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Bye Bye Kenny???????

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well, we're going round and round in circles a bit, ultimately we are going to see in the summer exactly what type of owners we have. the type of owner who gives the manager time and space to execute his long term plan knowing that rome wasn't built in a day or the type of owner who gets twitchy at the first sign of trouble. I'm hoping for the former.

If you were John Henry what conclusions would you be drawing from this season?

What would be the pros and what would be the cons?

If, based on the above, you decided to keep Kenny... what would be your expectations of next season and what evidence would you require to ensure that a repeat of this season didn't occur?
 
you have the right to boo but I don't see who it helps, it's certainly not helping the players.

it lets the players know that the core of any club 'the fans' aren't happy. true it doesn't necessarily help, but one would hope the players, managing staff would notice this and use it as a tool/incentive to improve
 
As i said the other day, the liverpool way is antiquated and no longer used. It died many years ago without people noticing. I imagine during rafas continued trouble with the board.

Indeed. Its usually a good indication that someone is struggling when the Liverpool Way argument comes out. I remember it being not the Liverpool Way to sack Benitez, definitely not the Liverpool Way to hire Mourinho, but it was the Liverpool Way to sack Hodgson.

In terms of Kenny getting another year, all it comes down to really is whether you think he can improve next year. Everyone knows this season has been a mess. Personally I think its worth seeing if he can. He was a great manager before and giving him a season to adapt seems pretty reasonable to me.
Others clearly think that he won't get any better. Fair enough. I guess we'll see what the owners think.
 
If you were John Henry what conclusions would you be drawing from this season?

What would be the pros and what would be the cons?

If, based on the above, you decided to keep Kenny... what would be your expectations of next season and what evidence would you require to ensure that a repeat of this season didn't occur?

I think the owners would tell kenny that under no circumstances can we have a repeat of this season (with regards to the league). the owners and kenny know this isn't good enough, there can be no excuses this time around.

I would also ask question WHY has the squad imploded (I have a good idea why) but there are no excuses for it, so I would ask kenny what he needs to ensure it doesn't happen again.
my expectations would be to challenge (realistically) for the top 4 till at least the end of april.
and I would definately tell kenny he only has this coming season to turn it around, that's fair and kenny would understand that.
 
I'm not expecting anything from the new manager hence the reason why I don't want one.
I think a new manager will struggle with the expectation and the limited budget. I simply cannot see a big budget in the summer if kenny is removed as the yanks don't strike me as the type of owners to dip into their own pocket.

I don't think it's about spending money. Watching the 12 men of Manchester United including referee Lee Mason beat the 10 men of QPR on Sunday, I reflected that player-for-player, Liverpool's squad is a bit better than United's. The difference is that United are better organised and motivated, and have a winning attitude.
 
It defo is about spending money. How many of our starting 11 on Saturday would get in that Man United side? Going through them in my head, if they didn't hate each other, simply on merit, you'd have Gerrard, Suarez and maybe Skrtel.
 
I don't think it's about spending money. Watching the 12 men of Manchester United including referee Lee Mason beat the 10 men of QPR on Sunday, I reflected that player-for-player, Liverpool's squad is a bit better than United's. The difference is that United are better organised and motivated, and have a winning attitude.
You're kidding right?
 
Man U have been the richest club in the country for years. The semi finals of the CL are being played between 4 of the top 7 wealthiest clubs in the world. The only reason Citeh have challenged this year is massive investment. Arsenal are third - they've managed to triple their match day revenues recently. Dalglish, whether you think he's here for the love of it or not is the 5th highest paid football manager on the planet. It's all about money. It's hardly about anything else. We're underperforming if we're not in the last stages of the CL. We are in the top 10 wealthiest clubs, we certainly pay last 16 wages, it's not living in the past or having high expectations for us to expect to be in the CL every year - the money says we should be. If we win it or get to a final we're punching above our weight - but not like Porto - it's a very good year but to be expected - but if we're out of it altogether, it's a failure. We were bottom half of the table when Dalglish found us and maybe his first few months gave us too high an expectation for this year, but CL footy is certainly the minimum target for LFC at the start of a season these days. He will have to achieve that much next season.
 
We actually have an higher average attendance this season then for quite a few years. Even higher than Rafas best league season in 08/09.

The King gets the crowd coming to the matches, although the atmosphere have been so so for a while. The Everton game was different mind.
 
I don't think it's about spending money. Watching the 12 men of Manchester United including referee Lee Mason beat the 10 men of QPR on Sunday, I reflected that player-for-player, Liverpool's squad is a bit better than United's. The difference is that United are better organised and motivated, and have a winning attitude.

I agree. Aside from Dalglish having wasted too much money, the squad is in much better shape than when he took over. It's possible we'd only need to make two or three signings this summer to make a massive improvement to our results next season. What Dalglish has done well is to use some foresight. When previous managers signed the likes of Konchesky, Dossena, Poulsen, Voronin, Jovanovic, they were just an utter waste of time. And wasting time, for me, is far more damaging than wasting money. Spending time is what wins titles, not spending money. Just look at Man Utd and Man City. So those turds of footballers we signed under Benitez and Hodgson did nothing but stagnate the squad and leave us with a fuck load of work to do in each successive summer.

Dalglish has at least invested in decentish and young players that don't necessarily have to be sold off in the summer. And he's also developed a lot of our own younger players which is nice. So there is not much work to be done when you think about it. All of our players will largely be here for the next few years developing together and improving. With some cup wins they might get a winning attitude too, although I doubt it. But at least we have the option now of keeping a good squad together and letting them get used to each other and become a cohesive well organised team. This is the best way to try and win the title, which should be our aim.

If we start again with a new manager and new players, that might get us back into fourth spot, but it ain't gonna get us to play as consistently as the scum.
 
I agree. Aside from Dalglish having wasted too much money, the squad is in much better shape than when he took over. It's possible we'd only need to make two or three signings this summer to make a massive improvement to our results next season. What Dalglish has done well is to use some foresight. When previous managers signed the likes of Konchesky, Dossena, Poulsen, Voronin, Jovanovic, they were just an utter waste of time. And wasting time, for me, is far more damaging than wasting money. Spending time is what wins titles, not spending money. Just look at Man Utd and Man City. So those turds of footballers we signed under Benitez and Hodgson did nothing but stagnate the squad and leave us with a fuck load of work to do in each successive summer.

Dalglish has at least invested in decentish and young players that don't necessarily have to be sold off in the summer. And he's also developed a lot of our own younger players which is nice. So there is not much work to be done when you think about it. All of our players will largely be here for the next few years developing together and improving. With some cup wins they might get a winning attitude too, although I doubt it. But at least we have the option now of keeping a good squad together and letting them get used to each other and become a cohesive well organised team. This is the best way to try and win the title, which should be our aim.

If we start again with a new manager and new players, that might get us back into fourth spot, but it ain't gonna get us to play as consistently as the scum.
Spot on Dantes (but you knew this)
 
We actually have an higher average attendance this season then for quite a few years. Even higher than Rafas best league season in 08/09.

The King gets the crowd coming to the matches, although the atmosphere have been so so for a while. The Everton game was different mind.

To be fair, the lizards sorted this by selling all the tickets at once.
 
I think the owners would tell kenny that under no circumstances can we have a repeat of this season (with regards to the league). the owners and kenny know this isn't good enough, there can be no excuses this time around.

I would also ask question WHY has the squad imploded (I have a good idea why) but there are no excuses for it, so I would ask kenny what he needs to ensure it doesn't happen again.
my expectations would be to challenge (realistically) for the top 4 till at least the end of april.
and I would definately tell kenny he only has this coming season to turn it around, that's fair and kenny would understand that.

You've not really fully answered the questions I put forward though. You don't have to, of course, but if you're going to go to the trouble of answering my post...

So again, if you were to put yourself in the shoes of the owners, what conclusions do you end up with at the end of the season? Positives? Negatives? How is the "long-term view" working out? Are we progressing enough? At all?

Also, as owner, it's surely not enough to say "don't do it again". You need to be sure that you understand a) exactly where you're at and b) how to recognize that things are either working or not. How do you assess whether Kenny is on the right path?
 
You've not really fully answered the questions I put forward though. You don't have to, of course, but if you're going to go to the trouble of answering my post...

So again, if you were to put yourself in the shoes of the owners, what conclusions do you end up with at the end of the season? Positives? Negatives? How is the "long-term view" working out? Are we progressing enough? At all?

Also, as owner, it's surely not enough to say "don't do it again". You need to be sure that you understand a) exactly where you're at and b) how to recognize that things are either working or not. How do you assess whether Kenny is on the right path?

if I were the owners there is no way other to look at the season as a disaster. in the short term none of the targets set have been met. so I would have to decide to continue with the current mananger based on nothing but blind faith because there are no guarantees whatsoever that mistakes made this season wont be repeated next season.

I would be looking at the money spent asking how is it even possible to spend more money than the previous season and go backwards. but with that said I would be thinking is it worth throwing away the relationship built up with the manager over the past year and also if I want to spend the 10+ m it would cost to get rid of the manager and his playing staff.

the gap between our position and 4th is 15 points (I think) that is a LOT of ground to make up but the season were filled with anomalies that you hope wouldn't be repeated. the share aount of times we've hit the post, suarez unavailable for 8 games, etc. also the younger players would have had a year to get used to liverpool and the likes of downing aren't going to go through another season of zero assists in the league. maybe it's reaching but I would be trying to find positives where I could get them and wouldn't view things in black and white.

I'm still not really answering your question but it's a difficult question to answer because the owners may have patience or may be th type that no excuse will wash after handing over 100m to be spent as the management staff saw fit.
 
I was just curious as you have been pretty adamant in your posts that getting rid of Kenny is the sign of a know nothing fan with no patience.

It'd be interesting to hear more than "I don't want us to turn into Newcastle" or "it goes against the Liverpool Way" or "it's Kenny FFS".

If I was in the owners position, I'd need to be convinced that the building blocks are in place, this season can largely be explained away as regrettable teething problems and that shrewd investment come the summer will see a very dramatic improvement next season. I'm not getting that from your post though.
 
I was just curious as you have been pretty adamant in your posts that getting rid of Kenny is the sign of a know nothing fan with no patience.

It'd be interesting to hear more than "I don't want us to turn into Newcastle" or "it goes against the Liverpool Way" or "it's Kenny FFS".

If I was in the owners position, I'd need to be convinced that the building blocks are in place, this season can largely be explained away as regrettable teething problems and that shrewd investment come the summer will see a very dramatic improvement next season. I'm not getting that from your post though.

my posts have been a little over zealous as it wouldn't exactly be knee jerk to sack kenny after such a run.
what I will say though is surely as supporters we should 'support'? the time to get behind the team and manager is when things are going tits up, anyone cannot support when you are sweeping all before you.
didn't shankly say (paraphasing) 'if you can't support us when we lose then don't bother supporting us when we win'?

and I'll say again if the board aren't prepared to show patience then why should I the next time the team starts fucking up?
 
Don't think Shankly ever said that you know Neil. Agree with the sentiment though
 
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