N'Gog

[mark1975]

[quote author=rage link=topic=36729.msg972642#msg972642 date=1256661220]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=36729.msg972633#msg972633 date=1256660846]
[quote author=rage link=topic=36729.msg972621#msg972621 date=1256660463]
[quote author=Gerry_A_Trick link=topic=36729.msg972611#msg972611 date=1256660032]
I think Marks point was the majority of Rafas misses in the transfer market have been relatively cheap ones, and almost all of his buys over £8m have been successes. Overall his record is quite good I'd say, it's easy to pick on bad buys, but no manager doesn't have them, and the other big teams have, in general, made much bigger blunders than Rafa has.

Obviously there have been a few cheap successes and the occasional expensive mistake.
[/quote]

too many relatively cheap blunders add up to a lot of money.
[/quote]

Ok Rage, just to balance this a bit and try and get you to use some perspective, go add up our successes and then value the amount wasted on 'mistakes' and the amount invested in top class talent.


[/quote]

i manage success in league titles.
[/quote]

Well it's all contributory isn't it? I mean, you've put so much emphasis on that side from 2005, yet it finished 5th in the league, while this one is clearly on the right track as it finished 2nd last season and had the depth to get far in the CL aswell. Progression is just as important, and it still costs money.

 

[Farkmaster]

[quote author=rage link=topic=36729.msg972642#msg972642 date=1256661220]
i manage success in league titles.
[/quote]

In that case everyone is a total failure until they are a total success.

Given that it's an entirely primitive binary for you, why bother fucking expounding on anything with your shifting justifications and explanations.

 

[rage]

[quote author=Sunny link=topic=36729.msg972647#msg972647 date=1256661333]
[quote author=rage link=topic=36729.msg972642#msg972642 date=1256661220]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=36729.msg972633#msg972633 date=1256660846]
[quote author=rage link=topic=36729.msg972621#msg972621 date=1256660463]
[quote author=Gerry_A_Trick link=topic=36729.msg972611#msg972611 date=1256660032]
I think Marks point was the majority of Rafas misses in the transfer market have been relatively cheap ones, and almost all of his buys over £8m have been successes. Overall his record is quite good I'd say, it's easy to pick on bad buys, but no manager doesn't have them, and the other big teams have, in general, made much bigger blunders than Rafa has.

Obviously there have been a few cheap successes and the occasional expensive mistake.
[/quote]

too many relatively cheap blunders add up to a lot of money.
[/quote]

Ok Rage, just to balance this a bit and try and get you to use some perspective, go add up our successes and then value the amount wasted on 'mistakes' and the amount invested in top class talent.


[/quote]

i manage success in league titles.
[/quote]

So you don't celebrate cup success ?
[/quote]

of course i do but as mark himself has pointed out cup success is not really a measure of how good a team is

 

[rage]

[quote author=Farkmaster link=topic=36729.msg972653#msg972653 date=1256661584]
[quote author=rage link=topic=36729.msg972642#msg972642 date=1256661220]
i manage success in league titles.
[/quote]

In that case everyone is a total failure until they are a total success.

Given that it's an entirely primitive binary for you, why bother fucking expounding on anything with your shifting justifications and explanations.
[/quote]

remind us what shankly said

 

[mark1975]

[quote author=rage link=topic=36729.msg972654#msg972654 date=1256661591]
[quote author=Sunny link=topic=36729.msg972647#msg972647 date=1256661333]
[quote author=rage link=topic=36729.msg972642#msg972642 date=1256661220]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=36729.msg972633#msg972633 date=1256660846]
[quote author=rage link=topic=36729.msg972621#msg972621 date=1256660463]
[quote author=Gerry_A_Trick link=topic=36729.msg972611#msg972611 date=1256660032]
I think Marks point was the majority of Rafas misses in the transfer market have been relatively cheap ones, and almost all of his buys over £8m have been successes. Overall his record is quite good I'd say, it's easy to pick on bad buys, but no manager doesn't have them, and the other big teams have, in general, made much bigger blunders than Rafa has.

Obviously there have been a few cheap successes and the occasional expensive mistake.
[/quote]

too many relatively cheap blunders add up to a lot of money.
[/quote]

Ok Rage, just to balance this a bit and try and get you to use some perspective, go add up our successes and then value the amount wasted on 'mistakes' and the amount invested in top class talent.


[/quote]

i manage success in league titles.
[/quote]

So you don't celebrate cup success ?
[/quote]

of course i do but as mark himself has pointed out cup success is not really a measure of how good a team is
[/quote]

Yet you put so much emphasis on how good that squad was, certainly in comparison to this 'poor' one, because it won a cup. Which one is it Rage? You've got a multitude of options drawn up, no doubt.

 

[Delinquent]

[quote author=rage link=topic=36729.msg972605#msg972605 date=1256659840]
[quote author=keniget link=topic=36729.msg972597#msg972597 date=1256659265]
I see you're trying to worm your way out of answering the question. Colour me surprised.

For all the thousands of pounds you spend, you would barely know Kelly's name had it not been for that performance against Lyon.

So with the assumption that you don't think Rafa buys shit players knowing that they're shit - only a madman would think that - and your theory that a cash strapped club should rely on it's youth, I'm guessing that you were in favour of not buying Riera and instead using Hammill. And not buying Yossi, but instead using Anderson. Amirite? We'd have been £20M-£25M better off I reckon.
[/quote]

i'd be please if rafa bought players that he'd actually seen.

yossi was a replacement for garcia
and yes i would have given hamill a go before panic buying riera.
[/quote]

There's a reason very few youngsters have come through under Rafa - it's because they simply haven't been good enough. Look where they are now and you'll get a pretty decent indication of their level. Hopefully Rafa's considerable efforts in amassing some quality youngsters will begin to pay dividends over the coming seasons.

In the meantime, depending on youngsters who aren't good enough would be a suicidal and, frankly, idiotic policy.

Having said that I don't know why anyone is bothering to argue with you. You're either:

a) on a wind up
b) colossally stupid.

As I've intimated before, I happen to think it's a).

 

[rage]

[quote author=Delinquent link=topic=36729.msg972659#msg972659 date=1256661736]
[quote author=rage link=topic=36729.msg972605#msg972605 date=1256659840]
[quote author=keniget link=topic=36729.msg972597#msg972597 date=1256659265]
I see you're trying to worm your way out of answering the question. Colour me surprised.

For all the thousands of pounds you spend, you would barely know Kelly's name had it not been for that performance against Lyon.

So with the assumption that you don't think Rafa buys shit players knowing that they're shit - only a madman would think that - and your theory that a cash strapped club should rely on it's youth, I'm guessing that you were in favour of not buying Riera and instead using Hammill. And not buying Yossi, but instead using Anderson. Amirite? We'd have been £20M-£25M better off I reckon.
[/quote]

i'd be please if rafa bought players that he'd actually seen.

yossi was a replacement for garcia
and yes i would have given hamill a go before panic buying riera.
[/quote]

There's a reason very few youngsters have come through under Rafa - it's because they simply haven't been good enough. Look where they are now and you'll get a pretty decent indication of their level. Hopefully Rafa's considerable efforts in amassing some quality youngsters will begin to pay dividends over the coming seasons.

In the meantime, depending on youngsters who aren't good enough would be a suicidal and, frankly, idiotic policy.

Having said that I don't know why anyone is bothering to argue with you. You're either:

a) on a wind up
b) colossally stupid.

As I've intimated before, I happen to think it's a).
[/quote]

as opposed to spending millions and/or persevering on players who's best we've seen and we know will never be good enough?

 

[mark1975]

[quote author=rage link=topic=36729.msg972661#msg972661 date=1256661880]
[quote author=Delinquent link=topic=36729.msg972659#msg972659 date=1256661736]
[quote author=rage link=topic=36729.msg972605#msg972605 date=1256659840]
[quote author=keniget link=topic=36729.msg972597#msg972597 date=1256659265]
I see you're trying to worm your way out of answering the question. Colour me surprised.

For all the thousands of pounds you spend, you would barely know Kelly's name had it not been for that performance against Lyon.

So with the assumption that you don't think Rafa buys shit players knowing that they're shit - only a madman would think that - and your theory that a cash strapped club should rely on it's youth, I'm guessing that you were in favour of not buying Riera and instead using Hammill. And not buying Yossi, but instead using Anderson. Amirite? We'd have been £20M-£25M better off I reckon.
[/quote]

i'd be please if rafa bought players that he'd actually seen.

yossi was a replacement for garcia
and yes i would have given hamill a go before panic buying riera.
[/quote]

There's a reason very few youngsters have come through under Rafa - it's because they simply haven't been good enough. Look where they are now and you'll get a pretty decent indication of their level. Hopefully Rafa's considerable efforts in amassing some quality youngsters will begin to pay dividends over the coming seasons.

In the meantime, depending on youngsters who aren't good enough would be a suicidal and, frankly, idiotic policy.

Having said that I don't know why anyone is bothering to argue with you. You're either:

a) on a wind up
b) colossally stupid.

As I've intimated before, I happen to think it's a).
[/quote]

as opposed to spending millions and/or persevering on players who's best we've seen and we know will never be good enough?
[/quote]

This is how tainted your argument is.. Who's he persevering with?? Only Lucas seems a unanimous question mark, with maybe Insua, while both are still young with room and time to improve. You're making it sound like it's a team of duds. Who would you take out? Who is our 'terrible' manager putting too much faith in??

Reina?
Johnson?
Agger?
Carra?
Gerrard?
Kuyt?
Yossi?
Torres?
Mascherano?
Aurelio?

They're all, with Lucas and Insua our other 'ever presents', players like Dossena aren't even getting a look in, so who are all these players he's 'persevering with'?

 

[Delinquent]

[quote author=rage link=topic=36729.msg972661#msg972661 date=1256661880]
[quote author=Delinquent link=topic=36729.msg972659#msg972659 date=1256661736]
[quote author=rage link=topic=36729.msg972605#msg972605 date=1256659840]
[quote author=keniget link=topic=36729.msg972597#msg972597 date=1256659265]
I see you're trying to worm your way out of answering the question. Colour me surprised.

For all the thousands of pounds you spend, you would barely know Kelly's name had it not been for that performance against Lyon.

So with the assumption that you don't think Rafa buys shit players knowing that they're shit - only a madman would think that - and your theory that a cash strapped club should rely on it's youth, I'm guessing that you were in favour of not buying Riera and instead using Hammill. And not buying Yossi, but instead using Anderson. Amirite? We'd have been £20M-£25M better off I reckon.
[/quote]

i'd be please if rafa bought players that he'd actually seen.

yossi was a replacement for garcia
and yes i would have given hamill a go before panic buying riera.
[/quote]

There's a reason very few youngsters have come through under Rafa - it's because they simply haven't been good enough. Look where they are now and you'll get a pretty decent indication of their level. Hopefully Rafa's considerable efforts in amassing some quality youngsters will begin to pay dividends over the coming seasons.

In the meantime, depending on youngsters who aren't good enough would be a suicidal and, frankly, idiotic policy.

Having said that I don't know why anyone is bothering to argue with you. You're either:

a) on a wind up
b) colossally stupid.

As I've intimated before, I happen to think it's a).
[/quote]

as opposed to spending millions and/or persevering on players who's best we've seen and we know will never be good enough?
[/quote]

Every transfer carries with it a risk. Some he's got right, some he hasn't. That doesn't mean you don't try to improve.

Anyway, I'm not going to get involved. You're clearly enjoying being the centre of attention.

 

[Squiggles]

Benítez has joined Arsenal, Sevilla, Juventus and Milan in the chase for 17-year-old "Georgian wonderkid" Zhano Ananidze

Guardian..

Anyone heard of him?

 

[keniget]

How can the likes of Sami and Finnan be considered winners if you only measure success in league titles?

 

[lechop]

[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=36729.msg971668#msg971668 date=1256552970]
I think that was one of the best goals/moments in football I've witnessed in a long time.

Lucas wins plays it (on the edge of our box) wide to Kuyt, Kuyt with a BRILLIANT ball inside to return to Lucas, and then a nicely weighted through ball, and that finish was just exquisite, a 'proper' striker's finish.

I really like this lad.
[/quote]

Nice finish, rubbish celebration.

 

[LeTallecWiz]

[quote author=keniget link=topic=36729.msg972677#msg972677 date=1256663465]
How can the likes of Sami and Finnan be considered winners if you only measure success in league titles?
[/quote]

^^^

 

[rage]

[quote author=keniget link=topic=36729.msg972677#msg972677 date=1256663465]
How can the likes of Sami and Finnan be considered winners if you only measure success in league titles?
[/quote]

there's a difference between winners and success just as there's a difference between supporting rafa and supporting liverpool. as i said earlier some people just aren't sophisticated to pick up on these subtleties.

and mark, typical rafa fan argument lets shift the issue. 8 million pounds is all he's wasted?

 

[manwithnoname]

Anyone claiming Benitez is 'flawless' in the transfer market and hasn't wasted lots of money is a deluded bell-end

The End

 

[keniget]

[quote author=rage link=topic=36729.msg972745#msg972745 date=1256670470]
[quote author=keniget link=topic=36729.msg972677#msg972677 date=1256663465]
How can the likes of Sami and Finnan be considered winners if you only measure success in league titles?
[/quote]

there's a difference between winners and success just as there's a difference between supporting rafa and supporting liverpool. as i said earlier some people just aren't sophisticated to pick up on these subtleties.
[/quote]

Explain them then. I want to understand what criteria you use to determine whether a player is a winner and I want to understand how that aligns itself with your statement about success only being measured in league titles.

 

[rage]

[quote author=keniget link=topic=36729.msg972754#msg972754 date=1256670993]
[quote author=rage link=topic=36729.msg972745#msg972745 date=1256670470]
[quote author=keniget link=topic=36729.msg972677#msg972677 date=1256663465]
How can the likes of Sami and Finnan be considered winners if you only measure success in league titles?
[/quote]

there's a difference between winners and success just as there's a difference between supporting rafa and supporting liverpool. as i said earlier some people just aren't sophisticated to pick up on these subtleties.
[/quote]

Explain them then. I want to understand what criteria you use to determine whether a player is a winner and I want to understand how that aligns itself with your statement about success only being measured in league titles.
[/quote]

remind me what rafa was brought in to do? i remember the interview parry gave do you? that is what we measure success against. rafa was brought in to deliver the league was he not? until he delivers he is a failure.

our players such as hyypia are winners because winning tournaments like the fa cup, the uefa cup, the carling cup, the champions league, the super cup is what they measure success by.

there is a difference between a player being a winner and a manager being a success. its there right in front of you if you can acknowledge that rafa has wasted far more than 8 million in his tenure with us and to date has failed to deliver what he was brought in for.

 

[mark1975]

[quote author=Brendan link=topic=36729.msg972753#msg972753 date=1256670904]
Anyone claiming Benitez is 'flawless' in the transfer market and hasn't wasted lots of money is a deluded bell-end

The End
[/quote]

But no one is, if you read the thread, it's just Rage misquoting people to suit his own agenda, as per.

 

[manwithnoname]

I thought I saw exactly that quote a few pages ago, and given it wasn't spidey, assumed it wasn't a collossal failure of humour/ common sense/irony/having a fucking clue

 

[mark1975]

[quote author=rage link=topic=36729.msg972745#msg972745 date=1256670470]


and mark, typical rafa fan argument lets shift the issue. 8 million pounds is all he's wasted?
[/quote]

This was made clear in the original quote, and has been made clear since, so why are you trying to make out otherwise? All you've done on this thread is confirm what we already knew, that you're on a windup.

Why are you even bothering to misquote something when all people have to do is read the original comment?

Is there any valid reason why this bellend is still allowed to post on this forum?

 

[mark1975]

[quote author=Brendan link=topic=36729.msg972775#msg972775 date=1256673014]
I thought I saw exactly that quote a few pages ago, and given it wasn't spidey, assumed it wasn't a collossal failure of humour/ common sense/irony/having a fucking clue
[/quote]

haha... I can't even arsed going over the original post again, but suffice to say this cunt has misquoted it to fuel his own tedious agenda.

 

[mark1975]

[quote author=rage link=topic=36729.msg972766#msg972766 date=1256671777]
until he delivers he is a failure.
[/quote]

Despite winning the CL, getting us to another CL final, winning the FA Cup and showing progression in the league? No one's saying he's flawless, but your black and white view point allows for nothing, until you're challenged and then you get all selective about which grey areas you want to use.

 

[dee]

[quote author=KopKing link=topic=36729.msg972415#msg972415 date=1256642665]
[quote author=rage link=topic=36729.msg972407#msg972407 date=1256641910]
benitez has more than his fair share of shite transfers. pelegrino, voronin, josemi and morientes doesn't really scratch the surface.

i haven't got a problem with n'gog at 1.5 million but i'd have liked to have seen owen here if we could have got him on the same deal as utd did. i don't think its owen or n'gog but rather owen or voronin.

[/quote]

Every manager, even Paisley & Shankly, bought duds more than there fair share too. It's part of the game. The combined total of the players you mentioned doesnt even total £8m.

At least Voronin has proved he wants to play for Liverpool and for the Manager.
[/quote]

The £8M quote, I'm still loving the how to save £25M quote by filling our defence with 18/19 year olds

 

[rage]

well you've yet to answer my question mark. why use 8 million as an example? why use pellagrino voronin morientes and josemi as your examples?

and now you want me banned for pulling u up on that. grow up. u were out to disguise rafa's fuck ups in the transfer market.

 

[rage]

[quote author=Dee link=topic=36729.msg972794#msg972794 date=1256673921]
[quote author=KopKing link=topic=36729.msg972415#msg972415 date=1256642665]
[quote author=rage link=topic=36729.msg972407#msg972407 date=1256641910]
benitez has more than his fair share of shite transfers. pelegrino, voronin, josemi and morientes doesn't really scratch the surface.

i haven't got a problem with n'gog at 1.5 million but i'd have liked to have seen owen here if we could have got him on the same deal as utd did. i don't think its owen or n'gog but rather owen or voronin.

[/quote]

Every manager, even Paisley & Shankly, bought duds more than there fair share too. It's part of the game. The combined total of the players you mentioned doesnt even total £8m.

At least Voronin has proved he wants to play for Liverpool and for the Manager.
[/quote]

The £8M quote, I'm still loving the how to save £25M quote by filling our defence with 18/19 year olds
[/quote]

but you're no longer doubting that there is 25 million pounds there are you?

 

[dee]

[quote author=rage link=topic=36729.msg972807#msg972807 date=1256675068]
well you've yet to answer my question mark. why use 8 million as an example? why use pellagrino voronin morientes and josemi as your examples?

[/quote]

Read the quote. They are your examples.

You really aren't very good at this

 

[rage]

[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=36729.msg972784#msg972784 date=1256673508]
[quote author=rage link=topic=36729.msg972766#msg972766 date=1256671777]
until he delivers he is a failure.
[/quote]

Despite winning the CL, getting us to another CL final, winning the FA Cup and showing progression in the league? No one's saying he's flawless, but your black and white view point allows for nothing, until you're challenged and then you get all selective about which grey areas you want to use.
[/quote]

why was he brought in mark? come on just say it. it'll do you good

 

[rage]

[quote author=Dee link=topic=36729.msg972811#msg972811 date=1256675161]
[quote author=rage link=topic=36729.msg972807#msg972807 date=1256675068]
well you've yet to answer my question mark. why use 8 million as an example? why use pellagrino voronin morientes and josemi as your examples?

[/quote]

Read the quote. They are your examples.

You really aren't very good at this
[/quote]

can you read? why use them as examples?

 

[Atlas]

More fool you for beliving everythin parry says then rage..success is measured on much more than jus winnin the league.though of course it is the ultimate and what a manager should be strivin for

 

[rage]

[quote author=Asim link=topic=36729.msg972817#msg972817 date=1256675346]
More fool you for beliving everythin parry says then rage..success is measured on much more than jus winnin the league.though of course it is the ultimate and what a manager should be strivin for
[/quote]

so now who's changing the goalposts?

you all know why rafa was brought in, i need say no more on the matter here.