Pedro

[mark1975]

It's not so much the numbers, as the type of players.

If we sign Pedro, *and* Benteke....

I honestly honestly don't know what the plan is. Is there one?

I've never known such a completely bizarre approach to squad-building. We're potentially wasting tens of millions here.

You'd assume Pedro would have one of the two/three attacking berths, so that would leave one/two positions for Sturridge, Benteke, Origi, Ings, Ibe. You'd only then have one AM, so that would be from Coutinho, Firmino and Lallana (Markovic too), when ideally you want to play Coutinho AND Firmino.

It doesn't make sense in terms of numbers (and I'm all for competition), especially when people are saying we have enough centre backs, when at least two of them aren't really good enough.

 

[carlv]

7 is fine, but it could be potentially 9, if we have Benteke and Pedro/Markovic.

There is also Teixeira, he is 22 now and should start getting game time rather than buy someone else.

 

[mark1975]

There is also Teixeira, he is 22 now and should start getting game time rather than buy someone else.

Which is another scenario of this, a kid does well for a few years and it's make or break time in his career, but because of squad overkill he doesn't get a look in and moves on.

 

[peterhague]

You'd assume Pedro would have one of the two/three attacking berths, so that would leave one/two positions for Sturridge, Benteke, Origi, Ings, Ibe. You'd only then have one AM, so that would be from Coutinho, Firmino and Lallana (Markovic too), when ideally you want to play Coutinho AND Firmino.

It doesn't make sense in terms of numbers (and I'm all for competition), especially when people are saying we have enough centre backs, when at least two of them aren't really good enough.

The way I'd put it, is given the quality and expense of players, you've got the following 'automatic starters' for six positions:

Henderson (captain)
Milner (was given assurances)
Coutinho
Firmino
Pedro
Benteke
Sturridge


That's 7 players who have to start every match they're fit for. It's too many. You want 4 or 5 - leaves space for fringe guys like Ings, Origi, Ibe, Lallana, Markovic, Allen, Lucas, Can to at least have reasonable shouts of playing.

 

[Gerry_A_Trick]

It's not so much the numbers, as the type of players.

If we sign Pedro, *and* Benteke....

I honestly honestly don't know what the plan is. Is there one?

I've never known such a completely bizarre approach to squad-building. We're potentially wasting tens of millions here.

Well yeah, that too. If we sign Benteke, we'll need to sign someone else to replace the fact that we won't change our style to suit him and he'll be ineffective.

 

[mark1975]

Well yeah, that too. If we sign Benteke, we'll need to sign someone else to replace the fact that we won't change our style to suit him and he'll be ineffective.

If we sign him, and I'm not advocating it for *that* price, at least we'd have a different option that can actually score goals consistently, rather than what we had last year. It'd only be the same as City with Bony/Dzeko (for example). The list that Peter just gave as automatic starters, you could imagine a scenario where, if everyone is fit, Benteke becomes a quality alternative rather than a definite starter. The only argument then is the one we started with months ago, is it worth the fee for that?

 

[Rosco]

I find this one impossible to call, he's clearly got talent and being a role player at Barca is no great shame. But it doesn't necessarily mean he's capable of any more than hes already done.

At 27 he's had a relatively light career in terms of games played. But he also has a slightly worse goalscoring record than Iago Aspas.

 

[dmishra]

I find this one impossible to call, he's clearly got talent and being a role player at Barca is no great shame. But it doesn't necessarily mean he's capable of any more than hes already done.

At 27 he's had a relatively light career in terms of games played. But he also has a slightly worse goalscoring record than Iago Aspas.

What?

Aspas' career record is 72 goals in 270 games. 23 of these 72 goals came playing in top flight football. The rest came in 2nd division football.

Pedro has 98 in 318 appearances. He's had two 20+ goal seasons, and one 19 goal season in top flight football.

 

[Gerry_A_Trick]

If we sign him, and I'm not advocating it for *that* price, at least we'd have a different option that can actually score goals consistently, rather than what we had last year. It'd only be the same as City with Bony/Dzeko (for example). The list that Peter just gave as automatic starters, you could imagine a scenario where, if everyone is fit, Benteke becomes a quality alternative rather than a definite starter. The only argument then is the one we started with months ago, is it worth the fee for that?

If we had City's money, then I think it'd be an decent option. We don't though.

I think that money would be better spent on someone more suited to the style of play we are trying to play. We're still short actual goals scorers, Sturridge is the only one we can rely on, and it's likely he'll not be fit a lot of the time.

Peters list of automatic starters will probably start about 10 games total together in the whole season, through injury, resting, form etc. I'm not sure what value there is in even contemplating ideal scenarios.

 

[Silver Sean]

He's total shite. How he's stayed at Barca this long is beyond me.
And as others have pointed out, how many forwards do we need? We seem to be in for every AM or striker but still have not had a sniff of the most important position after last year's defensive shambles – a DM.
Is BR a gung-ho gunslinger who honestly just believes in trying to outscore the opposition every week, or just a man with no plan?
All very odd.

 

[Rosco]

What?

Aspas' career record is 72 goals in 270 games. 23 of these 72 goals came playing in top flight football. The rest came in 2nd division football.

Pedro has 98 in 318 appearances. He's had two 20+ goal seasons, and one 19 goal season in top flight football.

I'd forgotten Celta were in the 2nd division for a while

 

[mark1975]

If we had City's money, then I think it'd be an decent option. We don't though.

I think that money would be better spent on someone more suited to the style of play we are trying to play. We're still short actual goals scorers, Sturridge is the only one we can rely on, and it's likely he'll not be fit a lot of the time.

Peters list of automatic starters will probably start about 10 games total together in the whole season, through injury, resting, form etc. I'm not sure what value there is in even contemplating ideal scenarios.

It's not really about ideal scenario's and I do agree we need another goalscorer and I've said I'm not exactly "for" Benteke, but we do have alot of fringe options and a fairly bolstered high end of the team. The reason we did so well the season before last was continuity. Ok, so we were lucky with injuries for the most part, but it helped us get the bit between our teeth. Our biggest problem last year, aside from being hit with the Sturridge injury and buying poorly, was a tendency to go with the mentality of chopping and changing to see what worked.

People are talking about having a clear plan in mind and then seem to be wavering towards having two+ players for every position as options. A clear plan is surely with an idea of how you want to play, how you want to get the best out of your players and which partnerships and systems will help execute that. I'm not talking about having a set 11 (I can hear Ryan frothing at the mouth), I'm talking about having a core and then having some quality beyond that to cover for inevitable injury, loss in form and suspensions. That's from grass roots up, you want a core group of players and then a few options in each area of the team. Having a squad of 2/3 players for each position is for the Madrid's of this World who have quality upon quality to come into the team. We have some good players, some steady Eddie's and a shit load of not yet realised potential. That's not really the ideal environment for chopping and changing.

 

[peterhague]

We already had a big squad, it was just a bit unbalanced. This should have been a summer for intelligent augmentation, but it looks like we're just going on a massive binge.

 

[6TimesaRed]

I find this one impossible to call, he's clearly got talent and being a role player at Barca is no great shame. But it doesn't necessarily mean he's capable of any more than hes already done.

At 27 he's had a relatively light career in terms of games played. But he also has a slightly worse goalscoring record than Iago Aspas.

He averages around 1 goal every 180 minutes.. hardly shabby...

1 goal in 2 games...

We will probably play 50+ games this season

A potential of 25 goals if he was to play every game..

If his return for the season was 20 goals.. I would be happy with that...

 

[mark1975]

He averages around 1 goal every 180 minutes.. hardly shabby...

1 goal in 2 games...

We will probably play 50+ games this season

A potential of 25 goals if he was to play every game..

If his return for the season was 20 goals.. I would be happy with that...

The same as Benteke then, only Benteke has actually done it over here.

 

[6TimesaRed]

The same as Benteke then, only Benteke has actually done it over here.

Except Benteke will cost more.. can only really play in one position..

Whereas Pedro has more to his game than just goals, can play in numerous positions.. and like I said earlier his assist stats are not too shabby either...

Pedro is a better fit for the system we play than Benteke imho... He is also a winner.. he has won everything the game has to offer.. This team needs winners...

 

[mark1975]

Except Benteke will cost more.. can only really play in one position..

Whereas Pedro has more to his game than just goals, can play in numerous positions.. and like I said earlier his assist stats are not too shabby either...

Pedro is a better fit for the system we play than Benteke imho... He is also a winner.. he has won everything the game has to offer.. This team needs winners...

He is, but the goalscoring record is difficult to translate to this league and this system, so I don't think it's that logical to say "he scored X amount in one of the best attacking sides in World football, ergo.. "

 

[6TimesaRed]

He is, but the goalscoring record is difficult to translate to this league and this system, so I don't think it's that logical to say "he scored X amount in one of the best attacking sides in World football, ergo.. "

Firminho - Studge - Pedro with Coutinhio playing behind whilst not Barca, on paper doesn't look too shabby either...

Our system doesn't play to Benteke's strengths.. It will mean a complete reinvention of our style of play.. That was attempted with Lambert and Balotelli last season.. we all know the results..

So arguably either signing is risk.. Though I personally would go for Pedro, for me it poses less of a risk..

 

[Mors]

Except Benteke will cost more.. can only really play in one position..

Whereas Pedro has more to his game than just goals, can play in numerous positions.. and like I said earlier his assist stats are not too shabby either...

Pedro is a better fit for the system we play than Benteke imho... He is also a winner.. he has won everything the game has to offer.. This team needs winners...

Our problem isn't assists or final balls now, we've got players for that, we just need someone who can 'only score goals'. That was our issue last season when sicknote was out. Pedro isn't what we need. When sicknote is out for half the season as usual, we need someone who can play by himself up top potentially, and offer a goal threat every game, and put away the chances that are provided to him.
I'd take Charlie Austin over Pedro. And for less money.

 

[Glen C]

Pedro is the NUTS.... I'd love him at liverpool.

 

[6TimesaRed]

Our problem isn't assists or final balls now, we've got players for that, we just need someone who can 'only score goals'. That was our issue last season when sicknote was out. Pedro isn't what we need. When sicknote is out for half the season as usual, we need someone who can play by himself up top potentially, and offer a goal threat every game, and put away the chances that are provided to him.
I'd take Charlie Austin over Pedro. And for less money.

We have Ings!!!.. 😀.. Firminho can play as a false number 9.. and so can Pedro..

Problem is there isn't that type of Clinical Striker available that would want to come to us.. Charlie Austin is a big risk.. whilst he scores goals, his workrate is not the best.. Would he fit into the side in Rodgers style of play.. probably not.. ?

Austin though would probably work much better as an impact player.. nick you a goal when you need one... Like Hernandez did for UTD..

 

[peterhague]

There's no plan, I'm convinced of it. Rodgers is genuinely clueless.

Sturridge is a brilliant striker but injury prone. The clever way to approach that is to recognise

1. He needs a high quality back up
2. A high quality back up will be expensive
3. Therefore both players need to be able to play in the same team when Sturridge is fit.

That informs your choice of formation. Either 442 or 433, because it needs to accommodate at least two strikers.

So pick one and then build around it.

We simply haven't gone through that simple initial planning stage.

 

[Ryan]

There's no plan, I'm convinced of it. Rodgers is genuinely clueless.

Sturridge is a brilliant striker but injury prone. The clever way to approach that is to recognise

1. He needs a high quality back up
2. A high quality back up will be expensive
3. Therefore both players need to be able to play in the same team when Sturridge is fit.

That informs your choice of formation. Either 442 or 433, because it needs to accommodate at least two strikers.

So pick one and then build around it.

We simply haven't gone through that simple initial planning stage.

Yeah pretty much.

I think we've been banging this drum for a while. I just don't get the line of thinking.

 

[peterhague]

Yeah pretty much.

I think we've been banging this drum for a while. I just don't get the line of thinking.

If it was just a matter of loads of AMs and not enough actual strikers, as you said, it'd be one thing. I'd be concerned but I could sort of understand it - I'd just put it down to Rodgers being too in love with all that tiki taka bollocks.

But throw Benteke in to the mix as well??

Just a total fucking 'what is this guy on?'

 

[hmmmmm1]

Is Pedro another Phil Neville or the real deal.


All the players mentioned earlier have been sucessful a other clubs before coming to barca

 

[RedStar]

Hes quality, can play in a number of positions, experienced at the very top level of the game and wouldnt be that expensive. Really cant see a reason not want this to happen

 

[SummerOnions]

Is Pedro another Phil Neville or the real deal.


All the players mentioned earlier have been sucessful a other clubs before coming to barca

Just go ahead and read that back to yourself

Is Pedro another Phil Neville?

 

[dee]

Aside from the initial betting activity is their ANY concrete evidence that Pedro has any interest in moving to the UK never mind Liverpool?

 

[Frogfish]

The way I'd put it, is given the quality and expense of players, you've got the following 'automatic starters' for six positions:

Henderson (captain)
Milner (was given assurances)
Coutinho
Firmino
Pedro
Benteke
Sturridge

That's 7 players who have to start every match they're fit for. It's too many. You want 4 or 5 - leaves space for fringe guys like Ings, Origi, Ibe, Lallana, Markovic, Allen, Lucas, Can to at least have reasonable shouts of playing.

Well they don't 'have' to start at all. Do Chelsea, United, City have only 6 automatic starters for 6 slots ? If you want to be considered a top team you need more than 6 for 6, especially when injury and other issues (loss of form, suspensions, changes in formation, substitutions) are considered. Maybe 8/9 for 6 is about right. For the team as a whole I'd want 15/16 players that could / should be starting most games with the rest of the squad there as support.

 

[Frogfish]

That informs your choice of formation. Either 442 or 433, because it needs to accommodate at least two strikers.

So pick one and then build around it.

We simply haven't gone through that simple initial planning stage.

How do we know this ? There seems to be a lot of talk about reverting to the formations used during our 2nd place season, namely 442 diamond and 433. Which makes sense because we know BR actually prefers 442 and have bought in Clyne who isn't a WB. Chatter re a replacement LB for Enrique too, which if true would endorse that theory.