Rodger's summer spending

[keniget]

It's not looking good right about now, is it?

We may have suffered a few knockbacks over the course of the summer with our first choice targets but it's increasingly looking like we spent the bulk of our money on luxury purchases when we'd have been much better off addressing the real problem areas of our side.

Illori - 6M, Alberto - 7M, Sakho - 17M - that's 40M worth of players that are seen as 'for the future' with only one of them that is really going to be counted on to make an impact this season and we've already discussed that his position was one we had covered (though perhaps not adequately in some peoples eyes). And as a result of those expenditures we seemed to go for loan deals to cover areas in which we were actually genuinely light in. Both have backfired.

I think many, including myself, wanted to see the midfield addressed in the summer and again after huge sums of money being spent in the summer we're all counting down the days till the January window.

 

[DHSC]

Don't understand this for the future business though. Rodgers should just play them.

 

[LeTallecWiz]

agger can go if barca or city offer us 15 mill+ ... sorry kris.

glenjo can go if we get 10+ mill. I'm sure madrid can use another attacking player who can't defend.

 

[Gary25]

Add in last summer's £26m spent on Allen and Borini who we've farmed out on loan, people have every right to question these signings.

 

[refugee]

Said the same thing in the Rodgers 5 year contract thread.

Midfield is a major worry despite Corporal Jones's continued instance that it isn't a concern.

 

[gene hughes]

Yea, the Alberto one is really starting to bother me.

 

[King Binny]

[article]Mamadou Sakho
Tiago Ilori
Victor Moses
Aly Cissokho
Simon Mignolet
Iago Aspas
Luis Alberto
Kolo Touré
Coutinho
Daniel Sturridge
Nuri Sahin
Oussama Assaidi
Joe Allen
Fabio Borini[/article]
Hit rate?

 

[Frogfish]

[article]Mamadou Sakho
Tiago Ilori
Victor Moses
Aly Cissokho
Simon Mignolet
Iago Aspas
Luis Alberto
Kolo Touré
Coutinho
Daniel Sturridge
Nuri Şahin
Oussama Assaidi
Joe Allen
Fabio Borini[/article]
Hit rate?

4 - Excellent or Better (Sakho, Sturridge, Mignolet, Coutinho)
1 - Very Good (Toure)
1 - Jury's Still Out (Alberto)
2 - Young and for the Future (Ilori & Borini)
6 - Seemingly a Fail (however with Şahin, Moses and Cissokho they aren't major fails since they seemed on paper to be good loans to fill the squad, rather than splashing the cash we didn't have, that just didn't work out)

I'm really not sure how that matches up to other teams' hit-rate. Many seem to have just as many failures. However more spent on 1st team players and less on squad players would certainly have improved us and give our strong crop of youngsters a chance from the bench.

 

[Fabio]

Yea, the Alberto one is really starting to bother me.

Quite

I think he will be a good player, but I just can't work out why he isn't playing when Coutinho isnt

 

[Holle]

Quite

I think he will be a good player, but I just can't work out why he isn't playing when Coutinho isnt

Games like yesterday are the chance for a player like him to make a difference.

He didn't.

 

[Rosco]

Yea, the Alberto one is really starting to bother me.

I don't think I'm allowed to comment on him after the abuse I took at the end of the summer (from the 'you have to see him in a red shirt brigade) for saying it looked like a crazy signing.

It's hard to figure out where we'll go next with signings.

Borini and Allen - clearly Rodgers himself is behind spotting those. They are run of the mill, average manager bad signings.

Coutinho and Sturridge - yay. I think yesterday showed the importance of the pair. We need to get back to whatever mindset we were in when we signed this pair.

Because last summers additions ..... Alberto and Ilori are signings that rarely work for us. They're works in progress that need games, and we never risk giving them games. They're pointless signings.

Sakho I can't make my mind up on but he simply has to play. We've had long enough to see the Skrtel Agger partnership to know that we were foolish not to take the offers on the table a year ago.

I'd love to know who scouted Aspas. None of that scouts recommendations should be followed

 

[Fabio]

Games like yesterday are the chance for a player like him to make a difference.

He didn't.

I'd agree but he's not a Gerrard. He can't grab a game by the scruff of the neck if he can't even get on the ball.

 

[Rosco]

Julian Ward
Ward is the club’s regional scouting manager for Portugal and Spain, another who was appointed in autumn 2012 from Man City. He has been scouting LFC target Luis Alberto and seems to be an important figure given Liverpool’s current interest in Iago Apas, Sergi Canos, Alberto and others.
Ward is actually a sports scientist who in the past worked for the Portuguese football federation monitoring their talent pool. His role at City involved helping to set up their talent identification and monitoring system.
He is another with links to Liverpool – having graduated from John Moores university in 2002 – and Northern Ireland where he attended the University of Ulster from 2005 to 2008. He has previously held positions at Prozone and The Football Association.

 

[juniormember]

I don't think I'm allowed to comment on him after the abuse I took at the end of the summer (from the 'you have to see him in a red shirt brigade) for saying it looked like a crazy signing.

It's hard to figure out where we'll go next with signings.

Borini and Allen - clearly Rodgers himself is behind spotting those. They are run of the mill, average manager bad signings.

Coutinho and Sturridge - yay. I think yesterday showed the importance of the pair. We need to get back to whatever mindset we were in when we signed this pair.

Because last summers additions ..... Alberto and Ilori are signings that rarely work for us. They're works in progress that need games, and we never risk giving them games. They're pointless signings.

Sakho I can't make my mind up on but he simply has to play. We've had long enough to see the Skrtel Agger partnership to know that we were foolish not to take the offers on the table a year ago.

I'd love to know who scouted Aspas. None of that scouts recommendations should be followed

I just can't work out why we didn't loan Ilori out straight away when we decided to keep 4 international centre backs in the squad.
I thought he might have been brought in and kept in Liverpool to cover the fullback positions, but that's not been the case.
Alberto I can understand keeping, in the sense that he's supposed to be Coutinho's cover. Yet he doesn't get to start a game Coutinho doesn't play in. Makes absolutely no sense for a 7m pound player.

 

[Tal]

If I owned or ran a club I'd have the manager in front of me every few months explaining exactly why 'investments' made by the club had never played, or played a few then disappeared. I'd also insist on seeing a plan for each player's contribution to the club for the next 12 months, including forecasts on the sale price and when, and why that sale ought to be considered.

Maybe this type of thing already exists at clubs.

 

[Rosco]

But when you start to hold a manager to account you inevitably get the leaks to the media about the board interfering in football matters.

And then the fans go crazy.

 

[kingjulian]

Agger and Sakho are too good/valuable to sit on the bench for a club in our position.
We need to sell Agger and Reina sharply and reinvest in midfield. At their age we only lose out if we don't play them.
Song + Menez for example. I'm not saying exactly those two, but that is the type of signing we should be making.

 

[tony]

Julian Ward
Ward is the club’s regional scouting manager for Portugal and Spain, another who was appointed in autumn 2012 from Man City. He has been scouting LFC target Luis Alberto and seems to be an important figure given Liverpool’s current interest in Iago Apas, Sergi Canos, Alberto and others.
Ward is actually a sports scientist who in the past worked for the Portuguese football federation monitoring their talent pool. His role at City involved helping to set up their talent identification and monitoring system.
He is another with links to Liverpool – having graduated from John Moores university in 2002 – and Northern Ireland where he attended the University of Ulster from 2005 to 2008. He has previously held positions at Prozone and The Football Association.

Jobs for the boys eh - Barry Hunter chief scout another northern irishman with a pretty unimpressive cv

 

[kingjulian]

Oh and the worst thing about our summer spend is that we put ourselves in a position where we are forced to chop and change the back line. I can't think of one instance that has worked out well for a club, no matter how good the players that get churned in and out of the playing eleven are.

 

[Spionkop69]

At least we didn't sign Fellaini!

 

[Tal]

But when you start to hold a manager to account you inevitably get the leaks to the media about the board interfering in football matters.

And then the fans go crazy.

That's so easily overcome as to be a laughable situation really; the club executive have asked, on the fans behalf, why manager X has spent £xm on players who have done nothing at all. The executive are duty bound to do such things to safeguard against the manager wasting all the fans' money with nothing to show for it.

The alternative is stick up ticket prices massively on the grounds that the fans are happy to let the manager run riot with the chequebook with no scrutiny, so hand over the cash, suckers...

 

[King Binny]

Brendan Rodgers's signings in spotlight again following defeat at Hull City By Chris Bascombe
[article=http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/liverpool/10489838/Liverpool-manager-Brendan-Rodgerss-signings-in-spotlight-again-following-defeat-at-Hull-City.html]
Despite their defeat at Hull City on Sunday, it has emerged that Liverpool have preserved what is becoming a permanent top-four spot. Not because they remain in the Champions League positions of the Premier League, but courtesy of the just-published table of agents’ fees.

The Merseyside club paid £9.4 million to agents between October 2012 and Sept 30, 2013 - the fourth highest in the country - but the stark admission from manager Brendan Rodgers about the depth of his squad in the absence of Daniel Sturridge and Philippe Coutinho at the KC Stadium raised questions again as to whether Liverpool have been getting enough bang for their buck.

There were eight new arrivals at Anfield last summer, at a combined cost of £43 million. Only goalkeeper Simon Mignolet is a certain starter for Norwich City’s visit on Wednesday, prompting a wave of cynicism as to whether other signings are worthy of the adjective ‘Comolli-esque’.

Some, such as midfielder Luis Alberto and centre-half Tiago Ilori, are considered ‘for the future’. Others such as Mamadou Sakho have international pedigree but cannot get into the side, while the likes of Iago Aspas and loanees Victor Moses and Aly Cissokho have failed to impress.

Not for the first time in his Anfield reign, Rodgers found himself in a politically vulnerable position when asked about the rationale behind a series of deals that swelled the squad at considerable expense, but failed to provide enough of the high-class, first-team players the club need to have any hope of sustaining a top-four challenge.

It was nigh on impossible for Rodgers to offer an answer given he cannot be held wholly responsible for all these purchases. Despite the claims when he joined that he would engineer the club’s buying and selling activity, it has become evident that he is a member of the ‘transfer committee’ rather than its chairman.

Rodgers is working alongside rather than commanding the head of recruitment Dave Fallows, chief scout Barry Hunter, analyst Michael Edwards and managing director Ian Ayre. It has created an environment where supporters and reporters alike play a form of ‘transfer bingo’ following each new arrival. “Did the manager sign him or the committee?”

As Rodgers is part of the committee, Liverpool can always answer ‘both’ but it does create an impression the manager was required to compromise his immediate needs last summer for the long-term strategy.

When asked why Liverpool signed young centre-half Ilori from Sporting Lisbon for around £4 million, Rodgers admitted: “Hopefully in the future, maybe long after I am gone, he can prove to be a talent. That is the responsibility of myself and the club going forward to nurture it.”

In the same breath, Rodgers added: “You have to focus very much on the here and now, as well as having one eye on the future.”

Liverpool can justify the introduction of the committee’s checks and balance system since the traditional policy of letting the manager have who he wants was not working, either. Rodgers’ first two major signings, for a combined £26 million, were Joe Allen and Fabio Borini, whom he knew from Swansea. As with last summer’s deal, they absorbed plenty of cost for little return.

Owners Fenway Sports Group considered it essential to prevent a repetition of the errors of previous regimes, where the manager was granted too much control and too often delivered mediocre players via the same agents (although given the weekend revelations, one of the early promises to significantly reduce spiraling agents fees still needs to be addressed).

When Sturridge and Coutinho were signed 11 months ago, the new transfer system appeared to have yielded instant results.

Last summer’s activity and the acknowledgement the squad remain short of quality inevitably prompts more scrutiny.

Rodgers made it known publicly on several occasions that he wanted a No 10, but when Henrikh Mkhitaryan decided to go to Borussia Dortmund, Willian took a detour to Chelsea via White Hart Lane and Diego Costa renewed his contract at Atlético Madrid, the club instead found themselves signing Moses.

“There were areas that needed improving,” said Rodgers. “There is no doubt that we wanted to bring in other players who could have really helped us. But for whatever reason, they didn’t come in.

“We all recognise we wanted to get in one or two more starters, which didn’t materialise. A lot of work went into it. What is the case is we are not in a position to spend money for the sake of it. We are trying to build for the future with a sense of the present, to strengthen where we can. You can only do that if you can bring in players who will enhance the team, or you just stockpile players.”

Liverpool’s most expensive signing last summer was Sakho, but with Kolo Touré already signed on a free transfer to join Martin Skrtel and Daniel Agger, it seemed the club had spent £17 million on a player they did not really need.

This January, Rodgers has made it known he wants first-team rather than squad players.
It was the former Liverpool manager Rafa Benítez who once famously said about his club’s transfer policy (while still at Valencia): “I asked for a sofa and they bought me a lampshade.” If the squad players fail to keep Liverpool in the Champions League places during Sturridge’s two-month absence, one can imagine Rodgers offering a similar lament.[/article]

Chris Bascombe seems to be stressing that its not entirely down to Rodgers.

 

[tony]

Chris Bascombe seems to be stressing that its not entirely down to Rodgers.

Except Fallows and Hunter are his men - old mates. Bit disingenuous to distance himself from the crap signings in the summer. Maybe he has been reading the forums!

 

[Best Believe It]

Bascombe is essentially saying that the transfer committee is a bit of a nonsense.

 

[King Binny]

Echo's James Pearce also mentioning the committee yesterday

[article=http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/rodgers-defends-50m-summer-signings-6363893]Brendan Rodgers has defended Liverpool FC ’s summer transfer dealings – insisting the club had a duty to invest in the long-term future.

The Anfield boss bemoaned the lack of depth in his squad after both Daniel Sturridge and Philippe Coutinho were absent from the starting line up for Sunday’s 3-1 defeat to Hull City, which raised serious questions about the Reds' ability to sustain a challenge for a Champions League spot.

Rodgers signed eight players in the last transfer window at a combined cost of nearly £50million. However, only Simon Mignolet and Kolo Toure have made any kind of significant contribution so far – sparking a debate about whether funds were spent in the right areas.

Having tried and failed to land marquee signings such as Henrikh Mkhitaryan, Diego Costa and Willian, Rodgers says Liverpool had to spend a large chunk of their cash on less established players who will need time to blossom.

“It was about the players who were affordable and available,” he said.

“We tried to get a host of players in and get the types who could improve us. At the same time we knew we had some who were going and had to replace the likes of Jonjo Shelvey so we needed to bring in ones who would give us cover. We all recognise we wanted to get in one or two more starters, which didn’t materialise.

“If you’re not getting ones in because they decided to go somewhere else or they weren’t available then it’s a Catch 22. We knew we were still going to lose some players and had to bring in ones to offer that cover and they were the ones who were affordable to the club.

“A lot of work went into looking to improve it. We are not in a position to spend money for the sake of it.

“We are always trying to build for the future with a sense of the present which is to strengthen where we can. You can only do that if you can bring in players who will enhance the team or you just stockpile players.”

Iago Aspas, Luis Alberto and Tiago Ilori cost a combined total of £22million but the trio have started just five matches between them this season.

Mamadou Sakho, who cost £15million from Paris Saint-Germain, has also failed to nail down a place.

Fellow centre-back Ilori, who arrived from Sporting Lisbon, has yet to make his Reds debut and the 20-year-old is likely to be sent out on loan in the new year.

Rodgers denies that Liverpool would have been better off holding on to that money until the January window opens.

“There were areas that needed improving. There is no doubt that we wanted to bring in other players who could have really helped us but, for whatever reason, they didn’t come in,” Rodgers said.

“These are players that were brought in to be cover players and develop here before they eventually became first team players.

“Signing Ilori was about looking after the future of the club. Centre-halves are very hard to get.

“I know as well as anyone, especially working with young players, that they need time in that area. He was one that became available. He wasn’t overly-priced.

“I see the price that is quoted (£7million) and it is nowhere near the mark to be honest. He has come in, he will have six months to adapt and then he will go out and get experience.

“Hopefully in the future, maybe long after I am gone, he can prove to be a talent. That is the responsibility of myself and the club going forward to nurture it.

“Of course I have to focus very much on the here and now, but I always have to respect the club and have one eye on the future.”

In admitting Liverpool “couldn’t cope” without both Sturridge and Coutinho, Rodgers says that he was merely making the point that the Reds don’t have the same kind of attacking options as some of their rivals for the Champions League spots.

He said: “It’s more about putting it in context when you compare squads, not on money spent.

“For example if you look at Chelsea’s squad, it’s hard to agree what’s the A team and the B team, probably with Man City too.

“The point was only made in terms of our expectations are the same as that but we don’t have that type of depth. There’s no hiding from the fact we spent money to get players in and now they will be getting the chance to perform.”

Rodgers has his eye on reinforcements in the January transfer window and insists he's in “regular communication” with owners John Henry and Tom Werner about what's required.

A year ago the double swoop for Sturridge and Coutinho instantly improved his side and the manager wants another injection of similar quality.

To land his targets Rodgers must secure the agreement of the club's transfer committee which also consists of managing director Ian Ayre, head of recruitment Dave Fallows and head of analysis Michael Edwards. The boss says he has no complaints about working in such a structure.

“Listen, I am privileged to be here and I know the conditions that I have to work in,” he added.

“We are trying to grow something here and develop it. We are not going to be in a position to improve it all ways straight away.

“The only frustration comes after performances and results like against Hull. That is the challenge of us trying to grow this thing here and develop it all the time.

“I will work within the constraints of the club and do the job the best that I can.

“I have regular communication with the owners so it's not a case of sitting down. We will always look to improve the team in the windows.

“It is always evolving. What we can’t afford to do is to spend for the sake of it. If the money is there and the right player is available, I have no doubts the owners would spend that money.

“It has to be one that can come in and help us. We saw last January with the two boys who came in and helped the team straight away - there was no hesitation with that.

“It was something that they did. If that can be the case in January again, that would be brilliant for us. We want to keep improving.”[/article]

 

[Rosco]

A power hungry, egotistical manager who wants to blame everyone else when the shit hits the fan ?

Great, this will end well

 

[King Binny]

On a sidenote, just realised Michael Edwards, who's in the committee was brought in by Comolli from Tottenham.

[article=http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/premier-league-liverpool-brendan-rodgers-869656#ixzz2mP0Hv52Y ]Current head of analytics Michael Edwards will be given a far greater role to produce statistical information on Liverpool’s current players and those they are looking to sign.

While Rodgers is seen as the Billy Beane of Liverpool’s ‘Moneyball’ set up, Edwards is very much viewed as the club’s equivalent to Paul DePodesta, who supplied Beane with his statistical information.[/article]

 

[Rosco]

And just so there's actually no doubt, even though clearly Rodgers is briefing otherwise, here's his comments from May:

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/spor.../liverpool-fc-manager-brendan-rodgers-3572303

BRENDAN RODGERS insists he will have the final word on all transfers at Liverpool FC this summer.

The Reds boss has dismissed suggestions that he’s only part of a recruitment team who will make decisions by committee.

In the absence of a director of football, Dave Fallows (head of recruitment), Barry Hunter (chief scout) and Michael Edwards (head of analysis) are also key figures when it comes to assessing targets for owners Fenway Sports Group.

But Rodgers says the work of that trio makes his life easier and the manager retains full control over any potential signings as he looks to strengthen his squad.

“There is absolutely no way a player will come in here if I don’t want him,” Rodgers said.

“I will always be the first person it comes to. That’s not being arrogant, that’s how we operate here and how it works in this country.

“Abroad it works differently where you have a coach and the club will bring in the players. The coach then works with the players he’s given.

“A lot has been made of it but the fact is the process that happens here is no different to what happens at other English clubs.

“We have a number of people, scouting staff and analysts, who will look for targets who fit the profile of the players that we want.

“Then I will sit down with those guys, look at those targets and make a shortlist from that.

“All that work that goes on is of great help to me. We identify players, gather all the information we possibly can and then if they’re right for what we need it comes down to whether they are affordable and available.

“I know the club will go and do the best it can to get the players we want. But it’s very clear that anyone we sign will be because I want him here.”

 

[the_khl]

So what he is saying is that he actually was the one choosing Alberto over Eriksen then?

*losing faith in Rodgers ability to scout talent with the pace of a Japanese bullet train*

 

[hmmmmm1]

A power hungry, egotistical manager who wants to blame everyone else when the shit hits the fan ?

Great, this will end well

Surely, every manager is like this?