Rafa speaks

[peterhague]

But it's Ross that needs help..?!?!

Cracks me up how somebody who says "The bloke's entitled to the money, but let's not pretend that ALL he cares about is the club when he take $6m to go to a job he's already been given, with a salary of approx $8m per year awaiting him and already a multi-millionaire" is deemed the lunatic in this argument... He's NOT all about LFC. He's all about Rafa. Anybody who cannot see this is a blinkered as they paint those who argue the point.

But all that's really saying is he's human, imperfect. Is there anyone serious, including Rafa, who's ever claimed otherwise?

It's all just tilting at windmills. And Ross goes waaay further than you suggest, btw, regularly labelling him a cunt etc for 'screwing' the club. It's not a moderate opinion, *at all*.

 

[Holle]

6 million pounds in his bag + this:

+ Peter Crouch on the wing.

He can bleed for the city as long as he wants. I remember to this day how glad I was when he was gone.

 

[Whaddapie]

But all that's really saying is he's human, imperfect. Is there anyone serious, including Rafa, who's ever claimed otherwise?

It's all just tilting at windmills. And Ross goes waaay further than you suggest, btw, regularly labelling him a cunt etc for 'screwing' the club. It's not a moderate opinion, *at all*.

You say human. I say "phony".

I appreciate all the good that he did for LFC. He WAS great, once. But his cannonisation by many since his departure is as narrow-minded as Ross is accused of being. I do not think him a cunt. But I do think he hurt us at the end, in more ways than one. In ways that somebody who "would do ANYTHING" for the club would not do.

 

[peterhague]

'Peter Crouch on the wing' how many times did that happen, fucking once or something?! It's a fucking ridiculous thing to focus on after 6 years in the job. Most managers make the occasional bizarre decision, but you need a sense of proportion, surely?

 

[tony]

But all that's really saying is he's human, imperfect. Is there anyone serious, including Rafa, who's ever claimed otherwise?

It's all just tilting at windmills. And Ross goes waaay further than you suggest, btw, regularly labelling him a cunt etc for 'screwing' the club. It's not a moderate opinion, *at all*.

Agreed Pete. And what about Pellegrino, fitness coach, goalkeeping coach etc etc who are included in the severence figure, Benitez would have been entitled to £16 on his own if he stuck to his guns. Why would you expect him to go for nothing from a job that he so obviously valued. As usual the truth is not black or white but a muddy greyish colour.

 

[Spionkop69]

But all that's really saying is he's human, imperfect. Is there anyone serious, including Rafa, who's ever claimed otherwise?

It's all just tilting at windmills. And Ross goes waaay further than you suggest, btw, regularly labelling him a cunt etc for 'screwing' the club. It's not a moderate opinion, *at all*.

Not to mention painting anyone who doesn't share his "moderate" opinion as a simpleton.

 

[Holle]

I don't know how often it happened. I remember it once, which is enough.

 

[Judge Jules]

You say human. I say "phony".

I appreciate all the good that he did for LFC. He WAS great, once. But his cannonisation by many since his departure is as narrow-minded as Ross is accused of being. I do not think him a cunt. But I do think he hurt us at the end, in more ways than one. In ways that somebody who "would do ANYTHING" for the club would not do.

I strongly disagree, old pal. As I've acknowledged above, it was IMO definitely time for him to leave when he did, but I don't believe that as manager he did anything other than that which he believed, however wrongly in some cases, would be the right thing for the club. Some of the revisionism about him has been overdone, but as much as anything that's been a reaction to Ross' frankly extraordinary vendetta, especially over the severance payoff, about which I cannot for the life of me see what else Rafa's supposed to have done.

 

[peterhague]

You say human. I say "phony".

I appreciate all the good that he did for LFC. He WAS great, once. But his cannonisation by many since his departure is as narrow-minded as Ross is accused of being. I do not think him a cunt. But I do think he hurt us at the end, in more ways than one. In ways that somebody who "would do ANYTHING" for the club would not do.

What makes him phoney? In a way that say, Houllier, is not, for also claiming feelings for the club and city and then taking a generous severance package?

And again, I think very few serious people really think he'd 'do anything' for the club. I certainly don't. That's just silly. But even if some do think that, that's hardly Rafa's fault, because I don't think he ever claimed that he would.

 

[Whaddapie]

He "loved" LFC soooooooo much, that, as a multi-millionaire already, and having been paid approx $20m by us for the past 5 years, and having already secured another multi-year, $6m per year contract, he took another $6m that he didn't need, to leave us. All this, while KNOWING the dire financial straits that were in, and would be in as a result of the $6m payout.

Now, the fact that he was entitled to this $6m is irrelevant to my point. If he loved us like he claimed to, he wouldn't have taken it. He didn't need it. We did. Simple. And yes, I know that I'm niave and unrealistic and all of those words... But I only hold him to the standards that I hold myself. In his position, I would not have taken that $6m. Because I do love LFC and I didn't need it.

In my opinion, you can't do both. Take the money, by all means. But don't tell us how much you bleed for LFC. Or, refuse the payout that you don't need. Then I'll believe you.

 

[Spionkop69]

But it's Ross that needs help..?!?!

Cracks me up how somebody who says "The bloke's entitled to the money, but let's not pretend that ALL he cares about is the club when he take $6m to go to a job he's already been given, with a salary of approx $8m per year awaiting him and already a multi-millionaire" is deemed the lunatic in this argument... He's NOT all about LFC. He's all about Rafa. Anybody who cannot see this is a blinkered as they paint those who argue the point.

Derek, you're missing the point. Where are all the people here leading for Rafa to be canonised? I think you'll find that the main people who you view as supporting him are actually trying to stop him being demonised by extremists such as Ross. That's certainly my position.

As someone else has said, there are extreme viewpoints from canonisation to demonisation. The truh lies somewhere in the middle surely?

 

[Whaddapie]

Not to mention painting anyone who doesn't share his "moderate" opinion as a simpleton.

He's used terms that I would not have used, yes. But, at least in part, he's only reacting to some who, while using different phrases, are just as blind to his points - and he does have some - as he is to theirs.

 

[Whaddapie]

Derek, you're missing the point. Where are all the people here leading for Rafa to be canonised? I think you'll find that the main people who you view as supporting him are actually trying to stop him being demonised by extremists such as Ross. That's certainly my position.

As someone else has said, there are extreme viewpoints from canonisation to demonisation. The truh lies somewhere in the middle surely?

I agree with that John.

My stance is that he deserves eternal credit for what he did for us, for the glory that he brought us. But he also deserves critisism for the errors that were made, which also cost us glory... And the former seems to eliminate the latter in the views of many here. And that's what I argue.

 

[Modo]

Rafa made some bizarre decisions and regrettably I also wanted him gone.
Looking back I think most of us were a bit spoiled. I actually thought that it wouldn't be too hard to find another manager who could carry on like Rafa and improve the team.
I never expected a free fall towards mediocrity, but here we are.

Supporting the club has never been as hard for me as it is now, but I'm still hanging on 'cause we still have a great core of players and some future stars like Suso, Sterling and Shelvey, thanks to Rafa.
I sincerely think Rodgers will turn things around, but it'll take time.

 

[gkmacca]

I think the money issue is a bit contentious, as there was so much suspicion about what G and H were doing with it at the time. When many fans were even against buying merchandise on the grounds that the money was being diverted elsewhere, I doubt Benitez thought if he'd passed on his payout the money would have been kept for good works within the club.

 

[Whaddapie]

I think the money issue is a bit contentious, as there was so much suspicion about what G and H were doing with it at the time. When many fans were even against buying merchandise on the grounds that the money was being diverted elsewhere, I doubt Benitez thought if he'd passed on his payout the money would have been kept for good works within the club.

I can see that aspect of it, Macca. Fair point, But, even with that, LFC, already on the brink of brink of bankruptcy, would have been $6m better off. And that's what I keep coming back to...

 

[peterhague]

I think the money issue is a bit contentious, as there was so much suspicion about what G and H were doing with it at the time. When many fans were even against buying merchandise on the grounds that the money was being diverted elsewhere, I doubt Benitez thought if he'd passed on his payout the money would have been kept for good works within the club.

Well, exactly. Even if in principle he'd have liked to decline a pay-off, he was surely never going to do so in order to help people who'd made his life, and the lives of thousands of supporters, a misery.

The argument's a fucking nonsense on so many levels.

 

[Whaddapie]

Well, exactly. Even if in principle he'd have liked to decline a pay-off, he was surely never going to do so in order to help people who'd made his life, and the lives of thousands of supporters, a misery.

The argument's a fucking nonsense on so many levels.

No it isn't, Peter. Just 'cos you disagree, that doesn't render it fucking nonsense... This is EXACTLY the attitude that Ross is taking flak for.

 

[red_maradona]

Rafa needs to move on Big Time. His love for LFC is clouding his judgement. Sadly there is a reason why top clubs are not falling over themselves to sign him.

 

[peterhague]

No it isn't, Peter. Just 'cos you disagree, that doesn't render it fucking nonsense... This is EXACTLY the attitude that Ross is taking flak for.

But I and others have explained *why* it's nonsense, it's not like I'm just blindly asserting it. You never answered the point about Houllier, btw. Is he a phoney for claiming a love for the club and also accepting a severance package?

 

[Whaddapie]

Ged doesn't pretend that he's obsessed with us, the way Rafa does. And, for that reason, amoung others, I firmly belive that he's more "one of us" than Rafa ever was.

And I say again, it's not nonsense. You just disagree. The facts that I have presented are verified. We have come to different conclusions regarding them...

 

[gkmacca]

I can see that aspect of it, Macca. Fair point, But, even with that, LFC, already on the brink of brink of bankruptcy, would have been $6m better off. And that's what I keep coming back to...

Yes, fair enough.

 

[Richey]

I wouldn't be as critical as some regarding Benitez taking his payout. He probably felt that he had been treated unfairly and had earned the money!

I would be critical of him as a manager and I have been before, so not really much point going over it again.

I hope he gets another job again soon and stops going on about Liverpool every chance he gets.

 

[localny]

I don't know how often it happened. I remember it once, which is enough.

it's not really. It's missing the point by about six years minus one day mate.

 

[Red Mullet]

Ged doesn't pretend that he's obsessed with us, the way Rafa does. And, for that reason, amoung others, I firmly belive that he's more "one of us" than Rafa ever was.

And I say again, it's not nonsense. You just disagree. The facts that I have presented are verified. We have come to different conclusions regarding them...

How does Kenny fit in all this? He clearly loves the club and has essentially admitted it but he also took his severance pay.

 

[Hyena]

But I only hold him to the standards that I hold myself. In his position, I would not have taken that $6m. Because I do love LFC and I didn't need it.

Really??

You would have refused to take a YEAR's worth of salary from the people who just SACKED you just because you love LFC?

 

[Whaddapie]

Really??

You would have refused to take a YEAR's worth of salary from the people who just SACKED you just because you love LFC?

Yes.

 

[localny]

Ok, time to leave the thread lads. Can't debate Roffa any more. I must move forward...most focus on other threads, most resist Roffa temptation..

 

[Hyena]

Yes.

So seeing as we are in need of a bit of cash, what's stopping you from donating a year's worth of your salary to the club now?
Cause that's the same situation...

 

[peterhague]

Ged doesn't pretend that he's obsessed with us, the way Rafa does. And, for that reason, amoung others, I firmly belive that he's more "one of us" than Rafa ever was.

And I say again, it's not nonsense. You just disagree. The facts that I have presented are verified. We have come to different conclusions regarding them...

Does Rafa pretend he's obsessed with us?!?! Sounds like quite a leap you're making there. What part of Houllier claiming love for us and accepting a payout was acceptable and yet not for Benitez?

And the fact that I disagree doesn't mean it can't also be nonsense! I, and others, have given many reasons why it is nonsense, so I think I'm entitled to close those arguments with a little flourish such as that - obviously it's still just my opinion!!