossi? meh, who cares. gerrard and torres? I personally don't think gerrard would have left I don't give a shit what 'ITK' have to say on that I think his connection to the city runs too deep, and torres, not a foregone conclusion he would have left and if he did it would be a massive loss but we would be compensated.

I would rather have a world class manager and lose some big players than a mediocre manager who has no idea how to get the best out of those big players anyway.
look at the talent rafa has assembled in the youth, rafa had a long term project and he wasnt allowed to finish it.

the bottom line is I'd be fairly confident of rafa getting back into the CL, with or without torres, I have no confidence in roy getting into the top 4 WITH gerrard and torres.
[/quote]

That's all well and good, but you're forgetting the 'fact' that Rafa totally lost the plot towards the end. He WAS a world class tactician (when he first came; no-one can take that away from him, but) who turned into what I can only describe as a whinging, media-whoring madman in the last year. Every sound bite more embarrassing than the last.

Whether you think Roy was the right man for us or not, it doesn't taken away from the indisputable fact that a split from Benitez was right for both parties at the time. I'm guessing he will able to find some sanity in Italy and rebuild his reputation, whilst we will be able to (hopefully) arrest the slide with a new manager and new owners to follow. Because it was a slide. No way would we have finished in the top 6 with Rafa as manager this year (after all his history). We would have continued to slide down the table. A fresh face, in Roy, at least gives us a chance.

 

[willby]

personally confident Roy will do a better job then Rafa last season. inherited average squad after all. no more Toress upfront alone and less of Lucas and Poulsen together on the pitch and it should work!

 

[ibromurph]

[quote author=willby link=topic=42039.msg1183010#msg1183010 date=1285513775]
personally confident Roy will do a better job then Rafa last season. inherited average squad after all. no more Toress upfront alone and less of Lucas and Poulsen together on the pitch and it should work!
[/quote]

Yeah, although if only Roy had the 'usual' 20m spend, I dare say he'd have bought a better strike partner for Nando than N'Gog (and results would be more positive).

Credit to him for not constantly whinging in the media about lack of money and using that as an excuse for all his failings. Because, in fairness, he could.

 

[Hansern]

I think he needs to put more of his own tactics and prefered playing systems in to place. Holding on to Rafas 4-2-3-1 won't work. It didn't last season since we removed Alonso. And this season we have removed Masch aswell.

Play 4-4-2, put the opposition under pressure, and go into to every match with the idea that we are supposed to take charge of the game. With Poulsen/Lucas as the defensive unit there is so little creativity there that you're just asking for trouble. And since we're not able to retain possesion, since our midfielders can't move forwards or pass in any directon put back and sideways. We hoof the ball upfield. Towards a lonely Nando, who wins 1/10 headers. The centre backs wins the ball, and we are put under pressure, again. Torres is no target man.

Yesterday, we lined up with Poulsen and Gerrard. Which should have been enough against Sunderland, but yet again we struggle to put the opposition under pressure and can't retain possesion. Again, we were set incredibly deep, and our only option was to play towards Torres. Who couldn't do much with it tbh.

When we got N'Gog on, we had bodies upfront. You could hold the ball up for a bit longer, and we could move our entire team up the field.

So if Roy has any sense, he'll start with Meireles and Gerrard from now on, and play 2 upfront. Because we clearly lack the players to play 4-2-3-1.

 

[Wilko7]

Some good points, Jockey. The eleven players looked rather good on paper but not good on grass.

Gerrard and Raul should be in the centre of 4-4-2, at least at home. Kuyt is poor as a wide midfielder so he may as well be up front doing Torres' donkey work.

 

[Portly]

4-4-2 doesn't suit Dirk at all. In a 4-2-3-1 he can fit quite well into the link-up play, but 4-4-2 just horribly exposes his weaknesses.

 

[Wilko7]

Someone needs to play up with Torres. Not sure Kuyt is good enough to have a formation built around him.

 

[Fabio]

4-3-3

Not 4-5-1

4-3-3

 

[Oncy]

Mad innit. The whole club is rotton from the ground up. Its hard to know where to aim your ire.
Players, Manager, Owners, Past manager....

We're a fucking shambles. A complete fucking joke. We have to steal blag goals to get a draw at Sunderland. Does it never ever end.

 

[Fabio]

*looks for fast forward button to 4 years later*

What's happening then

*checks echo*

championship league leaders?

*tuts*

 

[Oncy]

[quote author=Fabio link=topic=42039.msg1183114#msg1183114 date=1285530752]
*looks for fast forward button to 4 years later*

What's happening then

*checks echo*

championship league leaders?

*tuts*


[/quote]We're in danger of being lost forever now. Im so fucked off with it all.

 

[Fabio]

[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=42039.msg1183118#msg1183118 date=1285530820]
[quote author=Fabio link=topic=42039.msg1183114#msg1183114 date=1285530752]
*looks for fast forward button to 4 years later*

What's happening then

*checks echo*

championship league leaders?

*tuts*


[/quote]We're in danger of being lost forever now. Im so fucked off with it all.
[/quote]

say the club went under, or exploded, or whatever. What would we do? Give up on the sport? I couldn't fathom giving it up or supporting someone else

AFC Liverpool or whatever it is might have a new season ticket holder!

 

[Loch Ness Monster]

Just stick with it fellas, some goals and wins are just around the corner.

*waits for KHL and a prediction of an unbeaten run*

 

[Fabio]

[quote author=Loch Ness Monster link=topic=42039.msg1183127#msg1183127 date=1285531272]
Just stick with it fellas, some goals and wins are just around the corner.

*waits for KHL and a prediction of an unbeaten run*
[/quote]

I agree bro, just the fear is all. If we play like we did at the end of matches then i believe a good run is gonna happen

it's just playing like that from the start

 

[ragehard]

[quote author=Wilko link=topic=42039.msg1183070#msg1183070 date=1285524865]
Some good points, Jockey. The eleven players looked rather good on paper but not good on grass.

Gerrard and Raul should be in the centre of 4-4-2, at least at home. Kuyt is poor as a wide midfielder so he may as well be up front doing Torres' donkey work.

[/quote]

cole on the left with agger behind him. johnson on the right with kelly behind him.

that's our best 11 i think in a 442 and would like to think we try it sooner rather than later.

 

[Loch Ness Monster]

Player motivation needs to be questioned, as they appear to only play after a half-time kicking and when the game is eeking away from them.

 

[Fabio]

[quote author=Loch Ness Monster link=topic=42039.msg1183131#msg1183131 date=1285531638]
Player motivation needs to be questioned, as they appear to only play after a half-time kicking and when the game is eeking away from them.
[/quote]

or in the case of johnson, not at all

 

[Oncy]

[quote author=Fabio link=topic=42039.msg1183128#msg1183128 date=1285531423]
[quote author=Loch Ness Monster link=topic=42039.msg1183127#msg1183127 date=1285531272]
Just stick with it fellas, some goals and wins are just around the corner.

*waits for KHL and a prediction of an unbeaten run*
[/quote]

I agree bro, just the fear is all. If we play like we did at the end of matches then i believe a good run is gonna happen

it's just playing like that from the start
[/quote]I agree too.
Drop Johnson the fat lazy cunt and play the Kelly.
Drop Skrtel and play the Agger
Drop the holding cunt and play Gerrard and Meireles in the middle
Play Cole where we bought him to play
Jobsagoodun.

 

[Fabio]

[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=42039.msg1183134#msg1183134 date=1285531756]
[quote author=Fabio link=topic=42039.msg1183128#msg1183128 date=1285531423]
[quote author=Loch Ness Monster link=topic=42039.msg1183127#msg1183127 date=1285531272]
Just stick with it fellas, some goals and wins are just around the corner.

*waits for KHL and a prediction of an unbeaten run*
[/quote]

I agree bro, just the fear is all. If we play like we did at the end of matches then i believe a good run is gonna happen

it's just playing like that from the start
[/quote]I agree too.
Drop Johnson the fat lazy cunt and play the Kelly.
Drop Skrtel and play the Agger
Drop the holding cunt and play Gerrard and Meireles in the middle
Play Cole where we bought him to play
Jobsagoodun.
[/quote]

For me Skrtel hasn't done anything wrong so it's a bit unfair to drop him, although we might as well try it

Every other point is bang on dat der button

 

[Oncy]

[quote author=Fabio link=topic=42039.msg1183139#msg1183139 date=1285531932]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=42039.msg1183134#msg1183134 date=1285531756]
[quote author=Fabio link=topic=42039.msg1183128#msg1183128 date=1285531423]
[quote author=Loch Ness Monster link=topic=42039.msg1183127#msg1183127 date=1285531272]
Just stick with it fellas, some goals and wins are just around the corner.

*waits for KHL and a prediction of an unbeaten run*
[/quote]

I agree bro, just the fear is all. If we play like we did at the end of matches then i believe a good run is gonna happen

it's just playing like that from the start
[/quote]I agree too.
Drop Johnson the fat lazy cunt and play the Kelly.
Drop Skrtel and play the Agger
Drop the holding cunt and play Gerrard and Meireles in the middle
Play Cole where we bought him to play
Jobsagoodun.
[/quote]

For me Skrtel hasn't done anything wrong so it's a bit unfair to drop him, although we might as well try it

Every other point is bang on dat der button
[/quote]The simple fact is we are shipping shit goals. Try something else. Its not working.
Agger ftw.

 

[Fabio]

Agger just needs to work on his heading