I hate to say it, but....
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[quote author=Asbo link=topic=42039.msg1183421#msg1183421 date=1285591105]
Our next 2 games against Blackpool and Everton, could be called 'relegation 6 pointers'.
I am joking..................... just.
[/quote]
I know this is an "if" considering the way we are playing but, were we to win both of them, then we'd be right back in the hunt for the Top 4 (god it pains me that this is the limit of our ambition at the mo) as Chelsea pretty much aside, the other top teams are having points taken off them by "lesser" sides.
WBA's result against Arsenal away, actually puts some perspective on our home win against them.
Our next 2 games against Blackpool and Everton, could be called 'relegation 6 pointers'.
I am joking..................... just.
[/quote]
I know this is an "if" considering the way we are playing but, were we to win both of them, then we'd be right back in the hunt for the Top 4 (god it pains me that this is the limit of our ambition at the mo) as Chelsea pretty much aside, the other top teams are having points taken off them by "lesser" sides.
WBA's result against Arsenal away, actually puts some perspective on our home win against them.
[quote author=Spionkop69 link=topic=42039.msg1183426#msg1183426 date=1285591581]
[quote author=Asbo link=topic=42039.msg1183421#msg1183421 date=1285591105]
Our next 2 games against Blackpool and Everton, could be called 'relegation 6 pointers'.
I am joking..................... just.
[/quote]
WBA's result against Arsenal away, actually puts some perspective on our home win against them.
[/quote]
I knew someone would say that! Does it put more or less perspective than Chelsea battering them 6-0?
Whatever, we actually won that game. I'd take a long series of boring, incompetent 1-0 victories if they were offered right now.
[quote author=Asbo link=topic=42039.msg1183421#msg1183421 date=1285591105]
Our next 2 games against Blackpool and Everton, could be called 'relegation 6 pointers'.
I am joking..................... just.
[/quote]
WBA's result against Arsenal away, actually puts some perspective on our home win against them.
[/quote]
I knew someone would say that! Does it put more or less perspective than Chelsea battering them 6-0?
Whatever, we actually won that game. I'd take a long series of boring, incompetent 1-0 victories if they were offered right now.
[quote author=Sunny link=topic=42039.msg1183437#msg1183437 date=1285592343]
Agree Bunny. Results over style any day of the week at the moment
[/quote]
Results over style any day of the week EVER
Agree Bunny. Results over style any day of the week at the moment
[/quote]
Results over style any day of the week EVER
[quote author=Asbo link=topic=42039.msg1183405#msg1183405 date=1285590252]
[quote author=KHL link=topic=42039.msg1183399#msg1183399 date=1285589696]
[quote author=Hansern link=topic=42039.msg1183304#msg1183304 date=1285575630]
It's just fantastic that we acutally have bought yet another player that we *hope* won't play.
5 mill £. Fuck off.
[/quote]
I won't be losing any sleep if Poulsen didn't feature in our next game as he hasn't exactly started well by any means.
That said he's for me not the main area of concern so far. What really bugged me in the Sunderland game was how deep Gerrard was lying. He was often finding himself alongside Poulsen who's a DM and sometimes even deeper with Poulsen laying further forward. That was just wrong.
This first and foremost occured after our freak goal mind as we had started brightly pushing players forward. Does this mean Roy is beeing over-cautions hitting the break as soon as we're in front or are the players instructed to sit as deep as was case here?
In any case I think Roy's got it wrong. We looked much better against United in the second half (as well as against anyone so far) when we were desperate to push forward and to me at least it seems the players are somehow beeing restricted by tactics which is influencing negatively.
Particularly in Gerrards case.
[/quote]
I can't see Gerrard Carragher and Sammy Lee, not raising any concerns if the team are told to play deep and play a holding game against dross at Anfield.
I think there just playing shite, for whatever reason, maybe the managers not putting his arms around players telling them they are great.
Mind you his remarks about Shelvy after the Cup game, where he was asked 'Shelvy looked good when he came on' and he replied, Yes the other team were tired and that made him look good, suggest he doesn't 'gee up' the players.
I look forward to teh Europe Game, the teams there seem to be allowed to express themselves and play with freedom.
The only match I've actually enjoyed with Roy as manager was our Europa 4-1 win, we passed, we moved, we created, and scored goals.
Why can't the fucking first team do the same??
[/quote]
We actually didnt play ver well in the game, but we got the goals towards the end.
[quote author=KHL link=topic=42039.msg1183399#msg1183399 date=1285589696]
[quote author=Hansern link=topic=42039.msg1183304#msg1183304 date=1285575630]
It's just fantastic that we acutally have bought yet another player that we *hope* won't play.
5 mill £. Fuck off.
[/quote]
I won't be losing any sleep if Poulsen didn't feature in our next game as he hasn't exactly started well by any means.
That said he's for me not the main area of concern so far. What really bugged me in the Sunderland game was how deep Gerrard was lying. He was often finding himself alongside Poulsen who's a DM and sometimes even deeper with Poulsen laying further forward. That was just wrong.
This first and foremost occured after our freak goal mind as we had started brightly pushing players forward. Does this mean Roy is beeing over-cautions hitting the break as soon as we're in front or are the players instructed to sit as deep as was case here?
In any case I think Roy's got it wrong. We looked much better against United in the second half (as well as against anyone so far) when we were desperate to push forward and to me at least it seems the players are somehow beeing restricted by tactics which is influencing negatively.
Particularly in Gerrards case.
[/quote]
I can't see Gerrard Carragher and Sammy Lee, not raising any concerns if the team are told to play deep and play a holding game against dross at Anfield.
I think there just playing shite, for whatever reason, maybe the managers not putting his arms around players telling them they are great.
Mind you his remarks about Shelvy after the Cup game, where he was asked 'Shelvy looked good when he came on' and he replied, Yes the other team were tired and that made him look good, suggest he doesn't 'gee up' the players.
I look forward to teh Europe Game, the teams there seem to be allowed to express themselves and play with freedom.
The only match I've actually enjoyed with Roy as manager was our Europa 4-1 win, we passed, we moved, we created, and scored goals.
Why can't the fucking first team do the same??
[/quote]
We actually didnt play ver well in the game, but we got the goals towards the end.
[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=42039.msg1183435#msg1183435 date=1285592231]
[quote author=Spionkop69 link=topic=42039.msg1183426#msg1183426 date=1285591581]
[quote author=Asbo link=topic=42039.msg1183421#msg1183421 date=1285591105]
Our next 2 games against Blackpool and Everton, could be called 'relegation 6 pointers'.
I am joking..................... just.
[/quote]
WBA's result against Arsenal away, actually puts some perspective on our home win against them.
[/quote]
I knew someone would say that! Does it put more or less perspective than Chelsea battering them 6-0?
Whatever, we actually won that game. I'd take a long series of boring, incompetent 1-0 victories if they were offered right now.
[/quote]
That's actually how we used to win most of the time, in all fairness.
[quote author=Spionkop69 link=topic=42039.msg1183426#msg1183426 date=1285591581]
[quote author=Asbo link=topic=42039.msg1183421#msg1183421 date=1285591105]
Our next 2 games against Blackpool and Everton, could be called 'relegation 6 pointers'.
I am joking..................... just.
[/quote]
WBA's result against Arsenal away, actually puts some perspective on our home win against them.
[/quote]
I knew someone would say that! Does it put more or less perspective than Chelsea battering them 6-0?
Whatever, we actually won that game. I'd take a long series of boring, incompetent 1-0 victories if they were offered right now.
[/quote]
That's actually how we used to win most of the time, in all fairness.
[quote author=KHL link=topic=42039.msg1183420#msg1183420 date=1285591063]
I have no problems at all with him given more time to prove himself. In fact he deserves exactly that as no-one can do wonders from day one coming into a club with our current climate.
Not even Mourinho at Madrid seems to just click from day one.
Having said that however I'm getting increasingly concerned, not with his choice of personel as that is pretty much our strongest players beeing played, but his very defensive approach. Not even under Rafa has we stood so far back on our own half against anyone at home at Anfield. We've played poorly and lost vital points many a time but we've at least tried to take the game to the opponents half.
The way our players just stood at the back waiting for movement that never came in front of them against Sunderland was cringe-worthy to watch. We really need to see our players beeing allowed to push forward in numbers not just waiting for the opponents to enter our half on the ball.
[/quote]
But would it have been concidered a wonder if we won one PL game at home?
I have no problems at all with him given more time to prove himself. In fact he deserves exactly that as no-one can do wonders from day one coming into a club with our current climate.
Not even Mourinho at Madrid seems to just click from day one.
Having said that however I'm getting increasingly concerned, not with his choice of personel as that is pretty much our strongest players beeing played, but his very defensive approach. Not even under Rafa has we stood so far back on our own half against anyone at home at Anfield. We've played poorly and lost vital points many a time but we've at least tried to take the game to the opponents half.
The way our players just stood at the back waiting for movement that never came in front of them against Sunderland was cringe-worthy to watch. We really need to see our players beeing allowed to push forward in numbers not just waiting for the opponents to enter our half on the ball.
[/quote]
But would it have been concidered a wonder if we won one PL game at home?
I don't think we are deliberately playing defensive football. I think it just looks like that because our midfield hasn't got many ideas how to string together attacking moves. Torres spends a lot of time waiting for somebody to get the ball to him, while our midfield are playing it sideways and backwards.
T
the_khl
Guest
[quote author=Hansern link=topic=42039.msg1183508#msg1183508 date=1285595934]
Having looked at Shelvey in some games, I'd actually rather just played him. And spent those 4,5 mill on someone else.
[/quote]
You've got to admit that it would be a career threatening move to throw him in at the deep end at this point. Shelvey could end up loose every bit of self-confidence left should he completely fall through. He's talented and strong but obviously not at Premier League level so far which I reckon the game today certainly shows.
Having looked at Shelvey in some games, I'd actually rather just played him. And spent those 4,5 mill on someone else.
[/quote]
You've got to admit that it would be a career threatening move to throw him in at the deep end at this point. Shelvey could end up loose every bit of self-confidence left should he completely fall through. He's talented and strong but obviously not at Premier League level so far which I reckon the game today certainly shows.
[quote author=Portly link=topic=42039.msg1183504#msg1183504 date=1285595690]
I don't think we are deliberately playing defensive football. I think it just looks like that because our midfield hasn't got many ideas how to string together attacking moves. Torres spends a lot of time waiting for somebody to get the ball to him, while our midfield are playing it sideways and backwards.
[/quote]
This.
I don't think we are deliberately playing defensive football. I think it just looks like that because our midfield hasn't got many ideas how to string together attacking moves. Torres spends a lot of time waiting for somebody to get the ball to him, while our midfield are playing it sideways and backwards.
[/quote]
This.
He has certainly shown more than Poulsen. Who just looks old, slow, bad passer and have lost more than he should in 50/50 challenges.
The money should just have been spent elsewhere. If you're good enough you're old enough. Something about Shelvey just says that he would step up given the chance.
The money should just have been spent elsewhere. If you're good enough you're old enough. Something about Shelvey just says that he would step up given the chance.
[quote author=Hansern link=topic=42039.msg1183519#msg1183519 date=1285597087]
He has certainly shown more than Poulsen. Who just looks old, slow, bad passer and have lost more than he should in 50/50 challenges.
The money should just have been spent elsewhere. If you're good enough you're old enough. Something about Shelvey just says that he would step up given the chance.
[/quote]
I don't understand how someone of 30 years of age can look so clueless. there are times when there is a player literally in yards of space and he'll delay the pass to survey his options. I've bearly seen poulsen and already I can't fucking stand him.
He has certainly shown more than Poulsen. Who just looks old, slow, bad passer and have lost more than he should in 50/50 challenges.
The money should just have been spent elsewhere. If you're good enough you're old enough. Something about Shelvey just says that he would step up given the chance.
[/quote]
I don't understand how someone of 30 years of age can look so clueless. there are times when there is a player literally in yards of space and he'll delay the pass to survey his options. I've bearly seen poulsen and already I can't fucking stand him.
I'm not giving up on him yet. It's only days since he was in our top three against the Mancs at Old Toilet.
[quote author=RolandG link=topic=42039.msg1183628#msg1183628 date=1285616939]
Insignificance: What game plan? I'm yet to see it!
[/quote]
Its the one that worked "wonders" at Fulham. We try to destroy and defend well, but Roy is not very good at having his team apply pressure. We are pressing one and one, and it is quit easy to surpass us.
Insignificance: What game plan? I'm yet to see it!
[/quote]
Its the one that worked "wonders" at Fulham. We try to destroy and defend well, but Roy is not very good at having his team apply pressure. We are pressing one and one, and it is quit easy to surpass us.
[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=42039.msg1183411#msg1183411 date=1285590493]
“He wanted us to be very organised and focus on defence," Partanen added.
"We usually defended with eight men. The first thing was always to have a clean sheet and after that we hoped we would snatch a goal from somewhere - set-piece or a counter-attack. Hodgson's philosophy was that as individuals we can't beat the big countries but that we can beat them as a team, as a solid defensive unit."
[/quote]
Ring any bells?
“He wanted us to be very organised and focus on defence," Partanen added.
"We usually defended with eight men. The first thing was always to have a clean sheet and after that we hoped we would snatch a goal from somewhere - set-piece or a counter-attack. Hodgson's philosophy was that as individuals we can't beat the big countries but that we can beat them as a team, as a solid defensive unit."
[/quote]
Ring any bells?
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=42039.msg1183780#msg1183780 date=1285658483]
I don't think we're that defensive. I think people are mixing up the fact that we're not playing very good football, with being defensive.
[/quote]
We are at least not being very good defensive.
I don't think we're that defensive. I think people are mixing up the fact that we're not playing very good football, with being defensive.
[/quote]
We are at least not being very good defensive.
Two solid banks of 4 no more than 10 yards from each other? Massive gap between midfield and attack? Very few opportunities created in attack? Sharing possession with the likes of Sunderland and West Brom at Anfield?
We've been playing defensively, mark (albeit getting that wrong, too).
We've been playing defensively, mark (albeit getting that wrong, too).
[quote author=Insignificance link=topic=42039.msg1183781#msg1183781 date=1285658642]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=42039.msg1183780#msg1183780 date=1285658483]
I don't think we're that defensive. I think people are mixing up the fact that we're not playing very good football, with being defensive.
[/quote]
We are at least not being very good defensive.
[/quote]
Well exactly, so how can we be 'defensive'? It'll take time to settle into however he wants us to play. For all of these 'defensive' snides that he keeps getting, a few players (particularly) from Fulham have maintained that his attacking philosophy was to allow his creative players the freedom to do what they do best, with a back four that was solid. I know we're yet to see it in practice, but as a footballing ideal, what's wrong with that? It's one thing asking a small country to defend as a team against teams of superstars, I think managing Liverpool (or Fulham for that matter) is a bit different.
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=42039.msg1183780#msg1183780 date=1285658483]
I don't think we're that defensive. I think people are mixing up the fact that we're not playing very good football, with being defensive.
[/quote]
We are at least not being very good defensive.
[/quote]
Well exactly, so how can we be 'defensive'? It'll take time to settle into however he wants us to play. For all of these 'defensive' snides that he keeps getting, a few players (particularly) from Fulham have maintained that his attacking philosophy was to allow his creative players the freedom to do what they do best, with a back four that was solid. I know we're yet to see it in practice, but as a footballing ideal, what's wrong with that? It's one thing asking a small country to defend as a team against teams of superstars, I think managing Liverpool (or Fulham for that matter) is a bit different.
[quote author=Delinquent link=topic=42039.msg1183782#msg1183782 date=1285658771]
Two solid banks of 4 no more than 10 yards from each other? Massive gap between midfield and attack? Very few opportunities created in attack? Sharing possession with the likes of Sunderland and West Brom at Anfield?
We've been playing defensively, mark (albeit getting that wrong, too).
[/quote]
Yup.
Two solid banks of 4 no more than 10 yards from each other? Massive gap between midfield and attack? Very few opportunities created in attack? Sharing possession with the likes of Sunderland and West Brom at Anfield?
We've been playing defensively, mark (albeit getting that wrong, too).
[/quote]
Yup.
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=42039.msg1183784#msg1183784 date=1285658971]
[quote author=Insignificance link=topic=42039.msg1183781#msg1183781 date=1285658642]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=42039.msg1183780#msg1183780 date=1285658483]
I don't think we're that defensive. I think people are mixing up the fact that we're not playing very good football, with being defensive.
[/quote]
We are at least not being very good defensive.
[/quote]
Well exactly, so how can we be 'defensive'? It'll take time to settle into however he wants us to play. For all of these 'defensive' snides that he keeps getting, a few players (particularly) from Fulham have maintained that his attacking philosophy was to allow his creative players the freedom to do what they do best, with a back four that was solid. I know we're yet to see it in practice, but as a footballing ideal, what's wrong with that? It's one thing asking a small country to defend as a team against teams of superstars, I think managing Liverpool (or Fulham for that matter) is a bit different.
[/quote]
Whats wrong with that is that we will base our playon coincidents rather than having a fixed attacking pattern that will dictate ou attacki. I of course dont mean that we allways should attack the same way, but we should have roles for each player so that the team unit know where we are and how we will think as a unit. I.e.should the wide players stay out wide to create a stretch in their defence. SHow should the two strikers move when we establish on the right and on the left. A fixed pattern for everyone to know, and then we start improvising within this pattern,. To just give everyone freedom is the same as saying "Our coach is not very good and dont have a clue, so we just see how the game goes." And that is the feeling I have after watching the first few games with Roy.
When it comes to defending, we are not very aggressive after loosing the ball. Watching i.e. Mourinhos and Benitez teams in the way the pressure is very different from what we can see so far with Roys team. And defensive pressure as a unit is not very difficult to implement in a team which allready was very good at this. But sadly it looks like rOy doesnt have that tactical knowledge either.
[quote author=Insignificance link=topic=42039.msg1183781#msg1183781 date=1285658642]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=42039.msg1183780#msg1183780 date=1285658483]
I don't think we're that defensive. I think people are mixing up the fact that we're not playing very good football, with being defensive.
[/quote]
We are at least not being very good defensive.
[/quote]
Well exactly, so how can we be 'defensive'? It'll take time to settle into however he wants us to play. For all of these 'defensive' snides that he keeps getting, a few players (particularly) from Fulham have maintained that his attacking philosophy was to allow his creative players the freedom to do what they do best, with a back four that was solid. I know we're yet to see it in practice, but as a footballing ideal, what's wrong with that? It's one thing asking a small country to defend as a team against teams of superstars, I think managing Liverpool (or Fulham for that matter) is a bit different.
[/quote]
Whats wrong with that is that we will base our playon coincidents rather than having a fixed attacking pattern that will dictate ou attacki. I of course dont mean that we allways should attack the same way, but we should have roles for each player so that the team unit know where we are and how we will think as a unit. I.e.should the wide players stay out wide to create a stretch in their defence. SHow should the two strikers move when we establish on the right and on the left. A fixed pattern for everyone to know, and then we start improvising within this pattern,. To just give everyone freedom is the same as saying "Our coach is not very good and dont have a clue, so we just see how the game goes." And that is the feeling I have after watching the first few games with Roy.
When it comes to defending, we are not very aggressive after loosing the ball. Watching i.e. Mourinhos and Benitez teams in the way the pressure is very different from what we can see so far with Roys team. And defensive pressure as a unit is not very difficult to implement in a team which allready was very good at this. But sadly it looks like rOy doesnt have that tactical knowledge either.
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