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Would you?

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I'm sure he has problems, I think that's half the reason we got rid and left it until late in the window to do so.

It's not just his injuries though, it's his attitude problems, which were evident long before he left us.
 
ok, well you can't prove that and i can't disprove it, so it's completely pointless debating it. OBVIOUSLY we shouldn't sign him if he's crocked. that just goes without saying.

attitiude problem: yes, he's a bit of a sulky tart. not a major problem for me.
 
[quote author=Whitey85 link=topic=47904.msg1443408#msg1443408 date=1323860879]
But Suarez loves playing for us, chases everything, makes things happen out of nothing. Torres hasn't done that for over a couple of years now. Too busy stuck in woe is me mode.
[/quote]

Indeed, that's why, as most of us in the pro Torres camp have stated, Torres would have to show a real desire to join. Because lets not lie, when Torres was first here he always put in 100%.
 
[quote author=Mystic link=topic=47904.msg1443414#msg1443414 date=1323861255]
Because lets not lie, when Torres was first here he always put in 100%.
[/quote]

I'm not actually sure if that's true. I think his attitude on the pitch was always a bit questionable. When he's scoring goals you tend to forget that though(rightly so). He never puts in the effort someone like Suarez does, or at least he never looks like he does.
 
I think with torres he started brightly and then the accolades got to his head. Best striker in the world, carrying liverpool with another world great

I think he thought he could just turn up and score. And when that didn't happen and he was slated for his lack of effort he thought "fuck this" and fucked off to chelsea

Of course this is all a story i've hypothesised in my head
 
[quote author=Gerry_A_Trick link=topic=47904.msg1443419#msg1443419 date=1323861695]
[quote author=Mystic link=topic=47904.msg1443414#msg1443414 date=1323861255]
Because lets not lie, when Torres was first here he always put in 100%.
[/quote]

I'm not actually sure if that's true. I think his attitude on the pitch was always a bit questionable. When he's scoring goals you tend to forget that though(rightly so). He never puts in the effort someone like Suarez does, or at least he never looks like he does.

[/quote]

Half the top strikers in the past we have had appeared never to put in the effort most games and also appeared to go missing for the majority of the game then turn up and score a few..

Owen, Aldo, Fowler and even to an extent Rush where like this...
 
[quote author=Fabio link=topic=47904.msg1443420#msg1443420 date=1323861860]
I think with Torres he started brightly and then the accolades got to his head. Best striker in the world, carrying liverpool with another world great

I think he thought he could just turn up and score. And when that didn't happen and he was slated for his lack of effort he thought "fuck this" and fucked off to chelsea

Of course this is all a story i've hypothesised in my head
[/quote]

that'd be why he was shit for Spain in the world cup, then? hey, maybe he deliberately got dropped for the final so he wouldn't have to bother playing!
 
I don't care, I don't want him, I think it would be a disaster.

I expect that he will never go on to regain the form he showed with us.

You do.

Meh.
 
Another thing i've wondered, how long would it take before the fans started singing his song again? Because lets be honest, it's the best song we've had since the Rafa Benitez song!
 
[quote author=Mystic link=topic=47904.msg1443426#msg1443426 date=1323862237]
Another thing i've wondered, how long would it take before the fans started singing his song again? Because lets be honest, it's the best song we've had since the Rafa Benitez song!
[/quote]

As soon as he scores his first goal I'd imagine...
 
After Owen collapsed at Elland Road with that hamstring tear, we were stuck with a potentially great striker who was so deeply neurotic the whole team seemed distracted every time he sensed another niggle. Countless chances were wasted as other players tried to play him back into goalscoring form, and it seemed at times as though 'getting Michael right' was a higher priority than winning games. I think the same thing happened with Torres - once he had his injuries he too became a profoundly neurotic player who expected everything to be shaped around his struggle to regain his form. It's that neuroticism that made the exit of both a blessing in disguise. We need a cocky, fit, ambitious, team-spirited young striker to come in, not someone with that amount of baggage. We need more energy and dynamism, not less.
 
[quote author=Gerry_A_Trick link=topic=47904.msg1443425#msg1443425 date=1323862167]
I don't care, I don't want him, I think it would be a disaster.

I expect that he will never go on to regain the form he showed with us.

You do.

Meh.
[/quote]

eh? is this at me? i hope you don't mean i expect him to regain his best form - ie 07/08?

because i've been saying that's not gonna happen since months before we sold him. i do, however, think he can regain the really encouraging form he showed for chelsea before he got sent off against swansea.
 
[quote author=Gerry_A_Trick link=topic=47904.msg1443425#msg1443425 date=1323862167]
I don't care, I don't want him, I think it would be a disaster.

I expect that he will never go on to regain the form he showed with us.

You do.

Meh.
[/quote]

He doesn't have to regain that form, even if he's only two thirds of the player he was, that player would still be one of, if not the best, striker in the league. In his "rubbish" season for us, he still scored 22 goals in all competitions and that was after his knees were fucked. Luis Suarez will do good to equal that record this season, yet he's the best player in our team but a long shot, i know they're different players but the point is, he still has that in him, he's only 27 and up front with Luis Suarez he'd be a fucking monster. Who in there right mind would not want a front line named The Kid (El Niño) and The Gunslinger (El Pistolero).
 
What form? He's scored 3 goals in 25 games for Chelsea. 6 in 36 if you include the cups.

Carroll by comparison has 4 in 19 (5 in 23 including cups). So much the same, and nobody who wants Torres seems to want him.

We need a striker to come here and score goals, Torres hasn't done that in a while. We need someone younger, hungrier and with the potential to improve.
 
[quote author=gkmacca link=topic=47904.msg1443429#msg1443429 date=1323862369]
After Owen collapsed at Elland Road with that hamstring tear, we were stuck with a potentially great striker who was so deeply neurotic the whole team seemed distracted every time he sensed another niggle. Countless chances were wasted as other players tried to play him back into goalscoring form, and it seemed at times as though 'getting Michael right' was a higher priority than winning games. I think the same thing happened with Torres - once he had his injuries he too became a profoundly neurotic player who expected everything to be shaped around his struggle to regain his form. It's that neuroticism that made the exit of both a blessing in disguise. We need a cocky, fit, ambitious, team-spirited young striker to come in, not someone with that amount of baggage. We need more energy and dynamism, not less.
[/quote]

I agree, however I think selling him off and allowing him to reflect on his mistakes, and allowing Suarez to take the mantle will stop this happening. Torres won't be the golden boy if he comes back, he'll have to earn back the respect of the fans and the club.
 
[quote author=gkmacca link=topic=47904.msg1443429#msg1443429 date=1323862369]
After Owen collapsed at Elland Road with that hamstring tear, we were stuck with a potentially great striker who was so deeply neurotic the whole team seemed distracted every time he sensed another niggle. Countless chances were wasted as other players tried to play him back into goalscoring form, and it seemed at times as though 'getting Michael right' was a higher priority than winning games. I think the same thing happened with Torres - once he had his injuries he too became a profoundly neurotic player who expected everything to be shaped around his struggle to regain his form. It's that neuroticism that made the exit of both a blessing in disguise. We need a cocky, fit, ambitious, team-spirited young striker to come in, not someone with that amount of baggage. We need more energy and dynamism, not less.
[/quote]

i'd agree that there should be no sentimentality involved. Torres should only be considered if he's genuinely the best option. i don't particularly agree with your analysis though: obviously he had a lot of injuries, and that upset the team itself, but my recollection is that whenever he was fit he'd score goals remarkably consistently. he was a problem player last season, but i think those were unique circumstances for everyone.
 
[quote author=Gerry_A_Trick link=topic=47904.msg1443434#msg1443434 date=1323862702]
What form? He's scored 3 goals in 25 games for Chelsea. 6 in 36 if you include the cups.

Carroll by comparison has 4 in 19 (5 in 23 including cups). So much the same, and nobody who wants Torres seems to want him.

We need a striker to come here and score goals, Torres hasn't done that in a while. We need someone younger, hungrier and with the potential to improve.
[/quote]

Because he hasn't turned it on for Chelsea, however he's been proved for us that he can. Carroll has just had a 6 month purple patch.

Do you honestly believe he just lost all his ability the moment he left us and joined Chelsea, and don't say he was playing rubbish for a year before hand, just look at his scoring stats, which for the first half of last season is more prolific than anyone we've had since.
 
[quote author=gkmacca link=topic=47904.msg1443429#msg1443429 date=1323862369]
After Owen collapsed at Elland Road with that hamstring tear, we were stuck with a potentially great striker who was so deeply neurotic the whole team seemed distracted every time he sensed another niggle. Countless chances were wasted as other players tried to play him back into goalscoring form, and it seemed at times as though 'getting Michael right' was a higher priority than winning games. [/quote]

totally agree.
 
I don't care any more. Nobody is going to be able to convince me that spending 20m on Torres is a good idea.

If there were no other players on the planet I may consider it, but there are, and we should concentrate on them.
 
Mystic he has equally proved that he cant score for long periods. Why assume the best case scenario?

I find the notion of relying on someone being proven as lazy. And an almost certain way to waste money , people only think of what a player would immediately to a team disregarding the fact we probably have to give him a four or five year deal.
 
[quote author=Gerry_A_Trick link=topic=47904.msg1443441#msg1443441 date=1323863210]
I don't care any more. Nobody is going to be able to convince me that spending 20m on Torres is a good idea.

If there were no other players on the planet I may consider it, but there are, and we should concentrate on them.
[/quote]

£20million is steep, £15million is what we should offer, but seriously, who better is there for either of those figures?
 
I see it like this;

a) has torres lost his 'mojo'?

or

b) has torres purely been utilised in the wrong manner, first by hodgeson and then by chelsea?

before rafa bought torres I will be totally honest and say I didn't want us to purchase him purely because I had seen him at AM and he looked like more of a creator than an actually scorer. he played deeper and then drifted into the box, an effective player but not a prolific player.

rafa saw the goal scoring potential in him, played him on the shoulder of the last defender and gave him the brief of just sticking the ball in the back of the net. he went on to become argubly the best striker on the planet. It should be noted that at this time he was working his socks off.

then we lost rafa, and in came hodgeson who as far as I was concerned was attempting to turn torres into a gloried heskey. torres was up front on his own and isolated, his team mates were twenty yards behind him. the defense were giving free licence to hoof the ball up to him, he often had to attempt to hold off two burely defenders single handidly.
it's worth noting that the work rate dropped off.

now was torres disillusioned with our style of play (which didn't play to his strengths) or purely the fact we weren't challenging?

off he went to chelsea, and again they utilised a style of play that didn't play to his strengths. the goal drought continued.

so...have the goals dried up because torres is croaked and past it or because he isn't being utilised in the correct manner, after all the only person who really made torres prolific was rafa and that was by playing to his strengths, something no one has done before or since.
 
Update #15
Yes
Y1, Anita, Themn, Mystic, The Man from Del Monte, KHL, Peterhague, Refugee (15 is the max bag of potatoes you can get), Mistabolina, Squeaky, Anyone with a Brain, Jono, Modo, Chan, localny, Insig, Vantage

No
Fabio, El Pistol, St George, Mama, Rosco, Binny, Ulster, Asbo, StevieM, Hansern, Avvy, Ryan, Markeh, studsup, Gerry, Whitey, GKmacca,

Dunno (Indecisive quiffers and uncommitted campers) - (And those who want him on a loan only!)
K4PM, FFF, Spidey, RedZep, SummerOnion, Roppy, Dreamy
 
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=47904.msg1443442#msg1443442 date=1323863490]
Mystic he has equally proved that he cant score for long periods. Why assume the best case scenario?

I find the notion of relying on someone being proven as lazy. And an almost certain way to waste money , people only think of what a player would immediately to a team disregarding the fact we probably have to give him a four or five year deal.
[/quote]

The balls in our court, offer him the terms we want. Four year deal is fine for me, he'll have to accept it and probably a wage cut. If he's not interested fine, but we have the power of the discussions now.

I assume the most relevant scenario. Things haven't worked at Chelsea because he doesn't fit the club, he fits in here and we have 4-5seasons of proof. Look at Rush, he went to Juventus and was hardly a success, did better than Torres, but not much better. He came back here and he scored goals again, just like Torres would do.
 
Fiver a week and he has to spit shine spearings boots every morning

And only would i offer that deal if he was free


then i'd let him rot on the bench

fuck

fer

nan

do

torres
 
[quote author=Y1 link=topic=47904.msg1443445#msg1443445 date=1323863738]

Update #15
Yes
Anyone with a Brain,
[/quote]

:laugh:
 
torres as replaced owen as 'the past it once prolific but now crocked striker who left in bad circumstances' we want back.
 
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=47904.msg1443448#msg1443448 date=1323864054]
[quote author=Y1 link=topic=47904.msg1443445#msg1443445 date=1323863738]

Update #15
Yes
Anyone with a Brain,
[/quote]

:laugh:
[/quote]

I thought it was an appropriate thing to add =D
 
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=47904.msg1443448#msg1443448 date=1323864054]
[quote author=Y1 link=topic=47904.msg1443445#msg1443445 date=1323863738]

Update #15
Yes
Anyone with a Brain,
[/quote]

:laugh:
[/quote]

That was Themn. ;D
 
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