Gegengone

[Mors]

What the fuck is going on. We had those two outstanding performances away at chelski and city, but apart from that, really, under klopp, we've looked clueless. I'm not putting this directly on Klopp, but mainly a lot of the shithouse players we've got.

There's no intensity, no pressing, no real quality attacking, defensive howlers galore.

This season is going to end up being a write off really unless by some miracle some of these players start playing way above their natural level. Klopp has a right job on his hands with this squad.

 

[Rafiagra]

I've noticed that the pressing has dropped right off in the last few games. Our players think they're better than they are and don't work hard enough as a result.

 

[RedStar]

Didnt something similar happen with Rodgers, when he first arrived he was all about pressing high up the pitch and passing teams to death. After about 3 months of our players being too thick to consistently follow instructions he completely changed tactics and we rarely seemed to press teams at all.

The question is going to be whether Klopp bends his system to suit the players hes got, or if he has free reign to bin the players that cant or wont play his style of football and replace them with his own choices. If its the latter then I think we are going to get a lot worse before we get better, I cant see the likes of Benteke Sturridge Can or Coutinho ever consistently applying the sort of pressure required, pressing is only effective if everybody does it, you cant have one or two guys strolling around with their hands on their hips while the others run themselves ragged.

 

[willby]

From Gegen-Pressing to Gegen-Depressing performance in a few short weeks..

 

[Arn]

IMO we got the pre-season training wrong and we don't have the players to play the Klopp way. We also have some players that lack game intelligence. I wouldn't say that they are stupid but players like Skrtel, Sakho, Mignolet, Lovren, Benteke, Milner, Ibe and Allen acts like headless chickens in game after game.

 

[gkmacca]

There's little intelligence, little wit, in that team. On the right wing, for example, you could almost smell the fear when Clyne had the ball - he didn't want the responsibility. At one point he seemed more relieved than disappointed when the ball was taken off him. I don't like him at all.

As for Firmino, again it's his attitude that grates the most. Beardsley took a while to settle, so did Crouch, so did quite a few, but they all at least looked like it bothered them, it looked like they were really straining to show they were good enough. This guy, well, god knows what goes on in his head, but he looks in a daze.

This is a squad that has always been frail, timid and cowardly. The way they were bullied by lower division lumps in the cups, the way they disintegrated against Palace to lose the league, the way they didn't even compete against weakened Manc sides under LVG - it's been painfully apparent for some time, some years.

The team needs a spine. In every sense.

 

[My_Blood_Bleeds_Red]

Its pathetic when teams like Newcastle, Swansea and Watford simply used our tactics back against us. They out-gegenpressed, outran and outfought us.

And that's when you realize we really are a one-dimensional team with no clue and intelligence to play any other way else.

Klopp better come up with new variations of his gegenpressing. But his past record doesn't show much promise so I'm not too optimistic. The sad thing is we've been found out by 3 shit teams in less than 3 months.

We're absolutely dog poo.

 

[dantes]

That is the problem when you try to press in every game and in every training session. The teams we play don't partake in such madness, so when they play us it is very easy for them to totally outwork us on what is a one-off occasion for them. They will always have the fresher legs and an inferiority complex to make it happen.

 

[Arn]

That is the problem when you try to press in every game and in every training session. The teams we play don't partake in such madness, so when they play us it is very easy for them to totally outwork us on what is a one-off occasion for them. They will always have the fresher legs and an inferiority complex to make it happen.

The players need to do it until they learned how to press the Klopp way. I doubt that our players trained that hard in pre-season. Rodgers signed players that should fit his style of play and pressing wasn't exactly top of the list. Not many of our players have the game intelligence to press all over the pitch. If the players lack game intelligence then the pressing turns to shit because the players run around like headless chickens. We have seen that the last few games.

I would say that only Clyne, Lucas, Can, Firmino and Coutinho have good enough game intelligence to press the right way. Sturridge would probably be able to do it but he would probably get injured if he chased the ball to much.

 

[Judge Jules]

There's little intelligence, little wit, in that team. On the right wing, for example, you could almost smell the fear when Clyne had the ball - he didn't want the responsibility. At one point he seemed more relieved than disappointed when the ball was taken off him. I don't like him at all.

As for Firmino, again it's his attitude that grates the most. Beardsley took a while to settle, so did Crouch, so did quite a few, but they all at least looked like it bothered them, it looked like they were really straining to show they were good enough. This guy, well, god knows what goes on in his head, but he looks in a daze.

This is a squad that has always been frail, timid and cowardly. The way they were bullied by lower division lumps in the cups, the way they disintegrated against Palace to lose the league, the way they didn't even compete against weakened Manc sides under LVG - it's been painfully apparent for some time, some years.

The team needs a spine. In every sense.

Largely agree but would reserve my position about Clyne, who wasn't like this at his previous clubs. Players do have to accept responsibility for their own performances but I also think he's been hobbled, first by Rodgers' panicky confusion as he struggled to save his job, now by the abject inability of some around him to get their game sorted.

 

[mom]

I don't think anything has gone. It just takes time to implement fully. There will be good and bad days until the fitness and sense is there. If the players are fatigued from the step up in training, that explains a lot. If it's lack of game intelligence then all you can do is replace them or make them play the system until it just becomes second nature. Which may take a long while. Sadly.

 

[HC]

Both teams can't press so high up the pitch, it'd be like playing poker.

We faltered and got out played, I won't lose any sleep over it but I hope Klopp has as it was a supremely turgid display.

 

[dmishra]

There's little intelligence, little wit, in that team. On the right wing, for example, you could almost smell the fear when Clyne had the ball - he didn't want the responsibility. At one point he seemed more relieved than disappointed when the ball was taken off him. I don't like him at all.

As for Firmino, again it's his attitude that grates the most. Beardsley took a while to settle, so did Crouch, so did quite a few, but they all at least looked like it bothered them, it looked like they were really straining to show they were good enough. This guy, well, god knows what goes on in his head, but he looks in a daze.

This is a squad that has always been frail, timid and cowardly. The way they were bullied by lower division lumps in the cups, the way they disintegrated against Palace to lose the league, the way they didn't even compete against weakened Manc sides under LVG - it's been painfully apparent for some time, some years.

The team needs a spine. In every sense.

Yeah.

Compare them to some of the excellent players we had comprising the spine during the Houllier and Rafa years - Hyypia, Carra, Reina, Hamann, Alonso, Gary Mac.

Not just extremely intelligent players, but players who stood up to be counted when the chips were down.

Since then, we've been reliant on the likes of Skrtel and Lucas to form the spine, who're both good guys and capable of playing very well at times, but have always been low-confidence players. They shrivel up and start wilting under pressure.

As a result, our several young players over the last 5 years have had no one to learn from. Which is a pity - because the likes of Can and Henderson do seem to have a fighting spirit. With the right guidance, they could turn to be strong leaders, but there's just not anyone around.

 

[Judge Jules]

Indeed. In fairness to Rodgers, there were suggestions in his time that he recognised this and wanted to address it but that the players he wanted didn't get by the transfer committee (though one of the players concerned was said to be Ashley Williams, so we can at least thank the committee for that).

 

[dmishra]

Getting Milner in was probably part of that idea. Milner does have some leadership in that he always leads by example in his work-rate. But he's too lacking in personality and talent to be an effective leader.

Xabi for instance was not flamboyant at all, but regularly exercised authority over lesser teammates. The biggest example I can think of is the 2nd half of the CL final, where I thought he baby sat a panic stricken Traore throughout.

There's no one in the present squad who can do that. Allen, when he came, looked to have similar intelligence. But his personality is so timid that he's regressed into this empty shell of a player.

 

[Arn]

Yeah.

Compare them to some of the excellent players we had comprising the spine during the Houllier and Rafa years - Hyypia, Carra, Reina, Hamann, Alonso, Gary Mac.

Not just extremely intelligent players, but players who stood up to be counted when the chips were down.

Since then, we've been reliant on the likes of Skrtel and Lucas to form the spine, who're both good guys and capable of playing very well at times, but have always been low-confidence players. They shrivel up and start wilting under pressure.

As a result, our several young players over the last 5 years have had no one to learn from. Which is a pity - because the likes of Can and Henderson do seem to have a fighting spirit. With the right guidance, they could turn to be strong leaders, but there's just not anyone around.

Pep and Rafa build their teams in the same way. Game intelligence and winning mentality top of the list. Bayern don't have the quickest players but everyone have great game intelligence. You don't need to be quick if you have great game intelligence. Pep's Barcelona didn't had that many quick players. Ferguson built his team the same way.

Remember the song "we have the best midfield in the world". That midfield was very slow.

 

[Leo]

We didn't have the best midfield in the world.
It's just that Lucas wasn't in it.

 

[Red Bird]

Getting Milner in was probably part of that idea. Milner does have some leadership in that he always leads by example in his work-rate. But he's too lacking in personality and talent to be an effective leader.

Xabi for instance was not flamboyant at all, but regularly exercised authority over lesser teammates. The biggest example I can think of is the 2nd half of the CL final, where I thought he baby sat a panic stricken Traore throughout.

There's no one in the present squad who can do that. Allen, when he came, looked to have similar intelligence. But his personality is so timid that he's regressed into this empty shell of a player.

The problem is that we Rodgers got rid of the strong characters in the team. Reina, Agger (yeah, yeah, Mark), Gerrard, Kuijt while Carragher was mostly past it. The replacements were not only not upgrades but were far too often intimated by being at Liverpool.