Well there's confirmation for you. Because some guy on a forum says so.
Tony Barrret Article
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Well there's confirmation for you. Because some guy on a forum says so.
Correction. My Dad's pal was on the scouting team at the club in the 70s and 80s. I last spoke to this guy 25+ years ago although I think I saw his car (the plate was the giveaway) about six months ago. So there you go, I'm on the inside. Trust me, I know things. My sources are impeccable.
What is?
Well, I believe that a reporter that works at the Echo, like Pearce, must write what the club want and isn't allowed to be to negative. Barrett that now work for the Times must write more speculative articles to sell papers. If Pearce started to criticize the club to much then he would IMO be sacked.
This is interesting from Barrett (from 24th June) and pretty much goes against alot of what he says in the opening article:
On Firmino, he believes that it fits into Brendan Rodgers' designs on establishing a 4-3-3.
"If you look at the kind of players he has available now, 4-3-3 does become more attainable. If you look at the midfield three which as things stand would be Emre Can, Jordan Henderson and James Milner. And then you've got your attacking three of Daniel Sturridge, and/or Christian Benteke - should he arrive - and you've got Firmino, Coutinho and those kinds of players. You do see the potential for a 4-3-3," said Barrett, who also added that the players most concerned should be Adam Lallana and Lazar Markovic.
So, according to Barrett two months ago, Can, Henderson and Milner make up his preferred three in midfield. What? Not Joe Allen? Does that make him a committee signing then?
Firmino fits into RODGERS vision of 433.
Adam Lallana should be concerned? I thought he was "safe"?
On Firmino, he believes that it fits into Brendan Rodgers' designs on establishing a 4-3-3.
"If you look at the kind of players he has available now, 4-3-3 does become more attainable. If you look at the midfield three which as things stand would be Emre Can, Jordan Henderson and James Milner. And then you've got your attacking three of Daniel Sturridge, and/or Christian Benteke - should he arrive - and you've got Firmino, Coutinho and those kinds of players. You do see the potential for a 4-3-3," said Barrett, who also added that the players most concerned should be Adam Lallana and Lazar Markovic.
So, according to Barrett two months ago, Can, Henderson and Milner make up his preferred three in midfield. What? Not Joe Allen? Does that make him a committee signing then?
Firmino fits into RODGERS vision of 433.
Adam Lallana should be concerned? I thought he was "safe"?
That he's only playing these players because he signed them. His so called rejects played 99 games between them last season, so it's a point that doesn't really stand up.
Twitter name please.
@TonyBarretTimes
No, it does.
Fucking hell, let it go
Great response. Explain why they played 99 games last season then, when there were other options available to Rodgers who he brought in or gave chances to. Markovic played in midfield and wing back, ahead of quite a few players.
There were other options available who Rodgers signed or has, at other times, favoured. So this point about him favouring his own signings and citing Markovic and Moreno as examples is grossly flawed. I'm not sure where Can comes into it, no one's mentioned him either way. Or are we waiting to see if he's a success or not, before deciding?
I couldn't remember who was mentioned, I just thought it was can
But yeah, some players just got played due to lack of competition, or lack of options
Devils advocate
Markovic had a fair bit of competition. He played fullback and on the wing, ahead of players like Johnson, Manquillo, Moreno, Ibe, etc. It's a bit of a grey area, so my point still stands. I don't really see how Barrett (or Pete, bless) is striking up this theory. There's holes in it everywhere.
Behave. Manquillo was binned early, Johnson was chronically shit or injured, and ibe on loan. Marko still got binned second half of the season. Even can played there. Hendo too!
Manquillo made 16 appearances during the first half of the season. Markovic played more when Manquillo was there and available than when he had been dropped permanently. It still doesn't really stack up anyway, Moreno played practically all of last season, despite us being prepared to play anything but a full back after dropping Manquillo from the opposite flank. Sakho had his injury problems but played most of the time he was available.
It's very difficult to make sense of our transfer strategy and correlate it with what we see on the pitch week in, week out. With that in mind Rodgers is an obvious target given that he has a hand in player recruitment and is solely responsible for what happens to the players once they arrive. I have some sympathy for Peter's argument (I think - I'm not really sure what is being argued any more in this thread) but it's portrayed in too black and white a manner.
It's possible to present a reasonable argument for almost every signing we've made in the last 18 months or so when taken in isolation. And those arguments have been presented, often well received and there has been much joy and optimism. The problem comes afterwards when we look at the group as a whole and very quickly serious questions emerge.
The midfield appears to lack balance unless Rodgers has got some kind of ace up his sleeve. I've been saying all summer that whilst Milner is a good player, the fact that he's similar in many ways to what we already had could present us with issues. Are we going to persist with trying to make Henderson / Milner play in a way that lessens their effectiveness as we saw to an extent against Stoke? Where does that leave the very talented Can? Is he the one to sacrifice his game (and potentially development)?
At the back we've got the very expensive Sakho who can't seem to stay fit competing against the very expensive Lovren who has a huge task ahead of him to prove himself after a disastrous first season. We have resigned Toure for some unknown reason who continues to get games ahead of the young players we've invested huge amounts of money and / or time in. What's going on there? The bottom line is that we'll have serious money sat on the bench or somewhere else.
Moreno was bought for 12M. Now we're playing Gomez there. I'm not complaining necessarily because Moreno looks very raw and Gomez looks class but reports that Moreno is up for sale are worrying.
Then up front there are all kinds of questions surrounding how we're going to get a consistent system going out of the players we've got and playing in harmony with the midfield. Amongst those questions is what the fuck are we doing with our 20M investment in Markovic who surely can't spend another season filling in here and there or more likely sitting in the stands.
We bought Balotelli and Lambert last season who very quickly became surplus to requirements. Now we've got Ings, Benteke and Origi to go with our glut of attacking midfielders... who is going to play? Who is going to miss out? Who is going to stagnate as a player?
Is it just me? What the fuck is going on with this squad?
It's possible to present a reasonable argument for almost every signing we've made in the last 18 months or so when taken in isolation. And those arguments have been presented, often well received and there has been much joy and optimism. The problem comes afterwards when we look at the group as a whole and very quickly serious questions emerge.
The midfield appears to lack balance unless Rodgers has got some kind of ace up his sleeve. I've been saying all summer that whilst Milner is a good player, the fact that he's similar in many ways to what we already had could present us with issues. Are we going to persist with trying to make Henderson / Milner play in a way that lessens their effectiveness as we saw to an extent against Stoke? Where does that leave the very talented Can? Is he the one to sacrifice his game (and potentially development)?
At the back we've got the very expensive Sakho who can't seem to stay fit competing against the very expensive Lovren who has a huge task ahead of him to prove himself after a disastrous first season. We have resigned Toure for some unknown reason who continues to get games ahead of the young players we've invested huge amounts of money and / or time in. What's going on there? The bottom line is that we'll have serious money sat on the bench or somewhere else.
Moreno was bought for 12M. Now we're playing Gomez there. I'm not complaining necessarily because Moreno looks very raw and Gomez looks class but reports that Moreno is up for sale are worrying.
Then up front there are all kinds of questions surrounding how we're going to get a consistent system going out of the players we've got and playing in harmony with the midfield. Amongst those questions is what the fuck are we doing with our 20M investment in Markovic who surely can't spend another season filling in here and there or more likely sitting in the stands.
We bought Balotelli and Lambert last season who very quickly became surplus to requirements. Now we've got Ings, Benteke and Origi to go with our glut of attacking midfielders... who is going to play? Who is going to miss out? Who is going to stagnate as a player?
Is it just me? What the fuck is going on with this squad?
That's a good post @keniget and I guess it could sit in any one of a number of recent threads. I also think there is some merit in the crux of @peterhague's argument but not in how he reaches it ie by slavishly following the word of some selected ITKs. As for the rest of your post, yep, nails on the head there.
To be fair in recent times, it is not the SCM discussions which have prevented me from enjoying the players. I would place the blame on the players for me not being able to enjoy them by being shit.
How can that be better?
That would mean the "committee" get there own way and carry on pushing their ideas onto the next manager.
Basically its a power struggle over who knows best with regard to coaching and identifying players. If you ask me we should trust our manager to build a team.
Yeah but if you look at his signings as opposed to the committee's they're really poor.
This manager is the last man we should've trusted to build our squad.
I don't follow it slavishly. That's a deliberate slur.
You're attempting to debunk the extreme opinion you've wrongly identified me as having about our set up by taking the even more wrong-headed opposite extreme.
Firstly, I don't think the transfer committee that we have is an entirely novel situation. I never actually said anything of the kind. Clearly at most clubs the manager faces certain restraints from various colleagues, be they scouting teams or directors or whatever. Clearly there's some degree of co-operation regarding transfer policy.
Secondly, just because there's some element of that kind of approach at other clubs, doesn't mean that there isn't more or much more of that approach at LFC.
I think you're just plain wrong to assert that there's only a superficial difference. I've already provided an outline of shifting transfer approaches under BR that illustrates the formation of the committee. I suggest you refer to it. From that can then be traced which signings are basically Rosgers's and which the committee's.
It's not cherry-picking.
I've assigned them on a consistent basis, firstly on the assumption that our 2012 targets were his (seems incontrovertible), noting their characteristics, and then spotting the later ones fitting the same criteria. Not only that, but there's a kind of double check, because there's also strong anecdotal evidence that FSG want the club to pursue value through young players, and almost all the 'non-Rodgers' signings conform to that second set of criteria.
That seems like a pretty strong proof to me.
The 'favouritism' thing I'd agree is a bit tenuous and was really more of a side issue I allowed myself to get drawn into. To the extent I think it's true, it's not a complaint against Rodgers per se, but evidence that some are 'his' players and some 'theirs'. And it's mainly true not in terms of team selections (although it is somewhat) but in squad building priorities (Lovren and Lallana last summer (Sakho and Markovic both somewhat sidelined) and Ings and Milner this summer (Origi and Can)).
I think it's more or less like that. The change in approach this summer has been quite sharp and reading between the lines one can deduce that he'll have stressed the importance of PL experience and the lack of it in last summer's signings was a key part of our struggles. Surely to acknowledge the change in approach is to acknowledge Rodgers's influence: it's been stated that he got all his targets, it's been said that he's been backed and that this is his test. Ayre and Werner are on record to that effect.
Pearce is saying that Rodgers isn't playing Lovren instead of Sakho because he's his signing but because he just thinks he's better, not that Lovren isn't his signing and Sakho isn't the committee's and therefore no basis for potential favouritism exists.
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