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Post-Match Benfica (H)

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Ryan

The Prophet
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I know we scored 4 against a pretty good side, but I don't think we played that well. We've played better this season and lost. Football huh? Some great individual performances - Kuyt, Carra, Kyrgiakos - but bar that we more more solid than spectacular. Certainly I was worried after the opening 15 minutes when Benfica pinned us back and gave us little time on the ball, but results are a lot easier to come by when you take your chances. Kinda like the anti-Sunday really, when we couldn't kill Birmingham with a multitiude of excellent goalscoring opportunities.

Interesting approach from the Portugese to start the game. Man-on-man pressure rather than a determined team approach. Closest player to the Liverpool player in possession pressured. Sorta like United in the opening half hour last night or Barca at the Emirates last week, only not quite as manic and as a result - not as effective. Cardozo is a throwback stirker. Postions himself between the two centre-backs and rarely deviates from there. Behind him, Aimar and the rest of the midfield pushed forward to deny us playing out from the back, which we love to do. Reina had to clear long more often in the first half than I've seen him do in ages. We sit deep enough as it is whenever Kyrgiakos is in the back four, that combined with decent applied pressure meant we defended from the edge of our box. A marked contrast to how we set up when Agger and Carra are the defensive two on other days.

As a result Torres was isolated, and frustrated in my opinion. If Benfica were top top drawer opposition they'd have beaten us tonight. The Aimar of 5 years ago would have done more with the space afforded him in behind Cardozo, and had they an attacking outlet on the right wing to match Di Maria on the left, we'd have been up shit creek. They don't move the ball quickly enough either. A bit straight and flat. Look at how Gerrard opens space for himself in midfield; quick passes around corners, looking to link with whomever's closest to him. Quick ball movement doesn't have to be a zipped pass out wide. Anything done neatly and effectively in triangles opens space.

A few small things that happened which pleased:
- Gerrard's corners. Much much better. Whipped in fast on top of the keeper's head.
- Our defending from corners. We were under serious pressure there at times, and held our shape very well.
- Glenjo's defending. Up against quality opposition there, and held him.
- Carra's celebration at the final whistle. Anyone else see that? Surprised me.
- Scoring 4 whilst having two defensive midfielders (sorry, couldn't resist)

I was actually calling out for midfielders to break forward in support of Torres and Gerrard for most of that first half, in the way Gibson and Fletcher did last night. Then, out of nowhere Lucas gallops forward and gets the second. I preffered his role in the build-up to the 4th more than his actual goal though. A fucking thumping tackle won in the middle of the park that led to Torres through on goal. He used to get (unfair) stick on here for being a bit of a shithouse, but he can tackle. Usually stays on his feet to do it which I like, but isn't afraid to fucking crunch (as much as Lucas can actually 'crunch') someone when the moment arises.

Still - Good move, run and finish for his goal. The frustrating thing about it was the absolute fucking simplicity of it all. Why doesn't he do that more often? I like Lucas, as you all know, but he can offer more. It's not like he's inhibited by a lack of ability, cos he's got good technique, and a decent brain, I just worry that he's held back by a lack of drive and/or confidence. Perhaps it's Rafa's instructions. But his aim should be to emulate a Fletcher. Hopefully that goal shows him what he could be.

And from there the game's open, and should have been over. Bar the scare after their free-kick goal, we never looked dreadfully under the cosh. A couple of outstanding performances from the two centre-backs, really really impressive. As mentioned, I'm not a fan of how deep we defend when the Greek plays, but performances like that (and the many others he's given this year) highlight the bargain he was at 1.5M odd. Carra too; his contribution might have gone unnoticed, but he was superb. Resolute, strong, and a leader. Nobody does backs-to-the-walll better.

And Dirk. From his super takcle on Di Maria at the corner of the 6 yard box in the first 3 minutes, to his goal, his set-up for Torres' first, and his general all-round play. I could go on, but I won't. I love him though.

Anyway, Atletico next. Winning the Europa Cup is a bit like winning gold at the Commnwealth games isn't it? The pleasing thing we can probably take from it is that we'll have to beat some decent sides to do it. And if tonight's anything to go by, we mightn't even have to play to our best to do that.
 
[quote author=franklyfrank link=topic=39740.msg1085265#msg1085265 date=1270774711]
What did Carra do at the final whistle mate?

Good analysis as usual btw.
[/quote]

Jumped up, pumped fists, and nearly raped Glenjo (or might have been the Greek). Somebody get a youtube of the ref blowing his whistle at the end, and you'll see.
 
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=39740.msg1085268#msg1085268 date=1270774996]
[quote author=franklyfrank link=topic=39740.msg1085265#msg1085265 date=1270774711]
What did Carra do at the final whistle mate?

Good analysis as usual btw.
[/quote]

Jumped up, pumped fists, and nearly raped Glenjo (or might have been the Greek). Somebody get a youtube of the ref blowing his whistle at the end, and you'll see.
[/quote]Its Johnson.
Yeah he looks chuffed to fuck.
 
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=39740.msg1085268#msg1085268 date=1270774996]
[quote author=franklyfrank link=topic=39740.msg1085265#msg1085265 date=1270774711]
What did Carra do at the final whistle mate?

Good analysis as usual btw.
[/quote]

Jumped up, pumped fists, and nearly raped Glenjo (or might have been the Greek). Somebody get a youtube of the ref blowing his whistle at the end, and you'll see.
[/quote]

Missed that. Quite surprising, Carra's usually one of those that's very reserved after a big win.

Suppose after the season we've had you can hardly blame him for getting a bit more excited than usual.
 
Kuyt's cross for Torres wasn't just a fantastic piece of technical skill it was pure footballing intelligence , to think that quick and to know exactly where Torres was, was excellent, and also absolutely made up for Lucas, he gets stick from alot of fans but he still puts in 100% effort on every game despite not many fans supporting him
 
However, asked if he felt it was his side's best performance of the season so far, Benitez replied: "I don't think so.

"It was a very good game. Maybe because the other team is very good you can say four goals was a fantastic performance but I think we have played other games better than this in terms of possession and control."

Rafa would love me.
 
I was at work and had to rely on the match thread for updates however have just watched the goals. A very accomplished finish from Lucas, I'm really pleased for the lad. Torres' first was a superb team goal and his second was one of his signature goals. I shall go to sleep happy tonight.
 
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=39740.msg1085264#msg1085264 date=1270774610]I was actually calling out for midfielders to break forward in support of Torres and Gerrard for most of that first half, in the way Gibson and Fletcher did last night. Then, out of nowhere Lucas gallops forward and gets the second. I preffered his role in the build-up to the 4th more than his actual goal though. A fucking thumping tackle won in the middle of the park that led to Torres through on goal. He used to get (unfair) stick on here for being a bit of a shithouse, but he can tackle. Usually stays on his feet to do it which I like, but isn't afraid to fucking crunch (as much as Lucas can actually 'crunch') someone when the moment arises.

Still - Good move, run and finish for his goal. The frustrating thing about it was the absolute fucking simplicity of it all. Why doesn't he do that more often? I like Lucas, as you all know, but he can offer more. It's not like he's inhibited by a lack of ability, cos he's got good technique, and a decent brain, I just worry that he's held back by a lack of drive and/or confidence. Perhaps it's Rafa's instructions. But his aim should be to emulate a Fletcher. Hopefully that goal shows him what he could be. [/quote]

Although I'm frustrated with how Lucas usually plays in the context of our team, I also think he's got a bit of ability. Confidence is likely a factor as is Rafa's tactical approach. Your comment in another thread about two defensive midfielders only working if you've got "sex" x 4 in front I think is very true. I've long said I think he'd thrive in a continental league but would also like to see how he plays in a slightly more free role. Maybe we'll see that next year if we've got a fresh face in the dugout.

The Fletcher comparison is a good one. While I've been a Fletcher fan since long before he was a regular in United's side, he was certainly not a commanding, dominant player three or four years ago. It took him quite a while to really find his feet and then he really took off last year. Most United fans I know didn't rate him at all before.

I'm not holding my breath that Lucas will blossom like that but I'm happy to not see him sold unless we get a true quality replacement.
 
Agree with most of that, mate.

Kuyt had by far his best game in some time; good goal from an oustanding Gerrard corner, superb cross for what was, IMO, the best goal we've scored in some time. Actually, have to dwell on that a little; I remember a goal by Rooney in which he and Ronaldo broke with extreme pace from their own area. Kenny, at the time, said it had been a long time since he'd seen attacking football like that and I agreed whole heartedly. Well, I thought we saw it in our third goal - it was outstanding; from the moment that Mascher kept possession rather than just clear it to the excellent angled ball by Yossi, the run by Torres outside him and then into the area to meet a sensational cross by Kuyt; just an outstanding goal which I will replay many times for my manc and Chav mates.

Gerrard suffers because he didn't score but he was pivotal in our first two goals which sent us on our way and, as a consequence, he was as important as Torres.

I've warmed to the Greek and his Sami-esque performances - particularly in the air. He's still young enough to develop the passing game which Sami didn't develop until later in his career.


As for your final post that Rafa would love you; I'd judge carefully the recipient before including that on your resume. :-\
 
Seems like Carra really was quite chuffed...

“We’ve beaten a very good side, a top team, and it’s a very good result,†Carragher said. “We can take massive confidence from this as they are flying in their league and next season will probably be in the Champions League.Before the draw was made they were the ones that everyone was trying to stay away from so this is a great result.â€
 
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=39740.msg1085312#msg1085312 date=1270784186]
Seems like Carra really was quite chuffed...

“We’ve beaten a very good side, a top team, and it’s a very good result,†Carragher said. “We can take massive confidence from this as they are flying in their league and next season will probably be in the Champions League.Before the draw was made they were the ones that everyone was trying to stay away from so this is a great result.â€
[/quote]

I think Carra knows that this is still an important trophy and would be a good, momentum-building way to end what has been a poor season on the whole. Also, he knows he's not getting any younger and may not have too many more cracks at trophies.
 
I agree with ryan 100%, lucas should be looking to break forwards everytime we gain possession of the ball. he shouldn't be using lack of pace or opposition counter attack as an excuse for continually sitting deep, unless of course he is TOLD to sit deep regardless and if that is the case why did he get forwards in this game to score and the lille game to create the penalty.
 
I'll add that agger positions himself much better than insua, how many times did agger get pulled out of position or allow a cross to come into the center? no question had insua started we would have conceeded at least another goal. I, and many people said that card for insua was a blessing in disguise and I don't care how rubbish that sounds in regards to supporting a player.
 
the counter attacking goal was top top drawer and definately one of the best moves I've seen from a team this season and kuyt's cross for torres was fucking SUBLIME.
 
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=39740.msg1085330#msg1085330 date=1270794676]
the counter attacking goal was top top drawer and definately one of the best moves I've seen from a team this season and kuyt's cross for torres was fucking SUBLIME.
[/quote]

That goal for me, was reminiscent of Terry Mac's final goal in the 7-0 drubbing of Spurs, in its simplicity,speed and few passes from defence to attack. Fantastic goal.
 
I didn't think we were at our best either, which is why I didn't rate everyone that highly in the ratings thread. In the first half, they looked the more dangerous side, but somehow we managed to get ourselves in front and that made the game for us.

As far as Lucas getting forward (and putting aside the debate around his ability), I'd say he fails to do so regularly for a combination of reasons. Tactical instructions no doubt features highly a lot of the time, but I think so do nerves. He's had a tough time at Liverpool so far and perhaps as a result he's too focused on keeping things simple and not making mistakes.

The goal Wiz refers to is the one against Arsenal in the CL semi-final I think. A brilliant counter-attacking move and I think Sky used it in the promo's also. Ours was pretty damn good last night as well - I have to say I expected us to fuck it up so when Kuyt crossed it in (rather brilliantly) and it suddenly became apparent Torres was there to smash it home, the feeling was quite gratifying.
 
Lucas has done it before. So is it he can but wont, or can but told not too. Maybe there's a player there we've not used this season.
 
[quote author=keniget link=topic=39740.msg1085337#msg1085337 date=1270795794]
I didn't think we were at our best either, which is why I didn't rate everyone that highly in the ratings thread. In the first half, they looked the more dangerous side, but somehow we managed to get ourselves in front and that made the game for us.

As far as Lucas getting forward (and putting aside the debate around his ability), I'd say he fails to do so regularly for a combination of reasons. Tactical instructions no doubt features highly a lot of the time, but I think so do nerves. He's had a tough time at Liverpool so far and perhaps as a result he's too focused on keeping things simple and not making mistakes.

The goal Wiz refers to is the one against Arsenal in the CL semi-final I think. A brilliant counter-attacking move and I think Sky used it in the promo's also. Ours was pretty damn good last night as well - I have to say I expected us to fuck it up so when Kuyt crossed it in (rather brilliantly) and it suddenly became apparent Torres was there to smash it home, the feeling was quite gratifying.
[/quote]

I agree keni, when yossi picks up the ball and starts to run with it towards a crowd of players I was like 'oh, here we go...' but he actually picks out kuyt (well, wasn't expecting THAT) and then then kuyt picks out torres with a first time cross (well, wasn't expecting THAT). great goal
 
Great post ryan and some good replies too.

I think the playing down of our performance and saying a better side would have beaten us is harsh though. For all their pressure they failed to score against us in open play, again. We rode an inevitable storm - because they ARE a good side, defended well and hit them where it hurt with quick incisive play. We were the better side and despite not wiping the floor with them with possession football, we put together some of our best moves of the season against possibly the best team (besides us) left in the competition.

We got it spot on and scored magnificant goals.
 
It was actually really pleasing the way we picked them off, in true gritty 'liverpool in europe' fashion.
 
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=39740.msg1085363#msg1085363 date=1270799012]
Great post ryan and some good replies too.

I think the playing down of our performance and saying a better side would have beaten us is harsh though. For all their pressure they failed to score against us in open play, again. We rode an inevitable storm - because they ARE a good side, defended well and hit them where it hurt with quick incisive play. We were the better side and despite not wiping the floor with them with possession football, we put together some of our best moves of the season against possibly the best team (besides us) left in the competition.

We got it spot on and scored magnificant goals.
[/quote]

Spot on Mark (and another excellent write-up by Ryan).

However well we played within ourselves, we should be nothing but proud for beating a very good side with some style.

If we can carry that into our remaining premiership games we just might be lucky enough to snatch fourth?
 
Hopefully mate, just depends which team decides to turn up in the league though.

Ps. Was made up for lucas last night, as were most of the fans at the game it seemed.
 
A fucking thumping tackle won in the middle of the park that led to Torres through on goal

I'm rather surprised you haven't given credit to Mascherano for the brilliant pass that gave Torres his chance. I hope you've come off the 'If we get a big offer we should sell' stance - he's one of the most important players on our team.
 
[quote author=KopKing link=topic=39740.msg1085333#msg1085333 date=1270795220]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=39740.msg1085330#msg1085330 date=1270794676]
the counter attacking goal was top top drawer and definately one of the best moves I've seen from a team this season and kuyt's cross for torres was fucking SUBLIME.
[/quote]

That goal for me, was reminiscent of Terry Mac's final goal in the 7-0 drubbing of Spurs, in its simplicity,speed and few passes from defence to attack. Fantastic goal.
[/quote]

I've already talked about how good this goal was and compared it to Rooney's goal in the break away with Ronaldo. To be fair the first goal I thought of was the one against Spurs - but this one had too many touches where as that one was all, incredibly, amazing one touch stuff of the highest order.
 
Great post Ryan as usual.

You're a bit of a twat on ocassion, but you're a twat who knows football.

Fancy a pint?
 
[quote author=Wizardry link=topic=39740.msg1085763#msg1085763 date=1270865808]
[quote author=KopKing link=topic=39740.msg1085333#msg1085333 date=1270795220]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=39740.msg1085330#msg1085330 date=1270794676]
the counter attacking goal was top top drawer and definately one of the best moves I've seen from a team this season and kuyt's cross for torres was fucking SUBLIME.
[/quote]

That goal for me, was reminiscent of Terry Mac's final goal in the 7-0 drubbing of Spurs, in its simplicity,speed and few passes from defence to attack. Fantastic goal.
[/quote]

I've already talked about how good this goal was and compared it to Rooney's goal in the break away with Ronaldo. To be fair the first goal I thought of was the one against Spurs - but this one had too many touches where as that one was all, incredibly, amazing one touch stuff of the highest order.
[/quote]

For me, the best touch of all was the cross from Kuyt. It was 'delicious'.
 
[quote author=Rouge Penguin link=topic=39740.msg1085340#msg1085340 date=1270796067]
Lucas has done it before. So is it he can but wont, or can but told not too. Maybe there's a player there we've not used this season.
[/quote]

Lucas has indeed done it before, but until this game he's done it consistently poorly. It's been one of the safest bets in football that his getting on the end of an attacking move would see the move break down.

Kudos to him though for a fine goal, which he could easily have mucked up but didn't. He arrived with the rep of being a "box-to-box" player and maybe he's suffered from being told to hang back instead.
 
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