Robbie Fowler (in his prime) vs Luis Suarez

[gkmacca]

Often when I hear Robbie's ex-teammates talk about him they say how great he was in training, which for me misses the point. I'm sure in training he could finish at will, but it wasn't like that in games. He had some glorious spells and some so-so times, but he certainly never even threatened to realise his potential. Suarez, on the other hand, is much fitter, more versatile and driven, and he's well on his way to realising his potential. He'll need to replicate this form next season and beyond, but at the moment he looks clearly ahead.

 

[Wizardry]

It's worth remembering that Fowler's technique, touch and general play was outrageously good. He was an artist in the way he could move the ball - different to Suarez who tries the utterly bewildering on a regular basis - but amazing none-the-less. I know Suarez is scary good with his ability on the ball and his nutmeg success rate has to be a world record that will stand forever. That said, for all the attention his nutmeg's bring, he loses the ball an awful lot when dribbling and trying to beat players. We remember the successful ones cause they're spectacular but he fails at a lot more. Robbie never beat as many players as Luis but he never tried to either - he used his outrageous touch and skill in a different way.

What sets Luis apart from him, IMO, is two things; his junk yard dog tenacity and his vision.

1. For all his talent Robbie never really got as much out of it as he should have done. If I was being unkind I would say that it was as important to him to look good as it was to be good. A more gentle approach would be to say that he just never had the work ethic, the will to roll up his sleeves and do the hard work that Suarez demonstrates almost constantly. I imagine that this is probably something to do with their upbringing - Suarez has had to fight for everything since he was a child and that serves him well now.

2. I think the vision thing is related to the tenacity. Suarez wants to win at all costs - we've seen the despised side of this but we also see the admirable. Like any striker he wants to score but he's desperate for his team to win and he'll sacrifice himself if that's what it takes. For that reason he's always looking for a way to score and if that means using a team mate to do it then that's the way it is. Robbie, for all his ability, was focused on him scoring for the team rather than the team scoring. That vision for Suarez makes him special and, in some ways, unplayable.

 

[Judge Jules]

Right so the fact that Suarez will score MORE GOALS than fowler ever did in a single season, will still mean he's a poorer finisher?

Suarez is equally capable at finishing and is a far better all round footballer on top of that, to me.

Fowler was great, suarez is exceptional

This. Anyone saying Robbie was a "better" finisher than Suarez must think there are specific aspects of the art of finishing which Robbie was better at than Suarez. Sorry but I think that's just wrong.

 

[Mamma Mia]

Two gifted footballers capable of the sublime.

If Robbie had worked 5 times harder, it would be a close contest.

 

[keniget]

Whenever these questions come up I can't help but think that as the game moves on and progresses players have to be that much fitter and quicker physically and mentally, which makes it harder to shine. Is it just me?

Perhaps watching older videos on YouTube and what not doesn't do the game justice back then but it does seem as though players had more time and space and that becomes more apparent the further you go back.

Of course the counter-argument is worse pitches, heavier balls, tougher challenges and so forth though you probably have to go back a bit further than 15-20 years for these to apply properly.

The difficulty for me is always trying to establish is if the talent a player showed back then would've translated in the same way or given how things have changed, would they not stand out quite as much.

 

[LeTallecWiz]

Right so the fact that Suarez will score MORE GOALS than fowler ever did in a single season, will still mean he's a poorer finisher?

There's holes with this logic ... but alas, I can't be bothered.

You're getting so defensive as if people don't like Suarez here, or don't think he's a better player than Fowler was ... Chill out.

 

[peterhague]

Whenever these questions come up I can't help but think that as the game moves on and progresses players have to be that much fitter and quicker physically and mentally, which makes it harder to shine. Is it just me?

Perhaps watching older videos on YouTube and what not doesn't do the game justice back then but it does seem as though players had more time and space and that becomes more apparent the further you go back.

Of course the counter-argument is worse pitches, heavier balls, tougher challenges and so forth though you probably have to go back a bit further than 15-20 years for these to apply properly.

The difficulty for me is always trying to establish is if the talent a player showed back then would've translated in the same way or given how things have changed, would they not stand out quite as much.

Personally I always just compare their statuses on the world stage. Suarez is now considered one of the top 5 players in the world. Can anyone seriously say Fowler was even close to that level? He never really even got in the England team.

The changes you're talking about you'd tend to think would apply to both attackers and defenders - they're all fitter, they all move quicker, and attackers benefit from their defenders' pressing as much as they're harmed by their opponents' pressing. Perhaps not all players would have fared equally well under the same conditions, but I'm not sure how you'd predict which ones.

 

[HC]

There's holes with this logic ... but alas, I can't be bothered.

You're getting so defensive as if people don't like Suarez here, or don't think he's a better player than Fowler was ... Chill out.

I'm not at all. It just doesn't really make sense to suggest fowler is a better 'finisher' when all of the statistics this season suggest otherwise (or will do soon enough, even with missing 6 games!)

 

[LeTallecWiz]

I'm not at all. It just doesn't really make sense to suggest fowler is a better 'finisher' when all of the statistics this season suggest otherwise (or will do soon enough, even with missing 6 games!)

One season doth make the man?

 

[hamstrung_pigeon]

I've always hated that tag. Since someone on the TV once said it about Fowler, followed by everyone else in the media, it's the stock phrase that gets rolled out by everyone when ever discussing him. It's just lazy. It makes me walk off from people mid sentence, the beginning of this sentence is always a very close variation of 'Well Fowler, he was possibly the most natural goalscorer I've ever...' but I don't hear any more than that coz I've gone and looked for someone who can think for themselves.

Did you say "natural"?

 

[Red Astaire]

I really enjoyed that. Thanks @studsup - Fowler will always be my favourite ever Liverpool player. The day he re-signed was one of the happiest LFC days in my life. I remember that 0-5 Fulham game as well. I didn't see it but read about it in the paper the next day. I was hooked. All 5 goals by a 17 yr old. Beautiful.

As for comparing him with Suarez - What's the point? Two legends and I fucking love the pair of them.

 

[Mystic]

Suarez doesn't really miss that many anymore does he?

 

[LeTallecWiz]

I really enjoyed that. Thanks @studsup - Fowler will always be my favourite ever Liverpool player. The day he re-signed was one of the happiest LFC days in my life. I remember that 0-5 Fulham game as well. I didn't see it but read about it in the paper the next day. I was hooked. All 5 goals by a 17 yr old. Beautiful.

As for comparing him with Suarez - What's the point? Two legends and I fucking love the pair of them.

Yup - He was my first Liverpool hero. Was in boarding school in England when he broke through and that was it for me really ... Haven't loved a player that much since then (though Suarez is starting to make me rethink that stance!).

I loved how he came back, and how he scored goal after goal despite being so out of shape ...

Both are legends. Sadly, only one will lift a Premier League trophy.

 

[gkmacca]

I'd love to know how good Roger Hunt was. I grew up with people raving about him but there don't seem to be many clips of him playing.

 

[juniormember]

Right so the fact that Suarez will score MORE GOALS than fowler ever did in a single season, will still mean he's a poorer finisher?

Suarez is equally capable at finishing and is a far better all round footballer on top of that, to me.

Fowler was great, suarez is exceptional

That's not taking into account how incredible Suarez is at getting those chances on his own or via his teammates.
We're not talking about who scored more goals. Otherwise Kevin Phillips would be considered superior to the likes of Fowler and Torres in their prime.
Fowler was simply incredible with his shooting. Suarez had a pretty mediocre shooting accuracy for a season and a half (which he could get away with simply because of his brilliance at constantly creating chances after chances for himself), then suddenly started getting God-like with his accuracy this season.
Better player? Suarez, easily.
Better finisher? LFC career-wise, Fowler.
If Suarez has another season like this over the next year, the title will belong to Suarez.
Not so cut and dry right now.

 

[LeTallecWiz]

I want to like that video again @studsup - fuck I miss watching that kid play. What a legend ...

 

[Mors]

Fowler was better at getting the ball into the net given the chance, but that's where it ends in terms of footballing ability, suarez is better on pretty much every other single aspect. But, fowler is god, and the better man.

 

[gkmacca]

It's Fowler's house - we just live in it.

 

[gene hughes]

Suarez

 

[gkmacca]

Bless you.

 

[Wilko7]

I'd love to know how good Roger Hunt was. I grew up with people raving about him but there don't seem to be many clips of him playing.

I think there's a you tube skills clip of him with accompanying big band music.

 

[Wizardry]

I'd love to know how good Roger Hunt was. I grew up with people raving about him but there don't seem to be many clips of him playing.

Yeah, likewise - and for the same reasons.

My old man reckons he's as good as it gets. He thought Fowler was terrific mind but he reckons Hunt could do anything. Would love to see more on him.

 

[Glock21]

Suarez done it at club and international level. Fowler didn't. Suarez still has few more years ahead of him and with his versatility he will score a lot more.

 

[hamstrung_pigeon]

Did you say "natural"?

Okay LTW - now you can like me once more like you said you would.

 

[Judge Jules]

Yeah, likewise - and for the same reasons.

My old man reckons he's as good as it gets. He thought Fowler was terrific mind but he reckons Hunt could do anything. Would love to see more on him.

Cue the fossil. 😎

Sir Roger was a terrific all-rounder. I couldn't tell you which foot he preferred, and he was just as good with his head. He was also strong enough to shrug off heavy punishment (forwards then had to take way more stick than defenders would get away with now) and had a magnificent disciplinary record. He could perhaps have done with a little more pace but most of the time his anticipation made up for that, alongside the fact that he had Cally and Peter Thompson on either wing serving chances up for him.

Incidentally, I wouldn't select either Robbie or Sir Roger for the no.9 shirt in the All-Time XI. If I'm picking the team Rushie gets the nod there.

 

[Wizardry]

Still my favorite striker. Loved Robbie but Rushie was just a freak.

 

[Molbystwin]

I would say that God probably knew (to a half inch) where the goal was (ie. at all times), and consequently the side-netting he loved to find, better than any other player I've seen, even when back to goal or under pressure. Suarez has almost as good awareness of that but he has substantially more ability to be able to threaten it, and that combined with hitting his prime has resulted in some sensational shooting over the last year or so.

I think what people may miss is that Fowler was basically robbed of his absolute peak years by injury, we never got to see an uninjured 26,27,28 year old Fowler. He was robbed of that by injury.

You can argue either way about Nostalgia or indeed do we tend to over-rate the present.

I really don't know who is the "better" of the two, after this seasons glorious stuff you might probably say Suarez but Fowler was fucking sensational even as a kid...I just remembered thinking that he never fucking missed... for about 2 years.... I'm just feel genuinely lucky that we've had both of them in our Colours.... Both are heros.

If we want to try and think dispassionately about it Torres and Owen were fucking unbelievable as well for a good while...

In short it's fucking great supporting LFC.

 

[mark1975]

Suarez, naturally.

Let's face it though, we're talking about two prodigious, but very different types of attacker.

 

[mom]

Luis.

 

[FMSPWR]

Personally I always just compare their statuses on the world stage. Suarez is now considered one of the top 5 players in the world. Can anyone seriously say Fowler was even close to that level? He never really even got in the England team.

Shearer was always the first name on the England team sheet regardless of his form. Before Euro 96 he went ages without scoring yet kept his place in the side and admittedly did come good in the tournament. Fowler was never given a proper run and of course a few years later Michael Owen would come along and inherit the mantle from Shearer.

I maintain Fowler would have been one of the World greats if:

a) He personally had more discipline.
b) He played under a manager (Hate to say it) like Ferguson who didn't tolerate prima donnas/spice boys and was INCREDIBLY protective of his young players.
c) Never suffered any serious injuries