Sorry KHL
Merry Xmas
Merry Xmas
Next Liverpool Manager ? Odds.
- Thread starter Frogfish
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Mouhino won't run the risk of tarnishing his CV by taking the Liverpool gig when the City job is being kept warm for him by Mancini. He'll be given a huge contract and transfer budget at City to compete with Chelsea and United.
He won't get either of those things at Liverpool.
He won't get either of those things at Liverpool.
T
the_khl
Guest
[quote author=Brendan link=topic=38065.msg1019494#msg1019494 date=1261478907]
Khl, quite happy to rip you to fucking shreds if you want
Last time you had to call in the mods, if I recall
Let's not allow it to get that brutal, hmm?
[/quote]
Don't flatter yourself Brendan, I don't recall I've ever called in the mods. Not once.
You'd like Mourinho appointed whereas I really really don't and I can't see why anyone would really, unless they were completely blinded by the fact he won titles with Chelsea having all the money in the world at his disposal. And if you can't see the obvious almost scary similarities in tactics and approach between Rafa and your favourite Portuguese then it's not my fault either.
We would be far better of trying something/someone different if we were to get rid of Rafa. It wasn't exactly entertaining attacking-minded footie under Houlliers guidance either, so it's been a while since we've had a manager not affraid of removing the shackles when needed.
PS The reason why the British medias love Mourinho is beacuse he sells papers. The reason why he sells papers is because he's extremely controversial and often far of the mark. I do not like Mourinho the manager nor his childish media-antics and I'd be surprised if I were the only one.
Khl, quite happy to rip you to fucking shreds if you want
Last time you had to call in the mods, if I recall
Let's not allow it to get that brutal, hmm?
[/quote]
Don't flatter yourself Brendan, I don't recall I've ever called in the mods. Not once.
You'd like Mourinho appointed whereas I really really don't and I can't see why anyone would really, unless they were completely blinded by the fact he won titles with Chelsea having all the money in the world at his disposal. And if you can't see the obvious almost scary similarities in tactics and approach between Rafa and your favourite Portuguese then it's not my fault either.
We would be far better of trying something/someone different if we were to get rid of Rafa. It wasn't exactly entertaining attacking-minded footie under Houlliers guidance either, so it's been a while since we've had a manager not affraid of removing the shackles when needed.
PS The reason why the British medias love Mourinho is beacuse he sells papers. The reason why he sells papers is because he's extremely controversial and often far of the mark. I do not like Mourinho the manager nor his childish media-antics and I'd be surprised if I were the only one.
T
the_khl
Guest
[quote author=Brendan link=topic=38065.msg1019498#msg1019498 date=1261479259]
Sorry KHL
Merry Xmas
[/quote]
Merry Xmas to you to Bren.
And to everyone else on 6CM (who's celebrating Chrimbo).
Sorry KHL
Merry Xmas
[/quote]
Merry Xmas to you to Bren.
And to everyone else on 6CM (who's celebrating Chrimbo).
No, you like managers who have 'proven their pedigree on the pitch' which is, as any expert in world football knows, absolutely *vital* when looking for a potential manager
Ooh, laudrup - seen him play! ( And is fucking danish, what a cunting surprise, fucking hell, I'd give up supporting my home club if that ever happened)
Ooh, laudrup - seen him play! ( And is fucking danish, what a cunting surprise, fucking hell, I'd give up supporting my home club if that ever happened)
Oh and a happy new year!
[quote author=the_khl link=topic=38065.msg1019511#msg1019511 date=1261481599]
You'd like Mourinho appointed whereas I really really don't and I can't see why anyone would really, unless they were completely blinded by the fact he won titles with Chelsea having all the money in the world at his disposal. And if you can't see the obvious almost scary similarities in tactics and approach between Rafa and your favourite Portuguese then it's not my fault either.
[/quote]
He didn't have all the money in the world at Porto, KHL.
He did the business there, yes? Succes in Europe and domestically.
He earned the right to have a crack at a 'big' club.
He got that crack and he was very successful. He's a proven manager at the highest level in world football.
What more do you want?
I know there is no chance of him coming here, but you must be insane to not want him here as our next manager.
You'd like Mourinho appointed whereas I really really don't and I can't see why anyone would really, unless they were completely blinded by the fact he won titles with Chelsea having all the money in the world at his disposal. And if you can't see the obvious almost scary similarities in tactics and approach between Rafa and your favourite Portuguese then it's not my fault either.
[/quote]
He didn't have all the money in the world at Porto, KHL.
He did the business there, yes? Succes in Europe and domestically.
He earned the right to have a crack at a 'big' club.
He got that crack and he was very successful. He's a proven manager at the highest level in world football.
What more do you want?
I know there is no chance of him coming here, but you must be insane to not want him here as our next manager.
T
the_khl
Guest
[quote author=Brendan link=topic=38065.msg1019489#msg1019489 date=1261478620]
Pedigree on the pitch?
WHAT THE *FUCK* DOES THAT FUCKING MATTER?
Jeus fucking Christ what the fuck are you quacking on about?
Shut up!
[/quote]
Obviously it's not the most important attribute in a manager but I actually do reckon you'd get something different with a manager who's actually been playing at highest level throughout his career.
Managers like Mourinho, Rafa et all tend to get extremely thorough in their tactical approach, analyzing the game down to every little tiny detail. This is mostly for the better I reckon but sometimes they seem to forget that football is still about players (humans) and not bits an bytes you can program.
It may be a romantical view on the game but I'm personally exgtremely pleased to see a former player like Guardiola doing so well at Barca as he does and I'd love to see more top-managers in the game who's been playing at the very top themselves. Felt it on their own skin if you like.
I'm sure it would make the game more interesting from the fans point of view and overall more attacking-minded and maybe a little less tactical.
Pedigree on the pitch?
WHAT THE *FUCK* DOES THAT FUCKING MATTER?
Jeus fucking Christ what the fuck are you quacking on about?
Shut up!
[/quote]
Obviously it's not the most important attribute in a manager but I actually do reckon you'd get something different with a manager who's actually been playing at highest level throughout his career.
Managers like Mourinho, Rafa et all tend to get extremely thorough in their tactical approach, analyzing the game down to every little tiny detail. This is mostly for the better I reckon but sometimes they seem to forget that football is still about players (humans) and not bits an bytes you can program.
It may be a romantical view on the game but I'm personally exgtremely pleased to see a former player like Guardiola doing so well at Barca as he does and I'd love to see more top-managers in the game who's been playing at the very top themselves. Felt it on their own skin if you like.
I'm sure it would make the game more interesting from the fans point of view and overall more attacking-minded and maybe a little less tactical.
If Mourinho came and won the league he could play 8-1-1, winning 1-0 via a penalty each time as far as I'm concerned.
T
the_khl
Guest
[quote author=Stu link=topic=38065.msg1019523#msg1019523 date=1261482436]
[quote author=the_khl link=topic=38065.msg1019511#msg1019511 date=1261481599]
You'd like Mourinho appointed whereas I really really don't and I can't see why anyone would really, unless they were completely blinded by the fact he won titles with Chelsea having all the money in the world at his disposal. And if you can't see the obvious almost scary similarities in tactics and approach between Rafa and your favourite Portuguese then it's not my fault either.
[/quote]
He didn't have all the money in the world at Porto, KHL.
He did the business there, yes? Succes in Europe and domestically.
He earned the right to have a crack at a 'big' club.
He got that crack and he was very successful. He's a proven manager at the highest level in world football.
What more do you want?
I know there is no chance of him coming here, but you must be insane to not want him here as our next manager.
[/quote]
Rafa dind't have all the money in the world at his disposal at Valencia either?
As said Mourinho has proved himself as a topmanager already, but my main issue with him is that he's so familiar with Rafa in style and approach it would be laughable to appoint him to take us upwards and upwards after Rafa.
I want someone who's not first and foremost defensive-minded and extremely cautios.
That's all.
[quote author=the_khl link=topic=38065.msg1019511#msg1019511 date=1261481599]
You'd like Mourinho appointed whereas I really really don't and I can't see why anyone would really, unless they were completely blinded by the fact he won titles with Chelsea having all the money in the world at his disposal. And if you can't see the obvious almost scary similarities in tactics and approach between Rafa and your favourite Portuguese then it's not my fault either.
[/quote]
He didn't have all the money in the world at Porto, KHL.
He did the business there, yes? Succes in Europe and domestically.
He earned the right to have a crack at a 'big' club.
He got that crack and he was very successful. He's a proven manager at the highest level in world football.
What more do you want?
I know there is no chance of him coming here, but you must be insane to not want him here as our next manager.
[/quote]
Rafa dind't have all the money in the world at his disposal at Valencia either?
As said Mourinho has proved himself as a topmanager already, but my main issue with him is that he's so familiar with Rafa in style and approach it would be laughable to appoint him to take us upwards and upwards after Rafa.
I want someone who's not first and foremost defensive-minded and extremely cautios.
That's all.
T
the_khl
Guest
[quote author=SaintGeorge67 link=topic=38065.msg1019530#msg1019530 date=1261482656]
If Mourinho came and won the league he could play 8-1-1, winning 1-0 via a penalty each time as far as I'm concerned.
[/quote]
Agreed.
But have you ever considered that we might end up 3rd and 2nd and then 4th playing even more defensive-minded and uninspiring than when compared to enjoying a bad path under Rafa?
Why do you guys think Mourinho is dead certain to win us the title?
Why oh why.
If Mourinho came and won the league he could play 8-1-1, winning 1-0 via a penalty each time as far as I'm concerned.
[/quote]
Agreed.
But have you ever considered that we might end up 3rd and 2nd and then 4th playing even more defensive-minded and uninspiring than when compared to enjoying a bad path under Rafa?
Why do you guys think Mourinho is dead certain to win us the title?
Why oh why.
[quote author=the_khl link=topic=38065.msg1019524#msg1019524 date=1261482457]
It may be a romantical view on the game but I'm personally exgtremely pleased to see a former player like Guardiola doing so well at Barca as he does and I'd love to see more top-managers in the game who's been playing at the very top themselves. Felt it on their own skin if you like.
I'm sure it would make the game more interesting from the fans point of view and overall more attacking-minded and maybe a little less tactical.
[/quote]
I like you KHL, so don't think I am being picky with you here.
Just a quick point on the post I quoted above.
How can you dismiss what Mourhino has done in his career due to having 'all the money in the world' and then be happy for Pep Guardiola after he inherited the best squad of players in Europe? Its not as if Pep put that team together or signed any of the youth players for the academy, is it?
Obviously Pep deserves great credit for the job he has done, no question. But I think Mourhino has proven himself in three european leagus and in Europe, he has built three teams and they have all won the league. I really don't get why you are oppossed to a man who has the best shot of delivering what we all want more than anything, the league title.
It may be a romantical view on the game but I'm personally exgtremely pleased to see a former player like Guardiola doing so well at Barca as he does and I'd love to see more top-managers in the game who's been playing at the very top themselves. Felt it on their own skin if you like.
I'm sure it would make the game more interesting from the fans point of view and overall more attacking-minded and maybe a little less tactical.
[/quote]
I like you KHL, so don't think I am being picky with you here.
Just a quick point on the post I quoted above.
How can you dismiss what Mourhino has done in his career due to having 'all the money in the world' and then be happy for Pep Guardiola after he inherited the best squad of players in Europe? Its not as if Pep put that team together or signed any of the youth players for the academy, is it?
Obviously Pep deserves great credit for the job he has done, no question. But I think Mourhino has proven himself in three european leagus and in Europe, he has built three teams and they have all won the league. I really don't get why you are oppossed to a man who has the best shot of delivering what we all want more than anything, the league title.
I don't think Mourinho is certain to win us the league, but it's reasonable to say he has a better chance than most.
[quote author=the_khl link=topic=38065.msg1019534#msg1019534 date=1261482872]
[quote author=SaintGeorge67 link=topic=38065.msg1019530#msg1019530 date=1261482656]
If Mourinho came and won the league he could play 8-1-1, winning 1-0 via a penalty each time as far as I'm concerned.
[/quote]
Agreed.
But have you ever considered that we might end up 3rd and 2nd and then 4th playing even more defensive-minded and uninspiring than when compared to enjoying a bad path under Rafa?
Why do you guys think Mourinho is dead certain to win us the title?
Why oh why.
[/quote]
Noone thinks he's 'dead certain' to win us the title!
But of those managers who are potentially available he's one of the most successful and more likely to.
[quote author=SaintGeorge67 link=topic=38065.msg1019530#msg1019530 date=1261482656]
If Mourinho came and won the league he could play 8-1-1, winning 1-0 via a penalty each time as far as I'm concerned.
[/quote]
Agreed.
But have you ever considered that we might end up 3rd and 2nd and then 4th playing even more defensive-minded and uninspiring than when compared to enjoying a bad path under Rafa?
Why do you guys think Mourinho is dead certain to win us the title?
Why oh why.
[/quote]
Noone thinks he's 'dead certain' to win us the title!
But of those managers who are potentially available he's one of the most successful and more likely to.
[quote author=the_khl link=topic=38065.msg1019531#msg1019531 date=1261482710]
Rafa dind't have all the money in the world at his disposal at Valencia either?
As said Mourinho has proved himself as a topmanager already, but my main issue with him is that he's so familiar with Rafa in style and approach it would be laughable to appoint him to take us upwards and upwards after Rafa.
I want someone who's not first and foremost defensive-minded and extremely cautios.
That's all.
[/quote]
Who is talking about Rafa at Valencia? He may not have had the money, but what he did have was an excellent squad that was put together by Cuper. As has been shown during his time with Liverpool, building a title winning squad is not a strength of his.
Familiar in style and approach? Tactically, both may be considered defensive to a degree, but Mourhino offers more away from the tactical side (something you said it would nice to get away from by using ex players who have played at the highest level). He would encourage the players through good man management and basic human warmth. Rafa never puts an arm around the shoulder, a claim made in both Gerrard's and Carra's books. He would also take the focus away from the players and poor performances, something he was excellent at at Chelsea. He would build a seige mentallity into the squad.
I just want a winner. Jose Mourhino is a winner.
Rafa dind't have all the money in the world at his disposal at Valencia either?
As said Mourinho has proved himself as a topmanager already, but my main issue with him is that he's so familiar with Rafa in style and approach it would be laughable to appoint him to take us upwards and upwards after Rafa.
I want someone who's not first and foremost defensive-minded and extremely cautios.
That's all.
[/quote]
Who is talking about Rafa at Valencia? He may not have had the money, but what he did have was an excellent squad that was put together by Cuper. As has been shown during his time with Liverpool, building a title winning squad is not a strength of his.
Familiar in style and approach? Tactically, both may be considered defensive to a degree, but Mourhino offers more away from the tactical side (something you said it would nice to get away from by using ex players who have played at the highest level). He would encourage the players through good man management and basic human warmth. Rafa never puts an arm around the shoulder, a claim made in both Gerrard's and Carra's books. He would also take the focus away from the players and poor performances, something he was excellent at at Chelsea. He would build a seige mentallity into the squad.
I just want a winner. Jose Mourhino is a winner.
T
the_khl
Guest
[quote author=Brendan link=topic=38065.msg1019515#msg1019515 date=1261481797]
No, you like managers who have 'proven their pedigree on the pitch' which is, as any expert in world football knows, absolutely *vital* when looking for a potential manager
Ooh, laudrup - seen him play! ( And is fucking danish, what a cunting surprise, fucking hell, I'd give up supporting my home club if that ever happened)
[/quote]
I've not used the word vital. For starters can you please use the quote-button instead of just misquoting posts to suit your own argument?
It's pretty annoying
Yeah yeah I know Laudrup is a fucking long-shot, but the fact remains he want's to play an attractive goal-seeking style football. And he'll attract top-talent from everywhere too.
Van Basten, Guardiola and perhaps even Rijkaard would do pretty much the same. That's the type of manager I want us to attract. Not Benitez Mark 'Something a Little More or a Little Less'.
You could argue they are actually upcoming talented managers just like Mourinho was back in his day at Porto.
Imagine if we were to appoint a completely Premiership-unproven Portuguese manager like Jesualdo Ferreira (the current FC Porto one who's doing a very good job at the moment) wouldn't you be extremely against that as well?
Chelsea took a gamble with Mourinho and won I'm not sure we'd get the same rub of the green should we just decide to walk in their footsteps.
No, you like managers who have 'proven their pedigree on the pitch' which is, as any expert in world football knows, absolutely *vital* when looking for a potential manager
Ooh, laudrup - seen him play! ( And is fucking danish, what a cunting surprise, fucking hell, I'd give up supporting my home club if that ever happened)
[/quote]
I've not used the word vital. For starters can you please use the quote-button instead of just misquoting posts to suit your own argument?
It's pretty annoying
Yeah yeah I know Laudrup is a fucking long-shot, but the fact remains he want's to play an attractive goal-seeking style football. And he'll attract top-talent from everywhere too.
Van Basten, Guardiola and perhaps even Rijkaard would do pretty much the same. That's the type of manager I want us to attract. Not Benitez Mark 'Something a Little More or a Little Less'.
You could argue they are actually upcoming talented managers just like Mourinho was back in his day at Porto.
Imagine if we were to appoint a completely Premiership-unproven Portuguese manager like Jesualdo Ferreira (the current FC Porto one who's doing a very good job at the moment) wouldn't you be extremely against that as well?
Chelsea took a gamble with Mourinho and won I'm not sure we'd get the same rub of the green should we just decide to walk in their footsteps.
He won the European Cup & UEFA Cup with Porto, KHL.
Seriously, how was he a gamble?
Why should we give Van Basten the gig? What has he done in management to deserve it? Mourihno was an 'up and coming manager' that was winning every trophy it was possible for him to win.
You digging youself into a hole here, KHL.
Seriously, how was he a gamble?
Why should we give Van Basten the gig? What has he done in management to deserve it? Mourihno was an 'up and coming manager' that was winning every trophy it was possible for him to win.
You digging youself into a hole here, KHL.
[quote author=Brendan link=topic=38065.msg1019471#msg1019471 date=1261477772]
And as for those bellends bleating on about 'the Liverpool way', 'negative, ugly football' blah blah blah, I have some words of advice and education:
Shut the cunt up, you haven't got a fucking clue what you're on about.
We aren't *interested* in beautiful attacking football unless it wins trophies.
All Liverpool exists for is *to win trophies*
That's it, nothing more.
[/quote]
Nail on the head.
Fuck off you TLW cunts. It's 20 years since we won a fucking title,and will be another 20 if we carry on accepting that Football has moved on.
And as for those bellends bleating on about 'the Liverpool way', 'negative, ugly football' blah blah blah, I have some words of advice and education:
Shut the cunt up, you haven't got a fucking clue what you're on about.
We aren't *interested* in beautiful attacking football unless it wins trophies.
All Liverpool exists for is *to win trophies*
That's it, nothing more.
[/quote]
Nail on the head.
Fuck off you TLW cunts. It's 20 years since we won a fucking title,and will be another 20 if we carry on accepting that Football has moved on.
T
the_khl
Guest
[quote author=Stu link=topic=38065.msg1019542#msg1019542 date=1261483623]
[quote author=the_khl link=topic=38065.msg1019531#msg1019531 date=1261482710]
Rafa dind't have all the money in the world at his disposal at Valencia either?
As said Mourinho has proved himself as a topmanager already, but my main issue with him is that he's so familiar with Rafa in style and approach it would be laughable to appoint him to take us upwards and upwards after Rafa.
I want someone who's not first and foremost defensive-minded and extremely cautios.
That's all.
[/quote]
Who is talking about Rafa at Valencia? He may not have had the money, but what he did have was an excellent squad that was put together by Cuper. As has been shown during his time with Liverpool, building a title winning squad is not a strength of his.
Familiar in style and approach? Tactically, both may be considered defensive to a degree, but Mourhino offers more away from the tactical side (something you said it would nice to get away from by using ex players who have played at the highest level). He would encourage the players through good man management and basic human warmth. Rafa never puts an arm around the shoulder, a claim made in both Gerrard's and Carra's books. He would also take the focus away from the players and poor performances, something he was excellent at at Chelsea. He would build a seige mentallity into the squad.
I just want a winner. Jose Mourhino is a winner.
[/quote]
Cudos for the nice quoting-job mate.
I don't know about the 'arm around the shoulders' issue, maybe there's something to it but hasn't players turned on Mourinho afterwards as well?
Anywho, I do know that Rafa knocked Mourinho's Chelsea out of the one League he was appointed to win. The Champions League. And he did so twice. So I'm not so sure about who's the better tactician of the two.
I'm sure Rafa would've won the Premiership-title at Chelsea too btw. It's extremely hypothetical but not more so than e.g. saying Mourinho is the best choice to take us upwards and onwards. You're guessing and predicting based on his great achievements at Chelsea but their situation back then are not at all comparable to the situation we're in. Hence he probably wouldn't come anyways.
Which is great.
[quote author=the_khl link=topic=38065.msg1019531#msg1019531 date=1261482710]
Rafa dind't have all the money in the world at his disposal at Valencia either?
As said Mourinho has proved himself as a topmanager already, but my main issue with him is that he's so familiar with Rafa in style and approach it would be laughable to appoint him to take us upwards and upwards after Rafa.
I want someone who's not first and foremost defensive-minded and extremely cautios.
That's all.
[/quote]
Who is talking about Rafa at Valencia? He may not have had the money, but what he did have was an excellent squad that was put together by Cuper. As has been shown during his time with Liverpool, building a title winning squad is not a strength of his.
Familiar in style and approach? Tactically, both may be considered defensive to a degree, but Mourhino offers more away from the tactical side (something you said it would nice to get away from by using ex players who have played at the highest level). He would encourage the players through good man management and basic human warmth. Rafa never puts an arm around the shoulder, a claim made in both Gerrard's and Carra's books. He would also take the focus away from the players and poor performances, something he was excellent at at Chelsea. He would build a seige mentallity into the squad.
I just want a winner. Jose Mourhino is a winner.
[/quote]
Cudos for the nice quoting-job mate.
I don't know about the 'arm around the shoulders' issue, maybe there's something to it but hasn't players turned on Mourinho afterwards as well?
Anywho, I do know that Rafa knocked Mourinho's Chelsea out of the one League he was appointed to win. The Champions League. And he did so twice. So I'm not so sure about who's the better tactician of the two.
I'm sure Rafa would've won the Premiership-title at Chelsea too btw. It's extremely hypothetical but not more so than e.g. saying Mourinho is the best choice to take us upwards and onwards. You're guessing and predicting based on his great achievements at Chelsea but their situation back then are not at all comparable to the situation we're in. Hence he probably wouldn't come anyways.
Which is great.
[quote author=SaintGeorge67 link=topic=38065.msg1019530#msg1019530 date=1261482656]
If Mourinho came and won the league he could play 8-1-1, winning 1-0 via a penalty each time as far as I'm concerned.
[/quote]
This whole idea that people don't care what type of football we play as long as we win is great and all, but I think the evidence has shown that you HAVE to play good, attacking football to win the league.
United have always done so, Arsenal when they won it did so, Blackburn had "SoS" upfront banging in the goals when they won it.. and Chelsea blew away teams with Duff, Joe Cole and Robben on the wings when they won it.
There's is some merit in what khl is saying about trying something different. If we get a defensive manager we won't win the title (almost certainly). We'll float safely from 2nd to 6th as we have done under Rafa. An attacking manager like Laudrup or Rijkaard could possibly take us top, but they could also take us further down.. from 1st to 10th. But in this scenario, there's actually a chance of winning it.
Now, obviously the case of Mourinho arguably contradicts what I said above. He really is a *special* case, in that he's a defensive manager who won the title with some attacking football. How? Well, lets be honest, he had almost a quarter of a billion to spend on the EXACT players he wanted that would suit his defensive style but still provide enough attacking potential to win the league. Players like Drogba and Essien cost nigh-on 60m, and are both PERFECT players for Mourinho's system in both a defensive and attacking capacity. If we had all the money in the world, then Jose would easily be the best man for the job. But we don't, and KHL's concerns over Mourinho's style of play (given our lack of funds to fully support him getting the right players) is fair enough.
The thing, I think, KHL really underestimates about Mourinho is his winner's mentality and infectious personality. Love his antics or hate them, Jose gets his players playing with confidence and in a state of mind where they are willing to die for him and his cause. That sort of man-management is sorely lacking in Rafa and I think it's vital for any team pushing for titles.
If Mourinho came and won the league he could play 8-1-1, winning 1-0 via a penalty each time as far as I'm concerned.
[/quote]
This whole idea that people don't care what type of football we play as long as we win is great and all, but I think the evidence has shown that you HAVE to play good, attacking football to win the league.
United have always done so, Arsenal when they won it did so, Blackburn had "SoS" upfront banging in the goals when they won it.. and Chelsea blew away teams with Duff, Joe Cole and Robben on the wings when they won it.
There's is some merit in what khl is saying about trying something different. If we get a defensive manager we won't win the title (almost certainly). We'll float safely from 2nd to 6th as we have done under Rafa. An attacking manager like Laudrup or Rijkaard could possibly take us top, but they could also take us further down.. from 1st to 10th. But in this scenario, there's actually a chance of winning it.
Now, obviously the case of Mourinho arguably contradicts what I said above. He really is a *special* case, in that he's a defensive manager who won the title with some attacking football. How? Well, lets be honest, he had almost a quarter of a billion to spend on the EXACT players he wanted that would suit his defensive style but still provide enough attacking potential to win the league. Players like Drogba and Essien cost nigh-on 60m, and are both PERFECT players for Mourinho's system in both a defensive and attacking capacity. If we had all the money in the world, then Jose would easily be the best man for the job. But we don't, and KHL's concerns over Mourinho's style of play (given our lack of funds to fully support him getting the right players) is fair enough.
The thing, I think, KHL really underestimates about Mourinho is his winner's mentality and infectious personality. Love his antics or hate them, Jose gets his players playing with confidence and in a state of mind where they are willing to die for him and his cause. That sort of man-management is sorely lacking in Rafa and I think it's vital for any team pushing for titles.
T
the_khl
Guest
[quote author=Stu link=topic=38065.msg1019548#msg1019548 date=1261484099]
He won the European Cup & UEFA Cup with Porto, KHL.
Seriously, how was he a gamble?
Why should we give Van Basten the gig? What has he done in management to deserve it? Mourihno was an 'up and coming manager' that was winning every trophy it was possible for him to win.
You digging youself into a hole here, KHL.
[/quote]
Mircea Lucescu won the UEFA Cup with Shaktar. Didier Deschamps came second in the Champions League with AS Monaco that very year Mourinho won it with Porto.
Would appointing those not be a gamble?
He had proved himself but was evidently still a gamble. He was not familiar with British football for one.
Anyways my MAIN ISSUE with appointing Mourinho is that he's far to similiar with Rafa.
Read it again please.
My MAIN ISSUE with appointing Mourinho is that he's far to similiar with Rafa.
I want a different approach and a different manager the next time. Not a spitting image of what we've already got/tried.
He won the European Cup & UEFA Cup with Porto, KHL.
Seriously, how was he a gamble?
Why should we give Van Basten the gig? What has he done in management to deserve it? Mourihno was an 'up and coming manager' that was winning every trophy it was possible for him to win.
You digging youself into a hole here, KHL.
[/quote]
Mircea Lucescu won the UEFA Cup with Shaktar. Didier Deschamps came second in the Champions League with AS Monaco that very year Mourinho won it with Porto.
Would appointing those not be a gamble?
He had proved himself but was evidently still a gamble. He was not familiar with British football for one.
Anyways my MAIN ISSUE with appointing Mourinho is that he's far to similiar with Rafa.
Read it again please.
My MAIN ISSUE with appointing Mourinho is that he's far to similiar with Rafa.
I want a different approach and a different manager the next time. Not a spitting image of what we've already got/tried.
T
the_khl
Guest
[quote author=ibromurph link=topic=38065.msg1019557#msg1019557 date=1261484692]
[quote author=SaintGeorge67 link=topic=38065.msg1019530#msg1019530 date=1261482656]
If Mourinho came and won the league he could play 8-1-1, winning 1-0 via a penalty each time as far as I'm concerned.
[/quote]
This whole idea that people don't care what type of football we play as long as we win is great and all, but I think the evidence has shown that you HAVE to play good, attacking football to win the league.
United have always done so, Arsenal when they won it did so, Blackburn had "SoS" upfront banging in the goals when they won it.. and Chelsea blew away teams with Duff, Joe Cole and Robben on the wings when they won it.
There's is some merit in what khl is saying about trying something different. If we get a defensive manager we won't win the title (almost certainly). We'll float safely from 2nd to 6th as we have done under Rafa. An attacking manager like Laudrup or Rijkaard could possibly take us top, but they could also take us further down.. from 1st to 10th. But in this scenario, there's actually a chance of winning it.
Now, obviously the case of Mourinho arguably contradicts what I said above. He really is a *special* case, in that he's a defensive manager who won the title with some attacking football. How? Well, lets be honest, he had almost a quarter of a billion to spend on the EXACT players he wanted that would suit his defensive style but still provide enough attacking potential to win the league. Players like Drogba and Essien cost nigh-on 60m, and are both PERFECT players for Mourinho's system in both a defensive and attacking capacity. If we had all the money in the world, then Jose would easily be the best man for the job. But we don't, and KHL's concerns over Mourinho's style of play (given our lack of funds to fully support him getting the right players) is fair enough.
The thing, I think, KHL really underestimates about Mourinho is his winner's mentality and infectious personality. Love his antics or hate them, Jose gets his players playing with confidence and in a state of mind where they are willing to die for him and his cause. That sort of man-management is sorely lacking in Rafa and I think it's vital for any team pushing for titles.
[/quote]
You're probably right mate, I am.
I really dislike the guy though, that's my kind of sorry excuse I reckon.
[quote author=SaintGeorge67 link=topic=38065.msg1019530#msg1019530 date=1261482656]
If Mourinho came and won the league he could play 8-1-1, winning 1-0 via a penalty each time as far as I'm concerned.
[/quote]
This whole idea that people don't care what type of football we play as long as we win is great and all, but I think the evidence has shown that you HAVE to play good, attacking football to win the league.
United have always done so, Arsenal when they won it did so, Blackburn had "SoS" upfront banging in the goals when they won it.. and Chelsea blew away teams with Duff, Joe Cole and Robben on the wings when they won it.
There's is some merit in what khl is saying about trying something different. If we get a defensive manager we won't win the title (almost certainly). We'll float safely from 2nd to 6th as we have done under Rafa. An attacking manager like Laudrup or Rijkaard could possibly take us top, but they could also take us further down.. from 1st to 10th. But in this scenario, there's actually a chance of winning it.
Now, obviously the case of Mourinho arguably contradicts what I said above. He really is a *special* case, in that he's a defensive manager who won the title with some attacking football. How? Well, lets be honest, he had almost a quarter of a billion to spend on the EXACT players he wanted that would suit his defensive style but still provide enough attacking potential to win the league. Players like Drogba and Essien cost nigh-on 60m, and are both PERFECT players for Mourinho's system in both a defensive and attacking capacity. If we had all the money in the world, then Jose would easily be the best man for the job. But we don't, and KHL's concerns over Mourinho's style of play (given our lack of funds to fully support him getting the right players) is fair enough.
The thing, I think, KHL really underestimates about Mourinho is his winner's mentality and infectious personality. Love his antics or hate them, Jose gets his players playing with confidence and in a state of mind where they are willing to die for him and his cause. That sort of man-management is sorely lacking in Rafa and I think it's vital for any team pushing for titles.
[/quote]
You're probably right mate, I am.
I really dislike the guy though, that's my kind of sorry excuse I reckon.
T
the_khl
Guest
[quote author=Avmenon link=topic=38065.msg1019528#msg1019528 date=1261482608]
KHL, the point is that no one cares about interesting.
We want to win the title.
There are only 2 names on that list who've won it.
One of them actually wont it for us 19 years ago; I don't think going back to that name is a good idea.
That just leaves the one name.
[/quote]
You are aware that Mourinho nor Wenger to mention a few hadn't won it either when they got appointed, right?
Right.
KHL, the point is that no one cares about interesting.
We want to win the title.
There are only 2 names on that list who've won it.
One of them actually wont it for us 19 years ago; I don't think going back to that name is a good idea.
That just leaves the one name.
[/quote]
You are aware that Mourinho nor Wenger to mention a few hadn't won it either when they got appointed, right?
Right.
The argument about how anyone could win the title at Chelsea is an extremely flawed one. How many of the other managers that they have had have won it?
I'm not saying Mourinho is perfect and would guarantee anything but his record certainly suggests he's a decent bet.
Your argument about former players is also not the greatest you know. Great players don't often become great managers and none of these even have any experience of English football, and in the case of Laudrup, his record as a manager is no great shakes anyway is it?
I'm not saying Mourinho is perfect and would guarantee anything but his record certainly suggests he's a decent bet.
Your argument about former players is also not the greatest you know. Great players don't often become great managers and none of these even have any experience of English football, and in the case of Laudrup, his record as a manager is no great shakes anyway is it?
T
the_khl
Guest
[quote author=Richey link=topic=38065.msg1019561#msg1019561 date=1261485107]
The argument about how anyone could win the title at Chelsea is an extremely flawed one. How many of the other managers that they have had have won it?
I'm not saying Mourinho is perfect and would guarantee anything but his record certainly suggests he's a decent bet.
Your argument about former players is also not the greatest you know. Great players don't often become great managers and none of these even have any experience of English football, and in the case of Laudrup, his record as a manager is no great shakes anyway is it?
[/quote]
I know that mate, I just want us to go for something different the next time that's all.
It would be a gamble I know but hopefully we'd be prepared to take that.
The argument about how anyone could win the title at Chelsea is an extremely flawed one. How many of the other managers that they have had have won it?
I'm not saying Mourinho is perfect and would guarantee anything but his record certainly suggests he's a decent bet.
Your argument about former players is also not the greatest you know. Great players don't often become great managers and none of these even have any experience of English football, and in the case of Laudrup, his record as a manager is no great shakes anyway is it?
[/quote]
I know that mate, I just want us to go for something different the next time that's all.
It would be a gamble I know but hopefully we'd be prepared to take that.
[quote author=the_khl link=topic=38065.msg1019553#msg1019553 date=1261484350]
Cudos for the nice quoting-job mate.
I don't know about the 'arm around the shoulders' issue, maybe there's something to it but hasn't players turned on Mourinho afterwards as well?
Anywho, I do know that Rafa knocked Mourinho's Chelsea out of the one League he was appointed to win. The Champions League. And he did so twice. So I'm not so sure about who's the better tactician of the two.
I'm sure Rafa would've won the Premiership-title at Chelsea too btw. It's extremely hypothetical but not more so than e.g. saying Mourinho is the best choice to take us upwards and onwards. You're guessing and predicting based on his great achievements at Chelsea but their situation back then are not at all comparable to the situation we're in. Hence he probably wouldn't come anyways.
Which is great.
[/quote]
I think had Rafa got the Chelsea job, they would have won the league AND won in Europe.
I don't dispute for one moment that Rafa isn't a master tactician, on his day he can, and has, beaten the very best managers in the world. No one can deny that or deny him the credit he deserves for it either.
I know I am going on about Mourhino a lot here, but I do actaully want Rafa to stay on as manager until the end of the season. If we get top four and pick up a trophy, he should stay. But as the weeks roll by and the performances deteriate to embarrassing levels, it looks more and more likely the club will blink first.
Cudos for the nice quoting-job mate.
I don't know about the 'arm around the shoulders' issue, maybe there's something to it but hasn't players turned on Mourinho afterwards as well?
Anywho, I do know that Rafa knocked Mourinho's Chelsea out of the one League he was appointed to win. The Champions League. And he did so twice. So I'm not so sure about who's the better tactician of the two.
I'm sure Rafa would've won the Premiership-title at Chelsea too btw. It's extremely hypothetical but not more so than e.g. saying Mourinho is the best choice to take us upwards and onwards. You're guessing and predicting based on his great achievements at Chelsea but their situation back then are not at all comparable to the situation we're in. Hence he probably wouldn't come anyways.
Which is great.
[/quote]
I think had Rafa got the Chelsea job, they would have won the league AND won in Europe.
I don't dispute for one moment that Rafa isn't a master tactician, on his day he can, and has, beaten the very best managers in the world. No one can deny that or deny him the credit he deserves for it either.
I know I am going on about Mourhino a lot here, but I do actaully want Rafa to stay on as manager until the end of the season. If we get top four and pick up a trophy, he should stay. But as the weeks roll by and the performances deteriate to embarrassing levels, it looks more and more likely the club will blink first.
[quote author=the_khl link=topic=38065.msg1019559#msg1019559 date=1261485014]
[quote author=ibromurph link=topic=38065.msg1019557#msg1019557 date=1261484692]
[quote author=SaintGeorge67 link=topic=38065.msg1019530#msg1019530 date=1261482656]
If Mourinho came and won the league he could play 8-1-1, winning 1-0 via a penalty each time as far as I'm concerned.
[/quote]
This whole idea that people don't care what type of football we play as long as we win is great and all, but I think the evidence has shown that you HAVE to play good, attacking football to win the league.
United have always done so, Arsenal when they won it did so, Blackburn had "SoS" upfront banging in the goals when they won it.. and Chelsea blew away teams with Duff, Joe Cole and Robben on the wings when they won it.
There's is some merit in what khl is saying about trying something different. If we get a defensive manager we won't win the title (almost certainly). We'll float safely from 2nd to 6th as we have done under Rafa. An attacking manager like Laudrup or Rijkaard could possibly take us top, but they could also take us further down.. from 1st to 10th. But in this scenario, there's actually a chance of winning it.
Now, obviously the case of Mourinho arguably contradicts what I said above. He really is a *special* case, in that he's a defensive manager who won the title with some attacking football. How? Well, lets be honest, he had almost a quarter of a billion to spend on the EXACT players he wanted that would suit his defensive style but still provide enough attacking potential to win the league. Players like Drogba and Essien cost nigh-on 60m, and are both PERFECT players for Mourinho's system in both a defensive and attacking capacity. If we had all the money in the world, then Jose would easily be the best man for the job. But we don't, and KHL's concerns over Mourinho's style of play (given our lack of funds to fully support him getting the right players) is fair enough.
The thing, I think, KHL really underestimates about Mourinho is his winner's mentality and infectious personality. Love his antics or hate them, Jose gets his players playing with confidence and in a state of mind where they are willing to die for him and his cause. That sort of man-management is sorely lacking in Rafa and I think it's vital for any team pushing for titles.
[/quote]
You're probably right mate, I am.
I really dislike the guy though, that's my kind of sorry excuse I reckon.
[/quote]
Mourinho is the only defensive manager I would accept happily as Liverpool manager. His antics are always geared towards getting his team a competitive advantage in much the same way Fergie does.
The way he plays the media, well, I really doubt Jose would have done a "fact-gate" last year and have us stumbling from the top of the table as we did.
[quote author=ibromurph link=topic=38065.msg1019557#msg1019557 date=1261484692]
[quote author=SaintGeorge67 link=topic=38065.msg1019530#msg1019530 date=1261482656]
If Mourinho came and won the league he could play 8-1-1, winning 1-0 via a penalty each time as far as I'm concerned.
[/quote]
This whole idea that people don't care what type of football we play as long as we win is great and all, but I think the evidence has shown that you HAVE to play good, attacking football to win the league.
United have always done so, Arsenal when they won it did so, Blackburn had "SoS" upfront banging in the goals when they won it.. and Chelsea blew away teams with Duff, Joe Cole and Robben on the wings when they won it.
There's is some merit in what khl is saying about trying something different. If we get a defensive manager we won't win the title (almost certainly). We'll float safely from 2nd to 6th as we have done under Rafa. An attacking manager like Laudrup or Rijkaard could possibly take us top, but they could also take us further down.. from 1st to 10th. But in this scenario, there's actually a chance of winning it.
Now, obviously the case of Mourinho arguably contradicts what I said above. He really is a *special* case, in that he's a defensive manager who won the title with some attacking football. How? Well, lets be honest, he had almost a quarter of a billion to spend on the EXACT players he wanted that would suit his defensive style but still provide enough attacking potential to win the league. Players like Drogba and Essien cost nigh-on 60m, and are both PERFECT players for Mourinho's system in both a defensive and attacking capacity. If we had all the money in the world, then Jose would easily be the best man for the job. But we don't, and KHL's concerns over Mourinho's style of play (given our lack of funds to fully support him getting the right players) is fair enough.
The thing, I think, KHL really underestimates about Mourinho is his winner's mentality and infectious personality. Love his antics or hate them, Jose gets his players playing with confidence and in a state of mind where they are willing to die for him and his cause. That sort of man-management is sorely lacking in Rafa and I think it's vital for any team pushing for titles.
[/quote]
You're probably right mate, I am.
I really dislike the guy though, that's my kind of sorry excuse I reckon.
[/quote]
Mourinho is the only defensive manager I would accept happily as Liverpool manager. His antics are always geared towards getting his team a competitive advantage in much the same way Fergie does.
The way he plays the media, well, I really doubt Jose would have done a "fact-gate" last year and have us stumbling from the top of the table as we did.
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