West Ham Post Match Thread

[moron]

Most of us knew that what happened today was the result we kind of expected. It was again painful to watch the players in the final third - we hardly tested their goalkeeper in the first 30 minutes. I actually feel sorry for them today because this is the 6th game we have had in which the opposition have been rock solid defending heavily and yet our players tried and tried to break them down but just cannot do it. The wrong decisions are made the wrong passes are made - and what this proves is that we need at least two players who have that game intelligence to break down hard and organised defenses. The current crop of players are not capable - it is clear now. I am now willing to write-off Firminio as a bad buy, and although Benteke has got us the winners in the previous games - his limitations were there for all to see.

To be honest it is not their fault that they are just not good enough when they face these kind of teams. Its a shame because we control most games in terms of possession play but cannot do anything effective with it.

 

[eecheerow]

I don't know what was worse... watching Benteke continue to be utterly fucking useless the vast majority of the time for us or listening to Danny Mills bang on and on and fucking on about how we need to change the way we play to cater to him.

Anyway, completely dreadful performance and completely fucking predictable. Not fucking good enough.

 

[LeTallecWiz]

Thoughts:

• Their first goal is infuriating - clear foul, not given. Horrible closing down (Lucas, hobbling Moreno), and great goal. But it's just unlucky and average teams (HI LIVERPOOL!) don't get these calls often.
• The ref confused me - calls a foul on Lovren for his tackle on Carroll early on (excellent tackle) and then doesn't even talk to Carroll for a late cleats on ankle tackle on Clyne - as I said, average teams don't get the rub of the green often.
• Lucas will be a hot topic - thoughts on him in the other thread:
  Very average player - reads the game well, but injuries have taken away his speed so often times, his mind reacts faster than his legs can and that's why you see 7 yellow cards, countless fouls etc ... He's a great guy, loves the club but the only way he can dominate the middle is when we're dominating the upper third (i.e. Man City etc). If the game is a physical confrontation in the middle or when we're struggling, he'll have a far tougher time and his clearly lacking physical abilities will let him down. I think we saw in the last two games - two physical, stronger teams - were handled ok by Henderson and Can. We need better - anyone who thinks Lucas is a 'top DM' is dreaming. He's not the reason we lost - we were shite (again) but I'll be amazed (and worried for Jurgen's long term future) if Lucas is meant to be a key contributor in the next campaign.
• Firmino is a clearly smart, technically gifted player. He also showed great strength to knock Valencia off the ball when chasing back after a poor attempt but he seems to work TOO slowly ... He needs to move quicker ... I am not giving up on the player but he's starting to worry me.
• Can is going to be a very good player. He just needs to combine where he's doing really well now with releasing the ball quicker.
• Ibe - thinks too much on the ball.
• Benteke - I think today highlighted why he won't be a Liverpool player next year (or at least shouldn't be if we keep Klopp). Collins slips and gives him a straight path to goal. He takes one terrible touch, and then another, and then isn't aware enough to see Tomkins on the other side. I kept on thinking of Suarez's goal in the 4-0 drubbing of Everton - he shielded the Everton player perfectly and kept him at bay for almost half the pitch to score. Benteke is faster than Suarez and far stronger ... It's just really poor game awareness. He also made too many stupid runs and doesn't work hard enough. IF you're gonna do that, you better be scoring at a consistent clip. He is currently, but he's clearly not on the same page as our attacking players, which is causing us to look so average in the final third.
• Coutinho ... Oh Mr. Streaky ... If Barca comes in with a 40 million bid this summer, I'd sell. I just don't see a player who can make the right decisions more often than not. When he's on, he's a joy to watch - but that's around 1 every 10 games. When he's not - I'm ok with his shooting (because he's so dangerous) but he just doesn't make the right passes enough. Granted, I'm probably being harsh because he's playing with a striker who doesn't make the right runs enough but he's our best player (sad eh?) and he contributes so little.
• I hope enough of us have been good boys this year, because it will take a miracle from Father Christmas or Hanukkah Harry to get 4th.

 

[Jack D Rips]

Injuries pushed us to play Lucas and therefore we lost ....its simples...



Also why yhe duck was this not a Sunday game? We have played Sunday on so many meaningless occassions and the one time we play saturday is less than two days fromour previous game...


Gotta feel for all those who ran their heart.

Firmino wil get some stick and rightly so....but his workrate is Suarezisque....he needs to find a way to gel with the team and be more confident. He doesnt have that byte to his game that Suarez had...see what i did there?

We play again on Tuesday.

 

[Jack D Rips]

The amount of crosses that came into our box today was frightening. It may be old school but I want my fullbacks to be able to defend first and foremost. Today our fullbacks were very poor defensively.

 

[manwithnoname]

A result that most people expected, even before the terrible news that Lucas would be starting due to Henderson's injury. But even though Lucas has an obvious negative effect on the team due to him being shit, the form of Sakho was another huge worry, as he has also been appalling since returning to the side.

So, no surprises. But Klopp surely knows now that he requires plenty of new signings, as many of his players like the aforementioned plus Firmino and Lallana are also not good enough to play in a top quality side regularly. For all the posturing and pie-eyed quacking about how Klopp can get this squad performing at the required level, hopefully sanity is finally beginning to prevail; 4 or 5 new players at least.

We never got into the game and were disappointingly second best all over the pitch. This has happened too often this season.

Mignolet (5) isn't good with crosses into his area, so unsurprising that he failed to deal with most of them and was left exposed

Clyne (4) has had a great start to his Liverpool career, but was well below par here and beaten too often

Lovren (6) again the pick of the defenders and didn't do much wrong

Sakho (3) fucking miserable again. 50p head in full effect, and looked clueless with the ball. We need Skrtel back and a new centre half. This bloke is shit.

Moreno (4) all over the place and allowed cross after cross into the box

Lucas (2) another execrable, slow, laughably hapless and embarrassing display from possibly the worst midfield player currently playing in the Premiership.

Can (6) couldn't do it all on his own, had no real help

Ibe (5) how we miss Sterling's quality and goal threat

Coutinho (5) his shots either fly in, or go into Row Z. Currently favouring Row Z

Firmino (4) shithouse display, twatting about not doing much yet again. I have no idea why he is starting games

Benteke (5) given zero support, balls to attack or any sign of a partnership forming with the hapless Firmino. What he did do was average.

 

[Buddha]

Like I said before the game, I'm gutted for Teixeira that he couldn't get any minutes ahead of our misfiring midfield.

 

[tony]

As poor as we were I didn't think the Hammers were much better. The difference between the two sides was that they carried a viable goal threat while we didn't.
Can and Lovren are probably the only two players to come out of today with any credit.
When you play with small full backs it is to be expected that opposing strong tall players will target them. It cost us both goals today and almost a third.
Brad Smith had a decent cameo and at least seems to be able to cross the ball.
I am hoping that the poor run of form of Coutinho, Firmino and Lallana is mostly down to the lack of mobility ahead of them.
They were similarly poor last season with Mario up to and only improved when Sterling played as a striker.
We lack winners in the squad it seems. Games like today don't seem to hurt the majority of players enough it seems.

So so true, we could easily have got a point from that game, and the ref didn't do us any favours again, the cunt was like the twelfth man. Collins had Benteke in his pocket the whole game. That was as inept a performance from a striker as you could wish to see, and even when he was released he either fucked up his one on one or passed to the opposition when he could have had a clear shot. It must be soul destroying trying to pick out passes to this lump. Roll on a fit Sturridge back in the side, we cannot fail to improve. To be honest heads went down after the second goal but Can battled away even though he was carrying a knock, I thought he had a great game.

 

[Vlads Quiff]

I largely agree with most of that MWNN but don't completely get the Sakho criticism

 

[Gary25]

The worst thing for me is West Ham were very ordinary today I thought. What they did very well was have little spells in the game when they got about us, broke on us and got numbers forward and looked to cause us problems that way.

We huffed and puffed but never had anything about us in the attacking sense. When we've the guts of 60mil in Firmino and Benteke that's a sad state of affairs indeed. Coutinho was a disgrace too. I'm not usually a big fan of Can but he at least looked like he gave a shit.

Another pitiful, weak showing by this Liverpool side. All too predictable but nonetheless very hard to accept.

 

[refugee]

I largely agree with most of that MWNN but don't completely get the Sakho criticism

His heading was poor in the first half, although I thought it improved in the second half. He really isn't very good in the air though, have a look at the disaster of a header he made for Watford's second goal (which everyone seems to have ignored as Skrtel fucked up as well).

Here are his heading stats from last season:

His heading stats from this season

Whilst he has improved, it's still pretty pathetic really when he is a a 6 foot 2 central defender.

 

[refugee]

And here are his stats from the season before
http://www.sixcrazyminutes.com/index.php?threads/sakho.50213/page-2#post-1133300

 

[Arn]

It isn't easy for our central defenders. They must cover space Mig should cover.

 

[Arn]

It would be no problem to name 20+ keepers in the PL that is better than Mignolet.

 

[Vlads Quiff]

Yes but stats tell us that Lucas is the Brazilian Mascherano - which he ain't - so I'll ignore them if it's all the same

 

[Vlads Quiff]

I bet if you got some meaningful stats like points won when Sakho is and isn't playing and clean sheets ditto I might take some notice- I would also be surprised if they were negative

 

[manwithnoname]

His heading was poor in the first half, although I thought it improved in the second half. He really isn't very good in the air though, have a look at the disaster of a header he made for Watford's second goal (which everyone seems to have ignored as Skrtel fucked up as well).

Here are his heading stats from last season:

His heading stats from this season

Whilst he has improved, it's still pretty pathetic really when he is a a 6 foot 2 central defender.

Head like a fucking 50p

 

[Arn]

Yes but stats tell us that Lucas is the Brazilian Mascherano - which he ain't - so I'll ignore them if it's all the same

The stats will tell you that Lucas the last seasons have been the most physical player in the PL. That is why he get a lot of yellow cards. He must do some of the dirty work that other players should do. He will never back out of a challenge. That is also the reason to why get injured.

He isn't a top class player, he is very limited but he is our best defensive player by some distance. Today for example in the second half he played alone as a defensive midfielder and that allowed other players to attack more. We created a lot more chances because of that.

Some of you don't have a clue about any sort of tactic.

 

[refugee]

Head like a fucking 50p

Absolutely.

 

[Vlads Quiff]

It used to be threepenny but forty years ago [emoji48]

 

[Vlads Quiff]

The stats will tell you that Lucas the last seasons have been the most physical player in the PL. That is why he get a lot of yellow cards. He must do some of the dirty work that other players should do. He will never back out of a challenge. That is also the reason to why get injured.

He isn't a top class player, he is very limited but he is our best defensive player by some distance. Today for example in the second half he played alone as a defensive midfielder and that allowed other players to attack more. We created a lot more chances because of that.

Some of you don't have a clue about any sort of tactic.

You're right Arn, some of us are fucking clueless

 

[Leo]

I can't understand why every other club in Europe didn't see this when he was available for 4 million in the summer.
It's a mystery that only Besiktas were interested.

 

[Vlads Quiff]

You are probably right about him being our best defensive midfield player by some way - that is no recommendation though - The point is if you don't have a decent defensive mid don't play one as if you do you are undone time and time again and no offering going forward

 

[Vlads Quiff]

I can't understand why every other club in Europe didn't see this when he was available for 4 million in the summer.
It's a mystery that only Besiktas were interested.

Or on a fucking loan which every bastard went shy on - Its like some sort of cult hypnosis

 

[Arn]

You're right Arn, some of us are fucking clueless

You are one of the clueless ones. You blame Lucas for almost everything even that you clearly don't have a clue what type of job a defensive midfielder should do. You don't have a clue. You are indeed clueless. Playing Lucas alone as a defensive midfielder allow our other midfielders to attack more. He is able to do that work himself. It is a big difference when we play with two defensive midfielders. When we do that we see a Lucas that won't control the defensive midfield.

Lucas as our only defensive midfielder have almost never been a problem. It is when we play with two defensive midfielders that we play much worse.

 

[manwithnoname]

Is Arn mentally ill, or just pretending to be?

 

[cloggypop]

It would be no problem to name 20+ keepers in the PL that is better than Mignolet.

Go on then.

 

[Leo]

Or on a fucking loan which every bastard went shy on - Its like some sort of cult hypnosis

Or maybe they have scouts that are actually able to do their job.

 

[Arn]

Go on then.

Cech, de Gea, Butland, Lloris, Hart, Schmeichel, Adrian, Begovic, Ruddy, Krul, Courtois, Romero, McCarthy, Caballero, Vorm, Valdes, Speroni, Forster, Hennessey, Stekelenburg.

 

[cloggypop]

Cech, de Gea, Butland, Lloris, Hart, Schmeichel, Adrian, Begovic, Ruddy, Krul, Courtois, Romero, McCarthy, Caballero, Vorm, Valdes, Speroni, Forster, Hennessey, Stekelenburg.

Can you put them in a list please.