So for the record then, you're giving him no credit whatsoever, but dressing it up as credit. Great!
Rafa speaks
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So for the record then, you're giving him no credit whatsoever, but dressing it up as credit. Great!
Ross doesn't have evidence. He has a strong opinion that he paints as fact but anyone with an alternative opinion is painted as a fantasist.
Where Rafa's concerned its Ross' way or the highway!
I get that. That's simple even for a "spoon" like me. But it appears that Rafa knew his time was limited, as many people in senior positions do, before the seniors made their move.
So its hardly surprising he had a back up plan. So he got a new job, we didn't pay him £20m. That's a pretty good version of "mutual consent" in that it worked out for both parties.
You have heard of pragmatism/realism haven't you?
So you're criticizing your nemesis for saving the club 16m?
I'd leave it if I were you. We're mere simpletons when it comes to Rafa.
If he loved the club he would have just walked away and not screwed us over, he doesn't he loves himself.
And JM's maths isn't doing him any favours
Oh come one really? If you're really being serious and not trolling here, then I have to leave this. I am prepared to see alternative viewpoints despite being a "simpleton". Are you?
I might be quiffing as I am in a dash.
Forget what he has done or what he has not, or what a loony Machiavellian megalomaniac he isor not , he is, does anyone really think that any owners in their right mind are going to take Rafa on given his past history of confrontation and manipulating situations against club hierarchy, whether it is justified or not, he did it with the last three clubs he has been at , I am not even sure he wasn't at it before.
regards
Forget what he has done or what he has not, or what a loony Machiavellian megalomaniac he is
regards
All in your humble opinion. Except for the last sentence.
Oh I agree George.
Whoops, sorry Ross.
So you're saying he saved them 14m.
The shit you make up and state as facts on this matter is bordering on lunacy.
So you're saying he saved them 14m.
The shit you make up and state as facts on this matter is bordering on lunacy.
Fixed that for you. We might as well liken his behaviour to Benitez, I mean after all, he's trying to convince us the opposite of whatever Rafa does or says and is willing to ignore anything to the contrary - just like Benitez on occasion.
Ross the Machiavellian has a ring to it!
Ross I don't know where you garner your information ( is it the beano ) but as far as Rafa is concerned you most certainly either do make it up or are poorly informed.
Perhaps you should save your bile for Woy purported to have exited the club with a £7.8m payoff for his disastrous six month tenure
I honestly don't know why you've got such an obsession with this. The whole episode seems completely uncontroversial: two parties negotiated to get themselves the best deal they could and reached an acceptable compromise. Same when Houllier left, and nobody bangs on about that proving that he couldn't also love the club, nor did he make any less of a claim to do so than Rafa. You can have a certain amount of affection for something and still have other competing obligations and interests: I don't think he ever claimed absolute undying love such as a Kenny Dalglish feels, did he?
The whole argument is a complete red herring.
Taking your previously agreed severance package has nothing to do with sainthood. Donating a fair chunk of it to local charities, though; well, that does him no harm at all.
Trouble with that is Roy wasn't the only option. Kenny himself and Pellegrini were interested, and other names were also being bandied about. It's also easy now to forget how dire things were on the pitch by the time Rafa left, with the players pretty plainly naffed off (the most obvious example being that infamous video of Stevie and Torres when Rafa substituted the latter one day). I liked Rafa and IMO his account with LFC will come to be seen as standing clearly in credit overall, but it really was time for him to go.
Actually no I don't see him as a saint but I don't see him as a demon either, I would imagine the truth is somewhere inbetween as with most things. I do think he built the best team we have seen for some time, albeit fleetingly, and I can't imagine his achievements will be eclipsed by his successors for a very long time, which makes me sad as we were so close (2010 excepted). Fwiw I do think the credit crunch has as much to do with our decline as poor decision making by successive managers inc Rafa. I do believe he genuinely has an affinity for the club although the ship has sailed as far as coming back is concerned
Rafa achieved more than any manager in 20 years for us, we all know this. Any manager that takes *that team* to win the CL, deserves more credit than any other manager. He bought badly, he bought well, he sold badly, he sold well. It's the kind of checkered record any manager with a club for 6 years would have. On the balance it was positive, and the man clearly bleeds for the city.
Now Ross, can you go see a therapist or something
Now Ross, can you go see a therapist or something
I am only willing to post a fair analysis of Rafa, and even quiff about why he wasn't approached (see Vlad), IF redblack becomes a full time contributor on the site.
This is a good point. Also, they had to try out a new man having already dipped into the past with KD. Have you ever managed someone like Rafa, who doesn't want to be managed? Nightmare.
It surely depends how well they do. Shanks didn't want to be managed. Paisley didn't want to be managed. But they were surrounded by people who felt that such people didn't NEED (much) managing. The hard thing with Rafa is trying to consider how different, if at all, he'd be at a well-run club. Probably still pretty difficult, but tolerable if he did well enough. Isn't that always the issue?
But it's Ross that needs help..?!?!
Cracks me up how somebody who says "The bloke's entitled to the money, but let's not pretend that ALL he cares about is the club when he take $6m to go to a job he's already been given, with a salary of approx $8m per year awaiting him and already a multi-millionaire" is deemed the lunatic in this argument... He's NOT all about LFC. He's all about Rafa. Anybody who cannot see this is a blinkered as they paint those who argue the point.
But neither Shanks nor Paisley would have ever put Peter fucking Crouch on the right wing.
I'll never forgive him that.
Mate, he clearly has a huge love for the club, the fans, the city, the people. Surely you can't deny that? We all speak of mercenaries, players and managers who move from job to job and don't have emotion or attachment to the club or city. Here's the opposite, a man who would DO ANYTHING to have that job again, and we still find fault with him. It amazes me how unappreciative people are of this great quality when it's right there to see: loyalty.
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