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Next Liverpool Manager ? Odds.

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[quote author=the_khl link=topic=38065.msg1019558#msg1019558 date=1261484821]
Mircea Lucescu won the UEFA Cup with Shaktar. Didier Deschamps came second in the Champions League with AS Monaco that very year Mourinho won it with Porto.

Would appointing those not be a gamble?
[/quote]

Yes, it would. Clearly Mourhino is a better manager than those two because of what he has gone on to acheive since he left Porto. Chelsea weren't that much of a defensive team under Mourhino KHL. Yes, they defended well and conceeded very little, but that is what champions do. Also, when they had Duff and Robben on the wings they regularly destroyed teams.

They scored 72 in 04/05, only Arsenal better that with 87. In 05/06 they scored 72 again, only United could equal that.
 
[quote author=Richey link=topic=38065.msg1019561#msg1019561 date=1261485107]
The argument about how anyone could win the title at Chelsea is an extremely flawed one. How many of the other managers that they have had have won it?
[/quote]

True. But then, how many 'decent' managers have they had since Jose?

Avram Grant (who almost won a treble)? Scolari?

With Chelsea's players, any decent manager worth his salts will there or thereabouts with them. Jose, a bit like Fergie does being a top manager, probably got them those extra couple points in big games that had them win those 2 titles.

As i said, Jose is a special case, in that he won his 1st 2 titles with primarily Ranieri's attacking signings being the main contributors (Lampard, Gudjohnsen, Duff, Robben, Joe Cole). Drogba wasn't *so* great in first couple of seasons. Jose simply added defensive stability in the likes of Carvalho and Tiago.
When he actually started trying to buy his own attacking players in SWP, Kalou, Kezman Chelsea stopped winning the title. But again, it's hard to know whether that was due to his poor signings or the fact there was a lot of in-fighting after Ballack and Sheva were seemingly forced upon him.

To surmise, I like Jose, but he's a defensive manager and there's no guarantee (without bottomless money) that he'd win us a title. A better manager than Rafa though (imo).
 
[quote author=Stu link=topic=38065.msg1019565#msg1019565 date=1261485716]
[quote author=the_khl link=topic=38065.msg1019558#msg1019558 date=1261484821]
Mircea Lucescu won the UEFA Cup with Shaktar. Didier Deschamps came second in the Champions League with AS Monaco that very year Mourinho won it with Porto.

Would appointing those not be a gamble?
[/quote]

Yes, it would. Clearly Mourhino is a better manager than those two because of what he has gone on to acheive since he left Porto. Chelsea weren't that much of a defensive team under Mourhino KHL. Yes, they defended well and conceeded very little, but that is what champions do. Also, when they had Duff and Robben on the wings they regularly destroyed teams.

They scored 72 in 04/05, only Arsenal better that with 87. In 05/06 they scored 72 again, only United could equal that.
[/quote]
Nothing is black and white mate I know.

But Mourinho's approach - as it once again has been proved at Inter - is first and foremost defensive-minded.

Their approach at Camp Neu a few weeks back made me cringe. One striker and ten defenders - played as defenders mind, and they hardly got a sniff throughout the game.

I don't want that kind of manager to Liverpool. I simply don't.
 
To be fair I don't think many managers in world football would tell their teams to go out and attack fiercely at Nou Camp.
 
[quote author=Doped White Mouse link=topic=38065.msg1019579#msg1019579 date=1261487302]
To be fair I don't think many managers in world football would tell their teams to go out and attack fiercely at Nou Camp.
[/quote]

To be fair to Rafa, we dominated them at the Nou Camp and won 2-1 with goals from Riise and Bellamy (remember that?). But then we already know that, in a one-off European tie, Rafa is probably the best manager in the world. What we want is a manager who can motivate his players to grind out results week after week in the league. On that basis, Mourinho *has* to be our first choice. (Well, Capello would be my first choice, but he clearly ain't gonna come this season, if ever.)
 
Khl would prefer Laudrup to Mourinho as Liverpool manager
That's just about fucking says it all about the value of his opinion, really
 
[quote author=Doped White Mouse link=topic=38065.msg1019579#msg1019579 date=1261487302]
To be fair I don't think many managers in world football would tell their teams to go out and attack fiercely at Nou Camp.
[/quote]
Obviously.

There's a way in between though.

Inter did not want to play football at all they only wanted to hold on to a goalless draw and Barca completely owned them throughout, making quite the fool out of Mourinho and his tactics really. Most Liverpool fans would have exploded having to witness that kind of approach and football.

A game like that should at least tell Mourinho's fans that he's not as flawless as they would like him to be. He really struggles to make anything from games where his team is up against good to great competition.

I can't see he him turn our current squad plus a few additions into a title-winning team. I really can't.
 
[quote author=Brendan link=topic=38065.msg1019461#msg1019461 date=1261477311]
Mourinho please

But it's very unlikely
[/quote]

Would be the best xmas present ever!
 
[quote author=the_khl link=topic=38065.msg1019589#msg1019589 date=1261489462]
[quote author=Doped White Mouse link=topic=38065.msg1019579#msg1019579 date=1261487302]
To be fair I don't think many managers in world football would tell their teams to go out and attack fiercely at Nou Camp.
[/quote]
Obviously.

There's a way in between though.

Inter did not want to play football at all they only wanted to hold on to a goalless draw and Barca completely owned them throughout, making quite the fool out of Mourinho and his tactics really. Most Liverpool fans would have exploded having to witness that kind of approach and football.

A game like that should at least tell Mourinho's fans that he's not as flawless as they would like him to be. He really struggles to make anything from games where his team is up against good to great competition.

I can't see he him turn our current squad plus a few additions into a title-winning team. I really can't.


[/quote]

I can. It's pretty much what he did at Porto, and I don't think the gap in quality between our squad and those currently above us in the league is as wide as our current form suggests anyway.

What you said above about Deschamps and Lucescu in Europe is true as far as it goes, but misses the most important point. Neither of them has a CL winner's medal, not as a manager anyway.
 
[quote author=Brendan link=topic=38065.msg1019588#msg1019588 date=1261489237]
Khl would prefer Laudrup to Mourinho as Liverpool manager
That's just about fucking says it all about the value of his opinion, really
[/quote]

When Wenger came to Arsenal from mighty Strasbourg I'll bet my bottom dollar that you haven't even heard of him in the slightest? He must've been CWAP eh?

Apart from Mourinho's Champions League trophy with Porto I bet you didn't know whether he was a Jose or Miguel Mourinho either?

Just because you don't know anything about manager X or Y doesn't automatically indicate they are crap does it?

It's a safe bet to point at Mourinho I can see that. He knows the League, the players a bit too probably and he's even won the League. It's not necessarily the RIGHT bet mind.

I'd love us to go for someone more adventurous, attacking-minded and 'optimistic' in their overall approach to the game. Laudrup is one of the biggest managerial talents around hence I've mentioned him, and he's quite the attacking-minded one too. There are others outthere as well who'd tick those boxes.

I'd probably take an upcoming manager like Laudrup (with Dalglish and Carra as sidekicks perhaps) than Mourinho at this stage. If we need a change we can just as well make sure changes is made.
 
Out of that list I could live with Jose in for Rafa personally.

Jose won't come though, because we have no money and two cunts for owners.
 
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=38065.msg1019592#msg1019592 date=1261489909]
[quote author=the_khl link=topic=38065.msg1019589#msg1019589 date=1261489462]
[quote author=Doped White Mouse link=topic=38065.msg1019579#msg1019579 date=1261487302]
To be fair I don't think many managers in world football would tell their teams to go out and attack fiercely at Nou Camp.
[/quote]
Obviously.

There's a way in between though.

Inter did not want to play football at all they only wanted to hold on to a goalless draw and Barca completely owned them throughout, making quite the fool out of Mourinho and his tactics really. Most Liverpool fans would have exploded having to witness that kind of approach and football.

A game like that should at least tell Mourinho's fans that he's not as flawless as they would like him to be. He really struggles to make anything from games where his team is up against good to great competition.

I can't see he him turn our current squad plus a few additions into a title-winning team. I really can't.


[/quote]

I can.It's pretty much what he did at Porto, and I don't think the gap in quality between our squad and those currently above us in the league is as wide as our current form suggests anyway.

What you said above about Deschamps and Lucescu in Europe is true as far as it goes, but misses the most important point. Neither of them has a CL winner's medal, not as a manager anyway.[/quote]

True, I don't think the gap is that big either but as Mourinho would make pretty much the same use of it in terms of style and play it'll look pretty much the same I'm affraid.

*Deschamp's almost got his medal against Mourinho with a equally 'minor' team mind. Could've easily been Didier 1 Mourinho 0.
 
[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=38065.msg1019595#msg1019595 date=1261490136]
Out of that list I could live with Jose in for Rafa personally.

Jose won't come though, because we have no money and two cunts for owners.
[/quote]

You reckon Mourinho would only come if he was to 1) take over a far superior squad like at Inter or 2) get a billion dollars in a transfer-kitty?

Makes sense to me.
 
[quote author=the_khl link=topic=38065.msg1019593#msg1019593 date=1261489966]


When Wenger came to Arsenal from mighty Strasbourg I'll bet my bottom dollar that you haven't even heard of him in the slightest? He must've been CWAP eh?

Apart from Mourinho's Champions League trophy with Porto I bet you didn't know whether he was a Jose or Miguel Mourinho either?

Just because you don't know anything about manager X or Y doesn't automatically indicate they are crap does it?

It's a safe bet to point at Mourinho I can see that. He knows the League, the players a bit too probably and he's even won the League. It's not necessarily the RIGHT bet mind.

I'd love us to go for someone more adventurous, attacking-minded and 'optimistic' in their overall approach to the game. Laudrup is one of the biggest managerial talents around hence I've mentioned him, and he's quite the attacking-minded one too. There are others outthere as well who'd tick those boxes.

I'd probably take an upcoming manager like Laudrup (with Dalglish and Carra as sidekicks perhaps) than Mourinho at this stage. If we need a change we can just as well make sure changes is made.
[/quote]

Wenger never managed Strasbourg. He was managing in Japan before Arsenal and at Monaco before that, where he was pretty successful I believe.

And the fact that a manager without much pedigree as a player has worked his way into contention for a top job is a decent indication that he is worth at least considering.

Managers who are former players tend to get more of a headstart because they have good reputations as players. Doesn't mean they are any good.

I am still waiting to hear what credentials Laudrup has shown that make him in any way suitable to be our manager. Has he done anything particularly astounding at any of the clubs he has managed?
 
khl, I can see what Rafa4 and you are getting at regarding the likelihood or otherwise of Mourinho coming here, but I'm not so sure. If we're in the market for a new manager next summer, IMO (a) he'd absolutely lap up the challenge of getting this club back to the top and (b) he's vain enough to believe in his ability to do it despite those off-the field problems to which Rafa4 rightly refers. I also suspect he'd LOVE the chance to clear up a mess which his nemesis Rafa Benitez unfortunately played some part in creating.
 
Lippi would still be my first choice although I can see why people are hung up on Mourinho. We were only a few points away last year and maybe he could make the difference. The problem now is next season is going to be a different ball game entirely.

All of the teams at the top (United, Chelsea, Citeh, Arsenal and, hopefully and I really mean hopefully, us) will need to be blowing away the teams in the lower half of the league whilst doing well against each other. Similar to this season I think all will be dropping points against each other and the likes of Villa & Spurs.

What we need is a manager who can set up the team, on the limited budget we know he will have, to handle both aspects. I know Rafa can handle the top teams brilliantly, but he has also shown a quite pathetic lack of ambition when playing teams we should have no trouble beating.
 
[quote author=the_khl link=topic=38065.msg1019599#msg1019599 date=1261490700]
[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=38065.msg1019595#msg1019595 date=1261490136]
Out of that list I could live with Jose in for Rafa personally.

Jose won't come though, because we have no money and two cunts for owners.
[/quote]

You reckon Mourinho would only come if he was to 1) take over a far superior squad like at Inter or 2) get a billion dollars in a transfer-kitty?

Makes sense to me.
[/quote]

Pretty much (the billion $$ thing is over egging it, if he had a transfer kitty of around £60m that should be easily enough).

I think he'd love the job given the right circumstances mate, but the fact is we don't have a pot to piss in at the moment. Plus he fell out with Roman and he gave him all of the resources that any manager could wish for, imagine what he'd make of dumb & dumber?
 
Poor the khl, another fucking car-crash of a thread filled with his unique mixture of vapid, ill-informed, laughably biased and often plain incorrect views
 
Oh dear, Judge 'Tevez will sign for Liverpool' Jules with his kiss of doom WILL NEVER HAPPEN predictions

That's my mind made up; no chance
 
[quote author=Brendan link=topic=38065.msg1019588#msg1019588 date=1261489237]
Khl would prefer Laudrup to Mourinho as Liverpool manager
That's just about fucking says it all about the value of his opinion, really
[/quote]

Ha ha. It's nuts. Bar hating Jose there should be no manager anyone would want ahead of him.

End of.
 
[quote author=Richey link=topic=38065.msg1019600#msg1019600 date=1261491051]
[quote author=the_khl link=topic=38065.msg1019593#msg1019593 date=1261489966]


When Wenger came to Arsenal from mighty Strasbourg I'll bet my bottom dollar that you haven't even heard of him in the slightest? He must've been CWAP eh?

Apart from Mourinho's Champions League trophy with Porto I bet you didn't know whether he was a Jose or Miguel Mourinho either?

Just because you don't know anything about manager X or Y doesn't automatically indicate they are crap does it?

It's a safe bet to point at Mourinho I can see that. He knows the League, the players a bit too probably and he's even won the League. It's not necessarily the RIGHT bet mind.

I'd love us to go for someone more adventurous, attacking-minded and 'optimistic' in their overall approach to the game. Laudrup is one of the biggest managerial talents around hence I've mentioned him, and he's quite the attacking-minded one too. There are others outthere as well who'd tick those boxes.

I'd probably take an upcoming manager like Laudrup (with Dalglish and Carra as sidekicks perhaps) than Mourinho at this stage. If we need a change we can just as well make sure changes is made.
[/quote]

Wenger never managed Strasbourg. He was managing in Japan before Arsenal and at Monaco before that, where he was pretty successful I believe.

And the fact that a manager without much pedigree as a player has worked his way into contention for a top job is a decent indication that he is worth at least considering.

Managers who are former players tend to get more of a headstart because they have good reputations as players. Doesn't mean they are any good.

I am still waiting to hear what credentials Laudrup has shown that make him in any way suitable to be our manager. Has he done anything particularly astounding at any of the clubs he has managed?


[/quote]
I'm getting tired. SOZ. Monaco then. It was still a risk wasn't it to appoint a French manager directly from Japan?

Laudrup hasn't done that much yet. It would be quite the risk and one we are not going to take anyways.

He took the small Madrid-club Getafe to the Copa del Rey final and the UEFA Cup Quaters - where they almost knocked out Bayern if it wasn't for some shocking goalkeeping deep into extra time - in his first Season. He managed to beat Real a couple of times too.

Won the Danish league with Brondby and got fired after a short spell in Russia at Spartak Moscow.

Rejected a job offer from Atletico recently and is apparently shortlisted by both Barca and Real.
 
[quote author=Dreambeliever link=topic=38065.msg1019615#msg1019615 date=1261491865]
[quote author=Brendan link=topic=38065.msg1019588#msg1019588 date=1261489237]
Khl would prefer Laudrup to Mourinho as Liverpool manager
That's just about fucking says it all about the value of his opinion, really
[/quote]

Ha ha. It's nuts. Bar hating Jose there should be no manager anyone would want ahead of him.

End of.

[/quote]

Capello maybe? Not everyone wants to suck Jose off.

P.S Im sick of reading about that cunt Laudrup.
 
[quote author=the_khl link=topic=38065.msg1019560#msg1019560 date=1261485097]
[quote author=Avmenon link=topic=38065.msg1019528#msg1019528 date=1261482608]
KHL, the point is that no one cares about interesting.

We want to win the title.

There are only 2 names on that list who've won it.
One of them actually wont it for us 19 years ago; I don't think going back to that name is a good idea.

That just leaves the one name.
[/quote]
You are aware that Mourinho nor Wenger to mention a few hadn't won it either when they got appointed, right?

Right.
[/quote]

Arsene Wenger

Managerial Honours

Monaco
Winner
Ligue 1 (1): 1987–88
Coupe de France (1): 1990–91
Runner-up
UEFA Cup Winners' Cup (1): 1991–92
Ligue 1 (3): 1990–91 1991–92 1992–93
Nagoya Grampus
Winner
Emperor's Cup (1): 1996
J-League Super Cup (1): 1996
Runner-up
J. League (1): 1996

Jose Mourinho

Managerial honours

Futebol Clube do Porto
Portuguese Liga: 2002-03, 2003-04
Taça de Portugal: 2002-03
SuperCup Cândido de Oliveira: 2003
UEFA Champions League: 2004
UEFA Cup: 2003

Kjeldsen Butter Cookie

Managerial Honours:

Do you want to do it, or should I?
 
[quote author=Brendan link=topic=38065.msg1019611#msg1019611 date=1261491758]
Oh dear, Judge 'Tevez will sign for Liverpool' Jules with his kiss of doom WILL NEVER HAPPEN predictions

That's my mind made up; no chance
[/quote]

I know we both rate Mourinho, so you'll be encouraged by the reminder that I haven't at any time predicted Mourinho will come to LFC, but simply said I think he'd be interested. The same applied to Tevez actually (I did add that I thought Rafa would be interested too), but what the heck - why let the facts get in the way of some good knockabout fun? 8)
 
[quote author=the_khl link=topic=38065.msg1019617#msg1019617 date=1261491968]

I'm getting tired. SOZ. Monaco then. It was still a risk wasn't it to appoint a French manager directly from Japan?

Laudrup hasn't done that much yet. It would be quite the risk and one we are not going to take anyways.

He took the small Madrid-club Getafe to the Copa del Rey final and the UEFA Cup Quaters - where they almost knocked out Bayern if it wasn't for some shocking goalkeeping deep into extra time - in his first Season. He managed to beat Real a couple of times too.

Won the Danish league with Brondby and got fired after a short spell in Russia at Spartak Moscow.

Rejected a job offer from Atletico recently and is apparently shortlisted by both Barca and Real.
[/quote]

Monaco and Strasbourg are not the same thing. Monaco were a big side at the time (when the French league was strong) with some good players.

As for Laudrup, winning the Danish League with Brondby doesn't really do it for me to be honest. And neither does his one season at Getafe, where I believe they finished 14th.
 
[quote author=Avmenon link=topic=38065.msg1019621#msg1019621 date=1261492544]
[quote author=the_khl link=topic=38065.msg1019560#msg1019560 date=1261485097]
[quote author=Avmenon link=topic=38065.msg1019528#msg1019528 date=1261482608]
KHL, the point is that no one cares about interesting.

We want to win the title.

There are only 2 names on that list who've won it.
One of them actually wont it for us 19 years ago; I don't think going back to that name is a good idea.

That just leaves the one name.
[/quote]
You are aware that Mourinho nor Wenger to mention a few hadn't won it either when they got appointed, right?

Right.
[/quote]

Arsene Wenger

Managerial Honours

Monaco
Winner
Ligue 1 (1): 1987–88
Coupe de France (1): 1990–91
Runner-up
UEFA Cup Winners' Cup (1): 1991–92
Ligue 1 (3): 1990–91 1991–92 1992–93
Nagoya Grampus
Winner
Emperor's Cup (1): 1996
J-League Super Cup (1): 1996
Runner-up
J. League (1): 1996

Jose Mourinho

Managerial honours

Futebol Clube do Porto
Portuguese Liga: 2002-03, 2003-04
Taça de Portugal: 2002-03
SuperCup Cândido de Oliveira: 2003
UEFA Champions League: 2004
UEFA Cup: 2003

Kjeldsen Butter Cookie

Managerial Honours:

Do you want to do it, or should I?
[/quote]

In KHL's defence I think he meant that neither of them had won the Premier League title when they got appointed.

To compare two managers who have been in the business for a longer time to a relatively young one is also a bit unfair. Of course they have already won some titles whereas Laudrup hasn't.

That doesn't mean I'd prefer Laudrup over Mourinho though.
 
[quote author=Avmenon link=topic=38065.msg1019626#msg1019626 date=1261492971]
Wenger played for Strasbourg, that's why KHL mixed it up with Monaco.
[/quote]

Fair enough but the argument was that Wenger came from managing a small team in France and was a complete unknown. Monaco were one of the strongest teams in what at the time was a decent league, and had a number of internationals. Strasbourg I believe were not.

The only reason anyone has heard of Laudrup is because he was a great player. He is not a great manager.
 
[quote author=Richey link=topic=38065.msg1019624#msg1019624 date=1261492715]
[quote author=the_khl link=topic=38065.msg1019617#msg1019617 date=1261491968]

I'm getting tired. SOZ. Monaco then. It was still a risk wasn't it to appoint a French manager directly from Japan?

Laudrup hasn't done that much yet. It would be quite the risk and one we are not going to take anyways.

He took the small Madrid-club Getafe to the Copa del Rey final and the UEFA Cup Quaters - where they almost knocked out Bayern if it wasn't for some shocking goalkeeping deep into extra time - in his first Season. He managed to beat Real a couple of times too.

Won the Danish league with Brondby and got fired after a short spell in Russia at Spartak Moscow.

Rejected a job offer from Atletico recently and is apparently shortlisted by both Barca and Real.
[/quote]

Monaco and Strasbourg are not the same thing. Monaco were a big side at the time (when the French league was strong) with some good players.

As for Laudrup, winning the Danish League with Brondby doesn't really do it for me to be honest. And neither does his one season at Getafe, where I believe they finished 14th.
[/quote]
There's nothing to suggest that Laudrup has done enough to become our manager at this point. He will become a manager at a big club one day I'm sure, but most likely not Liverpool anyways.

My point isn't about anyone in particular, I just want a manager who isn't to similiar to Rafa that's all. And then I mentioned a few of the upcoming European managers there is that I know about who's rather attacking-minded in their approach.
 
If we cant get Capello or Mourinho, I'd say Rijkard would be my favorite option.
Id take Martin O'Neill before Laudrup any time.
 
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