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Howard Webb

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Hansern

Thinks he owns the place
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Last 5 years he's officiated 22 Liverpool games. We've won 6 and lost 14 which is the worst results we have under any referee in the league.

So, is it because he usually takes charge of the bigger games and thats why we've lost more, or can we feel hard done by in some games?
 
Last 5 years he's officiated 22 Liverpool games. We've won 6 and lost 14 which is the worst results we have under any referee in the league.

So, is it because he usually takes charge of the bigger games and thats why we've lost more, or can we feel hard done by in some games?



A bit of both I think. Pretty sure I've read that we had a great record in his first 5 years as a PL ref (when he presumably was reffing us against shitty teams).
 
The latter.
He's bottled it and fucked us over on a few occasions this season already, let alone over the last 5 years.
England's best my arse.
 
He's a bad referee (surely relative to his status as England's senior referee).
Too many blatant mistakes in high profile games and he's still there at the top.

I don't know if those mistakes are "innocent" or are driven by him not liking us or preferring other "bigger" teams. I'm not even sure if his mistakes are always against us.

Maybe @King Binny can come up with the stats.
 
He used to be a decent ref, got credit for it then believed his own hype and has pretty poor since.

Always wondered if he fancied himself as the English Colinia (sp?). Now that was a good ref
 
tbf, Suarez doing triple Salchows is never likely to persuade any ref to the merit of the foul. If Suarez stopped acting like he'd been electrocuted he'd win more fouls
 
Sad thing is the FA seem reluctant to demote him or give him a bollocking for poor performances just because of his international reputation.

He apparantly suggested that referees could comment on their decisions after the game and explain some of their actions, the FA doesnt want that though.

I think they do this quite successfully in Germany.
 
He used to be a decent ref, got credit for it then believed his own hype and has pretty poor since.

Always wondered if he fancied himself as the English Colinia (sp?). Now that was a good ref


Yes, he started off well enough. They all seem incredibly dim, though, like with their ludicrous belief that if they put a huge great silly grin on their faces after making daft decisions people will excuse them, rather than want to hit them even harder than they did before.
 
I think he's a referee who prefers 'bigger' teams.
As we win more we should get more from him.

And now that Fergie's gone, he's a free agent.
 
tbf, Suarez doing triple Salchows is never likely to persuade any ref to the merit of the foul. If Suarez stopped acting like he'd been electrocuted he'd win more fouls

Any fool could see that Suarez was blatantly fouled on Sunday. Webb was literally two yards away with no obstruction of his view. So his decision had nothing to do with Suarez reactions to tackles.

If it is the case why did he give the first penalty?
 
He's obviously got it in for us and is a blatant scum fan, but, if Suarez didn't jump and roll around like a tit so much he might have got that 2nd penalty and many more in other games, he needs to fucking sort it out. Yes, go down, but stop making out like you're giving birth in the fucking process you giant fanny.

Webb has reffed a lot of our big games, and refs dont like giving big decisions in the big games, none of them do, they don't have the balls when the whole world is watching. It's much easier to give the scum a penalty at old trafford when everyone will be on your side.

He's not the worst ref in the league, but he's not near the top for me.

The bottom line is though, Sturridge could have put the game beyond refereeing decisions, but he didn't, and we shouldn't be relying on getting these calls, we should just be battering teams and finishing our chances, we're more than capable.
 
Any fool could see that Suarez was blatantly fouled on Sunday. Webb was literally two yards away with no obstruction of his view. So his decision had nothing to do with Suarez reactions to tackles.

If it is the case why did he give the first penalty?

his first was much less theatrical than the 2nd innit
 
I my view whether players leap up like salmon and flap around or fall like Proust over-dosing on cork fumes should be irrelevant for refs. Were they fouled or weren't they - that should be the only concern. This 'going down too easily' excuse has been handed to refs by pundits who stare too long at slo-mo replays and it is a distraction. It's high speed contact and people read way too much into the replays. It's also the case that some players squeal like girls when they're genuinely injured (eg Borini) and some don't make a fuss. Totally irrelevant. No ref should be allowed to hide behind any of that crap. Refs like Webb bottle it and then shift the blame.
 
I my view whether players leap up like salmon and flap around or fall like Proust over-dosing on cork fumes should be irrelevant for refs. Were they fouled or weren't they - that should be the only concern. This 'going down too easily' excuse has been handed to refs by pundits who stare too long at slo-mo replays and it is a distraction. It's high speed contact and people read way too much into the replays. It's also the case that some players squeal like girls when they're genuinely injured (eg Borini) and some don't make a fuss. Totally irrelevant. No ref should be allowed to hide behind any of that crap. Refs like Webb bottle it and then shift the blame.


Agreed. Suarez was hit at pace who gives a fuck how he went down. 2 yards made all the difference because if that foul was outside the box 100 times out of a 100 the cunt would have given a free kick, He just bottled it end of, just like he did when Eto'o raked his studs down Hendos' shin right in front of him. He's done this is other games I've seen recently he's just incompetent.
 
He judges by context. Eto wasn't sent off cos it was the first few minutes. The penalty wasn't given cos it was immediately following the first pen.


That's a good point. He does indeed. It's a fault, but all too common these days (well, I guess any days actually).
 
Sad thing is the FA seem reluctant to demote him or givehim a bollocking for poor performances just because of his international reputation.

He apparantly suggested that referees could comment on their decisions after the game and explain some of their actions, the FA doesnt want that though.

I think they do this quite successfully in Germany.

II thought a few years ago that Sky should have a one programme midweek witha random member of the top flight referee's going through sll the contentious decisions with Andy Gray getting them to explain why exactly the ref reacted as he did. I reckon the first couple of months would have been like circling the wagons, but after awhile they wouldn't be able to defend the indefensible and from then on we might have gotten better refereeing as they knew their peers would critique them.
 
II thought a few years ago that Sky should have a one programme midweek witha random member of the top flight referee's going through sll the contentious decisions with Andy Gray getting them to explain why exactly the ref reacted as he did. I reckon the first couple of months would have been like circling the wagons, but after awhile they wouldn't be able to defend the indefensible and from then on we might have gotten better refereeing as they knew their peers would critique them.


The sad thing is they're like the mafia. You sleep with the fishes if you even make the odd public criticism. Look at Mark Halsey - BT got him in to act as a 'live' commentator of referees during games, but the refs complained, the FA had a word and he was quietly dropped for his role. It's a perfectly good idea but this bunch really don't want any monitoring at all.
 
[article=http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/competitions/premier-league/10644977/The-stats-that-prove-Howard-Webb-bottles-big-decisions.html]The stats that prove Howard Webb bottles big decisions
Since refereeing the 2010 World Cup final, Howard Webb's decision-making in big matches has changed and Jonathan Liew reveals how...


Everybody loves having a pop at referees. Even referees. Howard Webb's display in the FA Cup tie between Arsenal and Liverpool attracted a good deal of criticism, not least from former referee Graham Poll. "With his experience and pedigree, Webb should do better," he wrote in his Daily Mail column.

But the problem with Webb, his detractors claim, isn't that he makes bad decisions. It's that he doesn't make decisions at all. On Sunday, he could have given Luis Suarez a penalty and sent off Steven Gerrard, but didn't. On Jan 1, he could have given Manchester United a penalty against Tottenham when Hugo Lloris brought down Ashley Young with four minutes left, but didn't.

When it comes to the big moments of the big games, so goes the theory, Webb swallows his whistle. Psychologists call this "omission bias" - the idea that not doing something when you should is better than doing something when you shouldn't.

This has been studied extensively in the United States, where it has been shown that NFL, NBA and Major League Baseball referees and umpires consistently fail to make decisions when they have the potential to change the course of a game. (If you want to read more, then a book called Scorecasting by Tobias Moskowitz and L Jon Wertheim has an excellent chapter on it.)

We wanted to test this theory on Webb. So we went through every single match he has refereed over the last four seasons. There have been 177 in total. In those games, he gave a total of 24 penalties and 22 red cards. We're not quite sure what that means.

The problem, you see, is that although we know how many decisions Webb made, we don't know how many decisions he could have made, but didn't. So for the purposes of comparison, we decided to see how Webb stacks up against his Premier League peers over the same period.

We decided to look at a number of hypothetical situations where a referee might be tempted to shirk a decision.

1) Penalties against the home side

Initially we decided to break down Webb's penalties by whether he gave them to the home or away team. Clearly, given the influence of the crowd, it's braver to award a penalty to the visitors than it is to the home side. But then home teams generally perform better, so you would expect them to win more penalties.

Here's how Webb compares to all Premier League referees over the last four seasons. We've excluded one penalty that Webb gave to Brazil against Scotland at the Emirates, which technically counts as a neutral game.
Penalties given to: Webb All PL refs
Home side 65.2% (15/23) 60.2% (203/337)
Away side 34.8% (8/23) 39.8% (134/337)

2) Late penalty

Next, let's consider when Webb gives his penalties. Across the Premier League as a whole, more than twice as many penalties are given in the last 15 minutes as in the first 15 minutes. Most people would agree that it is bolder to give a penalty late in a match, given its potential to alter the result.
Penalties given in: Webb All PL refs
0-15 min 12.5% (3) 11.2%
16-30 min 12.5% (3) 14.8%
31-45 min 16.7% (4) 17.7%
46-60 min 12.5% (3) 13.6%
61-75 min 29.2% (7) 18.8%
76-90 min 16.7% (4) 23.9%

So Webb is a lot less likely to give a penalty in the last 15 minutes than the average Premier League referee. Still, this is a small sample size, and the big spike in Webb penalties between 61 and 75 minutes means that the data is inconclusive at best. So let's consider another factor: the score in the game. Giving a penalty in the last minute when the score is 0-0 is a quite different proposition to when the score is 4-0.

3) Late game-changing penalty

We took all penalties given in the last half-hour of matches and split them into two categories: Crucial and Non-Crucial. We defined a crucial penalty as a penalty that had the potential to change the result of a match. So if a side gets a penatly when they're 1-0 down, that's crucial. If they're 1-0 up when they get the penalty, it's not crucial.

First we looked at all penalties given after the 60th minute in the Premier League over the last four seasons. This is how they split.
Crucial Not crucial
53.9% (83/154) 46.1% (71/154)

Over the same period, Webb has given 11 penalties in the last half-hour. This is how they split.
Crucial Not crucial
9.1% (1/11) 90.9% (10/11)

Yep. Webb has only given one potentially result-changing penalty in the last four seasons, across all competitions.

Still, let's acknowledge the limitations of our control group. Webb's fellow referees may well carry the same prejudices, just to a lesser degree. Some may be over-cautious, some may be too interventionist. In order to make the comparison truly fair, we need to compare Webb with a referee with similar characteristics.

There's a reason we only looked at the last four seasons. In July 2010, Webb took charge of the World Cup final, the pinnacle of his career, an achievement which brought him worldwide renown and a sharply increased level of scrutiny. Before the World Cup, you might have heard of him, but you probably didn't know that much about him. After it, he instantly became the most recognisable referee in England, perhaps the world. How does the post-2010 Webb compare with the pre-2010 version?

Not well.

From 2001 to 2010, Webb refereed at virtually every level of professional football, from Champions League to League Two, from the Community Shield to the Under-17 World Cup. In that time, he awarded 75 penalties. Let's see how they compare with his post-2010 statistics.
Penalties given to: Until WC final After WC final
Home team 56.9% (41/72) 65.2%
Away team 43.1% (31/72) 34.8%

(Excludes three penalties awarded on neutral turf)
Penalties given in: Until WC final After WC final
Last 15 minutes 23.0% 16.7%
In last half an hour Until WC final After WC final
Crucial 57.6% (19/33) 9.1%
Not crucial 42.4% (14/33) 90.9%

So it seems that Webb's career can be split into two parts. Until 2010, he was less likely to give a penalty to the home team, more likely to give a penalty late in the game, and overwhelmingly more likely to give a penalty that could affect the result.

Whether Webb was a good referee who got worse, or vice versa, is too subjective a judgement. What is clear is that he has started to referee games differently since he became famous.

Let's look at red cards.

4) Red card to the home side

Webb has given 68 red cards in his career. In the Premier League, around 60 per cent of red cards go to the away team. What the data shows is that Webb is more likely to send off a visiting player than the average Premier League referee. This discrepancy has increased since the World Cup final.
Red card to: Until WC final After WC final Average PL
Home team 38.1% (16/42) 36.4% (8/22) 40.3% (85/211)
Away team 61.9% (26/42) 63.6% (14/22) 59.7% (126/211)

(Excludes four red cards awarded on neutral turf. Yes, Nigel De Jong was one of them)

5) Red card and penalty in the same incident

Of all the decisions a referee can make, this is the one that perhaps has the biggest potential impact on a game. Generally applies to professional fouls, goalkeeper fouls and handball on the line. On average, 11.4 per cent of Premier League dismissals also result in a penalty. If Webb really is as risk-averse as some claim, you would expect his ratio to be lower. So, is it?

Well, sort of.
Red card: Until WC final After WC final Average PL
With penalty 15.2% (7/46) 4.5% (1/22) 11.4% (24/211)
Without penalty 84.8% (39/46) 95.5% (21/22) 88.6% (187/211)

Only once in the last four seasons has Webb given a red card and a penalty at the same time. That was when Per Mertesacker fouled Shane Long in the 70th minute of West Brom v Arsenal in April 2013. Even then, Arsenal were winning 2-0 at the time, so it could be argued that it was not a crucial decision. Indeed, even after James Morrison converted the penalty, Arsenal went on to win 2-1.

But until 2010, it's a completely different story. Until his moment of Cape Town jubilee, Webb was actually more likely to give a penalty and a red card than the average referee.

Almost done now.

6) Early red card

You know what they say about early red cards. Ref's ruined the game, hasn't he? Ruined it as a spectacle. Ended the game as a contest. We want dangerous play to be punished, but not at the expense of an fair fight. Which is why it's an exceptionally brave referee who sends a player off in the first 15 minutes.

First of all, let's look at our control group. In the last four Premier League seasons, there have been 211 red cards. That includes both straight reds and two yellows. This is how they break down.
0-15 min 4.3% (9)
16-30 min 8.5% (18)
31-45 min 12.8% (27)
46-60 min 17.5% (37)
61-75 min 19.9% (42)
76-90 min 37.0% (78)

Unsurprisingly, the chances of seeing a red card increase as the game goes on. But you do see some players sent off early on.

So, a quiz. Howard Webb has refereed 500 matches, at all levels of the game, over 13 years. How many times do you think he's sent a player off in the first 15 minutes?

If you said none, come down to the front and collect your prize. You're right.

Howard Webb red cards (whole career)
0-15 min 0.0% (0)
16-30 min 7.4% (5)
31-45 min 17.6% (12)
46-60 min 16.2% (11)
61-75 min 23.5% (16)
76-90 min 30.9% (21)

(Excludes three red cards in extra time)

What this proves (and what it doesn't)

One thing we didn't find was any evidence of club bias. Webb has given penalties to Manchester United at Old Trafford and given penalties against United at Old Trafford. He's decided to send off Steven Gerrard and decided not to send off Steven Gerrard.

Nor does it prove that he's a bad referee. What it does show is that since 2010, he has become a lot more wary of influencing a game. He's less likely to give a penalty late on, and less likely still if there's a chance it might affect the result. He's less likely to send a home player off, less likely to award a penalty with a red card and has never, ever sent a player off in the first 15 minutes. Lee Cattermole, hope you're taking notes.

What this means is that the next time there's a big 50-50 decision to be made in a big game - a last-minute penalty, for example, or a crucial sending off - then there's a strong chance Webb will simply wave play on.[/article]

Probably could do with Binnying but I'm not fit to lace the big man's boots .
 
Interesting article. There was a time when I thought Martin Tw@tkinson was biased against us, but as time's gone on I've changed my mind about him - he's just a rubbish ref overall. Maybe Webb (who I've always thought hopelessly overrated anyway, not least in his own eyes) is in the same boat.

The only ref against whom I think there definitely was a case to answer where LFC are concerned is that poncy slaphead Elleray. When he retired somebody posted the stats on here, and they were horrifying - 31 LFC games reffed, of which we won 4 - yes, a grand total of four - drew another 4 and lost an eye-popping, jaw-dropping TWENTY-THREE, at a time when we still a top three/four side. There once was a TV programme in which someone got him to watch a recording of an infamously violent Leeds-v-Chelsea FA Cup Final from decades ago and decide how many cards of which colour he'd have shown. It was shot at his home and on the wall behind him, large as life and twice as ugly, was a ManU poster. You do the maths.
 
Let's hope the FA give him a nice break from refereeing all our big games for the rest of the season.
 
Indeed, although I thought this was mildly humourous

"Webb said: “Oh no, is everybody talking about me instead of the football?
“I hate it when that happens. What else are they saying about me?”"
 
I see he charges £4k for after dinner speaking engagements - who in their right mind would pay to hear the twat rambling on
The world's gone mad
 
Yeah. Hilarious. Written by biased scouse hating cunts, I see.

They must squeeze it inbetween fabricating articles for the Daily Mail.


Where do you get the idea it is written by scouse haters? I've never thought that of the Daily Mash. I can certainly say the political perspective in the Daily Mash couldn't be further from the Daily Mail if it tried. The Daily Mail don't do satire.
 
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