Hughes - First Impressions

[Judge Jules]

Jürgen Klopp himself confirmed that we tried to get Bellingham.

Next.

 

[moron]

Jürgen Klopp himself confirmed that we tried to get Bellingham.

Next.

We all know Jurgen was a bullshitter as well. When they meant trying to get - it probably just means "Would you like to join us ?" - to which Jude replied "Nah - I want to join Real Madrid". Also Jude does not strike me as someone who would have come to us such is his ego - I find him a bit too much, and am looking forward to his downfall.

 

[Judge Jules]

Shame, that - he speaks very highly of you.

 

[StevieM]

@Cleric - just want to stick up for you against deluded Top Top Reds. Response to @Frogfish should be simple, we were never in for Bellendingham, mainly because he was always going to Real. But in the summer before we alrealy knew that the trio of Ox, Keita and Milner were going to leave. Thats 3 midfielders we would have to attempt to replace with what we know was a budget of 100M GBP. So again people like @Frogfish and @StevieM believed all the FSG bollocks and feel they have to say that these bids were real from FSG and they meant it. Both these guys have a thing JH's wife Linda and by extension FSG lies.

I’m sure everyone appreciates you soiling yourself in public again, but I have to say… it’s not a pretty sight.

Maybe some sort of nappy might constrain your shite more from getting out?

 

[moron]

I’m sure everyone appreciates you soiling yourself in public again, but I have to say… it’s not a pretty sight.

Maybe some sort of nappy might constrain your shite more from getting out?

I cannot help you when you believe the false signing rumours and false attempts at signing.

 

[Cleric]

So… should we instead go for mediocre players with a lower profile because they’re “easier to sign”?

If we don't get our top target, Tchouameni, Caceido etc then we need to have a plan b, or leave ourselves short.

Whilst I agree on not buying players that don't improve us, we also need a big enough squad to compete, so sometimes you need to sign someone. It's a balancing act which we've not always got right. We ended up buying Endo as a stop gap, who is now effectively surplus, wasting wages that mightve been better spent on getting our top target through the door.

We've lost Thiago, Matip off the wage bill, so there should be some headroom. I'm all for FSG being pragmatic and sensible but even Klopp said he wanted them to take more risks. For years, we've been a couple of players short of being really competitive, which is frustrating, particularly when even the smaller PL clubs seem more willing to splash the cash than us recently.

And this is my opinion as a Red watching every game for decades. I don't need to be called 'lad' or told to give my head a wobble.

 

[doctor_mac]

If we don't get our top target, Tchouameni, Caceido etc then we need to have a plan b, or leave ourselves short.

Whilst I agree on not buying players that don't improve us, we also need a big enough squad to compete, so sometimes you need to sign someone. It's a balancing act which we've not always got right. We ended up buying Endo as a stop gap, who is now effectively surplus, wasting wages that mightve been better spent on getting our top target through the door.

We've lost Thiago, Matip off the wage bill, so there should be some headroom. I'm all for FSG being pragmatic and sensible but even Klopp said he wanted them to take more risks. For years, we've been a couple of players short of being really competitive, which is frustrating, particularly when even the smaller PL clubs seem more willing to splash the cash than us recently.

And this is my opinion as a Red watching every game for decades. I don't need to be called 'lad' or told to give my head a wobble.

Lets see how surplus Endo is after 30 games rather than 3. He'll play plenty, even if it is clear already that Slot wants a more athletic midfielder. We need a squad to compete on all fronts.

 

[Cleric]

Lets see how surplus Endo is after 30 games rather than 3. He'll play plenty, even if it is clear already that Slot wants a more athletic midfielder. We need a squad to compete on all fronts.

Maybe surplus is the wrong word, I'd say he's a bad fit. Imo he never had the quality to succeed here. He'll get games but that could well cost us. I've no idea how good Andre is bit we were in for him before and for £21m less £12m for Endo, it seems a risk worth taking.

 

[binomial]

Imo he never had the quality to succeed here

He’s already succeeded. Helped a team finish 5th 2 seasons ago finish 3rd.

You have fans trying to justify Caicedo or Enzo’s 100m fee because Chelsea went from 11th to 6th…..but wont afford the same to someone who cost 16m and had a better season.

 

[737Max]

Maybe surplus is the wrong word, I'd say he's a bad fit. Imo he never had the quality to succeed here. He'll get games but that could well cost us. I've no idea how good Andre is bit we were in for him before and for £21m less £12m for Endo, it seems a risk worth taking.

It's clear that under Slot he wants a different type of No.6 rather than a destroyer who just breaks up ply. We were never going to go back in for Andre and it would have been a waste of money

 

[moron]

Maybe surplus is the wrong word, I'd say he's a bad fit. Imo he never had the quality to succeed here. He'll get games but that could well cost us. I've no idea how good Andre is bit we were in for him before and for £21m less £12m for Endo, it seems a risk worth taking.

I would recommend you watch his performance against Arsenal at home, City home/away - his performance in one of the City games had Pep take KDB off.

 

[doctor_mac]

Maybe surplus is the wrong word, I'd say he's a bad fit. Imo he never had the quality to succeed here. He'll get games but that could well cost us. I've no idea how good Andre is bit we were in for him before and for £21m less £12m for Endo, it seems a risk worth taking.

I think Endo has been excellent. His stats for last season demonstrate he did a great job. He's never going to be striding around the pitch, but he's an excellent passer and great at shielding the back 4.

 

[Judge Jules]

I cannot help you when you believe the false signing rumours and false attempts at signing.

You're the nearest thing I've ever seen to that notorious newspaper headline from decades ago: "Fog over the Channel - Continent isolated".

 

[bluebell]

First Salah and now VVD, no one from the club seemed to have contacted either. Hughes, get off you lazy hairy ass and get these contract sorted

 

[localny]

I'd imagine there's some negotiating going on here, by NOT contacting. The club can't be seen to be too keen either.

 

[StevieM]

If we don't get our top target, Tchouameni, Caceido etc then we need to have a plan b, or leave ourselves short.

Whilst I agree on not buying players that don't improve us, we also need a big enough squad to compete, so sometimes you need to sign someone. It's a balancing act which we've not always got right. We ended up buying Endo as a stop gap, who is now effectively surplus, wasting wages that mightve been better spent on getting our top target through the door.

We've lost Thiago, Matip off the wage bill, so there should be some headroom. I'm all for FSG being pragmatic and sensible but even Klopp said he wanted them to take more risks. For years, we've been a couple of players short of being really competitive, which is frustrating, particularly when even the smaller PL clubs seem more willing to splash the cash than us recently.

And this is my opinion as a Red watching every game for decades. I don't need to be called 'lad' or told to give my head a wobble.

Thing is though buying a player isn’t necessarily the answer either.

While watching every game for decades, you’ll no doubt have become acutely aware of how things worked out when we failed to secure or targets and moved on to secondary and third targets - they’ve tended to be not that good.

Moron’s off on cloud cuckoo land believing in fairly tales about pretend bids - be more sensible.

Arsenal have gone down the route of stuffing their squad with players that are good, but maybe not quite good enough - Sterling, Trossard, Jorginho, Merino, etc - it’s won them nothing yet.

We have got a squad that can compete on all fronts, but if we’re going to take on City, we need every player to be absolute to be bang on, so I’m ok with targeting elite talent and being cautious - it’s just patience doesn’t seem to suit everyone.

 

[moron]

Thing is though buying a player isn’t necessarily the answer either.

While watching every game for decades, you’ll no doubt have become acutely aware of how things worked out when we failed to secure or targets and moved on to secondary and third targets - they’ve tended to be not that good.

Moron’s off on cloud cuckoo land believing in fairly tales about pretend bids - be more sensible.

Arsenal have gone down the route of stuffing their squad with players that are good, but maybe not quite good enough - Sterling, Trossard, Jorginho, Merino, etc - it’s won them nothing yet.

We have got a squad that can compete on all fronts, but if we’re going to take on City, we need every player to be absolute to be bang on, so I’m ok with targeting elite talent and being cautious - it’s just patience doesn’t seem to suit everyone.

This is where you are wrong - everyone knows that neither Salah or Mane were first targets for Klopp, and they turned out well. The assumption that we have just one target that can be the only person in the world to do the job is ....cloud cukkoo stuff. In our case we are taking a huge risk, but I also think the bigger issue is - that the potential secondary targets are out not at the valuation we hold them to be. That I can understand.

For the record - I actually like the FSG model of minimum investment maximum return - I think its brilliant actually, and also credit them to buy expensive players that can truly transform us - and there have been two instances of that with VVD and Alisson. What I don't like about them is not buying enough cover so if we get injuries etc. we just don't have enough to maintain any consistency. I like Endo - but I think he is the type of player that needs games to find his rhythm.

Right now I am kind of relaxed as from what I can see - Slot is implementing a collective defending ethos and is not leaving the defence to fend for itself.

 

[StevieM]

This is where you are wrong - everyone knows that neither Salah or Mane were first targets for Klopp, and they turned out well. The assumption that we have just one target that can be the only person in the world to do the job is ....cloud cukkoo stuff. In our case we are taking a huge risk, but I also think the bigger issue is - that the potential secondary targets are out not at the valuation we hold them to be. That I can understand.

For the record - I actually like the FSG model of minimum investment maximum return - I think its brilliant actually, and also credit them to buy expensive players that can truly transform us - and there have been two instances of that with VVD and Alisson. What I don't like about them is not buying enough cover so if we get injuries etc. we just don't have enough to maintain any consistency. I like Endo - but I think he is the type of player that needs games to find his rhythm.

Right now I am kind of relaxed as from what I can see - Slot is implementing a collective defending ethos and is not leaving the defence to fend for itself.

It’s not really difficult to follow… Klopp came in and said - “this is who I like” and the data guys went “nah… these are better if that’s what you’re looking for” and Klopp went “cool”… so we went and fucking signed them and they were great.

Fast forward to now and Slots gone “I’d like a DM that can play like this…” and the data guts will have gone… “well Zubi is your guy” so we’re tried to sign him and he’s changed his mind at the last minute.

We’ve likely had a look at who else is AVAILABLE and all decided “yeah… nah… let’s stick with Gravy for now!!”

Are we likely to have other targets…. Yes!!!

Were they available without us paying waaaay too much… probably not!!!

Is it the end of the world as we know it… No!!!

Will we likely sign someone else at some point… Yes!!!!!

It’s annoying… like about as annoying as when you approach a green light and it turns red - that level of annoying (although now I think of it, you’re probably the one person who would likely go on Facebook complaining about how the traffic light has ruined your life)!!!

 

[moron]

It’s not really difficult to follow… Klopp came in and said - “this is who I like” and the data guys went “nah… these are better if that’s what you’re looking for” and Klopp went “cool”… so we went and fucking signed them and they were great.

Fast forward to now and Slots gone “I’d like a DM that can play like this…” and the data guts will have gone… “well Zubi is your guy” so we’re tried to sign him and he’s changed his mind at the last minute.

We’ve likely had a look at who else is AVAILABLE and all decided “yeah… nah… let’s stick with Gravy for now!!”

Are we likely to have other targets…. Yes!!!

Were they available without us paying waaaay too much… probably not!!!

Is it the end of the world as we know it… No!!!

Will we likely sign someone else at some point… Yes!!!!!

It’s annoying… like about as annoying as when you approach a green light and it turns red - that level of annoying (although now I think of it, you’re probably the one person who would likely go on Facebook complaining about how the traffic light has ruined your life)!!!

Ok Mr. FSG !!! - thanks for the update.

 

[Squiggles]

If we don't get our top target, Tchouameni, Caceido etc then we need to have a plan b, or leave ourselves short.

Whilst I agree on not buying players that don't improve us, we also need a big enough squad to compete, so sometimes you need to sign someone. It's a balancing act which we've not always got right. We ended up buying Endo as a stop gap, who is now effectively surplus, wasting wages that mightve been better spent on getting our top target through the door.

We've lost Thiago, Matip off the wage bill, so there should be some headroom. I'm all for FSG being pragmatic and sensible but even Klopp said he wanted them to take more risks. For years, we've been a couple of players short of being really competitive, which is frustrating, particularly when even the smaller PL clubs seem more willing to splash the cash than us recently.

And this is my opinion as a Red watching every game for decades. I don't need to be called 'lad' or told to give my head a wobble.

For me, it’s not something you can have strict rules about. It really depends on the quality and fit of the Plan B.

Take Virgil, for example. I was saying we should move on from him after the issues with Southampton, but waiting for him ended up being one of the best decisions we’ve made in recent years. On the other hand, Mane was a Plan B to Götze, and Salah to Brandt..

It's shown that sometimes Plan B works out just as well, or even better, but other times Plan A really makes the difference. It has to be judged on a case-by-case basis, and we've done a pretty good job of getting it right. Honestly, the club has earned some trust when it comes to recruitment, especially when Edwards is around the scene.

 

[Beamrider]

I think it will be interesting to see what we do in January. If it is like the VVD situation and only Zubi will do, will we go back in for him? Personally I wouldn't. If he's tied to his club, or the region or whatever, then we're basically in the same position Chelsea were in when they tried to sign Gerrard from us (yes I know there was other stuff going on there). Better to move on.
With VVD, we knew he wanted to join us, so it was just a matter of smoothing things over with Southampton. With Zubi, we still need to persuade both him and his club (unless we exercise the release clause).
If we won't go back for him, we have 4 months to find an alternative and/or to turn Gravenberch into the player we want in that position. So far so good for Gravenberch. It's only a small sample size but he's been so impressive as to suggest that he might be an excellent long-term fit.

 

[Judge Jules]

Agree about Zubimendi and, if Gravenberch keeps his current form up until January, I'd concentrate on strengthening elsewhere anyway.

 

[Mystic]

I find the whole twist on the narrative around Endo really bizarre, and honestly it shows how much certain fans make their decisions based on what twitter is saying as opposed to using their own eyes.

At the beginning of last season, we were all surprised and praising him for how progressive his passing and general play was, and right we were, he was far more of a player than the one dimensional destroyer we were expecting. Now ever since Slots come in and it's clear he wants to strengthen this position, which is fair enough, some of you are acting like all Endos ever done is gone around kicking people and getting a nose bleed everytime he looks at the oppositions goal, is your memory that short?

Now I'm not saying he should be starting for us, absolutely we want a higher calibre player in that position, although personally I'm very relaxed with Gravenberch there, however I'm not going to accept this narrative that Endos some kind of Japanese Jay Spearing. He's clearly a very competent player who helped us a great deal last season, and can again this season as a great squad player. Seeing as we aren't going to sign anyone in that position, he knows our system, and clearly he can play, it makes zero sense to sell him now, show him some respect.

 

[Beamrider]

I find the whole twist on the narrative around Endo really bizarre, and honestly it shows how much certain fans make their decisions based on what twitter is saying as opposed to using their own eyes.

At the beginning of last season, we were all surprised and praising him for how progressive his passing and general play was, and right we were, he was far more of a player than the one dimensional destroyer we were expecting. Now ever since Slots come in and it's clear he wants to strengthen this position, which is fair enough, some of you are acting like all Endos ever done is gone around kicking people and getting a nose bleed everytime he looks at the oppositions goal, is your memory that short?

Now I'm not saying he should be starting for us, absolutely we want a higher calibre player in that position, although personally I'm very relaxed with Gravenberch there, however I'm not going to accept this narrative that Endos some kind of Japanese Jay Spearing. He's clearly a very competent player who helped us a great deal last season, and can again this season as a great squad player. Seeing as we aren't going to sign anyone in that position, he knows our system, and clearly he can play, it makes zero sense to sell him now, show him some respect.

Totally agree. I think Endo is better at the defensive stuff and a better "player: than he gets credit for. He's also a handy player to have in the box at set-pieces. Gravenberch is better at "playing" and good (much better than I thought) at the defensive stuff. There will be games when either will do the job, and games where we need to tilt more towards either defensive or footballing attributes. Ideally, we keep them both fit and can chop and change when needed.
I think we should be looking to rotate Endo in to the team for some of the games when we'd be indifferent between the two so that he is match-fit for when we come up against teams who will fight harder in the middle, where his tenacity will give us more of a benefit.

 

[keniget]

I was gonna say the same thing. Endo proved he can be quite a slick passer. His first instinct is to pass forward and he also doesn't dawdle on the ball, he's quick to release. Much better than anyone expected.

That said, I can see why Slot / we wanted an upgrade. He's quite a static player and his technical qualities, whilst good, are not elite.

 

[StevieM]

I find the whole twist on the narrative around Endo really bizarre, and honestly it shows how much certain fans make their decisions based on what twitter is saying as opposed to using their own eyes.

At the beginning of last season, we were all surprised and praising him for how progressive his passing and general play was, and right we were, he was far more of a player than the one dimensional destroyer we were expecting. Now ever since Slots come in and it's clear he wants to strengthen this position, which is fair enough, some of you are acting like all Endos ever done is gone around kicking people and getting a nose bleed everytime he looks at the oppositions goal, is your memory that short?

Now I'm not saying he should be starting for us, absolutely we want a higher calibre player in that position, although personally I'm very relaxed with Gravenberch there, however I'm not going to accept this narrative that Endos some kind of Japanese Jay Spearing. He's clearly a very competent player who helped us a great deal last season, and can again this season as a great squad player. Seeing as we aren't going to sign anyone in that position, he knows our system, and clearly he can play, it makes zero sense to sell him now, show him some respect.

That’s the problem - he is a good squad player and a useful addition - he did play well last year and were rightly in no great rush to sell him unless we sign someone else or get a great offer.

Trouble is we have a section of the fanbase who are a bit rabid when it comes to transfers and they’d do practically anything for that new player hit - pretending a player who was good last season was shit is one of the ways they convince themselves it’s a fucking disaster not to sign loads of new players.

 

[Squiggles]

Endo is more than fine for this year. We're yet to see him fully under Slot yet, but I wouldn't anticipate any major issue.

The key decision for me is whether Bajectic has enough to replace Endo in a years time or whether we need a new addition. Baj is more of the profile that Slot clearly prefers, but he would have to re-prove himself as a top level player and also in the deeper positions whilst on loan and during our pre-season. We need more time to assess options than by the January market. There are valid arguments to disagree, but I believe Bajectic has shown enough potential for the club not to block his progress with a new 6, on the basis that Grav keeps proving himself.

We'll know far more by next summer and be better placed to react. The issue is we may well be reacting to multiple significant outgoings unless these contracts get resolved.

 

[Cleric]

I find the whole twist on the narrative around Endo really bizarre, and honestly it shows how much certain fans make their decisions based on what twitter is saying as opposed to using their own eyes.

At the beginning of last season, we were all surprised and praising him for how progressive his passing and general play was, and right we were, he was far more of a player than the one dimensional destroyer we were expecting. Now ever since Slots come in and it's clear he wants to strengthen this position, which is fair enough, some of you are acting like all Endos ever done is gone around kicking people and getting a nose bleed everytime he looks at the oppositions goal, is your memory that short?

Now I'm not saying he should be starting for us, absolutely we want a higher calibre player in that position, although personally I'm very relaxed with Gravenberch there, however I'm not going to accept this narrative that Endos some kind of Japanese Jay Spearing. He's clearly a very competent player who helped us a great deal last season, and can again this season as a great squad player. Seeing as we aren't going to sign anyone in that position, he knows our system, and clearly he can play, it makes zero sense to sell him now, show him some respect.

I agree that Endo was good for a run of games last season but he also had quite a few horrible performances.

This season, he came on late against Brentford and we seemed to lose control pretty quickly. Its difficult judging a player who's not playing regularly and not got rhythm but to my eyes he often has a poor first touch, doesn't turn easily and is too slow to catch a player if he's beaten, which is quite often. He's not physical enough to bully opposition but he does offer some progressive passing. Is that fair?

I don't see how you say Endo knows our system when our MF is quite different under Slot and Endo hasn't been played in preseason, or in the first three PL games.

He was bought as a starter under Klopp - as our only out and out DM - so you saying he shouldn't be starting kindof confirms my point, that he isn't good enough. I think he'll eventually cost us in the games where we do have to start him.

Someone else said Endo was a success because he helped us to 3rd. That is barking! With Rice we could have possibly gone all the way - he helped Arsenal really push City. That's the difference between a £115m player and a £16m one. I don't want to buy the league but Endo encapsulates the lack of ambition from FSG and, dare I say, from some of our fans.

I also don't know why someone saud we'd 'never go back in' for Andre. We tried to buy him last winter, so has he suddenly knee-jerk become shit? It seems a missed opportunity given Marseille offered us £12m for Endo, who is what, 31, now? Our squad is really strong and I'm not desperate for signings but I do think you need to keep refreshing the squad to keep everyone on their toes. Virgil said he expected signings to improve the squad, but I guess he read that on twitter?

 

[Hyena]

All I'll say is, a lot of us (including myself) were sure Gravenberch was going to move this summer.

Which was a very fair assessment based on last season. Same goes for Diaz.

Slot and Hughes see and discuss what goes on in training and they know where each player's head/physical condition is at. Things change all the time. Fundamentally, every player who has put on a Liverpool shirt these past two seasons IS a very good player. Their tactical / physical profile / condition may or may not fit what the coach needs but that is an assessment that the team continually makes and revises. So if we were looking for a 6, but we changed our mind, there may be a reason for it.

I'm not saying I'm convinced this is the case, but I'm also not closing my mind to it.

 

[juniormember]

I agree that Endo was good for a run of games last season but he also had quite a few horrible performances.

This season, he came on late against Brentford and we seemed to lose control pretty quickly. Its difficult judging a player who's not playing regularly and not got rhythm but to my eyes he often has a poor first touch, doesn't turn easily and is too slow to catch a player if he's beaten, which is quite often. He's not physical enough to bully opposition but he does offer some progressive passing. Is that fair?

I don't see how you say Endo knows our system when our MF is quite different under Slot and Endo hasn't been played in preseason, or in the first three PL games.

He was bought as a starter under Klopp - as our only out and out DM - so you saying he shouldn't be starting kindof confirms my point, that he isn't good enough. I think he'll eventually cost us in the games where we do have to start him.

Someone else said Endo was a success because he helped us to 3rd. That is barking! With Rice we could have possibly gone all the way - he helped Arsenal really push City. That's the difference between a £115m player and a £16m one. I don't want to buy the league but Endo encapsulates the lack of ambition from FSG and, dare I say, from some of our fans.

I also don't know why someone saud we'd 'never go back in' for Andre. We tried to buy him last winter, so has he suddenly knee-jerk become shit? It seems a missed opportunity given Marseille offered us £12m for Endo, who is what, 31, now? Our squad is really strong and I'm not desperate for signings but I do think you need to keep refreshing the squad to keep everyone on their toes. Virgil said he expected signings to improve the squad, but I guess he read that on twitter?

So he's slow, has a poor first touch, often gets beaten one on one, loses out in physicality and gets bullied, and can't turn on the ball. But can pass forward sometimes.
Amazing how well we did last season in spite of him then.