You said he was 'absolutely dominating' in the side that finished second. We finished 2nd in 2009.
Benitez to be Newcastle Manager..
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You said he was 'absolutely dominating' in the side that finished second. We finished 2nd in 2009.
EnglandLeagueFA CupLeague CupEuropeTotal
1999–2000 Liverpool Premier League 38 2 2 0 2 0 — 42 2
2000–01 35 3 6 0 6 1 11 0 58 4
2001–02 37 3 2 0 1 0 16 2 56 5
2002–03 36 3 3 0 4 0 12 2 55 5
2003–04 38 4 4 0 1 0 8 1 51 5
2004–05 32 2 1 0 1 0 15 1 49 3
2005–06 36 1 6 1 1 0 14 0 57 2
2006–07 23 2 0 0 1 1 5 0 29 3
2007–08 27 1 4 1 0 0 13 2 44 4
2008–09 16 1 1 0 2 1 0 0 19 2
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sami_Hyypiä
David Ginola to sue Gerard Houllier over book remarks
By Jimmy Smallwood BBC Sport
Houllier managed the French national team between 1992-93, as well as Liverpool and Aston Villa in England.
He is alleged to have referred to Ginola in offensive terms in a new book, Coaches' Secrets.
"David is absolutely incensed," a spokesman for Ginola told the BBC. "Houllier should stop talking like this. Stop singling David out."
“We got stabbed in the back... Ginola goes and sends in a huge 60-metre cross instead of hanging on to the ball. That allowed Bulgaria to go and hit us on the counter”
Gerard Houllier speaking in 1993
The pair have had an acrimonious relationship for many years, with Houllier often criticising Ginola's role in France's failed bid to qualify for the 1994 Fifa World Cup.
In November 1993, the home side only required a draw in their final World Cup qualifier against Bulgaria to reach the finals and were level at 1-1 going into the final minutes.
But Emil Kostadinov's last-gasp winner in Paris, after substitute Ginola misplaced a cross, sent Les Bleus crashing out of the competition.
In 2000, Ginola, who played 17 times for his country, complained in his autobiography : "Houllier blamed me for 'murdering' France's bid to qualify for the 1994 World Cup finals.
"My 'crime' was to over-hit a cross aimed for Eric Cantona during our last qualifying match against Bulgaria in Paris."
Houllier later resigned and recalled : "The adventure is over all too soon. With only 30 seconds remaining we were there but we got stabbed in the back and at the worst possible time.
"The referee still had his whistle to his mouth when Ginola won that free-kick near the corner flag, but then he goes and sends in a huge 60-metre cross instead of hanging on to the ball. That allowed Bulgaria to go and hit us on the counter."
In contributing to a new book on coaching , Houllier, 64, again refers to the 1993 qualifying failure - and Ginola alleges that disparaging remarks and an offensive term in the publication have left him with little choice but to pursue legal action.
Ginola's representatives told the BBC: "To use those words, and to have them in a book that is meant to sell and to sell heavily, this was a very heavy quote."
Florian Sanchez, editor of the book, which was written by journalists David Riolo and Christoph Paillet and published in France on 20 October, told the BBC: "For legal reasons I cannot comment on the case."
However, Sanchez confirmed that Houllier's comments regarding Ginola do concern the winger's performance against Bulgaria - and also his alleged role in a split in the French squad between players from Paris Saint-Germain and Marseille. Ginola played for PSG at the time.
Sanchez added: "Two years ago, Houllier criticised Ginola on French television. David showed him the yellow card then, and warned him not to continue. Now he is showing him the red."
The first court date, which Ginola is not expected to attend, is scheduled for 12 December in Toulon.
By Jimmy Smallwood BBC Sport
Houllier managed the French national team between 1992-93, as well as Liverpool and Aston Villa in England.
He is alleged to have referred to Ginola in offensive terms in a new book, Coaches' Secrets.
"David is absolutely incensed," a spokesman for Ginola told the BBC. "Houllier should stop talking like this. Stop singling David out."
“We got stabbed in the back... Ginola goes and sends in a huge 60-metre cross instead of hanging on to the ball. That allowed Bulgaria to go and hit us on the counter”
Gerard Houllier speaking in 1993
The pair have had an acrimonious relationship for many years, with Houllier often criticising Ginola's role in France's failed bid to qualify for the 1994 Fifa World Cup.
In November 1993, the home side only required a draw in their final World Cup qualifier against Bulgaria to reach the finals and were level at 1-1 going into the final minutes.
But Emil Kostadinov's last-gasp winner in Paris, after substitute Ginola misplaced a cross, sent Les Bleus crashing out of the competition.
In 2000, Ginola, who played 17 times for his country, complained in his autobiography : "Houllier blamed me for 'murdering' France's bid to qualify for the 1994 World Cup finals.
"My 'crime' was to over-hit a cross aimed for Eric Cantona during our last qualifying match against Bulgaria in Paris."
Houllier later resigned and recalled : "The adventure is over all too soon. With only 30 seconds remaining we were there but we got stabbed in the back and at the worst possible time.
"The referee still had his whistle to his mouth when Ginola won that free-kick near the corner flag, but then he goes and sends in a huge 60-metre cross instead of hanging on to the ball. That allowed Bulgaria to go and hit us on the counter."
In contributing to a new book on coaching , Houllier, 64, again refers to the 1993 qualifying failure - and Ginola alleges that disparaging remarks and an offensive term in the publication have left him with little choice but to pursue legal action.
Ginola's representatives told the BBC: "To use those words, and to have them in a book that is meant to sell and to sell heavily, this was a very heavy quote."
Florian Sanchez, editor of the book, which was written by journalists David Riolo and Christoph Paillet and published in France on 20 October, told the BBC: "For legal reasons I cannot comment on the case."
However, Sanchez confirmed that Houllier's comments regarding Ginola do concern the winger's performance against Bulgaria - and also his alleged role in a split in the French squad between players from Paris Saint-Germain and Marseille. Ginola played for PSG at the time.
Sanchez added: "Two years ago, Houllier criticised Ginola on French television. David showed him the yellow card then, and warned him not to continue. Now he is showing him the red."
The first court date, which Ginola is not expected to attend, is scheduled for 12 December in Toulon.
Was he, though? He wasn't first choice after the 05/06 season. I'd suggest his leaving and the bad final season is largely a coincidence.
He was past his best in 2004, but still very, very, good.
I don't deny that Hamann continued to contribute well for a couple of seasons. But then he left, and never played at the top level again. That's the point. Personally I'd rather have Lucas for maybe 10 years than Hamann for 2, and that's without even mentioning the £17m we got for Masherano in 2010.
Oh - he played 19 games that year (16 in the league). My bad -
Modo - a question ... are you trying to do to Ged what you hate people doing to Rafa? Just wondering ...
Let's be honest, those who win leagues should be on that flag ... that's what Liverpool is about (or at least we thought so until the last 20+ years!).
... so if you're putting Rafa in based on Istanbul etc, shouldn't Ged be in there based on the 'cup treble'?
... so if you're putting Rafa in based on Istanbul etc, shouldn't Ged be in there based on the 'cup treble'?
but that doesn't mean he left a shit side does it? At least he left a spine, which regardless of the longterm purchases of Lucas, Skrtel and Agger, it's what Rafa built on for a good few years. His defense was pretty much Finnan/Carra/Hyypia/Riise. It's only really when he started to break that up that we went tits up. In the season we came second, Hyypia played some blinders, including the 4-1 drubbing of United. Agger was injured for most of that season, and Arbeloa had his injuries too. After that season we looked a pale shadow of our former selves defensively and we haven't really recovered fully since. The defense left now isn't a patch on the one he took over in 2004/2005, or the one he was still using in 2007.
What are we left with now really from Rafa's legacy in that respect? A dodgy fullback, one ever present defender and a keeper you could argue is also past his best - still more than capable and probably on a par with Hyypia and Hamann at same stage of their careers.
So, in conclusion, Benitez deserves to be in that flag and he's a better manager than Houllier ever was.
Thank you Peter for your wonderful input. You owned this thread and proved what I knew all along.
*smug face*
You aren't half a fucking bellend sometimes..
I'm trying to counter it.
You are to Ged as Ross is to Rafa ... just saying.
Trying to counter what? Do you think everyone liked Benitez?
Neither were particularly great man managers, but I'd say Houllier was a lot more stubborn. Both could be quite vindictive when they were finished with a player.
and Lucas and a bunch of kids.
Lucas isn't better than Hamann and the bunch of kids have done nothing to get carried away about upto now. Two years ago you were applauding him for leaving us Pacheco, go figure.
No I don't think everyone liked Benitez, but I think he was a bit more professional than Houlllier was.
I must have mentioned Suso as well...
Probably, but given the amount he was allowed to invest in youth talent, I'd say the minimum expectation would be that a few years down the line, we have half a dozen players that "might" have a future here.
I think you're really stretching things to try and suggest our poor season in 2010 was down to Ged's defence falling apart. It's just not true. Our main defenders from 2006-10 were Carragher, Arbeloa, Agger and Skrtel, plus some very good (but declining) contributions from Hyypia. IMO the main component of a sound defence is managerial organisation rather than the actual personnel: look at last season compared to this, for example. Agger and Skrtel were both being touted for £20m+ moves last summer, now nobody would touch them for much more than £10m. It's a nonsense. They're good solid defenders who look great in a well organised defence, like most defenders. Some are exceptionally good, like Hyypia, and Carragher for a few years, but not most.
Glad we're agreed then, that Ged bought the exceptionally good Hyppia, while Rafa left us with two good solid defenders no one wants, unless you believe half cocked ego rubbing rumours posted by our resident Dane.
Well Houllier was very professional indeed in his early years. He professionalised the whole club. To be fair to both we shouldn't compare the early years of one with the later years of the other, or vice versa. There's both a Good Ged and Bad Ged and a Good Rafa and Bad Rafa. The early years of both strike me as pretty similar in terms of standards.
Course they are, the parallels are indeed uncanny.
As I said, and probably the crux of the original debate, they both deserve to be considered highly for contributing to putting us back on the map and winning silverware for us. That's no small feat. Both were promising and delivered significantly over their initial tenures. Let's just remember them like that, I don't get the need to dismiss Houllier so heavily, particularly when it's coming (largely) from two of the forum's more outspoken Rafa defenders. And yeah I know I'm as guilty as anyone for ridiculing Rafa, but the history rewriting and excuse making is nauseating.
So when a (now) 9 year old comes through in say, 6 or 7 years, shall we attribute that to Rafa aswell?
he deserves a foot note at least...
I'm sure someone decided way back when that we should have a youth set up and youth teams. You do the math and work out who gets how much.
Just like we thank Roy Evans and Graeme Souness for McManaman, Fowler, Owen etc ... Oh
You've got to give credit for building the foundation, but those players aren't here because of Rafa, just like Gerrard wasn't here because of Ged.
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