Palace Post Match
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Shines @jurgen4pm signal
One poor pass and a sloppy tackle aside, an excellent Lovren performance when we needed it. Marshalled Adebayor and Bolasie very well throughout the game, and what a tackle that was on Soare near the end of the game.
I thought he Origi did quite well to hold up the ball, beat players on the turn and earn free-kicks. He didn't have nearly enough support from Firmino, who had a very quiet game up until the goal, and Lallana who unfortunately reverted to type after good first 10 minutes.
Can MOM for me. Really impressive DM performance.
Looking at the 5:20 mark of the clip - the action leading to the penalty - I think Klopp ought to give Coutinho a bollocking for his lack of hunger at the end of the game. When Henderson made the pass to Benteke who was 6 yards ahead of him, Coutinho was about level with Henderson, and Lallana was about 5 yards further behind them.
Freeze at 5:26 and you'll see the image below. At the point when Benteke went down after his 24-yard run, nobody was in the box. Coutinho was just ambling up to the tip of the 18-yard box and Lallana had just caught up with him. If Benteke hadn't gone down, it was highly unlikely we were going to score because there wasn't anyone in the centre for him to cut back to. All Benteke's left with is a shot at the far post from a tight angle or maybe a pass back to Henderson.
Look at the huge space that Coutinho could've attacked. Lallana had played and done a lot of hard running the whole game so he had an excuse, but Coutinho should've broken sweat to get into the box to exploit the space and get nearer to Benteke. Really lazy stuff by Coutinho there, in my opinion.
I don't really get the shit Benteke has had in the press (and among fans) about the penalty. He's not the first to have taken a tumble with minimal contact, it's not completely clearcut whether or not there was contact. And he's just done exactly what everyone has screamed at him all season to do - to grow a set of balls and show a winners mentality. It's this sort of thing that we often fail to do to capitalise on marginal games, to claw back some points. We're not a diving team, we're not cheats, we've been on the end of some shit decisions in the past while often being too honest for our own good, which is one of the reasons we're exactly where we are, because we lack a ruthless streak.
We got the three points, I'm sure at some other point of the season we've had the shitty end of a decision from an official, it balances itself out and if truth be told, I'd give Benteke the benefit of the doubt anyway. The defender dived in unnecessarily, just like Lucas did a couple of weeks ago against West Ham, it was a soft decision by the ref after barely any contact, but Lucas made it easy for the ref, he gave the freekick and we lost the game. Shit happens. We're not suddenly in bed with the devil because of a slightly iffy decision and I'm amazed at the focus it's getting, given the antics the likes of Chelsea, Arsenal & United have gotten away with for YEARS.
We got the three points, I'm sure at some other point of the season we've had the shitty end of a decision from an official, it balances itself out and if truth be told, I'd give Benteke the benefit of the doubt anyway. The defender dived in unnecessarily, just like Lucas did a couple of weeks ago against West Ham, it was a soft decision by the ref after barely any contact, but Lucas made it easy for the ref, he gave the freekick and we lost the game. Shit happens. We're not suddenly in bed with the devil because of a slightly iffy decision and I'm amazed at the focus it's getting, given the antics the likes of Chelsea, Arsenal & United have gotten away with for YEARS.
MOM pundits all agreed it was a penalty. If you're running and someone pushes down on the sole of your feet, you are going to go down.
Quite, it just seems to be getting alot of attention really when it's about as difficult a one to call as I can remember, yet a couple of media idiots seem to have decided Benteke's a cheat. It's just really strange when you consider the antics someone like Costa has gotten away with repeatedly, with barely the same scrutiny from certain corners of the press, they turn the other cheek then and start calling him a winner, etc.
It's the shrill cnuts like Collymore, mostly. And Jason Cyndy was pathetic on talkSport' Call Collymore
Was at the game and the best thing about the peno was it shut that fucking drum up ! Hard to sit on your hands in those circumstances but just about managed it. I thought the centre backs were very good, full backs less so. Can was mom for me, he had a very good game in both positions. Firmino and Origi worked very hard off the ball. Palace has to be the worse ground in the country to get to by car.
I've only realised that @jurgen4pm is Rafa4PM.
Pardew is laughable. As Klopp says, if you're running at any kind of decent pace then all you need is a clip to fall down. It's ironic that Pardew and a few others seem to complain that the slo-mo is misleading when looking at the contact, but isn''t misleading when analysing Benteke's fall. You can't have it both ways. Slo-mo is always a bit misleading because it gives you the impression there was time for premeditation when there wasn't. And anyone who persists with the nonsensical 'he went down too easily' cliche needs to be beaten about the head and neck with the fat book called 'How to Go Down Difficultly'.
Oncey's "fucking blind"? What?
I don't think anyone can really say that was 100% a penalty. Pardew's hilarious reaction to it was actually reasonable in many ways
If that linesman gave it, are we saying that he definitely saw the minimal contact with the defender's trailing knee that touched Benteke's foot as he was pulling out of the tackle? Given it was on the wrong side?
And of those referees and pundits giving opinions today, claiming that "any contact" is still a penalty, what seems entirely possible is that the brave linesman actually may have given the correct decision entirely by accident, because in real time, from where he was, there is NO WAY he saw that tiny nudge with the knee. What he did see was a brilliantly theatrical dive under what looked like a poor tackle, because even if that knee does catch his foot, it's a rather extreme reaction to the contact.
It's fucking absurd to sit here and say it was an "obvious penalty", given that a whole host of media experts, referees, journalists and fans are all offering entirely conflicting views across the media today.
If that had been against us, we'd be fucking raging about cheating players, dives and shithouse referees and linemen. We got lucky. And I'm delighted.
It's down to the way brains work, and oodaloop theory. To act, your brain has to observe, orientate itself, decide what to do, and then act. ooda. Benteke rightly orientated himself to the incoming tackle, and had the tackle actually transpired then his dive would have seemed perfectly normal. It's only because the tackle never came, combined with his brain being too slow to readjust, and therefore he carried on with the originally planned dive that now ended up looking too theatrical. It's not really his fault or a deliberate decision by him to look like a pussy.
I've seen a lot worse this season. Spurs have had a lot of dubious calls go for them.
It was a stupid tackle and contact was made...trying to stay upright would be daft.
"Hey guys. Bad news, we lost two points today against a bunch of twats... good news, I stayed on my feet and saved poor Delaney from feeling sad and a bit silly ."..
Drogba, Robben and Ronaldo won countless games by blatantly cheating...yet here we are, letting some media wankers make us feel bad because our player went down "a little easy " after being tripped in the box.
It was a stupid tackle and contact was made...trying to stay upright would be daft.
"Hey guys. Bad news, we lost two points today against a bunch of twats... good news, I stayed on my feet and saved poor Delaney from feeling sad and a bit silly ."..
Drogba, Robben and Ronaldo won countless games by blatantly cheating...yet here we are, letting some media wankers make us feel bad because our player went down "a little easy " after being tripped in the box.
If they filmed most fans playing in pub games when they fall down and showed them back in slo-mo it would be educational, because most of them would look 'theatrical'. It's mostly about naivete when it comes to studying banal action re-presented at an unusual speed. You can see dives easily enough with the naked eye - Gerrard's absurd star-shaped forward leaps, Ashley Young's ridiculous scissor-slumps. But it's as if you're showing strange shadow images to neanderthals when you show them stuff in slo-mo - I actually think they stop realising after a few seconds that it IS slowed down. Maybe they've watched The Matrix too often. They read intentions that would take about five minutes to think through in those HD frames. And their apparent idea of what a 'normal' fall is like seems to be the kind of sudden tree-trunk thump that would've caused Newton's fecking brain to explode.
Yeah but the natural inclination is to stay on your feet when you get knocked. He got clipped with approx the power of a jack russell clipping his ankle. If he was running for the bus it wouldn't have knocked him over. I'm obv glad he did fall because it was a foul and if he'd stayed on his feet it wouldn't have been given. I also don't think he could have stayed on his feet given the circumstances, given that every coach he's had since he was eight has told him and every other forward on the planet that a slight nudge equals on arse.
No, there's no inclination at all when you get clipped from the back. Your body is propelled down. Once again, in slo-mo people start to discern things like 'inclination'. A little snippet of The Moral Maze is played out in the mind. That's not how it happens. You fall over when you're clipped. That's why cross country runs see loads of people tumble over when they're bunched together at the start. If you viewed them in super slo-mo it would end up like a High Court trial. Some people will never get it.
Nah
The other factor that's rarely understood is habit. You can study it yourself if you want. Get someone to trip you up once a day for a week and film it. The first time it'll be a completely ungainly tumble. By about the third day it'll be much more pleasing to the eye because you've learnt how to avoid your face smacking on the floor, your knee cap smashing down before the rest of your leg, your bollocks bashing into the abrasive floor tile, etc etc. And by the end of the week Mr Roberts from accounting will stand there, cup of tea in hand, Hob Nob in his saucer, and he'll be muttering, 'Well THAT was very exaggerated'.
Running at that pace and that angle it doesnt take to much contact for you to fall over.
But, there was contact and why should Benteke try to stay on his feet? No dive and a penalty for me.
Delaney is stupid for going in like that and not staying on his feet.
But, there was contact and why should Benteke try to stay on his feet? No dive and a penalty for me.
Delaney is stupid for going in like that and not staying on his feet.
Nah it is more difficult than you think to knock someone to the floor with a touch, or even a brutally violent slide tackle. Humans have exceptionally fast reflexes to maintain their balance. To go down you consciously have to go limp and let Newton do the rest.
Or maybe I just run like George Best and have a different perspective upon balance.
Or maybe I just run like George Best and have a different perspective upon balance.
As with Wenger about Lucas a few years ago, it's simply a typically childish reaction from Pardew - he'd have been grinning and shushing if it had been the other way round - that will now get Benteke booed whenever he's knocked down and will mean he'll have to be practically dismembered to get any other decision in his favour for the rest of the season. If you're really exercised about gamesmanship - THAT'S gamesmanship.
Yeah, but why should he attempt to do that when there is contact and we could get a penalty. If he had stayed on his feet but fucked up the chance we'd be screaming at him for not falling over.
Pardew and Ledley were having a go at him in the Telegraph today.
Christian Benteke accused of diving by Crystal Palace midfielder - and the internet
Eagles midfielder Joe Ledley claims the assistant referee was in no position to award the spot-kick
Damien Delaney slides into Christian Benteke Photo: PA Wire
By Callum Davis
8:46AM GMT 07 Mar 2016
Crystal Palace midfielder Joe Ledley has accused Christian Benteke of diving to win a last-minute penalty on Sunday.
Palace defender Damien Delaney was deemed to have brought down the Liverpool forward in the fifth added minute of stoppage time.
Referee Andre Marineer originally awarded a goal kick for the incident before an intervention from his assistant, Scott Ledger, resulted in a penalty kick being given.
Replays went onto show that Delaney's right knee did come into contact with the Belgian's left foot.
Despite the footage, Joe Ledley, who scored Crystal Palace's only goal of the game, accused the former Villa man of diving.
"It's definitely not a penalty. It is nothing. I thought it was a dive," Ledley told the Croydon Advertiser.
"If you go to ground there is a chance the referee is going to give it. You cannot blame Damien. On another day that would not have been given.
"I thought the linesman gave it. For me, I thought the referee was in a better position. That is why they are there and that is what they get paid to do. It is not good enough at the moment."
Ex-Liverpool striker Stan Collymore was just one of a number of viewers who perceived the decision to be exceptionally harsh.
Delaney, whose contact was deemed sufficient to justify the award of the penaly, joined Ledley in questioning the controversial decision.
"I can honestly say I didn't make contact with Benteke today and if there was slight contact I didnt impede him and certainly didn't feel there was enough to award a penalty in the 96th min," the Republic of Ireland international wrote.
"If a penalty is awarded that late it has to be unequivocal, I waited over an hour to speak with the officials and in fairness to Andre Marriner he said he didn't think it was a penalty but he trusted his linesman that much he awarded it.
"With the way the game was reffed and the physicality of both teams it was unbelievably harsh."
Crystal Palace manager Alan Pardew, whose side have now gone without a Premier League victory since December last year, was visibly irate at the decision, snapping at the line of questioning from Sky Sports interviewer Geoff Shreeves.
“I’ve just heard Jamie Carragher saying there was contact and Benteke was within his rights to go down. Jamie Carragher is saying that?
"He’s an ex-pro. Come on. I'm disappointed with both of them [Benteke and the referee], really frustrated with that," Pardew told Sky Sports.
The debate on whether the challenge warranted a penalty continued to rage for hours after the game on social media.
Match of the Day presenter Gary Lineker insisted there was 'no question' the incident was a penalty, calling Delaney's tackle 'a senseless challenge,'
Crystal Palace now find themselves in 15th place in the Premier League on a run of 12 games without a league win.
The Eagles' last victory came in the fifth round of the FA Cup against Tottenham, and Alan Pardew's side meet Reading on Friday night for a place in the FA Cup semi-finals.
Penalty. All day long.
I'll be honest, when I saw it in real time I was screaming at the telly for a penalty. I screamed even more when it looked like Marriner the cunt had bottled it. When I watched the replay, I thought, "holy fuck we've gotten a bit of luck here". When I watched another replay I saw where the contact was made. Well done to the linesman for spotting it. Not an easy one to call.
Yes, he made a meal of it, but a foul is a foul. At that speed, it was more than enough contact to bring him down. It was a fucking stupid tackle from Delaney though. Benteke was going nowhere with it.
I'll be honest, when I saw it in real time I was screaming at the telly for a penalty. I screamed even more when it looked like Marriner the cunt had bottled it. When I watched the replay, I thought, "holy fuck we've gotten a bit of luck here". When I watched another replay I saw where the contact was made. Well done to the linesman for spotting it. Not an easy one to call.
Yes, he made a meal of it, but a foul is a foul. At that speed, it was more than enough contact to bring him down. It was a fucking stupid tackle from Delaney though. Benteke was going nowhere with it.
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