Poll would you drop carra?
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[quote author=Sunny link=topic=46831.msg1399268#msg1399268 date=1316108667]
Have we also forgot that footy is a team game and our misfiring forwards are just as culpable for the result ?
[/quote]
Of course .. but it would help if the forwards didn't have a dozen hoofs a game to fend off ! And to be fair that for me is my main criticism of Carra (and Carroll) it's that they don't help the team play pass n move football.
Have we also forgot that footy is a team game and our misfiring forwards are just as culpable for the result ?
[/quote]
Of course .. but it would help if the forwards didn't have a dozen hoofs a game to fend off ! And to be fair that for me is my main criticism of Carra (and Carroll) it's that they don't help the team play pass n move football.
[quote author=The Slugmonster link=topic=46831.msg1399246#msg1399246 date=1316102940]
When I voted I voted on current form...and yes on current form Carra, I feel, should be dropped. Nostalgia aside, thats the way the team should be picked. If building a competitive squad was the management and owners main goal and they believe they've done so, then no one, not Carra, Gerrard or anyone else for that matter should be guaranteed a place. Supporters who are of the opinion that he's done this and he's done that over the years are talking bollox if they think the form and game saving tackles of years ago should merit Jamie with a starting place! It's that kind of thinking (and one I personally hope Kenny doesnt share) that will see us falling into the lower half of the top ten in no time. The team HAS to be picked on current form. I love Carra I really do and I know one day he will hang up his boots and move on but for right now I think he should be dropped just to be given a wake up call...I do trust him to bounce back from it though! I dont think he's finished by any means but no one should be guaranteed a place and maybe he needs to see just how hungry the younger center halves are! 8)
[/quote]
Forgive me, but this is unmitigated rubbish, and shows an absolutely staggering lack of insight into man-management.
The premier league is littered with managers currently managing good players, who are struggling for form, or are on the wane - their default position IS NOT "stick him on the bench and bring in the 18 yr old".
If you make knee jerk decisions, you end up dropping good players, and getting yourself caught in a vicious cycle of poor form, low morale and ultimately unsettled players - look in recent history and you can pick any number of examples (goalkeepers are easiest, followed by strikers) but the most pronounced of our players was probably Michael Owen (significant barren spells with somewhat limited team contribution, punctuated with fantastic returns - the old "strikers score in batches"😉
Do you stick with someone who is well past his sell by date? No. Do you have to manage senior players carefully? Absolutely.
We all know that Carra hasnt got years and years left, but it is laughable to suggest that we are more likely to plummet to the bottom of the top 10 with him in the team, than by blooding a youngster with no experience in this, or any other top league. Champ Manager at its finest.
When I voted I voted on current form...and yes on current form Carra, I feel, should be dropped. Nostalgia aside, thats the way the team should be picked. If building a competitive squad was the management and owners main goal and they believe they've done so, then no one, not Carra, Gerrard or anyone else for that matter should be guaranteed a place. Supporters who are of the opinion that he's done this and he's done that over the years are talking bollox if they think the form and game saving tackles of years ago should merit Jamie with a starting place! It's that kind of thinking (and one I personally hope Kenny doesnt share) that will see us falling into the lower half of the top ten in no time. The team HAS to be picked on current form. I love Carra I really do and I know one day he will hang up his boots and move on but for right now I think he should be dropped just to be given a wake up call...I do trust him to bounce back from it though! I dont think he's finished by any means but no one should be guaranteed a place and maybe he needs to see just how hungry the younger center halves are! 8)
[/quote]
Forgive me, but this is unmitigated rubbish, and shows an absolutely staggering lack of insight into man-management.
The premier league is littered with managers currently managing good players, who are struggling for form, or are on the wane - their default position IS NOT "stick him on the bench and bring in the 18 yr old".
If you make knee jerk decisions, you end up dropping good players, and getting yourself caught in a vicious cycle of poor form, low morale and ultimately unsettled players - look in recent history and you can pick any number of examples (goalkeepers are easiest, followed by strikers) but the most pronounced of our players was probably Michael Owen (significant barren spells with somewhat limited team contribution, punctuated with fantastic returns - the old "strikers score in batches"😉
Do you stick with someone who is well past his sell by date? No. Do you have to manage senior players carefully? Absolutely.
We all know that Carra hasnt got years and years left, but it is laughable to suggest that we are more likely to plummet to the bottom of the top 10 with him in the team, than by blooding a youngster with no experience in this, or any other top league. Champ Manager at its finest.
[quote author=grjt link=topic=46831.msg1399421#msg1399421 date=1316165548]
Forgive me, but this is unmitigated rubbish, and shows an absolutley staggering lack of insight into man-management.
The premier league is littered with managers currently managing good players, who are struggling for form, or are on the wane - their default position IS NOT "stick him on the bench and bring in the 18 yr old".
If you make knee jerk decisions, you end up dropping good players, and getting yourself caught in a vicious cycle of poor form, low morale and ultimately unsettled players - look in recent history and you can pick any number of examples (goalkeepers aare easiest, followed by strikers) but the most pronounced of our players was probably Michael Owen (significant barren spells with somewhat limited team contribution, punctuated with fantastic returns - the old "stikers score in batches"😉
Do you stick with someone who is well past his sell by date? No. Do you have to manage senior players carefully? Absolutely.
We all know that Carra hasnt got years and years left, but it is laughable to suggest that we are more likely to plummet to the bottom of the top 10 with him in the team, than by blooding a youngster with no experience in this, or any other top league. Champ Manager at its finest.
[/quote]
*applauds*
Forgive me, but this is unmitigated rubbish, and shows an absolutley staggering lack of insight into man-management.
The premier league is littered with managers currently managing good players, who are struggling for form, or are on the wane - their default position IS NOT "stick him on the bench and bring in the 18 yr old".
If you make knee jerk decisions, you end up dropping good players, and getting yourself caught in a vicious cycle of poor form, low morale and ultimately unsettled players - look in recent history and you can pick any number of examples (goalkeepers aare easiest, followed by strikers) but the most pronounced of our players was probably Michael Owen (significant barren spells with somewhat limited team contribution, punctuated with fantastic returns - the old "stikers score in batches"😉
Do you stick with someone who is well past his sell by date? No. Do you have to manage senior players carefully? Absolutely.
We all know that Carra hasnt got years and years left, but it is laughable to suggest that we are more likely to plummet to the bottom of the top 10 with him in the team, than by blooding a youngster with no experience in this, or any other top league. Champ Manager at its finest.
[/quote]
*applauds*
[quote author=Frogfish link=topic=46831.msg1399266#msg1399266 date=1316108046]
[quote author=Sunny link=topic=46831.msg1399263#msg1399263 date=1316107338]
That must have been a mirage that was out of position then
[/quote]
He's still been our best CB so far this season though Sunny. No question.
Skrtel played very well last season ... especially when he had Carra beside him. I wouldn't be very confident he could do as well next to Agger but I may be wrong. We didn't pay 7M for a 20 yr old Coates to sit on the bench. I'm sure he will be given chances and will be groomed to replace Carra. I hope to see him given game time (sub appearances / FAC / LC) ASAP.
Those stats Gerry posted are, as is oft pointed out, just lies and then .... I counted Carra hoof it 5 times in one 15 mins spell after HT (then gave up counting) and mamy of his passes were back-passes to Pepe or to Agger. So something is out of kilter. Or just another case of lies, damned lies and statistics proving nothing (and this from someone who loves stats) !
[/quote]
Absolute JOKE!!
Agger has been our best defender this season, Carragher has gifted 1 goal to bolton and given away the penalty which lost us 3points. Please explain how on earth you came up with Carrgher has been our best CB this season?
[quote author=Sunny link=topic=46831.msg1399263#msg1399263 date=1316107338]
That must have been a mirage that was out of position then
[/quote]
He's still been our best CB so far this season though Sunny. No question.
Skrtel played very well last season ... especially when he had Carra beside him. I wouldn't be very confident he could do as well next to Agger but I may be wrong. We didn't pay 7M for a 20 yr old Coates to sit on the bench. I'm sure he will be given chances and will be groomed to replace Carra. I hope to see him given game time (sub appearances / FAC / LC) ASAP.
Those stats Gerry posted are, as is oft pointed out, just lies and then .... I counted Carra hoof it 5 times in one 15 mins spell after HT (then gave up counting) and mamy of his passes were back-passes to Pepe or to Agger. So something is out of kilter. Or just another case of lies, damned lies and statistics proving nothing (and this from someone who loves stats) !
[/quote]
Absolute JOKE!!
Agger has been our best defender this season, Carragher has gifted 1 goal to bolton and given away the penalty which lost us 3points. Please explain how on earth you came up with Carrgher has been our best CB this season?
[quote author=zlatan18 link=topic=46831.msg1399427#msg1399427 date=1316167417]
[quote author=Frogfish link=topic=46831.msg1399266#msg1399266 date=1316108046]
[quote author=Sunny link=topic=46831.msg1399263#msg1399263 date=1316107338]
That must have been a mirage that was out of position then
[/quote]
He's still been our best CB so far this season though Sunny. No question.
Skrtel played very well last season ... especially when he had Carra beside him. I wouldn't be very confident he could do as well next to Agger but I may be wrong. We didn't pay 7M for a 20 yr old Coates to sit on the bench. I'm sure he will be given chances and will be groomed to replace Carra. I hope to see him given game time (sub appearances / FAC / LC) ASAP.
Those stats Gerry posted are, as is oft pointed out, just lies and then .... I counted Carra hoof it 5 times in one 15 mins spell after HT (then gave up counting) and mamy of his passes were back-passes to Pepe or to Agger. So something is out of kilter. Or just another case of lies, damned lies and statistics proving nothing (and this from someone who loves stats) !
[/quote]
Absolute JOKE!!
Agger has been our best defender this season, Carragher has gifted 1 goal to bolton and given away the penalty which lost us 3points. Please explain how on earth you came up with Carrgher has been our best CB this season?
[/quote]
You aren't slagging one of our players of, are you, zlatan ?
You won't be "bigging him up" next week, when he has a good game, will you ?
Oh, you haven't got the wrong end of the stick, have you, zlatan ?
Cheers Modo !
[quote author=Frogfish link=topic=46831.msg1399266#msg1399266 date=1316108046]
[quote author=Sunny link=topic=46831.msg1399263#msg1399263 date=1316107338]
That must have been a mirage that was out of position then
[/quote]
He's still been our best CB so far this season though Sunny. No question.
Skrtel played very well last season ... especially when he had Carra beside him. I wouldn't be very confident he could do as well next to Agger but I may be wrong. We didn't pay 7M for a 20 yr old Coates to sit on the bench. I'm sure he will be given chances and will be groomed to replace Carra. I hope to see him given game time (sub appearances / FAC / LC) ASAP.
Those stats Gerry posted are, as is oft pointed out, just lies and then .... I counted Carra hoof it 5 times in one 15 mins spell after HT (then gave up counting) and mamy of his passes were back-passes to Pepe or to Agger. So something is out of kilter. Or just another case of lies, damned lies and statistics proving nothing (and this from someone who loves stats) !
[/quote]
Absolute JOKE!!
Agger has been our best defender this season, Carragher has gifted 1 goal to bolton and given away the penalty which lost us 3points. Please explain how on earth you came up with Carrgher has been our best CB this season?
[/quote]
You aren't slagging one of our players of, are you, zlatan ?
You won't be "bigging him up" next week, when he has a good game, will you ?
Oh, you haven't got the wrong end of the stick, have you, zlatan ?
Cheers Modo !
carras got a few monumental fuck ups in his locker, but we'd be in a much shiter position defensively if we were to go without the countless outstanding, incredibly important last minute tackles he makes, not to mention that when he's not in the team the rest f the back 4 look like headless chickens.
Now if agger can stay injury free and improve, that Jacket fella lives up to his potential and Steve Clarke can teach th lads to organise themselves then we can think about easing carra out of the squad, personally i think thats a fair few seasons away myself.
Now if agger can stay injury free and improve, that Jacket fella lives up to his potential and Steve Clarke can teach th lads to organise themselves then we can think about easing carra out of the squad, personally i think thats a fair few seasons away myself.
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=46831.msg1399430#msg1399430 date=1316167821]
This thread pains me. Clueless nouveau fan cockwarts writing off a club legend after one error. It's fucking painful reading.
[/quote]
True ... It's a similar feeling to how many of our loyal, veteran fans write off new signings and expect such drastic improvements from our club despite where we were 12 months ago ...
Portly - planning is one thing ... No one can argue against that.
This thread pains me. Clueless nouveau fan cockwarts writing off a club legend after one error. It's fucking painful reading.
[/quote]
True ... It's a similar feeling to how many of our loyal, veteran fans write off new signings and expect such drastic improvements from our club despite where we were 12 months ago ...
Portly - planning is one thing ... No one can argue against that.
I don't think we should drop Carra.
That said, from what I've read, I don't think people are arguing we should drop him on the back of one error. Those arguing in favour of dropping him have been doing so for some time now. It's a little unfair to dismiss the argument as kneejerk.
That said, from what I've read, I don't think people are arguing we should drop him on the back of one error. Those arguing in favour of dropping him have been doing so for some time now. It's a little unfair to dismiss the argument as kneejerk.
Carra will probably be phased out of his starting responsibilities over the coming years. I think he'd be the first one to demand that if he realized he couldn't perform at the level needed.
carra is going to be phased out eventually, even the most ardent carra fan would admit carra is in decline, that said is phasing out carra sooner rather than later (i.e. this season) more beneificial than phasing him out over the next two seasons (next year) especially when we are chasing a CL position and teething problems may have a massive impact?
personally speaking I trust kenny on this one, if he thinks carra is the best bet moving forwards this season then who knows better than kenny? if and when it comes time to pull the plug I don't think kenny is the type to be afraid to make that call.
personally speaking I trust kenny on this one, if he thinks carra is the best bet moving forwards this season then who knows better than kenny? if and when it comes time to pull the plug I don't think kenny is the type to be afraid to make that call.
[quote author=zlatan18 link=topic=46831.msg1399427#msg1399427 date=1316167417]
[quote author=Frogfish link=topic=46831.msg1399266#msg1399266 date=1316108046]
[quote author=Sunny link=topic=46831.msg1399263#msg1399263 date=1316107338]
That must have been a mirage that was out of position then
[/quote]
He's still been our best CB so far this season though Sunny. No question.
Skrtel played very well last season ... especially when he had Carra beside him. I wouldn't be very confident he could do as well next to Agger but I may be wrong. We didn't pay 7M for a 20 yr old Coates to sit on the bench. I'm sure he will be given chances and will be groomed to replace Carra. I hope to see him given game time (sub appearances / FAC / LC) ASAP.
Those stats Gerry posted are, as is oft pointed out, just lies and then .... I counted Carra hoof it 5 times in one 15 mins spell after HT (then gave up counting) and mamy of his passes were back-passes to Pepe or to Agger. So something is out of kilter. Or just another case of lies, damned lies and statistics proving nothing (and this from someone who loves stats) !
[/quote]
Absolute JOKE!!
Agger has been our best defender this season, Carragher has gifted 1 goal to bolton and given away the penalty which lost us 3points. Please explain how on earth you came up with Carrgher has been our best CB this season?
[/quote]
I suggest that, young though you are, a pair of reading glasses would seriously assist your contributions.
[quote author=Frogfish link=topic=46831.msg1399266#msg1399266 date=1316108046]
[quote author=Sunny link=topic=46831.msg1399263#msg1399263 date=1316107338]
That must have been a mirage that was out of position then
[/quote]
He's still been our best CB so far this season though Sunny. No question.
Skrtel played very well last season ... especially when he had Carra beside him. I wouldn't be very confident he could do as well next to Agger but I may be wrong. We didn't pay 7M for a 20 yr old Coates to sit on the bench. I'm sure he will be given chances and will be groomed to replace Carra. I hope to see him given game time (sub appearances / FAC / LC) ASAP.
Those stats Gerry posted are, as is oft pointed out, just lies and then .... I counted Carra hoof it 5 times in one 15 mins spell after HT (then gave up counting) and mamy of his passes were back-passes to Pepe or to Agger. So something is out of kilter. Or just another case of lies, damned lies and statistics proving nothing (and this from someone who loves stats) !
[/quote]
Absolute JOKE!!
Agger has been our best defender this season, Carragher has gifted 1 goal to bolton and given away the penalty which lost us 3points. Please explain how on earth you came up with Carrgher has been our best CB this season?
[/quote]
I suggest that, young though you are, a pair of reading glasses would seriously assist your contributions.
[quote author=LeTallecWiz link=topic=46831.msg1399440#msg1399440 date=1316170491]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=46831.msg1399430#msg1399430 date=1316167821]
This thread pains me. Clueless nouveau fan cockwarts writing off a club legend after one error. It's fucking painful reading.
[/quote]
True ... It's a similar feeling to how many of our loyal, veteran fans write off new signings and expect such drastic improvements from our club despite where we were 12 months ago ...
Portly - planning is one thing ... No one can argue against that.
[/quote]
I never expected drastic improvements. I predicted us struggling to make top 4 many times. You're talking fucking shite as per usual. Stick to fucking ice hockey.
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=46831.msg1399430#msg1399430 date=1316167821]
This thread pains me. Clueless nouveau fan cockwarts writing off a club legend after one error. It's fucking painful reading.
[/quote]
True ... It's a similar feeling to how many of our loyal, veteran fans write off new signings and expect such drastic improvements from our club despite where we were 12 months ago ...
Portly - planning is one thing ... No one can argue against that.
[/quote]
I never expected drastic improvements. I predicted us struggling to make top 4 many times. You're talking fucking shite as per usual. Stick to fucking ice hockey.
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=46831.msg1399449#msg1399449 date=1316174792]
[quote author=LeTallecWiz link=topic=46831.msg1399440#msg1399440 date=1316170491]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=46831.msg1399430#msg1399430 date=1316167821]
This thread pains me. Clueless nouveau fan cockwarts writing off a club legend after one error. It's fucking painful reading.
[/quote]
True ... It's a similar feeling to how many of our loyal, veteran fans write off new signings and expect such drastic improvements from our club despite where we were 12 months ago ...
Portly - planning is one thing ... No one can argue against that.
[/quote]
I never expected drastic improvements. I predicted us struggling to make top 4 many times. You're talking fucking shite as per usual. Stick to fucking ice hockey.
[/quote]
ice hockey? that's a bit out of left field, isn't it?
[quote author=LeTallecWiz link=topic=46831.msg1399440#msg1399440 date=1316170491]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=46831.msg1399430#msg1399430 date=1316167821]
This thread pains me. Clueless nouveau fan cockwarts writing off a club legend after one error. It's fucking painful reading.
[/quote]
True ... It's a similar feeling to how many of our loyal, veteran fans write off new signings and expect such drastic improvements from our club despite where we were 12 months ago ...
Portly - planning is one thing ... No one can argue against that.
[/quote]
I never expected drastic improvements. I predicted us struggling to make top 4 many times. You're talking fucking shite as per usual. Stick to fucking ice hockey.
[/quote]
ice hockey? that's a bit out of left field, isn't it?
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=46831.msg1399451#msg1399451 date=1316175033]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=46831.msg1399449#msg1399449 date=1316174792]
[quote author=LeTallecWiz link=topic=46831.msg1399440#msg1399440 date=1316170491]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=46831.msg1399430#msg1399430 date=1316167821]
This thread pains me. Clueless nouveau fan cockwarts writing off a club legend after one error. It's fucking painful reading.
[/quote]
True ... It's a similar feeling to how many of our loyal, veteran fans write off new signings and expect such drastic improvements from our club despite where we were 12 months ago ...
Portly - planning is one thing ... No one can argue against that.
[/quote]
I never expected drastic improvements. I predicted us struggling to make top 4 many times. You're talking fucking shite as per usual. Stick to fucking ice hockey.
[/quote]
ice hockey? that's a bit out of left field, isn't it?
[/quote]
No. You're thinking of baseball, Neil.
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=46831.msg1399449#msg1399449 date=1316174792]
[quote author=LeTallecWiz link=topic=46831.msg1399440#msg1399440 date=1316170491]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=46831.msg1399430#msg1399430 date=1316167821]
This thread pains me. Clueless nouveau fan cockwarts writing off a club legend after one error. It's fucking painful reading.
[/quote]
True ... It's a similar feeling to how many of our loyal, veteran fans write off new signings and expect such drastic improvements from our club despite where we were 12 months ago ...
Portly - planning is one thing ... No one can argue against that.
[/quote]
I never expected drastic improvements. I predicted us struggling to make top 4 many times. You're talking fucking shite as per usual. Stick to fucking ice hockey.
[/quote]
ice hockey? that's a bit out of left field, isn't it?
[/quote]
No. You're thinking of baseball, Neil.
[quote author=Portly link=topic=46831.msg1399433#msg1399433 date=1316168288]
On behalf of the nouveau fan cockwarts, I'd say that it's not just one error - despite his valuable experience, Carra has been struggling for some time and taking risks trying to paper over the cracks. It's time to start planning for a back four without Carra. 🙂
[/quote]
Completely agree Portly. It seems some people on here feel it is sacrilege to even think about replacing one of our icons (why were Shanks, Bob & Slurface so successful in forging team after team - because they were not afraid to replace stars showing signs of being on the wane) and are forgetting Carra will be 34 in January and it is only right we start blooding his replacement now (or do they expect Carra to play maybe 50+ games this season ?) or maybe they would prefer to wait until the signs of aging are yet more obvious ? :🙂
On behalf of the nouveau fan cockwarts, I'd say that it's not just one error - despite his valuable experience, Carra has been struggling for some time and taking risks trying to paper over the cracks. It's time to start planning for a back four without Carra. 🙂
[/quote]
Completely agree Portly. It seems some people on here feel it is sacrilege to even think about replacing one of our icons (why were Shanks, Bob & Slurface so successful in forging team after team - because they were not afraid to replace stars showing signs of being on the wane) and are forgetting Carra will be 34 in January and it is only right we start blooding his replacement now (or do they expect Carra to play maybe 50+ games this season ?) or maybe they would prefer to wait until the signs of aging are yet more obvious ? :🙂
It's easy come into a tread and call people 'superfans' or 'cockwarts'. It's also easy to keep your views to yourself in the face of such needless ridicule and OTT aggression. That's the reason 50 odd people have voted to drop Carra yet only a handful have posted to that affect in this thread.
This thread has come about because of this weekends game but not one poster has suggested Carragher be dropped because of that one single error. The thread title aside, this is not really a knee-jerk reaction at all.
FFF - I am not disputing Carragher will have a positive impact on our season, how could he not? He is our best defender. I am of the view that he is approaching the point (quite quickly IMO) of being no longer guaranteed his place should his form drop. Let's be honest, he hasn't had a great start to the season. We have a big squad there now with four CB's all looking to get in, the time will come when we will have to be without him so why not be prepared for that by blooding new guys at CB (Kelly & Coates) and having a ready made replacement. United are playing Jones & Smalling for this reason, they're the next Ferdinand & Vidic and they will both slot in when the time comes.
This thread has come about because of this weekends game but not one poster has suggested Carragher be dropped because of that one single error. The thread title aside, this is not really a knee-jerk reaction at all.
FFF - I am not disputing Carragher will have a positive impact on our season, how could he not? He is our best defender. I am of the view that he is approaching the point (quite quickly IMO) of being no longer guaranteed his place should his form drop. Let's be honest, he hasn't had a great start to the season. We have a big squad there now with four CB's all looking to get in, the time will come when we will have to be without him so why not be prepared for that by blooding new guys at CB (Kelly & Coates) and having a ready made replacement. United are playing Jones & Smalling for this reason, they're the next Ferdinand & Vidic and they will both slot in when the time comes.
[quote author=Lewy link=topic=46831.msg1399434#msg1399434 date=1316168891]
..... then we can think about easing carra out of the squad, personally i think thats a fair few seasons away myself.
[/quote]
So 34 in Jan and you want him as our first choice CB for a fair few more seasons ? What would that be ? 3 or 4 ? Until he's 37/38 years old ?!?! 😱
..... then we can think about easing carra out of the squad, personally i think thats a fair few seasons away myself.
[/quote]
So 34 in Jan and you want him as our first choice CB for a fair few more seasons ? What would that be ? 3 or 4 ? Until he's 37/38 years old ?!?! 😱
[quote author=LeTallecWiz link=topic=46831.msg1399443#msg1399443 date=1316171715]
Carra will probably be phased out of his starting responsibilities over the coming years. I think he'd be the first one to demand that if he realized he couldn't perform at the level needed.
[/quote]
Perhaps. However Carra also regards distribution as one of his main strengths.
Carra will probably be phased out of his starting responsibilities over the coming years. I think he'd be the first one to demand that if he realized he couldn't perform at the level needed.
[/quote]
Perhaps. However Carra also regards distribution as one of his main strengths.
[quote author=Stulikesdrums link=topic=46831.msg1399455#msg1399455 date=1316175474]
It's easy come into a tread and call people 'superfans' or 'cockwarts'. It's also easy to keep your views to yourself in the face of such needless ridicule and OTT aggression. That's the reason 50 odd people have voted to drop Carra yet only a handful have posted to that affect in this thread.
This thread has come about because of this weekends game but not one poster has suggested Carragher be dropped because of that one single error. The thread title aside, this is not really a knee-jerk reaction at all.
FFF - I am not disputing Carragher will have a positive impact on our season, how could he not? He is our best defender. I am of the view that he is approaching the point (quite quickly IMO) of being no longer guaranteed his place should his form drop. Let's be honest, he hasn't had a great start to the season. We have a big squad there now with four CB's all looking to get in, the time will come when we will have to be without him so why not be prepared for that by blooding new guys at CB (Kelly & Coates) and having a ready made replacement. United are playing Jones & Smalling for this reason, they're the next Ferdinand & Vidic and they will both slot in when the time comes.
[/quote]
Excellent post. Spot on Stu.
It's easy come into a tread and call people 'superfans' or 'cockwarts'. It's also easy to keep your views to yourself in the face of such needless ridicule and OTT aggression. That's the reason 50 odd people have voted to drop Carra yet only a handful have posted to that affect in this thread.
This thread has come about because of this weekends game but not one poster has suggested Carragher be dropped because of that one single error. The thread title aside, this is not really a knee-jerk reaction at all.
FFF - I am not disputing Carragher will have a positive impact on our season, how could he not? He is our best defender. I am of the view that he is approaching the point (quite quickly IMO) of being no longer guaranteed his place should his form drop. Let's be honest, he hasn't had a great start to the season. We have a big squad there now with four CB's all looking to get in, the time will come when we will have to be without him so why not be prepared for that by blooding new guys at CB (Kelly & Coates) and having a ready made replacement. United are playing Jones & Smalling for this reason, they're the next Ferdinand & Vidic and they will both slot in when the time comes.
[/quote]
Excellent post. Spot on Stu.
[quote author=Stulikesdrums link=topic=46831.msg1399455#msg1399455 date=1316175474]
United are playing Jones & Smalling for this reason, they're the next Ferdinand & Vidic and they will both slot in when the time comes.
[/quote]
Are united not playing them due to injuries to Rafael and Vidic?
Anyway there seems to be confusion as to the question. I took it to mean, should Carra no longer be our first choice centre back. Hence I voted no. All this talk of phasing out wasn't the question, or at least not as I understood it.
I don't think anyone has said we shouldn't prepare for the future, nor have they said that his position in the team won't be up for debate in the future. At present I still believe he's our best centre back, when that changes I will change my vote.
United are playing Jones & Smalling for this reason, they're the next Ferdinand & Vidic and they will both slot in when the time comes.
[/quote]
Are united not playing them due to injuries to Rafael and Vidic?
Anyway there seems to be confusion as to the question. I took it to mean, should Carra no longer be our first choice centre back. Hence I voted no. All this talk of phasing out wasn't the question, or at least not as I understood it.
I don't think anyone has said we shouldn't prepare for the future, nor have they said that his position in the team won't be up for debate in the future. At present I still believe he's our best centre back, when that changes I will change my vote.
This season so far (and i know it's still early) carra hasn't done anything to suggest he's our best defender still. Agger looks strong, skrtel has improved immeasurably. If say carras decline and the others improvement has caused us to have 3 very strong defenders.
[quote author=Stulikesdrums link=topic=46831.msg1399455#msg1399455 date=1316175474]
It's easy come into a tread and call people 'superfans' or 'cockwarts'. It's also easy to keep your views to yourself in the face of such needless ridicule and OTT aggression. That's the reason 50 odd people have voted to drop Carra yet only a handful have posted to that affect in this thread.
This thread has come about because of this weekends game but not one poster has suggested Carragher be dropped because of that one single error. The thread title aside, this is not really a knee-jerk reaction at all.
FFF - I am not disputing Carragher will have a positive impact on our season, how could he not? He is our best defender. I am of the view that he is approaching the point (quite quickly IMO) of being no longer guaranteed his place should his form drop. Let's be honest, he hasn't had a great start to the season. We have a big squad there now with four CB's all looking to get in, the time will come when we will have to be without him so why not be prepared for that by blooding new guys at CB (Kelly & Coates) and having a ready made replacement. United are playing Jones & Smalling for this reason, they're the next Ferdinand & Vidic and they will both slot in when the time comes.
[/quote]
Fair post Stu, I don't really have a problem with players being rested/dropped when needs must, I do think we're in a more difficult situation than United though with regards to blooding youngsters, they're doing it from a position of strength with two players who are comfortable with the league, we're talking about a Uruguayan 20yr old being brought into a side that HAS to qualify for the CL. Carragher's experience in this respect is imperative because neither Agger or Skrtel really have the leadership or organisation skills that he has. He's made errors and it's a note of caution and a reminder that he's wavering, but the problem for me with this thread was always more about the people who are at the ready with their views on dropping Carra, the usual Championship Manager suspects.
It's easy come into a tread and call people 'superfans' or 'cockwarts'. It's also easy to keep your views to yourself in the face of such needless ridicule and OTT aggression. That's the reason 50 odd people have voted to drop Carra yet only a handful have posted to that affect in this thread.
This thread has come about because of this weekends game but not one poster has suggested Carragher be dropped because of that one single error. The thread title aside, this is not really a knee-jerk reaction at all.
FFF - I am not disputing Carragher will have a positive impact on our season, how could he not? He is our best defender. I am of the view that he is approaching the point (quite quickly IMO) of being no longer guaranteed his place should his form drop. Let's be honest, he hasn't had a great start to the season. We have a big squad there now with four CB's all looking to get in, the time will come when we will have to be without him so why not be prepared for that by blooding new guys at CB (Kelly & Coates) and having a ready made replacement. United are playing Jones & Smalling for this reason, they're the next Ferdinand & Vidic and they will both slot in when the time comes.
[/quote]
Fair post Stu, I don't really have a problem with players being rested/dropped when needs must, I do think we're in a more difficult situation than United though with regards to blooding youngsters, they're doing it from a position of strength with two players who are comfortable with the league, we're talking about a Uruguayan 20yr old being brought into a side that HAS to qualify for the CL. Carragher's experience in this respect is imperative because neither Agger or Skrtel really have the leadership or organisation skills that he has. He's made errors and it's a note of caution and a reminder that he's wavering, but the problem for me with this thread was always more about the people who are at the ready with their views on dropping Carra, the usual Championship Manager suspects.
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=46831.msg1399449#msg1399449 date=1316174792]
[quote author=LeTallecWiz link=topic=46831.msg1399440#msg1399440 date=1316170491]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=46831.msg1399430#msg1399430 date=1316167821]
This thread pains me. Clueless nouveau fan cockwarts writing off a club legend after one error. It's fucking painful reading.
[/quote]
True ... It's a similar feeling to how many of our loyal, veteran fans write off new signings and expect such drastic improvements from our club despite where we were 12 months ago ...
Portly - planning is one thing ... No one can argue against that.[/quote]
I never expected drastic improvements. I predicted us struggling to make top 4 many times. You're talking fucking shite as per usual. Stick to fucking ice hockey.
[/quote]
I wasn't really talking about you - you're just Dreamy MK II with your continual miserable dribble about our players, but at least you seem to at least understand what the club is doing (get to the top 4 and then start signing top talent that you're banging on about - granted, you surely don't blame Mata or A. Young for going to clubs that have European footy).
I don't hockey that well mate, that's darkstar ... I can't even name you the top two lines anymore of my favorite team ... Fucking shite, eh?
[quote author=LeTallecWiz link=topic=46831.msg1399440#msg1399440 date=1316170491]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=46831.msg1399430#msg1399430 date=1316167821]
This thread pains me. Clueless nouveau fan cockwarts writing off a club legend after one error. It's fucking painful reading.
[/quote]
True ... It's a similar feeling to how many of our loyal, veteran fans write off new signings and expect such drastic improvements from our club despite where we were 12 months ago ...
Portly - planning is one thing ... No one can argue against that.[/quote]
I never expected drastic improvements. I predicted us struggling to make top 4 many times. You're talking fucking shite as per usual. Stick to fucking ice hockey.
[/quote]
I wasn't really talking about you - you're just Dreamy MK II with your continual miserable dribble about our players, but at least you seem to at least understand what the club is doing (get to the top 4 and then start signing top talent that you're banging on about - granted, you surely don't blame Mata or A. Young for going to clubs that have European footy).
I don't hockey that well mate, that's darkstar ... I can't even name you the top two lines anymore of my favorite team ... Fucking shite, eh?
[quote author=Sunny link=topic=46831.msg1399504#msg1399504 date=1316179917]
Those people denying kneejerk should question the fact that this threads mere existence came about straight away after Carras penalty fuck up. Why not at the start of the season? Or maybe one or two games in ? This thread in itself is kneejerk.
[/quote]
There may not have been a dedicated thread (however I'm sure there probably one or two) but you can't deny people have been saying Carra should no longer be guaranteed a first team spot for a while now.
In the same way we seem to get a new thread when former player / player on loan has a good game that tries to reinforce the point we made a mistake, you're going to get threads after a player who people rate as questionable for whatever reason fucks up.
Those people denying kneejerk should question the fact that this threads mere existence came about straight away after Carras penalty fuck up. Why not at the start of the season? Or maybe one or two games in ? This thread in itself is kneejerk.
[/quote]
There may not have been a dedicated thread (however I'm sure there probably one or two) but you can't deny people have been saying Carra should no longer be guaranteed a first team spot for a while now.
In the same way we seem to get a new thread when former player / player on loan has a good game that tries to reinforce the point we made a mistake, you're going to get threads after a player who people rate as questionable for whatever reason fucks up.
- Status
